Would you fly without a carseat? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
View Poll Results: Would you fly without a carseat?
Yes 190 71.16%
No 65 24.34%
Depending on length of flight 12 4.49%
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#91 of 112 Old 08-08-2006, 03:27 AM
 
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Wow, I have to say, I am surprised that the majority would fly without a carseat. I didn't read the entire thread, but we've flown a lot with both kids. Only once did we not have one of our kids in a car seat. I was worried the entire time, and the trip was miserable.

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#92 of 112 Old 08-08-2006, 12:51 PM
 
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Just flew last week from Little Rock to Dallas without a car seat. Had DS on our lap the whole time and felt perfectly safe. During turbulence, which we had pretty badly on the way there, I held him a little tighter with both arms. We checked our Britax.

American airlines were pretty child UNfriendly. They didn't have those huge plastic bags to cover the car seats, the airline attendees were rude, and the flights were jam-packed. Furthermore, our Britax was slightly damaged on the very bottom because of being thrown around. I wonder if they were playing football with it on the tarmac?
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#93 of 112 Old 08-08-2006, 03:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal
Just flew last week from Little Rock to Dallas without a car seat. Had DS on our lap the whole time and felt perfectly safe. During turbulence, which we had pretty badly on the way there, I held him a little tighter with both arms. We checked our Britax.

American airlines were pretty child UNfriendly. They didn't have those huge plastic bags to cover the car seats, the airline attendees were rude, and the flights were jam-packed. Furthermore, our Britax was slightly damaged on the very bottom because of being thrown around. I wonder if they were playing football with it on the tarmac?
It was American airlines in dallas that lost my luggage and my cars eat and they were awful through otu the whole thing.:

Mom to Iris and Henry
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#94 of 112 Old 08-08-2006, 03:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dynamohumm6
If the FAA felt it was unsafe, the FAA would make it law. I doubt the airlines would protest, as they would be making more money. Knowing the financial state that the airlines are all in these days, I'm sure that they would jump at the chance to MAKE it law if any study ever indicated the slightest hint that lap-babies were in danger in any situation. Given that the government feels like the general population is too stupid to take care of themselves and needs to regulate everything under the sun, if there's no law about carseats in planes, it's probably considered pretty safe.

Not that a car seat is going to do much good if your plane is plummeting 36,000 feet anyway.
Someone may have pointed this out already. There was a news article awhile back--the FAA (or someone) would like to mandate carseats in planes, but feel that the added expense would keep parents from flying. They'd drive instead. And statistically, flying is safer than driving.

We've done both with dd. Long flight overseas--her own seat and carseat. Shorter flights--in arms. Even though she won't be two until December, in the fall I have a business trip, and will probably spring for a seat for her. She's comfortable in the carseat--it's familiar--and despite the hassle of schlepping the carseat, having the additional room for all of us and the added safety for her will be a good thing.

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#95 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 12:46 AM
 
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The airlines I've used don't allow it after age 2. That said, I flew with DD when she was 15 months old WITHOUT a carseat, and will never do that again with that age -- kicking, screaming, angry mess. When she's in her carseat she's pretty calm comparatively.

When she was little, I had to have her bucket carseat with us anyway, and befriended a flight attendant who found us an extra empty seat to put her in which was great (no second-seat charge).

Dr-Mom and SAHD extraordinnaire. DD1 (5), DD2 (3), MMC 04/10.
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#96 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 01:06 AM
 
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I don't believe flying on an airplane poses the same threats as riding in a car. I am pretty sure there is also a "child under 2 sits on parents lap, child over 2 requires thier own seat" rule. Seeing my child is over 2 he would have to sit in his own seat. If it was necessary for me to bring my car seat for the trip due to alot of car traveling upon destination, then i would most definately concider using it while on the plane instead of having it placed in cargo. After all my son tends to sit still better when he is strapped in his carseat and take the ride alot easier/without fuss.
If i had no other reason to bring a carseat i wouldn't, as it would be an inconvience for me to have to drag it around on my trip.
I would place my son in his own seat beside me with the restraint in place and tightened.
Planes don't have sudden stops like a car. So other than high turbulance, or the plane over turning, the child is not going to fall out of the seat.
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#97 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 02:49 AM
 
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#98 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 02:50 AM
 
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Here is a link to a related thread about car seats and purchasing seats for babies under 2.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=397097
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#99 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 02:52 AM
 
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Lap babies (under 2) do fly for free on domestic flights, but for me the price isn't worth the risk of my baby's life. Babies flying without a car seat are at risk of serious injury during turbulence or emergency landings. Did you know that in the instance of an emergency landing that a flight attendant will instruct you to put your baby on the floor at your feet? Yes, that is what you are required to do, as there is no possible way you can hold onto your child and he could become airborne and hurt someone else. Not to mention what would happen to him, of course. You could also crush him between you and the seat back in front of you. Flight attendants are required to strap down coffee pots, but babies are free to fly around the cabin in turbulence or emergency landings? (much more common than crashes, and there are often collisions on runways).

Most airlines will sell you a half price seat for an infant under two, and you can bring your car seat because more than likely you will need it where you are going. A car seat can be put on a stroller, and the stroller checked at the gate. Babies are usually happier in a car seat anyway, mine was, he didn't beg to explore really, because he knows when he is in his car seat he doesn't get out until the ride is over. Besides, if you baby falls asleep on your lap and you need to use the bathroom, what then?

Think about it, you have to put your carry on under the seat or up in the storage above you, because why? Because in an emergency it will go flying, I wouldn't want to even think of that happening to a child. Turbulence can occur without warning.

With all the women on this board talking about car seats all the time and offering great help there, why would so many not use one when on an airplane? Do we use car seats because its the law? Or becaues its better for our children? Both the FAA, the NTSB, the AAP and National Association of Flight attendants all say say children under 2 should be put in child restraint seats during flights agreeing its MUCH safer for them, but just because the FAA doesn't require us to, we put them at risk? Babies have died as a direct result of not having their own seat. The FAA isn't even following its own policy recommendations, and our children suffer because of it.
'
CBS video and article on airplane Child restraints

The flight attendant in the CBS video (its a good video) is a suriviving flight attendant from the Sioux city crash, where an infant died after being wrenched from his mother's arms.

Article written by mom who has been there, on child safety restraints on airplanes


The information is out there, lets start following their advice and keep our babies safe. Will it cost extra money? Sure, but our children are priceless right?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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#100 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 02:54 AM
 
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It is obvious from my own witnessing at airports that most people do not put their under 2 yo's in car seats, though thankfully its getting to be more common. Even the FAA wants you to, but they don't change the rule, which bugs me. Take a look at their own stuff on this,

FAA-- Turbulence happens

So yes, I want to see babies be safe on planes, if my passion offends you, please just read the links and think about it.
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#101 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 02:55 AM
 
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Well, lets start with this, so only a small number of babies are killed because they are not restrained on airplanes? And how many are injured every year? Even if its a small number, and your chances are low, what IF it is YOUR baby? It's someone's baby right?

You wear your seatbelt while on a plane right? But no seatbelt for your kid? I just don't get it. Look at the baby injured on the plane crash in Montreal just recently. Emergency landings happen all the time. Plane crashes might not be all that common, and survivability might not be all that high, but hard landings and turbulence happen all the time. As for how often does severe turbulence happen, and how bad is it? It's quite common, and I have been on some flights with very hard turbulence, I could not imagine having to deal with that and worry about the safety of my child and not be able to do anything.

And frankly in an emergency landing, your baby is probably safer on the floor at your feet, than in your arms. It is the rule because a baby in arms could be wrenched out of your arms and hit another passenger and seriously injuring BOTH.

As for restraints, I said it once, I will say it again, your child can be made a human airbag by those things.
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#102 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 02:56 AM
 
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quoting Dallaschildren from the previous mentioned post-
Quote:
Some of the PP's inquired as to data on injuries or deaths.
The FAA launched a national campaign "Turbulence happens" in Dec. 1996. During 1981 to Nov 1996, there were 252 reports of turbulence affecting major air carriers and 863 passengers received minor injuries, 63 received serious injuries and 2 passengers died. Of the 63 passengers who received serious injuries, 61 were not wearing their safety belts.
That is the latest data released. It does not breakdown those injured into age ranges though (as in infants, children, adults). But it stands to reason that since crash forces experienced by humans in an automobile are the same, so would the forces experienced in an aircraft. Is using a CSS always practical whether in an auto or airplane? No. But I absolutely recommend it, as does the FAA and the AAP. AAP has a policy "Restraint Use on Aircraft" at www.aap.org for your reference. Go to "car safety seats" and then click on "restraint use on aircraft" for the info.
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#103 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 03:05 AM
 
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Now, after all the links and arguments, my own personal story. Lugging a car seat in an airport isn't a piece of cake, but I have never found it that hard. I strapped it to my stroller, had my kid either in it, my sling or holding my hand (depending on his age, he has flown a bit). I gate checked the stroller and then installed the car seat, again, not a picnic but it definitely made the flights easier. He is comfortable in his car seat and understood that he wasn't supposed to get out of it. He did of course, for short periods of time, but I am glad I had that seat. I have flown in severe turbulence and it is NO picnic. My child is infinitely safer strapped in a car seat on a plane. The chances of something happening is very slim, but if something DID happen, I could never forgive myself for not paying the half price for a seat for my under 2 yo, or not having a car seat that could protect him from harm in case of turbulence or some kind of emergency. I honestly do not understand how other parents are okay with taking that small risk, they do` and that is their right (to some degree, I would be pretty mad at someone who harmed me or my family because their child ended up hitting them because they weren't strapped in). But I just don't understand it. Most of the time I need that car seat on the other end of the flight, rental car seats are usually crap, don't come with installation booklets and who knows how old they are, or how they have been treated? I know, I have had it happen to me. I was given a bucket car seat for my 1.5 yo, then a backless booster, then a very old seat (I had left his seat behind in the hurry to catch a train, no flight on that trip).
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#104 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 10:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joannarachel
You read that right...airlines are more concerned about getting your money than keeping your children safe.
That's our responsibility.
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#105 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 10:55 AM
 
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I flew several times when ds was an infant, with him in my arms. Even if I had purchased another seat, he would have insisted being in arms. He's that kind of baby. And I wouldn't have left him restrained, screaming.

Now that we would have to buy him his own seat, I will use the carseat. But I will not insist he stay in it for the whole flight.
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#106 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 02:52 PM
 
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Are they banning or allowing carseats on plane flying from Heathrow? I know they are making it exceptionally difficult to allow anything on planes there, and that which you must carry-on is in clear, plastic bags. Are carseats an exception?
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#107 of 112 Old 08-13-2006, 03:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal

You wear your seatbelt while on a plane right? But no seatbelt for your kid? .
He does have a seatbelt on, the lap belt. We flew a week ago. I brought the carseat and I was the only one on the plane with a carseat, inspite of the high number of kids/babies on the plane. I didn't feel it was safely installed onthe plane. The car seat wouldn't get tight enough and no one would help me, plus the buckle of the seat belt was in ds's back (under the cushion of the back of the carseat cushion). On the second leg of our trip we stashed it with the strollers last minute before boarding and used the lap belt. I WOULD NOT check it all the way through because I think someone would break or crack it, plus, the airline lost our luggage for 24 hours so we would have been without a carseat had we checked it.

I was comfortable having ds in the lapbelt (he just turned 3). I read that 40,000 people die a year in cars and 7 in commercial airlines. I think it's more dangerous to walk to the store.
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#108 of 112 Old 08-15-2006, 01:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxswood
Bizarrely the JAA (European equivalent of FAA) will not allow children under two to ride in carseats when the seatbelt sign is illuminated, they must be in their parents lap with a seperate seatbelt that attaches to the parents belt.
Blows my mind how the JAA and FAA can have such different recommendations but they do. Over 2 years they can ride in an approved airline seat in their own seat but they say that being in an adult seatbelt is just as safe from two years and up. Very odd.
haven't read pages 5 and 6 of this thread, but i was going to mention this - we've flown a good deal with DS domestically in the US bringing the carseat onboard when there was a seat free next to us (usually not ). I was always careful to put him in it during takeoff and whenever the pilot announced turbulence... but when we went to Iceland and Germany the attendants snapped at me for putting him in the seat during take-off - and made me take him out and hold him.

domestically - i have been told to take him out of the sling, but never been told to stop bf'ing him. strangely he doesn't usually seem to need bf'ing during takeoff or landing. the explanation for the sling is that in the case of impact they need to be facing forward so their body will bend in the direction it's most flexible to bend in rather than having their backs cracked backwards. doesn't explain why forward facing in the sling isn't ok, or why nursing is... but that's what they told me...

editing to add now that i've read pages 5 &6 - we weren't given any kind of pillow or strap... just told we had to hold him in our laps.

Rosemary & Gary :
James 12/04 & Cecelia 4/07
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#109 of 112 Old 08-15-2006, 02:08 AM
 
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Haven't read the whole thread (though I'm sure it's been debated). I would make my child ride in a carseat if for no other reason than he would drive me nuts running up and down the aisles and distrub everyone else

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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#110 of 112 Old 08-15-2006, 12:28 PM
 
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I guess I'm one of the few dissenting opinions. We rarely fly, preferring to use Amtrak, but we take a carseat with us on the plane. There is a group trying to get the law changed that requires infants to be in their own seats (with a carseat of course). Some airline attendants are really advocating for it. If there is a crash, or even turbalence, it's easy for a child to fly out of their parents hands and be killed. And of course, laying on the floor unrestrained during a crash landing is a disaster waiting to happen. Young children have been killed when they most likely would have survived a crash landing or other kind of problem. I just don't want to take the chance.
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#111 of 112 Old 08-15-2006, 03:45 PM
 
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My ds has flown more than 26 flights in his short 22 month old life! A good mix of domestic & international - the longest was 11.5 hours. We have only brought a car seat a handful of times, usually when we knew we needed it at the other end, and didn't want to rent one along with the car. Only twice (when I brought it along) was I permitted to use it - as the flight wasn't full. I have never paid for a seat for him. On international flights, I'm already paying a fortune just to have him in my lap. We leave Thursday, and his ticket was almost $500 USD, and he is in my lap the entire time!!!

International airlines have ALL required me to strap him to my lapbelt with the child attachment thingy (which is manufactured in the US - too funny!). Domestic carriers - usually Delta for me - could care less if he is strapped.

We've never hit serious turbulence - just some minor stuff and he was fine for it. When he was small, I did the same Maya wrap turns into a blanket trick that several PP's have mentioned. It really all boils down to risk - what you are willing to expose your child to, what your comfort levels are, etc. There will always be someone on each end of the safety spectrum, I like to think we sit in the middle somewhere...
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#112 of 112 Old 08-15-2006, 04:00 PM
 
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I did once dd was over a year.

As for your friend, kids over 2 have to have their own seat.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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