At what age did you DC have pitch when singing? - Mothering Forums

 
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#1 of 29 Old 01-27-2008, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My DD is 29 mos. and sings in a nearly monotone fashion. I am a classically trained Soprano, and so I worry a little that she is not going to be able to sing! At what age did your DC begin to match pitch when singing?
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#2 of 29 Old 01-27-2008, 06:46 PM
 
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Our ds has just started to almost hit notes when he sings. I just noticed this within the last month. He used to sing louder or softer if notes were high or low but now I can hear him searching for the pitch. It's funny you posted this since I had just noticed it myself and was thinking about how neat it was. It's still kind of random... BTW, he turned two in december.

I'm sure every child is different and our ds is by no means singing on key, but he's trying... If singing is in your genes, I bet she'll be singing soon!
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#3 of 29 Old 01-27-2008, 06:51 PM
 
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My 20 month old can carry a tune to a few songs - he doesn't talk but he can sing!
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#4 of 29 Old 01-27-2008, 06:57 PM
 
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I did a google search.
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/...pment/Sing.htm

Quote:
Recognition of the correct pitch may develop as early as the third year, although singing the correct pitch is usually not present for several years.
.......The basic learning hierarchy appears to be: "Words -> Rhythm -> Pitch" This develops further: "Pitch Contour -> Individual Phrase Stability -> Overall Key Stability". "By the age of five to six years, young children's singing may have acquired many of the features of the significant adult models."
Here's a journal article about preschool pitch and tonality. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=002...3E2.0.CO%3B2-G

I think she may yet be a great singer. FWIW, neither of my nearly four year olds have proper pitch. Their daddy can sing well and has a musically gifted family. Me not so much..as in not at all. One of my boys loves music and is good with rhythm at this point. Time will tell I suppose.

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#5 of 29 Old 01-27-2008, 07:00 PM
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My 4.5yo DD has just within the past year started actually carrying a tune - and definitely not a perfectly pitched one yet, at that!!
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#6 of 29 Old 01-28-2008, 12:19 AM
 
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I too, am a classically trained singer! My ds1 (almost 28 mos) just started singing full songs on pitch. Ds2 is 15 mos and he matches pitch amazingly well- but honestly I credit that to DH who has perfect pitch!
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#7 of 29 Old 01-28-2008, 12:32 AM
 
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I just laughed out loud at this thread title! My dd is 5.5 years old now and is just about the most horrible singer I've ever heard! It's so bad!

I of course tell her "That was a lovely song". She's taken to singing Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer and it's funny (and grueling) to listen to.

I am anxiously awaiting anything even remotely close to matching pitch. (And I am not holding my breath!)

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#8 of 29 Old 01-28-2008, 02:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I kept telling myself that perhaps she is just a little too young.
I'll just keep singing to and with her, and what happens will happen!
Thanks
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#9 of 29 Old 01-29-2008, 06:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sbgrace View Post
I did a google search.
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/...pment/Sing.htm

Quote:
Recognition of the correct pitch may develop as early as the third year, although singing the correct pitch is usually not present for several years.
.......The basic learning hierarchy appears to be: "Words -> Rhythm -> Pitch" This develops further: "Pitch Contour -> Individual Phrase Stability -> Overall Key Stability". "By the age of five to six years, young children's singing may have acquired many of the features of the significant adult models."
Hi everyone, I actually disagree with some of this. I teach Music Together, and a lot of the research (and my experience as a MT teacher & parent) points in a different direction.

I have heard 6 mo. old babies coo on pitch. My 28 mo. old daughter sings with perfect pitch—sometimes. Other times she sings the melodic contour: going "up" with the higher notes and "down" with the lower notes, but not on pitch. Most children in our (American) culture can sing in pitch by age 5, provided their early environment supports such learning. Children are young as age TWO have been shown to be able to sing in pitch w/ accurate rhythm, in other parts of the world where music making is part of their every day lives.

I find that the sequence is NOT "words - rhythm - pitch." Research shows that often kids learn music faster WITHOUT words, because they are not having to process the verbal component in addition to the musical component. It depends on the song, of course! (some songs' visual imagery is what 'hooks' them)

Also research definitely shows that some kids are stronger in rhythm, some are stronger in pitch--initially! With continued support and (most importantly) modeling by parents, the two will catch up with one another.

Anyway, you can go to music together's home page to read more about it.

The most important thing is that you sing and move w/ your child during these early years. Not necessarily music class-- just incorporate it into your everyday routines.
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#10 of 29 Old 01-29-2008, 07:00 PM
 
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Sorry, I hate sounding like a Music Together fanatic (although I do love the program and my work )... but I wanted to add one more thing:

ALL children can learn to sing in tune and keep accurate beat. But, in order for this to happen, the modeling & participation of parents or caregivers—regardless of their own musical ability— is essential.
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#11 of 29 Old 01-29-2008, 07:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by xochimama View Post
Hi everyone, I actually disagree with some of this. I teach Music Together, and a lot of the research (and my experience as a MT teacher & parent) points in a different direction.

I have heard 6 mo. old babies coo on pitch. My 28 mo. old daughter sings with perfect pitch—sometimes. Other times she sings the melodic contour: going "up" with the higher notes and "down" with the lower notes, but not on pitch. Most children in our (American) culture can sing in pitch by age 5, provided their early environment supports such learning. Children are young as age TWO have been shown to be able to sing in pitch w/ accurate rhythm, in other parts of the world where music making is part of their every day lives.

I find that the sequence is NOT "words - rhythm - pitch." Research shows that often kids learn music faster WITHOUT words, because they are not having to process the verbal component in addition to the musical component. It depends on the song, of course! (some songs' visual imagery is what 'hooks' them)

Also research definitely shows that some kids are stronger in rhythm, some are stronger in pitch--initially! With continued support and (most importantly) modeling by parents, the two will catch up with one another.

Anyway, you can go to music together's home page to read more about it.

The most important thing is that you sing and move w/ your child during these early years. Not necessarily music class-- just incorporate it into your everyday routines.
Just to clarify, you're just disagreeing with the sequence of skills as an absolute, right?

I think it's important to remember that some children will sing in tune as late as 6 or 7, and will still sing as well as anybody else as adults. If a 3 yo is not matching pitch, it doesn't necessarily mean that the environment is lacking.

FTR, I'm a singing teacher, and I've worked with teens and adults who were able to significantly improve pitch matching issues. For little ones, it's important to send the message that singing is fun and everybody does it all the time. If everybody grew up with that belief, I would be out of business. Go ahead! Put me out of business!

Dawn - Mom to : Jack 11/04 and David 5/08
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#12 of 29 Old 01-29-2008, 07:20 PM
 
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dd, at 21 months, really amazes us with her singing ability. She has been cooing recognizable refrains for at least a year. She doesn't sing the words, but can often imitate the pitch.

I'm sure it is different with everyone. Just because a kid doesn't get it right away doesn't mean they never will. Dd is just really musical. Ds on the other hand, couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. But I do think being exposed to music at a young age probably enhances potential for future ability. Not all will get it. Take me for example...
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#13 of 29 Old 01-29-2008, 07:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by birdie22 View Post
Just to clarify, you're just disagreeing with the sequence of skills as an absolute, right?

I think it's important to remember that some children will sing in tune as late as 6 or 7, and will still sing as well as anybody else as adults. If a 3 yo is not matching pitch, it doesn't necessarily mean that the environment is lacking.

FTR, I'm a singing teacher, and I've worked with teens and adults who were able to significantly improve pitch matching issues. For little ones, it's important to send the message that singing is fun and everybody does it all the time. If everybody grew up with that belief, I would be out of business. Go ahead! Put me out of business!
Right, I disagree about the sequence of skills. The skills—for both tonal development and rhythm development—will come and go in cycles.

And ITA about some kids learning to sing in tune "as late as 6 or 7". As you point out, sometimes it happens even later. It can just be so much more frustrating after age nine. And between ages 0-5, the "window" of their learning is so completely OPEN, it just happens naturally.

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Originally Posted by birdie22 View Post
If a 3 yo is not matching pitch, it doesn't necessarily mean that the environment is lacking.
Definitely agree here, too! All kids will develop on their own timetable, and no, it doesn't mean the environment is lacking. But some unfortunate social trends have cropped up in early childhood music development:

-there has been a marked decrease in the percentage of preschool kids who can sing in tune over the last twenty to thirty years

--our culture more readily supports music consumption vs. music making. everyone listens to CDs and that "professionally recorded" sound is what we call music, as opposed to the informal, family-oriented music experiences

I guess I just think it's really important that we don't label some kids as "musical" and others as "non-musical." They are ALL musical. You are absolutely right-- for little ones, it's just a matter of introducing music in the same way that you introduce language--natural, and part of everyday life.

Gosh, even if everyone did grow up learning how to sing, singing teachers would still never go out of business. We need you! I'm not a singer myself—my background is movement—and there is so much to learn about using my most important instrument...
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#14 of 29 Old 01-30-2008, 12:20 AM
 
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just wanted to "pipe in" LOL and say that my dd has been hitting notes on the piano and then singing the pitch... don't know if that means perfect pitch, but I was flabergasted when she started at 13? months... now she will sing baa, baa in the pitch I sing it in....

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#15 of 29 Old 01-30-2008, 12:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mamamille View Post
just wanted to "pipe in" LOL and say that my dd has been hitting notes on the piano and then singing the pitch... don't know if that means perfect pitch, but I was flabergasted when she started at 13? months... now she will sing baa, baa in the pitch I sing it in....
That means pitch-matching, not perfect pitch. Just as good (sometimes better depending on the musical situation).
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#16 of 29 Old 01-30-2008, 02:27 AM
 
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Interesting thread!

I can not sing. I sound awful. Neither can DH. We also can not afford the outrageously expensive Music Together classes. So how do we make sure we model music for our daughters? We sing everyday, We clap in tune, we sing both words and sounds etc. We don't listen to a lot of recorded music. What else should we be doing?
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#17 of 29 Old 01-30-2008, 02:46 AM
 
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I would have no idea if my children have pitch when they are singing. They are two, they like to sing, I think it is cute. Is there more? Am I supposed to be paying attention to something else? I know they emphasize certain parts of the song, "Happy BIRTHday to you". I just pull out the video camera.

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#18 of 29 Old 01-30-2008, 02:50 AM
 
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Interesting thread!

I can not sing. I sound awful. Neither can DH. We also can not afford the outrageously expensive Music Together classes. So how do we make sure we model music for our daughters? We sing everyday, We clap in tune, we sing both words and sounds etc. We don't listen to a lot of recorded music. What else should we be doing?
Sounds like you are doing everything right--just keep it up and keep it playful! We listen to recorded music all the time. We just sing and dance, too.

If you can, try to offer a wide variety of music styles, rhythms, tonalities. So try to go beyond "Row your boat". Kids respond really well to complex rhythms and non-major tonalities. They *get it* really quickly when they are exposed...

BTW, lots of MT centers have scholarships, but they don't always advertise that. Our classes cost $115, which is among the lowest for Music Together, and I NEVER turn away a family due to finances. EVER. But that's just me... not sure how other centers do it... sometimes you can work out a trade, like offer to answer the phone, hang posters, that sort of thing. It doesn't hurt to ask!
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#19 of 29 Old 01-30-2008, 11:28 AM
 
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Wow, Music Together sounds really great. I want to see if they have classes in my area.

My 18 mo can imitate pitch somewhat.
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#20 of 29 Old 01-30-2008, 12:24 PM
 
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dd didn't sing on pitch until she was 3, and she still doesn't always get it quite right, even on familiar songs... even though she is very interested in music and we've always done a lot of singing, etc.

ds surprised me by starting to sing on pitch when he was 18 months old. He can carry a tune better than dd! He definitely got pitch and rhythm before words - he is only just starting to add lyrics (since he can't handle the words to the whole song, he likes to repeat one word over and over - like this: "Mommy, Mommy, Mommy, Mommy..." to the tune of twinkle twinkle little star. It's so cute!)
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#21 of 29 Old 01-30-2008, 02:01 PM
 
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Great thread, very interesting to read.

But OT-- I had to laugh when I read the op's worry, because while I of course want to empower my dd to pursue and do anything she wants in life, at what 10 months? I had already noticed that she didn't have very 'good' natural turn-out. As a former dancer (never professional--just kept it as a serious hobby in college company and in a non-pro company after college), I was seriously bummed for her that she'd 'never be good enough' to be a professional ballerina, lacking the necessary genes for good turn-out. GEEZ. I mean, I love my dd and can't even believe I NOTICED this, but I did. Early. So, had to laugh at the similar-sounding-type of concern by a talented singing-mama. Well, at least I haven't resorted to what they used to do in China and Soviet Union-- 'work' on their babies and toddlers' turn out by forcing the hips open, etc. I used to try this on myself btw as a preteen, teen, but by then it was too late.

But now I am pg with #2 and if it's a 'he', he is SOOOO going into ballet. My dp and I are just the right people to supportively raise a fantastic male ballet dancer. So he will probably grow up to rebel by becoming a hockey player, right? LOL.

Hope that they all grow to enjoy all life has to offer.

But wow, I would be *thrilled* if dd could sing better than me!!! I am learning a lot from this thread on musical education for tots.
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#22 of 29 Old 01-30-2008, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Great thread, very interesting to read.

But OT-- I had to laugh when I read the op's worry, because while I of course want to empower my dd to pursue and do anything she wants in life, at what 10 months? I had already noticed that she didn't have very 'good' natural turn-out. As a former dancer (never professional--just kept it as a serious hobby in college company and in a non-pro company after college), I was seriously bummed for her that she'd 'never be good enough' to be a professional ballerina, lacking the necessary genes for good turn-out. GEEZ. I mean, I love my dd and can't even believe I NOTICED this, but I did. Early. So, had to laugh at the similar-sounding-type of concern by a talented singing-mama. Well, at least I haven't resorted to what they used to do in China and Soviet Union-- 'work' on their babies and toddlers' turn out by forcing the hips open, etc. I used to try this on myself btw as a preteen, teen, but by then it was too late.

But now I am pg with #2 and if it's a 'he', he is SOOOO going into ballet. My dp and I are just the right people to supportively raise a fantastic male ballet dancer. So he will probably grow up to rebel by becoming a hockey player, right? LOL.

Hope that they all grow to enjoy all life has to offer.

But wow, I would be *thrilled* if dd could sing better than me!!! I am learning a lot from this thread on musical education for tots.
I know, I know! I think that I was/am trying to stem my expectations early...so if she cant sing, I will have dealt with that before she knows I was disappointed.
It is interesting to hear all of the different ages that children show musical ability. Hearing other people's experience is helping my gauge my expectations. I don't expect her to even want to be a singer, but I do hope that she can carry a tune!
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#23 of 29 Old 01-30-2008, 07:56 PM
 
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This mezzo mama understands. I used to worry that dd had inherited dh's god-awful singing voice. : She didn't really sing with any recognizable pitch until she was just under 3.
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#24 of 29 Old 02-01-2008, 05:47 PM
 
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My undergrad degree is in music. I was a piano major, so I've probably sat through more voice lessons as an accompanist than most voice majors have taken themselves. We listen to an eclectic range of music at our house, from "the classics" to rock to reggae and so on. My 2.5yo DS has great rhythm. Sometimes he sings along with me, so for fun the other day (before I read this thread) I asked him if he could match a pitch I sang to him. He kinda did. So then I asked him to match a high sound that I made, and he could! Then I made a low sound, and he echoed it. Not so much singing in the whole voice production sense, but interesting to note his ability to distinguish between high and low sounds and produce them himself (other than screaming ).


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#25 of 29 Old 02-01-2008, 06:11 PM
 
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I am also a classically trained singer. My DD CANNOT sing. It is AWFUL. She loves to do it, but at almost six, I'm pretty sure she's not going to be a singer. However, my four yo DS CAN match pitch and does sing pretty well. My fave *skill* the kids have aquired is being able to pick out different instruments when we are listening to music. DS is also quite good at that.

We sing lots during the day, made up songs and common ones and not so common ones and we almost always have music on. I figure we'll start instrument lessons one of these days, but the fact that we've always had music/singing going on around them/to them/with them I think will really help.

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#26 of 29 Old 02-01-2008, 06:24 PM
 
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This is really interesting to me, because I've always wondered if my son's attention to pitch was typical or not. I feel like I've known a lot of people who have thought their very young toddlers displayed some sort of musical aptitude (sort of like everyone thinks their own children are of above-average intelligence, perhaps), and none of them (that I've known) have gone on to be particularly "musical."

Here's what I recall about my son from when he was younger (12-18 months):
-He would imitate (on pitch) the ding-dong-ding-dong sound my car makes when you turn off the engine but the headlights are still on.
-He had a ride-on horse that made noise, and he would imitate the whinny of the horse--again, on pitch.
-He would "sing" songs before he could talk (12-14 months) that were clearly recognizable by melody, even though he wasn't using any words.
-A few times, when he was ~16 months old, I was playing the piano while he ate or played, and when I made a mistake (not a minor mistake, but one that caused dissonance), he laughed.

He'll be three next week, and he doesn't show any indication that he's going to be some sort of musical prodigy, but he has retained his very nice sense of pitch, and he can definitely sing on-key (although he sometimes doesn't, if he's trying to sing obnoxiously loud, for example).

Oh, and he's been sitting next to me while I typed this, and has made repeated requests that I "get that ( guy." So, here:
: : :
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#27 of 29 Old 02-01-2008, 09:14 PM
 
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very interesting thread!

I've also wondered if my ds (20 mos) is musically talented at all because like your ds, he matches the pitch/tone of all kinds of things and he has certain sentences that he says that he cannot pronounce the words but he copies the exact tone that I tell him something in. For example I told him once to say "Help me mama!" and ever since then he copies my exact tone and rhythm with MA mee mahh mahh!, whenever he needs help.. almost sounds like me talking! Except with the word ma instead of help...lol... He does the same for "no more monkeys jumpin on the bed!!" "no more boo boo boo boo boo boo!!!!" but with the right low "mans voice" tone and rhythm etc.
He also sings very accurate pitch, rhythm, tone to the little einsteins theme song, or pieces of it.

And the ONLY thing he likes to watch on TV other than little einsteins are concerts (he loves Michael Buble, Bon Jovi....basically anything) and will just stand and stare at it or dance...

But who know, he's only 20 months lol..

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#28 of 29 Old 02-01-2008, 10:43 PM
 
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My dd is 19 months old and can repeat the tune to Rock a Bye Baby note for note. She's be able to do that for a while now. My favorite is when she sings to herself and my or DH's parents ask what she's singing... this is her new favorite DVD...http://www.anuna.ie/ She love the Irish and Celtic songs!!

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#29 of 29 Old 02-02-2008, 03:05 AM
 
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I laughed at the OP because as a trained soprano myself I understand the fear that your child will be tone deaf . Dh and I both have some classical training. We both sing pretty much constantly but don't listen to a lot of recorded music. I've always thought that I didn't need to put on a CD because there is always at least one song in my head at a given moment. I took dd to Music Together when she was about 16 months for 10 weeks and again a year later when she was about 28 months for 10 weeks. She is now 33 months and is just starting to be able to sing a short song in tune. She sings all the time - usually made up songs and I am hopeful that she will be able to sing like mommy and daddy. I am proud of the musical start that we've given her. I really enjoyed Music Together as it reinforced my belief that life is musical. We sing our way through the day and I don't think it can not rub off on dd.
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Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 01:21 PM.