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Should I force my 2 year old to drop naps in hopes of better night time sleeping?

2K views 34 replies 27 participants last post by  MiriamF 
#1 ·
My 2yo DD has always been a very alert child and hence has very little need for sleep. If we could force her into a routine that actually sticks, and keep her very busy, I estimate she would do fine on 11 hours a day. The problem is because she is always fighting sleep (and has recently learned to take long naps, which never happened prior to a few months ago!) she can go stay awake for 16+ hours at a time and she can also do that for days on end. Eventually the sleep deprivation catches up with her and she sleeps for 11 hours at night and then takes a really long nap or something.

She also nurses constantly at night. It's really annoying. I know she doesn't really need to nurse all. night. long. at 28 months months, and I know that she sleeps REALLY soundly when she's REALLY tired.

So I'm convinced that the only way to get a decent schedule, a consistent bed time and better sleep is to not allow her to nap! I think it would be the easiest way to get her to bed routinely by 8, 9 at the latest, and awake at 7. I'd love opinions. How to do this? Is it a really bad idea? Any reason not to? Have anyone done it and got an amazing change like I expect?
 
#3 ·
We-ell.

I did that with my DD in the past 10 days. DH has been gone, and *I'm* exhausted by 8pm....and he's not here to do the bedtime battle...so....

She easily goes 8-9 hours. So, around 4pm (the Witching Hour), we go down to the playground, or put on a video, or bake some cookies, or do something she REALLY enjoys for an hour/hour and a half. It *has* to be something she enjoys. At which point, it's time for dinner, cleanup, bath, books....she's been going to be between 630-730pm, and sleeping through to the morning (730-800, it seems to be) except for a brief wakeup at 10-11pm.

It's heaven. I just have no patience by 8pm after 12 hours straight with no break...so, yeah, getting her in bed before that point is excellent for me...I don't know if it will help in your situation, but, it can't hurt
 
#4 ·
well not quite that early but I did drop DS's nap when it started to inch later and really started to interfere with going to bed, when he started staying up til Midnight I cut it out and started being able to get him to bed at 8:30 or 9. It was rough at first, but it was essential for our family...DH and I never had a single minute together without DS and that was rough and we couldn't cope with 12 am bedtimes when DH needed to go to bed at 10 himself.

I wish I could remember how old he was when we did this..I really can't, I don't think he was quite three but I think maybe he was close to it.
 
#6 ·
Whenever we've tried to keep DS from napping he is a terror all evening and doesn't go to bed much earlier. Now if he naps, he naps and if he doesn't he doesn't. I don't push it either way although I will go for a car ride if I think he needs to sleep but isn't letting himself.
 
#7 ·
I have to vote no.

This is just based on my dd, who may or may not be similar to yours, but this did NOT work for us. It made her a total monster (sorry, dd!) by about 6 PM and she did NOT sleep any better. In fact, I'd say she slept WORSE because by that time she was so wired by the lack of sleep


There is a great book I read about a year ago called "Living with the Active, Alert Child". It described my dd to a T, and actually did address the issue of sleep and why such tactics as skipping naps, later bedtimes, etc. dont work with such children...If you think you're in the same boat, it is well worth the read....
 
#8 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by EVC View Post
I have to vote no.

There is a great book I read about a year ago called "Living with the Active, Alert Child". It described my dd to a T, and actually did address the issue of sleep and why such tactics as skipping naps, later bedtimes, etc. dont work with such children...If you think you're in the same boat, it is well worth the read....
I definitely have an "active, alert" child. I will look into the book.
She's never slept decently. It has always been a fight. And I realize that she will initially be really cranky, because she's had days when she's skipped naps/had ten minute naps and she always ended up over-exhausted and slept really badly and been really difficult to put down to sleep. BUT - the alternative just sucks so bad. Last night she was up until 12:05 (just past midnight) and I woke her up to ensure an early bedtime today. So she woke up at 7:45. That's 7 hours and 40 minutes of sleep for a 28 months old at night - with waking and tossing and turning and nursing at least 6 or 7 times. She had a nap at 11:00 and was awake by 12:30. Longer than ideal but again, she only slept 7hr40min. Anyhow we hopes to get her to sleep by 8 pm and have her sleep until 7 am (with a million wakings of course, but at least not screaming and demanding to go downstairs).

Anyhow my husband got her to sleep in the stroller at 7:20 because she was so tired that all she could do was scream and she didn't even want to nurse, and lo and behold, less than an hour later, she's awake and screaming "I WANT TO GO DOWNSTAIRS. I AM NOT TIRED. I AM REALLY NOT TIRED. I WANNA READ BOOKS." I am really just so sick of this, and this has been our lives since Day 1. I used to hate the idea of schedules for kids but my daughter desperately needs one, and as much as we've tried to not let it be, sleep has definitely become an "issue" and she's onto us with our every move. And the only reason we've never been successful at getting her to on a 'schedule' is due to that darn nap that she uses to manipulate night time sleeping.

So that's why out of desperation I'm willing to stick it out with no naps for as long as it takes to adjust her to sleeping only at night. I know it will suck at first. And I know it will severely limit what I can do during the day because any bike ride/stroller walk/car ride will allow her to fall asleep at the drop of the hat when she's really tired - not to mention nursing will allow her to fall asleep too - so I have to have lots of tricks up my sleeve - and like a pp mentioned, just do lots of stuff she loves to get her through the really tired part of the day.

I would love to hear more success stories and ideas!
 
#10 ·
It did work for my active, alert child. But, we also nightweaned at 20 months, and that helped, too. Around 27 months he dropped the nap. Bedtime was 6:30-7. Around midnight he'd wake, DH would go sleep with him the rest of the night (double bed), and he wake around 6:30. He also started two afternoons of preschool at that age, and that helped, too.

Good luck. I feel grateful that DH was extremely helpful with the nighttime parenting. It does end. Starting at 3, DS was sleeping through the night, every night, for 11 hours.
-e
 
#11 ·
Try Elizabeth Pantley. We have a very active child and we loved her No Cry Sleep Solution and I understand she has one for toddlers. Her ideas are sort of scheduling, but all based on the child's leading you to what she needs.

We have found that our son can go on limited sleep, but that he's happier on more, no matter what he thinks or tries to convince us of! Before he turned 2, he was a 7:30-7:30 guy with a long nap (2-3 hours) in the afternoon, for a total of 14-15 hours. Now he's more of an 8:30-8 guy with a slightly shorter nap for an average of 13-14 hours. I think you're on the right track with knowing how much sleep she needs, but perhaps she still needs it broken up into a nap and bedtime. An earlier bedtime might help or just an earlier start to the routine; it's like when you stay up late and can't sleep because you've "missed the window". I know that my son gets up earlier when we put him to bed later. It sounds odd, but that's what it is!

I might also say that perhaps she's ready for her own bed? Perhaps she's sleeping restlessly because she can access you for nursing and that possibility keeps her from falling deeply asleep? You might even forgo the bedtime battle if she's in her own room, because if she choses not to sleep, she can just continue to read books in her bed until she is sleepy.
 
#12 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by TefferTWH View Post

I might also say that perhaps she's ready for her own bed? Perhaps she's sleeping restlessly because she can access you for nursing and that possibility keeps her from falling deeply asleep? You might even forgo the bedtime battle if she's in her own room, because if she choses not to sleep, she can just continue to read books in her bed until she is sleepy.
Well, I've been really thinking about her "own" bed/nightweaning but it's pretty much impossible. I will say this much. We have a set up of a king size mattress on the floor adjacent to a twin size mattress. My husband sleeps on the twin and she and I sleep on the king. The king is a higher mattress than the twin so to her it's distinctively a different bed that belongs to daddy. Last night on a whim I decided to move the twin bed to the wall so it's wedged between the wall and the king bed. I told her it was her new "pooh bed" as she's obsessed with pooh and I have an old pooh bedcover that she loves. She was ecstatic to sleep in her pooh bed... except she didn't sleep. She played and played and played and then asked for a little pooh bear to sleep with her and then she kept saying "come in here mommy, I need you to come in here". The novelty quickly wore off. Still I decided if she was a little bit below us and was surrounded by pillows she would sleep better. When I finally nursed her to sleep several hours later, she ended up sleeping for 3 hours and then waking up to nurse and immediately yelled that she didn't want to be in the pooh bear bed. I didn't see a point in fighting, as it's much more comfortable to nurse on the king size, so I kicked dh off back to his bed and she proceeded to spend the rest of the night nursing and switching sides every minute or so with few breaks.
:

In short, I'm a total wimp. Either that or my child is really different. The idea of putting her in a bed by herself and expecting her to read books until she is sleepy is laughable. She will always always always fight that last moment before sleep or demand to nurse. And I know that she will scream until can't breathe if we don't give in. I have a really hard time with this. My husband insinuates that we're a part of this problem, and yeah, I'm sure nursing on demand her entire life, including at night, and never leaving her in the care of anyone else prompted this - but she is an extremely strong personality and was so from the day she was born - and plenty of people do what we do and end up with a perfectly agreeable child. It's really frustrating. Now my husband's heading off to bed and I get to spend the next few hours alone with her, and I have to be ready to babysit at 8:30 am.


I guess tomorrow isn't going to be a good day for skipping nap but I sure do hope to start the day after!
 
#13 ·
We were having the nap time battles and the night time battles where she would look at me and be so tired but did not want to lay down. It's been a few weeks since she has not napped and it has made bed time a ton easier as well as some breathing time at night for us. Of course she gets tired during the day but really zones out and plays quietly for a while which seems to recharge her.

If you do try skipping naps, I believe it is important to stick with it for at least a week for her to adjust. This is hard. The first 2 days its nice, but it seems like it all catches up to them and desperately needs a nap. After a couple weeks it seems to work itself out though.

It sounds like you need something to change though for everyone to have a little peace...you're on the right track, hang in there.
 
#14 ·
We did it, and it worked great for us. He gets pretty tired in the evenings, but he was staying up until 12 or 1 with naps. He would prefer to take one, but if I distract it he is fine. It is worth a try for sure. But our issue wasn't night time sleep quality, it was staying up too late.
His change to being able to go to sleep without nursing was very sudden. Now he can just get in bed and go to sleep, I'm sure that it will happen for you too eventually!
 
#15 ·
Well, we didn't end the nap, she stopped napping on her own around age 2
, but she does sleep about 13 hours at night now (7:30pm-8:30am) and to be honest, I kind of like it! With two older kids, it's nice to not be tied to the house all afternoon while she sleeps. Plus, her nighttime sleep is great. Getting from about 5-7 can be a little trying at times though.
 
#16 ·
Well shoot. My DD isn't even 1 yet and I'm wondering if I should cut out some of her afternoon naps b/c she sleeps for shite right now and we don't know what to do with her anymore. And napping has always been bad to non-existent. I'm tired of fighting her down. All too often I lose.

I can see my future in these posts and it scares me. We need sleep! We don't care if DD sleeps or not but she needs to let us be so we can function!

When she's older,I can see us putting her in a crib in her own room with some toys and a night light and if she sleeps, she sleeps, if she plays all night, she plays all night just so long as we get some sleep!

I'm seriously considering going back to work so she can go into daycare in the hopes that it will tire her out. I think she needs more stimulation than just me all day. But I need enough sleep to drive first!

Anyway, we're not into toddlerhood yet, but having the same issues y'all are.


V
 
#17 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by MiriamF View Post
Anyhow my husband got her to sleep in the stroller at 7:20 because she was so tired that all she could do was scream and she didn't even want to nurse, and lo and behold, less than an hour later, she's awake and screaming "I WANT TO GO DOWNSTAIRS. I AM NOT TIRED. I AM REALLY NOT TIRED. I WANNA READ BOOKS." I am really just so sick of this, and this has been our lives since Day 1. I used to hate the idea of schedules for kids but my daughter desperately needs one, and as much as we've tried to not let it be, sleep has definitely become an "issue" and she's onto us with our every move. And the only reason we've never been successful at getting her to on a 'schedule' is due to that darn nap that she uses to manipulate night time sleeping.
We went through this with my now almost 5 year old and are hitting it now with my 2 today daughter. With my older daughter, it took weeks of playing around with bedtime to find the *exact* right time. I don't remember the particulars now, but it was something like that sleep at 7:20 and her body thought it was a nap, sleep at 7:26 and she was down for the night - just a few minutes made a huge difference.

Erica
 
#18 ·
In my experience sleep induces sleep, if you force your child to drop their nap, you will probably end up with a toddler who is grumpy and grizzly in the afternoons, and does not sleep well at night.

By limiting the nap to 1-1.5 hrs you may get a better result.
 
#19 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by poppyseed View Post
In my experience sleep induces sleep, if you force your child to drop their nap, you will probably end up with a toddler who is grumpy and grizzly in the afternoons, and does not sleep well at night.

By limiting the nap to 1-1.5 hrs you may get a better result.
Hahaha. I have a special child.
: She only naps 1-1.5 hours a day and if her nap ends later than 12:30 she's definitely up until 10:30 at least if not 11. And she always can go 12 hours staying awake if she's well rested so I really think the trick is to get her to do this repeatedly, while sleeping the other 12 hours, instead of having her sleep be all over the place.

Last night was rough and she got less than 7 hours sleep. She's happily playing now though and I know I'm not going to be able to skip nap though. I definitely will tomorrow when she will be hopefully more well rested and I don't have to baby sit.

By the way it's usually bad but not this bad. I have a feeling she's working on her two year molars - and she usually takes for.ever. to cut her teeth.
 
#20 ·
Miriam, I also have that child who defies the "sleep begets sleep." If only!

Change is hard. I found that it came when I had reached my limit. And then DH and I came up with a plan to change things one step at a time. And we went into it expecting each step to take up to two weeks. So we started with only DH doing bedtime, not me. ANd yes, DS was upset, but he was with his father -- it's not like we were CIO or something. Luckily DH was committed to it and after a few days, DS accepted it. Then we'd work on changing the next thing. I realized that my mental health was important to the overall health of the family.

I hope you can find some relief. Your posts bring back the anguish for me!

-e
 
#22 ·
Once I find that my kids are sleeping more in 24 hours without a nap, then I let them give it up. Notice I said let, not force, since my kids are ready to give up that nap way before I'm ready for them! Some kids won't sleep 12 hours at night, no matter what time they go to sleep. My DS could stay up to midnight or later on a drive-through movie night at only 3 years old - and he would still be up at 7:00 or earlier. I think most of us, adults included, have natural sleep patterns and it's easiest to go with the flow. If naps are needed, then I do think it's fine to end the nap the earlier and see how that works. But if there's less sleep in 24 hours without the nap than with, I'd still to the nap. I do whatever allows for the max sleep.

Both my kids were done with their naps by 2. But they took different patterns in dropping them. DS would take a later afternoon nap and go to bed later at night, like even 10pm. DD had to be done napping by 1:30 or she wouldn't go to sleep until after 9pm. Now, DD goes to sleep around 7:30 though DS couldn't handle a bedtime that early at the same age.
 
#23 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by kohlby View Post
Once I find that my kids are sleeping more in 24 hours without a nap, then I let them give it up. Notice I said let, not force, since my kids are ready to give up that nap way before I'm ready for them! Some kids won't sleep 12 hours at night, no matter what time they go to sleep. My DS could stay up to midnight or later on a drive-through movie night at only 3 years old - and he would still be up at 7:00 or earlier. I think most of us, adults included, have natural sleep patterns and it's easiest to go with the flow. If naps are needed, then I do think it's fine to end the nap the earlier and see how that works. But if there's less sleep in 24 hours without the nap than with, I'd still to the nap. I do whatever allows for the max sleep.
Yeah, see I'm not REDUCING her sleeping hours by any means. I'm just ORGANIZING her sleep better during those 24 hours. I'm really just trying to distribute the sleep in a way that gives her less of an opportunity to manipulate her schedule. I have a strong feeling that she'll adjust to the 11 hours at night pretty quickly (which is all she needs during 24 hours) so long as we can get her to sleep long enough at night to not be so tired during the day that she passes out.

This thread is really encouraging! I'll update when/if we have a success... I hope!
 
#24 ·
i did this when my ds was around 2.5 because i was tired of fighting him to sleep twice a day. with a nap, whether it was 30 minutes or two hours, he would not go to sleep till 11p.m. for the first week he would ask to nurse in the middle of the afternoon, but after that he stopped asking. with no nap he started going to sleep super quick at 8p.m. and sleeping till 8a.m. ds was nightweaned by this time. i find a snack around 3p.m. helps with crankiness.
 
#25 ·
Miriam,
We are in the exact situation as you, including similar sleeping arrangements and nursing. I can't leave her in her room or anywhere else and expect her to stay there. We are not CIO and that would definitely start the end of the world.

My dd has begun to fight naps as much as nighttime sleeping, so we stopped trying. The results are all over the map. The earlier bedtime has led to some weird wakings (3am, 4am, 7am, 8:30am). Some of those earlier ones were brief, 15 min, some longer, 2 hrs.) Today, she fell asleep at 5pm--so I'm in for it--but I will say that having the evening to myself and dh has been really nice.

I feel a little guilty when she's so tired that she gets grumpy--but I can lead a horse to water, not make her drink. I had good success with early shortish naps on occasion before, but now, like I said, I can't seem to make that
happen.

Nice to see at least that I'm not alone...
 
#26 ·
I haven't read all the other posts, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating anybody else. Go get "Sleepless in America; Is your child misbehaving or missing sleep?" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinca. It is the best sleep book that I have ever read. She takes temperament and all sorts of other things into consideration. My just turned 2yo was a horrible sleeper up till I get this book from the library. And I had read many others including the No Cry Sleep Solution and other popular sleep books. It is an awesome book and after having it from the library for 6wks I'm going to buy it from Amazon. You can get it for about $10 with shipping. http://www.amazon.com/Sleepless-Amer...=ATVPDKIKX0DER
 
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