"Baby NEEDS touch mama's udda boob!" - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-20-2009, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
MamieCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Says my 29 month old DS. Every single time he nurses for the last few months he tries to put his hand inside my shirt and touch my other boob. The nipple touching drives me insane. I physically can't stand it. I have tried everything I can think of. I have gently removed his hand each time and explained that it hurts me and he needs to stop. I brought out his nursing necklace and tried explaining that he could play with it instead of my other boob. I have tried heading it off at the pass by explaining before he nurses that he is not allowed to touch my other boob and if he does I will have to put him down. He says he understands, then as soon as he is nursing, straight for the twiddling. *sigh*

He gets extremely upset when I remove his hand to the point of literally "fighting" my hand away with his own. He cries. He yells. Then comes the "Baby needs touch mama's udda boob! Baby NEEDS to!" I have managed to stay calm every single time and follow through on putting him down each time he does it, but it is really getting old. He does it every single time he nurses, which is still many, many times a day and night.

I got AF back about 6 months ago and he started with his "udda boob" obsession about 3 months ago. I don't feel like my supply has dropped, but I have thought that it might be one explanation. Other than that, I am at a loss as to why he is doing this now and how I can get him to stop.

Any suggestions?
MamieCole is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-20-2009, 06:35 PM
 
Theoretica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Inside my head (it's quiet here!)
Posts: 3,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
no suggestions but I *am* : at the imagery...and betting my 9mo does the same thing, as she's a nipple twiddler also

Good luck mama!

GOOD moms let their kids lick the beaters. GREAT moms turn off the mixer first!
Humanist Woman Wife , & Friend Plus Mama to 6 (3 mos, 2, 9, 13, 17, 20)
Theoretica is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 06:59 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 2,422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh man, I had a nipple twiddler too! Your LO's comment made me smile.

I've heard that a reason for doing it is to get a better letdown. I know of other moms of toddlers who have experienced the twiddling as well, you are definitely not alone.
Biscuits & Gravy is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 07:07 PM
 
chaoticzenmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My son tried that and it creeped me out too. I don't care if there's an physiological reason for it, it doesn't feel good, so I just consistently removed his hand and said "no." Maybe you could get a nursing necklace that he could "twiddle" while he breastfeeds.

At this point, if his vocabulary is that good, then he's old enough to learn to respect other people's boundaries. If you were to allow it, even though it made you feel weird, you would start to have resentments towards his breastfeeding and that wouldn't be good for either of you.

Our children make a study of us in a way no one else ever will.  If we don't act according to our values, they will know.~Starhawk Rainbow.gif  New  User Agreement! http://www.mothering.com/community/wiki/user-agreement

chaoticzenmom is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 07:13 PM
 
LianneM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 3,191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You definitely have the right to set that limit with your body. Have you tried wearing a nursing bra or tank so the other side is covered, even under your shirt? This works for me and my little twiddler, and it's much harder for me to stop her when I only have on a shirt with no bra (like at night).

WAHMama to Allen (2-10-05) and Alexa (6-27-08)
LianneM is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 07:16 PM
 
yarngoddess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Placerville,CA~best place for me!~
Posts: 1,740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh man, I'm so sorry! This would drive me crazy! My 3yr old thinks it's funny every once in a while to try this because of my reaction! I have NEVER had a twiddler- and I don't know that I could handle one to be honest. From a non-twiddler pov I would say that you are doing a great job staying consistant and gentle in your approach to dealing with this situation. I would also try to TALK about nursing before you let him nurse, and other times in the day when he's not nursing about how to leave the udda one alone. He sounds very smart and I think with some gentle reminders during the day he will eventually get the picture of not doing it.

Could AF also be making you more sensative to his touching? Has he always been a twiddler? I hope you get this handled! Hang in there momma!

Married to Michael and Mother of Jake 9, Jillianne 7, Jensen 5, Jacen 4. I've got severe osteoporosis, a fractured hip and chronic pain-so please be patient with me! Pagan,Crocheter,Reader,Homeschooler- that's me in a nutshell.

yarngoddess is offline  
Old 02-21-2009, 06:25 AM
 
Jezzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My 13 mo does this too. She will slip her hand into my bra/tank and caress and twiddle. During the day it doesn't bother me like it does at night. I have tried to give her a *lovey* she doesn't want anything to do with it. She is either twiddling her hair or my other boob. This makes it difficult to nip because she is lifting my shirt to get at the other boob. I thought it was kinda cute at first but.... she is getting more agressive with her get to the other boobie tactics!
Jezzy is offline  
Old 02-21-2009, 07:09 AM
 
FreeSpiritMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My 2.75yr old has always been a nipple twiddler. It didn't bother me when he was small but sometime after I got AF back when he was 20months it started to become an issue for me, especially around AF time. I try to have other things handy for him to twiddle (beads I'm wearing, clothes, my hand) and say very gently no twiddling it hurts mama's num nums (his milk word) somtimes when he is very upset or tired I still let him twiddle and he is generally ok with this (we've been working on it a good few months now)
FreeSpiritMama is offline  
Old 02-22-2009, 05:27 PM
 
MilkyMuse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Both of my boys (now 6 yrs, weaned, and 13 months, still nursing) have been enthusiastic nipple twiddlers! My older son called it "foodling." (As in, "Mommy, can I nurse? I promise I won't foodle!") As another poster said, when he was small I didn't mind it; it was kind of sweet. By the time he was about 18 months old it drove me crazy and I wished I'd never let him start! So with my second I tried distracting him from my other nipple as soon as he showed interest...but I confess there have been times it wasn't annoying and I was distracted with working on something and so I let him "foodle." I know that lately he has wanted to do it more and it also has annoyed me more due to pre-menstrual sensitivity. It's really common to have slower flow or somewhat reduced supply before a period and has been the case for me.

Stimulating mom's other nipple has a similar effect to double pumping. In a way baby is "turning up" the milk flow. Seems babies are hard-wired to be able to get what they need!

I've also noticed that my toddler, while nursing, will pinch, slap, and even bite me to get my attention if he's pretty much done and I'm working on the computer. That's my cue to wrap it up & do more work another time; however I also do not continue nursing after he hits or bites me! I give an appropriate toy and say, "Bite this." Or "let's drum on the floor!" Sometime's it's an attention-getter too.

Good luck!
MilkyMuse is offline  
Old 02-22-2009, 06:58 PM
 
D_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I put ds down every time - no warning or anything (after the first times obviosly when I tried to negotiate!). We just stopped and were done for a while before I'd let him try again.

DS (6.06), DD (10.08), DD (05.11).

D_McG is offline  
Old 02-22-2009, 07:04 PM
 
sweetpeppers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Medford, NJ
Posts: 836
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuits & Gravy View Post
Oh man, I had a nipple twiddler too! Your LO's comment made me smile.

I've heard that a reason for doing it is to get a better letdown. I know of other moms of toddlers who have experienced the twiddling as well, you are definitely not alone.
My son does this too. He's 2.

my toy shop on etsy.com: wooden baby keys, natural bathtub toys, wooden animals, little kitchens, waldorf dolls...also check out my blog about saving money, creating things, and natural living
sweetpeppers is offline  
Old 02-22-2009, 08:46 PM
 
eirual's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: GTA, Canada
Posts: 4,314
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post
At this point, if his vocabulary is that good, then he's old enough to learn to respect other people's boundaries. .
Not to single you out, but because you said what I used to think.

I thought for sure by the 912th time of telling DS "just one" and "don't touch the other nipple!" he'd get the point (actually I'm sure he hears it about 20Xs/day and has been nursing now for 3.5yrs). But still at 3.5, he just cannot RESIST which makes me think it runs deeper than logic and is truly beyond their control.

To cope, I've noticed it happens just before he is ready to switch so when I can maintain my composure, I ask him: would you like the other one? I can tolerate a firm, constatn preassure, so sometimes I lay my flat hand over his and keep it covered. I also do my best to keep the other one in-accessable.

Laurie, wife to guitar.gifDH (Aug/04), mom tobikenew.gifDS1 (Nov/05) and bfinfant.gifDS2 (June/12).

 

eirual is offline  
Old 02-22-2009, 10:21 PM
 
Muaile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh man do I feel your pain...I've weaned my boy since a week ago now but the twiddling still perseveres!

I get "pwease mammy jus hand der"

what can i do? it is sooooo annoying, but i adore the little prince and he goes into such a comfy trance...

sometimes when he pinches suddenly i could almost smack his hand!

it is the pits...!
Muaile is offline  
Old 02-22-2009, 11:12 PM
 
angelachristin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: manifesting us back to california
Posts: 885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i feel your pain...I have always hated it and it's gotten about 6 trillion billion gazillion times worse since I got pregnant. It bothers me more, and he wants to do it more, too. GAH.

Mama to 2 sweet gorgeous children, a 4-year-old DS and a 1-year-old DD.
angelachristin is offline  
Old 02-22-2009, 11:17 PM
 
stacyann21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: California
Posts: 1,473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
DS always pats or pinches my other breast while he nurses. It doesn't bother me

Mom to a bright & energetic 6 y.o. boy  blahblah.gif   With my sweetie for 10 years now  blowkiss.gif  Registered nurse  caffix.gif

stacyann21 is offline  
Old 02-23-2009, 01:28 AM
 
summerforever1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If my 13.5 month old could talk I am certain he would say that he "NEEDS" to twiddle the other boob. He is absolutely obsessed with it and will widdle his way under my arm/hand/shirt/whatever. If he cannot get at it he will arch his back and cry and through a huge fit. I am trying to be consistent, but anyone who nurses knows you get distracted and when this happens -boom- he's right there twiddling. I don't like it, but it is incredibly soothing to him. Like others have said he's not interested in twiddling with anything but mama's milk.

Drew, mom to Ben (1-7-08), expecting another wonderful babe 4-1-10 via .
summerforever1977 is offline  
Old 02-23-2009, 06:15 AM
~pi
 
~pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mine (32 months) does this ALL THE TIME. He discovered twiddling shortly after he developed arm control.

I do not have the energy to fight it all the time -- it's just too ridiculous. I did make a concerted, consistent effort to stop it entirely, and I just didn't have the patience for it. I don't think he is entirely able to control it.

However, I am especially sensitive at certain points in my cycle, and sometimes I'm just plain irritated or irritable, so I set some limits. I taught him to fold his hands together (as in, "Here's the church, here's the steeple, open the doors, and here are the people!") and when I need him to, I tell him to please keep his hands together, and he will do it for long enough for me to recover my sanity.

mama.

If it is any consolation, you are not alone. Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68Dr3-l6ugQ

(It's a lovely video whether or not you have a twiddler, but there are twiddling scenes that, judging from other comments, are very evocative for those of us with twiddlers!)

professor & maman de DS1 (6) & DS2 (1)

~pi is offline  
Old 02-23-2009, 01:15 PM
 
Theoretica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Inside my head (it's quiet here!)
Posts: 3,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~pi View Post
Mine (32 months) does this ALL THE TIME. He discovered twiddling shortly after he developed arm control.

I do not have the energy to fight it all the time -- it's just too ridiculous. I did make a concerted, consistent effort to stop it entirely, and I just didn't have the patience for it. I don't think he is entirely able to control it.

However, I am especially sensitive at certain points in my cycle, and sometimes I'm just plain irritated or irritable, so I set some limits. I taught him to fold his hands together (as in, "Here's the church, here's the steeple, open the doors, and here are the people!") and when I need him to, I tell him to please keep his hands together, and he will do it for long enough for me to recover my sanity.

mama.

If it is any consolation, you are not alone. Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68Dr3-l6ugQ

(It's a lovely video whether or not you have a twiddler, but there are twiddling scenes that, judging from other comments, are very evocative for those of us with twiddlers!)
LOVE the video, thanks for sharing!

GOOD moms let their kids lick the beaters. GREAT moms turn off the mixer first!
Humanist Woman Wife , & Friend Plus Mama to 6 (3 mos, 2, 9, 13, 17, 20)
Theoretica is offline  
Old 02-23-2009, 02:05 PM
 
MayLibertySprout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoretica View Post
LOVE the video, thanks for sharing!
::
MayLibertySprout is offline  
Old 02-23-2009, 02:48 PM
 
BarnMomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
HUGS!!!

We are so there too! DS is 19 mo and is a pain in the butt about it! He just will not stop! If it's not the other boob, it's the belly button digging, if I cover that up, he finds a skin tag that I have and tugs on that. It's infuriating.

And if I hold one hand, the other creeps up out of nowhere. He's like an octopus. Or one of those giant squids you see in old pirate movies with tentacles all over swallowing a ship. That's what it feels like to me.
BarnMomma is offline  
Old 02-23-2009, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
MamieCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnMomma View Post

And if I hold one hand, the other creeps up out of nowhere. He's like an octopus. Or one of those giant squids you see in old pirate movies with tentacles all over swallowing a ship. That's what it feels like to me.
Oh boy...that visual made me :
It certainly feels like they must have eight arms when they are determined to get their twiddle on, huh?

Thanks so much for the advice and commiseration mamas...I never realized this was so common with toddlers. Guess I just have to keep on keeping on with being consistent and eventually he'll stop. Until then, I just have to hope we continue to avoid the pleading to touch my "udda boob" in public. Can't imagine the looks I would get over that one.
MamieCole is offline  
Old 02-23-2009, 05:01 PM
 
sagemomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: by the sea
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
lol ok first off, his little comment. toooo precious.
i know how ya feel though, mine liked to scratch with his nails on my other boob, itty bitty nails are tickly and painful at the same time lol.
now he is weaned but still likes to hold them when he's fussy or sleepy, eh i just let him it won't last long that he gets to snuggle on boobs whenever he feels the need for some comfort lol
sagemomma is offline  
Old 02-23-2009, 05:11 PM
 
Carlyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Yuba River (California)
Posts: 2,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
What's helped my dd is that I've been teaching her to "keep your hand away from my nipple." For me, it's okay if she touches the boob itself as long as she's far away from the nipple. It seems to be enough of a compromise for us that it works (not that she doesn't need constant reminders, but it certainly helps).

Mama to Nell (11/15/06) and Maggie (10/9/10) . AFTER 2.5 YEARS, I AM AN AUNTIE!!! joy.gifHOORAY TEAR78 and welcome Anika and Brand New Baby Boy!!!!  Circumcision: the more you know, the worse it is; please leave the decision up to your son!

Carlyle is offline  
Old 02-24-2009, 01:17 AM
 
surfamy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi Mama,

My suggestion would be to use your forearm to block the other breast. I have no idea why they gravitate towards the other breast, but mine did too. I just put my forearm over my other nipple while I am nursing and thus block any attempts to touch the nipple. Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Amy

Amy , loving wife to Ralph and mama to my two beautiful ladies Maggie, 7/05 and River, 7/07
surfamy is offline  
Old 02-25-2009, 04:09 AM
 
JenLiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bay Area/Northern California
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i think you can't convince you toddler to stop, it's in their nature=== it's automatic I think. So....

we do most of our nursing in bed now (nap time and night time) and when I have had enough of the twiddling i ask her if she wants "the other milk" (knowing she'll say yes) and I switch to where I'm side lying still, but the bottom boob she WAS nursing from is now against the mattress and i lean in toward her so now she's nursing from the top boob. make sense? then, she has nothing to twiddle and helps her fall asleep.
JenLiz is offline  
Old 02-25-2009, 11:31 AM
 
BellaClaudia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
my dd is just the same.. it kicked in at certain age and it was VERY IMPORTANT for her... nowdays I can trade touching the other boob with playing with my sleve of the hand that is not supporting the head..

so.. I used to be uspet too and tried to stop it but I red so many posts of people that had the same issue and I figured that if every baby practically does it then it must be some sort of preprogrammed need and it must mean something to them.

I tend to think that it is associated with either self comforting and keeping busy or increasing milk production.. as might stimulate something somwere and actually increase either milk flow or cause let down in the other boob having it ready when she changes boobs.. or
is it really just a comforting issue I don't know..

but untill some 3 or so she would just be tremendously upset if I would not let her do it so sometimes I gave up but asked to be rrrrrrrrrreaaly gentle with it and only a little bit.. so that did the trick and then she played with something else.

I really think that they really need to do this and they really can't help it.
it is one of those things that nature put for a reason.. we just don't know why. so till then it is worth of compromise as it might be actually serving some purpose that we are not aware and interfeareing or altogether cutting off the procedure might do some damage to their ego?

jsut don't know.
BellaClaudia is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 02:49 AM
 
PTmorgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: north of Denver, CO
Posts: 281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Boy, I can sympathize! DS is 21 months old, and I'm 30 weeks pregnant with #2. I can't stand his twiddling, and he's been doing it ever since I got pregnant. I have to have my forearm or hand planted over my other breast - that's the only way I can get through it. He still fights to get his hand under mine every day, but not every nursing.

I had never thought about having the twiddling do something to milk letdown. As soon as I became pregnant, my milk supply dried up almost overnight even though DS was nursing 6-8 times/day.

: DS - June '07 : DS2 - May '09 : (may be delayed a really long time!)
PTmorgan is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 04:40 AM
 
joyfulgrrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamieCole View Post
Oh boy...that visual made me :
It certainly feels like they must have eight arms when they are determined to get their twiddle on, huh?

Thanks so much for the advice and commiseration mamas...I never realized this was so common with toddlers. Guess I just have to keep on keeping on with being consistent and eventually he'll stop. Until then, I just have to hope we continue to avoid the pleading to touch my "udda boob" in public. Can't imagine the looks I would get over that one.

I think it's so funny that you still believe he'll stop. Based on my experience with my DD.....it just isn't going to happen. Toddlers/preschoolers are unbelievably persistent. I've removed my DD's hand from the boob 300,000 times and she still tries EVERY TIME. I'm loving this thread, it's very reassuring!
joyfulgrrrl is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 12:37 PM
 
Tizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
DS2 started this about a month ago? It's very uncomfortable for me and he's not old enough to understand when I explain why he shouldn't. So I keep the opposite side covered up. It's worst at night when both sides are accessible, so I just keep the blanket covering one side and that seems to deter him. I'd like to nip this before it becomes a habit.

DH and I - totally winging life with our four children, DS1 (6.5yrs), DS2 (5yrs), DD (3yrs) and DS3 (1)!

Tizzy is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 08:23 PM
 
HippieWannaBe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnMomma View Post
HUGS!!!

We are so there too! DS is 19 mo and is a pain in the butt about it! He just will not stop! If it's not the other boob, it's the belly button digging, if I cover that up, he finds a skin tag that I have and tugs on that. It's infuriating.

And if I hold one hand, the other creeps up out of nowhere. He's like an octopus. Or one of those giant squids you see in old pirate movies with tentacles all over swallowing a ship. That's what it feels like to me.
Oh my goodness, this had my cracking up! My son digs in my belly button too and has almost pulled off my mole. He is such a little picker/pocker it's not even funny.
HippieWannaBe is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off