Weaning to cow's milk, formula, nothing, other? - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-05-2005, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I apologize if this is not the right forum--couldn't figure out where to put it. Feel free to move it if necessary.

My DD is 12.5 months. I switched to pumping exclusively at 6 months because of her bubble palate, which made nursing horribly painful, no matter what (latch was fine, but this is a known issue with this kind of palate).

I am now beginning the weaning process. Please don't flame me or try to convince me otherwise. Trust me, I am a big believer in CLW...but EPing is extremely difficult with a mobile toddler and it has taken a herculean effort to get this far. I pump for up to 4 hours a day right now, and I need to take some of this time back. I do plan to keep pumping for a while longer, but will cut back to probably twice a day.

Here's my question. I am stumped as to what "white liquid," if any, to use to replace breastmilk in DD's diet. She eats solids very well, but takes in probably 20 oz of EBM and 4-6 oz of formula (one small bottle--I have never been able to pump quite enough no matter how hard I tried) per day. Once I reduce pumping, I expect I'll get maybe 8-12 oz of EBM a day. Eventually-- not sure when, but probably in the next 3-6 months--I'll cut out pumping entirely.

I really just don't know what to "replace" the lost EBM with. Part of me really thinks it would make sense to replace it with formula. I know we all hate formula, but really, it is closer to BM than cows' milk, right?-- and I do believe a child should be receiving breastmilk at this age, ideally. Also, she takes formula fine, but isn't really crazy about cows' milk, though she is getting better about it.

Or do I go crazy pushing cows' milk? I know it has some good stuff in it. But I question how necessary it really is, KWIM? I see all these "minimum ounces per day of milk" numbers and I feel skeptical.

It seems the other option would be to replace it mostly with water and to watch her diet carefully. She eats a wonderful variety of food and consumes a lot of cheese and broccoli, so she has a decent calcium source in her diet now. I do know moms who have weaned around 12-16 months and done this--not bothered with really pushing the WCM. This goes against the "establishment" opinion, but hmmm, do I care? Is milk that great, really?

I think there is really a lack of information out there on this subject. If we believe that toddlers should be getting breastmilk, then do we believe that weaned toddlers should we getting a breastmilk substitute? What would you do in my shoes?

grateful mother to DD, 1/04, and DS, 2/08

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Old 02-05-2005, 04:59 PM
 
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Old 02-05-2005, 08:09 PM
 
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I second formula until two, I think there is even something called "follow-up" formula now intended for toddlers, I know there are people who make their own formula too which seems to be more nutritious than the store bought stuff. Dairy seems to give my dd excema so we cut it out of her diet maybe we'll tryto introduce it again after she weans but for now her body doesn't seem to care for it.

best of luck
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Old 02-05-2005, 10:41 PM
 
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I too would give the formula. And I would still hold her with her cupt or bottle while she had it just as you would with a bf-ing toddler so she is getting the mommy contact, and the attachment.. It gives you a chance to slow down and just hold her too..

I know at our Co-op they also sell organic formula as well.. Best of Luck..

Warm Squishy Feelings..
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Old 02-06-2005, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the opinions. I am curious whether you would go with formula because you think cows' milk is not a good food for toddlers (she tolerates it fine, fwiw--this babe does really well with all kinds of food) or because you think the formula is necessary nutritionally.

I know I have read somewhere that the follow-up formula is more of a marketing ploy than anything and that it is very high in corn syrup solids, which seems questionable.

ah wait--just found what Dr. Sears says about it:

Quote:
FOLLOW-UP FORMULAS
A new trend in artificial baby milk, popular in Europe and now on the shelves in U.S. supermarkets, is formula designed for the infant older than six months and are meant to be a bridge between regular formula and cow's milk, which should not be introduced until some time after age one. Two questions arise about follow-up formulas: are they nutritious and are they necessary? The rationale for follow-up formulas is that the nutritional needs of infants greatly increase after the age of six months (especially for calcium, iron, and protein), and some infants may have difficulty meeting these increased requirements with greater volumes of standard formula, plus solid foods. The following discussion concerns Carnation Follow-up Formula. Here are the advantages and disadvantages of follow-up formula.

Advantages:

Contains more calcium. From six months to a year the RDA for calcium in infants increases by fifty percent, from 400 milligrams to 600 milligrams. Carnation Follow-up formula contains 600 milligrams of calcium in 24 ounces. It would take 39 ounces a day of standard formula to meet these calcium requirements.
Contains more iron. From six to twelve months a baby's daily iron requirements increase from six milligrams to ten milligrams a day. This extra iron could be supplied in 26 ounces of follow-up formula or 27 to 33 ounces of standard formula, so there isn't a great advantage to the follow-up formula here.
Contains more protein. From six to twelve months an infant requires an extra three to four milligrams of protein a day. Follow-up formulas contain from 10 to 25 percent more protein. A baby would need an extra three to eight ounces of standard formula per day to get this extra protein.
Costs less. The cost is around 20 percent less than the price of regular formula.
May taste better. Because it is basically milk, it tastes more like milk.
Disadvantages:

Casein/whey ratio different from human milk. Basically, Carnation Good Start Follow-up is like the older version of Similac: 82 percent casein and 18 percent whey, plus calcium and a newer fat blend.
Sweetened with corn syrup. The rationale for replacing lactose in the milk with corn syrup is to get it to taste sweeter. In our opinion, using corn syrup as the prime milk-carbohydrate source in an infant under a year is nutritionally unwise. Besides insuring proper nutrition, one of the main goals in feeding an infant over six months is to shape young tastes toward the normal taste of fresh foods. Corn syrup is a sweetener and certainly shouldn't be part of a food babies eat several times each day. Our conclusion: we do not recommend follow-up formulas that contain corn syrup. They are nutritionally unwise and unnecessary. Better to give your baby a higher volume of standard formula (growing babies need more fluid anyway), plus calcium and iron-containing solid foods.
Hmmm.

We can't afford the organic follow-up formulas--they are very pricey. Actually, it's an open question as to how well we can afford to give formula all day every day for the next year.

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Old 02-06-2005, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ah, and just found this on Sears' site:

Quote:
At present it would seem prudent to continue giving your baby iron-fortified formula during the second year of life and very gradually wean him to dairy products, beginning with yogurt. If your toddler generally has a balanced diet and routine hemoglobin tests show that he is not even close to being anemic, then switch from formula to whole milk sometime during the second year, but don't be in a hurry.
Very interesting. How come no one is saying this in the broader media? Everyone I know with FF babies switches to WCM promptly at one year, and the moms I knew who breastfed for a year-ish and then weaned, none of them use formula. I think it would be anathema to them.

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Old 02-06-2005, 05:33 PM
 
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This is interesting. Everything I've read says to go to whole cow's milk at 1-year. Hmmm.... What about Goat's milk? I have heard that is much easier to digest than cow's milk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc
Ah, and just found this on Sears' site:

Very interesting. How come no one is saying this in the broader media? Everyone I know with FF babies switches to WCM promptly at one year, and the moms I knew who breastfed for a year-ish and then weaned, none of them use formula. I think it would be anathema to them.

Mom of (11/27/03) and (9/29/06).
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Old 02-06-2005, 06:03 PM
 
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Why? that is a good question.
when we went to our 1 yr well baby visit the Dr asked if he wa son whole milk yet, i was like, uhm , no...
I learn something here every day and I feel so stupid. I use the follow up Enfamil Prosobee formula (soy) ( i was not able to breastfeed,long story, i tried!) because i thought having more calcium, protein, etc would be better. It is hard to get him to drink as much as he did just a few mths ago, so a stronger formula seemed to make more sense to me.
Darn those Corn Syrup solids!
We have started using 3/4 formula to 1/4 soy milk. Now we are 1/2 formula to 1/2 soymilk. It is the kind with added vitamin a, etc.. "fortified". What is anyone's opinion on soy milk?

I dont want to do cow's milk for as long as i can hold out w/o fussing with DH.

thanks for the info!

Amy
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Old 02-06-2005, 07:40 PM
 
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I think that unless your baby is eating a lot and a wide variety of healthy foods, she's not going to get all the nutrients she needs from food and cow's milk. Cow's milk has or vitamins. Breastmilk and formula have 20-30 (not sure how many).

Midwife (CPM, LDM) and homeschooling mama to:
14yo ds   11yo dd  9yo ds and 7yo ds and 2yo ds  
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:18 PM
 
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If I were you, I might try the organic formula, and then give the baby water at other times, so the formula won't seem as expensive. Conventional formula contains sugar, and either soy or milk as a base and both are not very good for developing bodies. I've heard that if there is too much of either in childrens diets, they tend to start puberty way earlier. Scary, IMO.

Get your baby used to drinking good pure water ASAP.

Milk creates mucus and is meant for baby cows, not humans. I've also heard that homogenized milk creates arterial deposits at ANY AGE. I'd steer clear of non-organic milk, especially homogenized. I've also heard that baby cows that are given pastuerized milk will die, if their diet is not supplemented with anything else.

When I got pregnant, my toddler nursed though the pregnancy without any problems. I did have a low supply, though. And gave her organic goats milk instead of my boob, occationally. Goats milk is much better than cows milk because it has way more minerals in it becasue goats eat a lot of different plants then cows do. Also, there is a higher fat percentage in goat milk, and it's constitution is closer to that of human milk, than cows milk is to human milk.

HTH
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:17 PM
 
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My DS1 was formula fed (no bm in me -- long story, but trust me it hurt to the depths of my soul and still does). I gave him formula through age 2 mostly b/c he was such a skinny boy, all skin and bones. I gradually started mixing cow's milk with formula and by age 2 he was drinking cow's milk. He never had any issues with dairy. He would only drink in warm from a bottle, so today he does not drink milk period.

If I had to do it over again I think I would still hold onto the formula and by 18 months have him on organic cow's milk (b/c I think organic cow's milk is better than non-organic formula for which the $$ outways the benefit after age 1). As the health food store owner said, "even if the dairy farms are more like factory farms, if the label is USDA organic, then it is better than the other stuff."

There is quite a bit of hooray about raw milk (that is organic) these days. I haven't had time to look into it myself. I do understand that raw milk holds more nutrients than pasterized homogenized organic milk. However, my dh had a problem with raw milk as a child and asked me about the organic milk I started bring into the house. I don't know what was wrong with it but he said he got sick from it, stomach ache type thing.

I want my DD to drink milk. I don't know if this is some preconcieved notion of what is necessary in life or what. My DS2 does not drink or eat dairy products, he is health as a horse. He stopped nursing at age 14 1/2 months when I was unexpectantly pregnant with DD. He never would drink EBM or any other form of milk -- rice, almond, oat, formula, soy, chocolate, strawberry, pediasure -- I tried them all.

So if all else fails, I'm sure with a carefully planned diet your dd will be fine. I try to make sure my kids get sunlight for at least 30 minutes every other day for Vit D. I also try to make sure they are getting calcium from other sources. I did supplement DS2 w a liquid calcium from the health food store.

Best to you.
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amybw
What is anyone's opinion on soy milk?

Amy
Soy contains plant estogens and these have been know to affect humans in negative ways. Estogren (the female hormone) is not good for developing boys.

Mothering had an excellent article on soy a few issues back.
http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...soy_story.html

I use rice milk for my ds2 on his cereal, he won't drink it. And darn it I thought I was doing a good thing by using soy formula for ds1 (unable to bf).
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:59 PM
 
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I use rice milk too. Seems like the best thing for us (in our family), cause it's hypoallergenic, tastes yummy, and has calcium and other nutrients added to it.

extra estrogen is not good for either boys or girls.
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Old 02-07-2005, 11:29 PM
 
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We asked our ND the question of cow's milk when my niece weaned from formula. He said there's not really any need for it. Humans are the only mammals that give their children milk after they've weaned from the breast. That said, I've also been told by my chiropracter that goat's milk is the closest to human breast milk. Or if you want to go with formula, both enfamil and similac make a formula for older babies.

Jessica, mama to Emma, 7, Mattie, 5.5 and Lilly, 3 and someone new this Halloween-ish.

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Old 02-08-2005, 12:11 AM
 
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Most people wean to regular cow's milk at one year not for health reasons, but for financial reasons. Cows milk (even organic) is much, much cheaper than formula.

I would definately go with a milk product. Probably cows, goats or (if you can find it) high fat soy. While I consider rice milk to be a good choice for adults, it is (virtually) impossible to find it in a high fat variety. Kids NEED the extra fat from bmilk until at least two--- if they aren't getting it there (bmilk) they need another good steady source.

 

 

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Old 02-08-2005, 12:12 AM
 
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We asked our ND the question of cow's milk when my niece weaned from formula. He said there's not really any need for it. Humans are the only mammals that give their children milk after they've weaned from the breast.
But other mammals very rarely wean prematurely (in humans, that would be under 2-2.5 years) from the breast and when they do the offspring generally die.

 

 

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Old 02-08-2005, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I see that I am getting quite a variety of opinions! And I don't wonder. The issue seems far from simple to me.

Quote:
Cows milk (even organic) is much, much cheaper than formula.
Actually, the difference is not as much as you might think. I can get organic cows' milk for about 5 cents per ounce. I can get Target brand formula for about 7 cents an ounce (once mixed).

I might consider goats' milk. Dr Sears has some info on that as well. But I'm not convinced that the difference is significant.

We are not opposed to milk and dairy products, and she has no problems with digesting them. So far the only food she shows any sensitivity to is citrus.

grateful mother to DD, 1/04, and DS, 2/08

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Old 02-08-2005, 01:58 AM
 
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Sorry if I was misunderstood... I don't recommend rice milk for little babies, but I give it to my 2 year old in a sippy cup sometimes, and all the rest of the family uses it on their cereal, etc (except my 7 MO, of course).
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:53 PM
 
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Goats milk is a great option.
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Old 02-08-2005, 02:05 PM
 
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I just wanted to say for pumping and making the breastmilk option available this long! WTG!

I have no opinion on formula/milk/whatever. My dd is still nursing a bit but we began her on a bm/cows milk mix at about a year for daycare. I stopped pumping on her 1 yr birthday. Pumping is really hard on mom, IMO.

Kristin -- mom of Erin (11/5/02) and Leah (9/29/05)
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Old 02-09-2005, 03:09 AM
 
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Firstly, from one EPer to another, congratulations for making it this far. I EP'd for 15 mos (recently stopped due to pregnancy), and it is an incredible feat that no one but us EPers can understand. Good for you!!!

I understand your problem perfectly, except my dd hardly ate any solids at 12 mos (and still doesn't really). My advice? Wean to infant[/U] formula.

Follow-up formulas are too sweet and do not have the milk protein broken down like infant formulas do. Infant formulas do have slightly more fat and less calcium, but I say don't worry about the fat and it sounds like your little one is getting enough calcium through diet.

It is best to keep from introducing milk until two years old (cheese and yogurt are cultured differently, so continue to offer these) and the complete whole nutrition of formula is good insurance for these vital developing years. Most of all, you want to be sure your child gets a good daily source of DHA, the fat responsible for optimum brain and nerve development. The brain is laying the "connectors" in the first two years that will last your child's entire life, and it needs this DHA for that proper development. DHA is readily offered now in more formulas (look for it) and is extremely difficult to get in the diet otherwise (purified cod liver oil is a good source, though).

Cow's milk and goat's milk do not contain DHA. MM and formula do. I chose DHA fortified infant formula for my toddler for this reason and I intend to continue until she is 2.

Again, congrats on the pumping. You are awesome!
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Old 02-09-2005, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much, Avery's mom and kerc! EPing is so flipping hard. I feel guilty for wanting to stop, but it has taken so much out of me, and it has taken a toll on my family as well. Like you, Avery's mom, I can't wait to have another one and have a good nursing relationship (ours has been so hard and full of pain and tears).

So far I think I am planning on keeping her on the infant formula a while longer. Opinions on the follow-up stuff seem mixed. I may add goats' milk or organic cows milk to the mix later on.

It's funny because I think as a supplementer, I see this totally differently than the typical mom who BFs till 12 months and then weans.

grateful mother to DD, 1/04, and DS, 2/08

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Old 02-09-2005, 04:59 PM
 
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I just wanted to give you another applause
My pp on this thread was short, and I did't take the extra second to comment on that. It takes an unbelievable amount of dedication to accomplish what you have! Once you've been giving the best for so long, it's a tough choice to figure out what to move to...I can understand your feeling "guilty" for wanting to stop (it's a Mom thing ), I hope you can move past that. You have gone above and beyond.
Good luck, I know you'll find something out of all of these choices that works for your family.
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Old 02-12-2005, 10:03 PM
 
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I personally would look at the individual nutrients listed on the labels of milk and formula that you think are needed, and then use foods to achieve those nutrients.

Personally, although I'm fully addicted to cow's milk myself, I see nothing of value in it for anyone but a baby cow. The A and D are *added* to it, Earthsave says that the calcium found in milk is more than completely used by digesting the animal protein in the serving of milk (and so there's no calcium at the end of it and the drinker ends up with less calcium than before drinking the milk)...I just see nothing faboo about cow's milk. Unless you're a baby cow.

Don't know about goat's milk, though my mom tried to get us to drink it when we were little and we refused.

Raw cow's milk tastes better than regular cow's milk. But it's hard to find.

IMO if one is worried about the estrogens in soy, what's the info on estrogens in cow's milk?

I once heard that rat's milk is actually the closest to human milk. But bleah, you think pumping yourself is hard! Gosh that visual makes me giggle...pumping a herd of rats...

Rice milk makes me itch so I can't really speak about it. :

All that to say again, I'd look at all that they add to cow's milk, look at the nutrients put in formula by the nutritionists that come up with formula's formula, and figure out if there's a way to give her that in non-liquid food. Hope my thoughts help.
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Old 02-16-2005, 02:42 PM
 
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Just want to point out that the concept that soy is bad because of estrogen is very flawed. Many generations of Asians have been raised on soy with no ill effects as were three generations of Americans who live on "The Farm" in Tennasee (sp?), home of midwife Ina May Gaskin (this community eats a soybased diet). The article that was in Mothering flaming soy was terribly, terribly flawed and written by someone affiliated financially with the american dairy industry. My mother is a vegan cookbook author who thrives on researching soy and I'd be happy to pass on her extensive list of scientific studies that disprove the "extra estrogen" theory about soy. Please don't be afraid to feed soy to your children...it has tremendous benefits.

I'm not a vegan or vegetarian pushing a soy agenda (quite the carnivore in fact), just don't like soy getting a bad name
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Old 02-16-2005, 02:57 PM
 
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The article written in mothering was someone affiliated financially with the american dairy industry??? Really? Do you have proof?

I have the same blood type as the majority of Asians (B), and I find that I can't eat soy products. Miso is fine, but tofu makes me super tired and feeling depleted, KWIM? I think the article I read in mothering about soy confimed my feelings that I already had about it.

You can send me the pro-soy info to [email protected]
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