Bail out-What are you stocking up on III--support group - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by StacyL View Post
With all due respect, I think you underestimate how quickly things can turn on a dime, and how that would directly impact your daily existence.

And I am not even talking about WORST CASE SCENARIO.

It's really simple:

If the banking system is put on a "holiday" to slow the panic, if you do not happen to have gas in your car, and some stored in your shed, groceries in your house and stored, and cash on hand IN YOUR HOME you will not be able to:

-get to work if you still have a job

-go to the grocery store to buy food

-won't be able to buy said groceries or gas if you have no cash. All transactions will be cash only.

-won't be able to pay your bills (no cash, and no access to your money)

Then what happens next is the supply chain for EVERYTHING begins to break down, leading to shortages of food and gas, which will thereby drive up the prices of what's available assuming you can even find some!

You should read this:

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/
Yeah just like Argentina. Hey I'm reading the same thing! Kinda scary when he says IMMINENT!!!!! I have to tell hubby to fill up on gas on his way home from work. I do believe it's coming fast too.

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#62 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:35 PM
 
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Oh my mother grew up shooting squirrels for food--in rural Washington, 60 years ago. Discharging firearms for any purpose in a city setting is quite a different idea.

It's not that I have some elitist idea that foraging for food is undignified or something, it's that it's a kind of far out and ridiculous option for a large bulk of the population, and imagining a scenario in which one really would be walking around downtown Seattle, or Minneapolis, or San Diego shooting squirrels for meat is kind of...out there.
I know people in my town (hey, we have a large university, mall, and all that, not a major metro area, but not podunk, either) that set squirrel traps! You don't have to shoot it to eat it It's nice to know that option is there because the price of meat recently has me : I've tried to be vegetarian and it is very, very bad for me physically (I have a chronic immune disorder).

All the more reason for those in major metro areas to make sure they have emergency kits, including food and water, for every member of the family. I believe my state recommends a 14 day supply for each person because we live in an earthquake zone. :

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#63 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:35 PM
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Well I'm a daycare provider. If my daycare parents loose their jobs our income will be cut in half. DH is in law enforcement with 12 years seniority, so his job is probably safe. Recently I went 3 months without pay because California didn't have a state budget and most of my daycare kids are state subsidized. I don't know if there will be a food shortage. I'm more worried about the unemployment rate. If I hadn't always been a stockpiler my family would have starved and I would have had to shut my daycare down....making my financial situation even worse that it allready was. Being able to keep my daycare open, I did eventually start getting paid again once the budget was signed. I even got back pay for the time there wasn't a budget. Those 85 or so days without a state budget caused many daycares in my community to go out of business. I certainly was an economic crisis for those families involved (providers and daycare parents).
If your clients are state subsidized, wouldn't they still continue to receive subsidies while looking for work?
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#64 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:38 PM
 
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This is a book I've been considering.http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Cou...9123680/?itm=1

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#65 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:40 PM
 
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Ever used dandelion? I've heard it is delicious cooked. There was an article a few months ago in Mother Earth News about dandelion recipes.
Yup! We eat dandelion fresh here, mixed in with salads. It's sooo good for you, abundant and free, and tastes good too. Chickweed too!


And also someone noted earlier about pine needle tea. This is another thing we commonly do here in the South. It has excellent absorbable vitamin C.
I think a great skill in hard times (and even not) is to be able to walk around outside and tell what plant life is around you and their purposes.

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Ok, so laundry going and kids fed...

I have always wanted one of those hand crank light/radio set ups for power outages. I have other things I need to spend my money on right now but I'll wait and see what you think of the one you bought.
This is on our stock up list too. My Papa and MIL have one and they are just a great thing to have.

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Hmmm... for some reason, I thought people were talking about preparing for possible food/money shortages... not exactly famine, which would leave all of us gardeners out anyway... aren't most famines weather related?

And I really do want to say something (again) about "foraging." It may be hard to understand, if you've never lived in the country, or never been poor, or, or, or... but there are MANY people who "forage" for food. Whether it is hunting, wild-berry picking, or eating weeds. I'm honestly getting a few good laughs over here because I'll have the joy of eating fresh, wild paw-paws next weekend, and some are scoffing at the idea, thinking I'm some kind of nutter. What in the world is wrong with eating wild? What is wrong with herbal medicine? What is wrong with wanting to increase knowledge? What is wrong with wanting to prepare for economic or natural emergencies?

I really don't get it. As someone who grew up poor, yeah, food and shelter are my main priorities. You should try doing without them sometime, then look at your kids and say "well, babe, we'll be the first to go."
ITA about foraging. Reading these threads, I am sorta glad in a way that I come from GA and understand some things about the land. Thank goodness really! People around here already hunt and garden and gather and have chickens and goats, etc. My neighbor used to eat squirrel due to poverty. I am already connected in a network of folks to make things, etc. We already trade and I know in hard times this will continue.

As some of ya'll know, we are actually in the process of downsizing and moving OFF the land and into the city. We will have gardening space available to us if need be and are close with lots of farmers, so I know if I needed a plot, I could easily trade my labor for it and heirloom seed. But it is feeling important to me right now to cut my bills in 1/3 by living in a small space. It is also feeling important to be on the bus line, and within walking distance to family, friends, the library, gov't buildings, etc. Anyone else out there feeling this, or am I alone on this one?

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#66 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by StacyL View Post
With all due respect, I think you underestimate how quickly things can turn on a dime, and how that would directly impact your daily existence.

And I am not even talking about WORST CASE SCENARIO.

It's really simple:

If the banking system is put on a "holiday" to slow the panic, if you do not happen to have gas in your car, and some stored in your shed, groceries in your house and stored, and cash on hand IN YOUR HOME you will not be able to:

-get to work if you still have a job

-go to the grocery store to buy food

-won't be able to buy said groceries or gas if you have no cash. All transactions will be cash only.

-won't be able to pay your bills (no cash, and no access to your money)

Then what happens next is the supply chain for EVERYTHING begins to break down, leading to shortages of food and gas, which will thereby drive up the prices of what's available assuming you can even find some!

You should read this:

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/
Hmm, maybe - although in my personal case, I am already living like this in most respects; I can't afford gas, and can't buy a whole lot of food, so I take the bus or walk to work/school, and know how to make a little food stretch a long way. Who is the person who writes the blog you linked?
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#67 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:42 PM
 
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One question for all sceptics; is the fact that people are nervous about the future upsetting you? Is it a threat to you somehow? Is it shaking your idea that the world can and will be secure no matter what? Does it help relieve that stress by insulting people who are nervous?

I personally would rather have half the town (or all of it) stocking up on extras now in case something really bad did happen then do nothing hoping that nothing will happen. Even if they didn't share anything at least the population would feel that much more secure and that security would prevent many problems that could otherwise occur.
Nope, stockpiling is not worrying me. But, I am nervous about what happens when more and more people panic. What happens then? I'm not worried so much about the economy... it's tough times but it will straiten out. I'm nervous about human behavior.

Now, I have a question to everyone stocking up, and not just in case you lose a drastic amount of income. I can totally understand that kind of stocking up. I find it to be relatively normal. I myself tend to keep a bit of extra pasta, sauce, tp and paper towels on hand just in case we have something unexpected come up and are a bit short on grocery money.

My question- to those that aren't just stocking up a bit here and there in case of job loss- is what do you feel is going to happen? Another depression? Do you think that will be worse than the great depression? And if so, if you lose your home what good will your stock pile do then?

I'm not trying to offend anyone- just honestly curious.

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#68 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:47 PM
 
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In our case we have family that own their home and land outright and are nearby so we would end up living together and sharing our resources.

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#69 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:48 PM
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It is also feeling important to be on the bus line, and within walking distance to family, friends, the library, gov't buildings, etc. Anyone else out there feeling this, or am I alone on this one?
We feel this way and recently moved within walking distance to many things. Also, my husband got a job a year ago with the county government. We live in one of the most heavily funded counties in the nation and the whole entire government would have to collapse (which I am not expecting at all) or dh would have to show up drunk (which is even more unlikely ) for him to lose his job -- even though the money was a paycut, it is extremely secure. That is why I have the luxury of not feeling the need to stockpile for months upon months -- mostly just weeks (until the next paycheck, because they will find a way to pay dh's department since it is such a *needed* department).

I also believe bartering will have a future -- maybe not in mainstream but definitely black market -- I saw the footage of people throwing paper money into their fires during wwII (in Germany mostly) because it seriously was.not.worth. anything more than kindling because Hitler kept printing it to keep funding his efforts (among other things). We aren't exactly printing more money as we are selling off parts of our country to places like China in the form of treasury bonds that we should all be praying don't get cashed in anytime soon.

When your national debt calculator near Times Square runs out of spaces for digits and you have to remove the dollar sign to make room... that is not only scary to me, but telling.
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#70 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:51 PM
 
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As some of ya'll know, we are actually in the process of downsizing and moving OFF the land and into the city. We will have gardening space available to us if need be and are close with lots of farmers, so I know if I needed a plot, I could easily trade my labor for it and heirloom seed. But it is feeling important to me right now to cut my bills in 1/3 by living in a small space. It is also feeling important to be on the bus line, and within walking distance to family, friends, the library, gov't buildings, etc. Anyone else out there feeling this, or am I alone on this one?
I can completely understand this. I moved from the suburbs (where I had lived my whole life) to the country a year and a half ago, in an attempt to live a more self sufficient life. Rural living, the way most people including myself do it, is much more dependent on oil (gasoline) than living in the city or suburbs. We can't walk anywhere, we have to drive long distances for shopping, entertainment, education and employment. I love where we live, but I do understand the appeal of living in town.

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#71 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:52 PM
 
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Ok-
Karl Denninger http://www.denninger.net/ is a Former CEO of MCSNet in Chicago, now trading the capital markets for a living
http://www.youtube.com/user/kdenninger

To grniys
I am stocking up not because I am afraid of losing my house or of my husband losing his job. But in case of our market and economy shutting down, there will at least be a slowdown and at most-complete halting of delivery of goods-namely food and fuel-to local stores. I want to have some food to be able to hold us over till things settle down.

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#72 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:53 PM
 
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These are good general food storage tips that everyone should follow. http://www.trackmyfoodstorage.com/ar...eid=4&zoneid=1

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#73 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:55 PM
 
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My question- to those that aren't just stocking up a bit here and there in case of job loss- is what do you feel is going to happen? Another depression? Do you think that will be worse than the great depression? And if so, if you lose your home what good will your stock pile do then?

I'm not trying to offend anyone- just honestly curious.
I do think there will be another great depression. No idea if it will be worse than the previous depression. As for losing my house, if that happens I will take my stockpiled items with me. If we can't afford another home of our own, we'd probably move in with relatives. All of my older relatives have large homes that are paid off.

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#74 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:56 PM
 
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I've always wanted to live in the country but I think I have a good set up now. A good sized lot in a small town with room for a garden and storage and within walking distance to needed things. I live in a good tight knit community and I think that support, good friends and a good community are invaluable.

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#75 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 02:59 PM
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As of right now --


Dow 7,981.99-597.20 -6.96%
Nasdaq 1,543.16-101.96 -6.20%
S&P 842.94-66.98 -7.36%
Nikkei 225 (Tokyo) 8,276.43-881.06 -9.62%
FTSE 100 (London) 3,932.06 -381.74 -8.85%
DAX (Frankfurt) 4,544.31-342.69 -7.01%
TSX (Toronto) 9,002.26 -597.92 -6.23%

So, it is important to remember this is a *worldwide* problem, not just local, In the global economy, everything is linked together --

This thread is about "bail-out" what are you stocking up on ---- which I think is an important point: the bail-out was meant to restore investors' faith -- that was part of the whole point. Sure, we all realize the actual 700+ billions would physically take a while to be dispersed, "trickled down", to help stabilize -- but the actual bail-out was supposed to restore faith IMMEDIATELY so that *this* wouldn't be happening.

Guess it didn't work eh.
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#76 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:05 PM
 
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I'm on the Zero Pollution Motors email list and just got an update from them a few minutes ago. If you're not familiar, this is a company that is trying to mass produce a vehicle that runs on compressed air. According to the email the cars won't be in production until 2010. But if I had the money, this is something I might consider stocking up on
http://zeropollutionmotors.us/

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#77 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:08 PM
 
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I live in a good tight knit community and I think that support, good friends and a good community are invaluable.
This is what I am most thankful for these days.

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#78 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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I'm on the Zero Pollution Motors email list and just got an update from them a few minutes ago. If you're not familiar, this is a company that is trying to mass produce a vehicle that runs on compressed air. According to the email the cars won't be in production until 2010. But if I had the money, this is something I might consider stocking up on
http://zeropollutionmotors.us/
very cool.
we run our car on biodesiel and might be forming a coop here to start making our own. We are also considering selling our truck and getting a little moped instead

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#79 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:15 PM
 
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Here's an article about Safeway grocery store possibly failing, along with several other at-risk companies:

http://money.aol.com/investing/compa...540x1200630933
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#80 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:26 PM
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I hear people talking about electricity and clean water not being available...and about their stash of rice. No clean water, I guess we're making rice over a campfire (where? oh I guess in order to survive you need your own yard) with cholera water, nice.

It's this kind of juxtaposition that worries me, actually. It says to me that people are not being rational.
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Sorry this is sort of OT.. but I've been thinking about stockpiling, saving cash, etc. How do you balance that $-wise with other, non-essential things - I"m thinking about dd's dance class, her piano lessons, etc. I know we're doing pretty well to be able to afford those extras, but we've cut other things to be able to afford it. We have food to eat and to buy extra to set aside, but now I'm wondering if I should go ahead and pay $200 for dd's next session of piano lessons this coming Monday or use that to do more food stockpiling. It's such a fine line and I keep going back and forth....
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#82 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:34 PM
 
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I hear people talking about electricity and clean water not being available...and about their stash of rice. No clean water, I guess we're making rice over a campfire (where? oh I guess in order to survive you need your own yard) with cholera water, nice.

It's this kind of juxtaposition that worries me, actually. It says to me that people are not being rational.
You can use a camp stove or perhaps a solar oven on your apartment balcony. Assuming that you have a good place to put one, a solar oven is the smarter investment because it doesn't require any fuel (beyond the sun) to work. ETA: you can find instructions on how to make a solar oven on the internet for $10-20.

As for water, you can invest in a water purifier. At the very least, a gallon of bleach would disinfect a LOT of rain- or pondwater, adding a few drops of bleach for each gallon of water. If you do have the means to boil the water, it will kill bacteria in the water, although it won't remove polutants.

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#83 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:37 PM
 
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You can use a camp stove or perhaps a solar oven on your apartment balcony. Assuming that you have a good place to put one, a solar oven is the smarter investment because it doesn't require any fuel (beyond the sun) to work.

As for water, you can invest in a water purifier. At the very least, a gallon of bleach would disinfect a LOT of rain- or pondwater, adding a few drops of bleach for each gallon of water. If you do have the means to boil the water, it will kill bacteria in the water, although it won't remove polutants.
Speaking of which, I don't normally use bleach in the home but I might get a gallon for water purification, emergency use.

You can build a fire in your fireplace(!) if you have one, or even in a tall pot and rig up some kind of system to boil water if you don't have a place to make a traditional fire (i.e. outside, camp stove, solar oven, etc.)

But also, people who are stockpiling rice are are also stockpiling water or at least ways to purify collected water.

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#84 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:39 PM
 
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Folks with fireplaces should probably have them inspected before use if they don't use them presently.
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http://www.lehmans.com/jump.jsp?item...UCT&itemID=948

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/...0&CS_010=69486

Do you know what "fixed income" means? Well that's what we have. It's also such that when I have purchased food to last 30 days, there is absolutely no more money for food until next month, and when I have purchased clothing to last the winter, there is not money to purchase clothing again until the spring. It means that I can't afford to buy $200 toys on the fantastical speculation that we're all about to enter a bad sci fi novel. You'd be surprised how many people live this way. I guess we're walking ghosts in your fantasy of the collapse.

Anyhow, where do you get the water to purify if the supply has been cut off? I mean it doesn't rain THAT much, even in Portland. And it would take a couple days to walk down to the river and back.
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#86 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:47 PM
 
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Sorry this is sort of OT.. but I've been thinking about stockpiling, saving cash, etc. How do you balance that $-wise with other, non-essential things - I"m thinking about dd's dance class, her piano lessons, etc. I know we're doing pretty well to be able to afford those extras, but we've cut other things to be able to afford it. We have food to eat and to buy extra to set aside, but now I'm wondering if I should go ahead and pay $200 for dd's next session of piano lessons this coming Monday or use that to do more food stockpiling. It's such a fine line and I keep going back and forth....
I have been thinking of this too, as we have been remodeling an apt flat and purchasing things that are most certainly not necessary. I figure, enjoy spending the $$ on what I want in the here and now, *and* consider the future at the same time. I think your dd should enjoy her lessons while she has them. You are assisting her teacher in earning a living, and your dd's ed and experience may well last her a lifetime.

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#87 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:49 PM
 
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So what about the people who can't store food, either because of the expense or lack of space, or can't afford expensive survival gear/equipment? What will happen to those people? What if those people are your friends and neighbors?
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For me, I think that it might take a few days at least for public water to get cut off (I have city water) so as I was watching events unfold, I would fill my 2 (may get one more) 5-gal tanks w/water to use in addition to my other stockpiled water supplies. Plus I would fill my gigantic garden tub w/water. If you are on a well you should be good (if you have a way to get it out without electricity-manual pumps etc). My meager water supplies won't last long though, so I don't know, I would have to leave and go somewhere where there is a well w/manual pump I guess. Maybe a friends house, relatives? I couldn't rely on rain catchment either since the South is constantly in a drought. I would hope that the 'grid' would come back up by then and if not well then we are all in for it.


BTW I read somewhere how to build a solar oven for nearly free. Don't remember where though...you might want to google it if your concerned how you would need to boil water.

Living Simply and Enjoying Life
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#89 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by whalemilk View Post
Do you know what "fixed income" means? Well that's what we have. It's also such that when I have purchased food to last 30 days, there is absolutely no more money for food until next month, and when I have purchased clothing to last the winter, there is not money to purchase clothing again until the spring. It means that I can't afford to buy $200 toys on the fantastical speculation that we're all about to enter a bad sci fi novel. You'd be surprised how many people live this way. I guess we're walking ghosts in your fantasy of the collapse.
We are living paycheck to paycheck with *very few to no* extras, as a big part of our income was just slashed (in part to the economy). I don't buy like 15 bazillion cans of whatever or toys for years or whatever. I don't know where that is coming from. Everyone is at different places in their lives -- I am blessed I *can* afford to purchase an extra can here or there --of things I will use anyway -- or buy an extra when coffee is BOGO free (so I am getting four for the price of two). I buy things I *already use* (very important!!) when prices are way low, or I have mad coupons, or whatever -- I realize some people don't even have the means to do that.

If the SHTF the way some people are talking -- toys are sort of the least of my concern -- I can always make paper airplanes out of dollar bills

Children of all people have always found ways to entertain themselves in creative and awesome ways without me stockpiling Haba, so I agree on that -- but I didn't see a lot of that except for homeschooling books gotten on the cheap which I think can be smart if you didn't have the gas to get to a library or money to buy the books in the near future etc.
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#90 of 120 Old 10-10-2008, 03:50 PM
 
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Why would your water get shut off? I'm asking, not being cute.
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