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#61 of 108 Old 02-20-2009, 07:40 PM
 
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I have to acknowledge too, that for me to have all these conveniences, someone else must provide the services. And it tends to be those folks who are lower on the socioeconomic status pole who end up working the crummy hours, nights and holidays and such. So the result of all this increased convenience is that demands on time and family for some groups in society are greater. I always wonder whether we so badly need to shop 24 hrs a day in the week before Christmas that those employees at Walmart and Target and such should be forced to work all those hours. When stores closed on Sunday, there was no question that every family could count on having that day every week together. I've worked those jobs in the past (fast food and retail) so I have firsthand experience. Interestingly, my first retail job was at a store that *was* closed on Sunday and I loved that.
On the other hand how many families rely on someone to work evenings and weekends and it avoids the cost of childcare? Look, I don't think anyone needs to shop 24/7 but I see many families and even folks here at MDC where Mama needs to earn some cash and regular 9-5 with childcare costs would be cost prohibitive. On the other hand a Sat/Sun shift may bring in just enough cash to help make ends meet or save some money. So I see being open on Sundays as possibly a good thing. Not everyone who works these shifts is at the lower end of socioeconomic ladder, for some its a choice.

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#62 of 108 Old 02-20-2009, 07:46 PM
 
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I'd love it... and it wouldn't have to be Sunday.

Just one day of the week where we would all stop rushing around and consuming.

It initially took some adjusting, but when I was in France I loved how everything shut down for 2 hours at lunch and was closed Sunday and Monday. It just seems to allow a slower paced, higher quality of life where people appreciate the simple things more.

I think it's also very hard on the small business owners who cant afford to staff extra people and end up having to work 7 days a week. Bye bye small business ... hello Wal-Mart!

I was shocked to see a priest going in to the grocery store last Sunday. It reall has become the status quo.

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#63 of 108 Old 02-20-2009, 07:54 PM
 
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It could benefit those employees who want off Sundays but can't because their store is open and their boss says they have to work.
It also benefits mom and pop type stores because it's hard to compete with the long hours that the bigger stores can be open for. It gives them a way to have a day off without losing business. I was on a school field trip once to see some kind of legislation type thing in Canada (I was in middle school and I can't remember what it was, something in Toronto though) and they were debating changes to laws that said stores had to be closed on Sunday. That was the main argument we heard while we were there.

That being said, I like being able to shop when I want to and a lot of times that is on Sunday.

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#64 of 108 Old 02-20-2009, 07:55 PM
 
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I understand the expectation part, but I don't think it really holds weight.

Look at the Orthodox Jewish population - some are retail and blue collar, others are doctors and accountants and lawyers. ALL observe a Shabbat, different from the "mainstream" USofA and still manage to hold jobs down AND meet their family commitment.

If people are committed to finding a job that allows them and their family a rest, they can. Orthodox Jews have for thousands of years, through good times and bad. Whether the gov't orders a day off or not. And it would be nice, putting those places that don't allow their workers their day of rest out of business because they can't find workers. THAT would be the way to change society. From the family out - not the government in.


There really is no way to do a universal day of rest without discriminating against one or more religions. I'm a little shocked that anyone is proposing such a thing in this day and age.

ETA: In response to "It wouldn't have to be Sunday," when would it be? If it's Saturday, that discriminates against Muslims and most Christians. If it's Friday, that discriminates against Jews and all Christians. If it's a different day, Jews, Christians and Muslims all have an extra day when they can't work.
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#65 of 108 Old 02-20-2009, 08:36 PM
 
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See, for us it's not one day out of seven, but one day out of two. I simply cannot get everything I need to get done during the weekdays. I need for things to be open on Sundays.
Agreed. I work full time out of the home, M-F. I cannot shop in the evenings. Saturdays are full of schlepping the kids to their lessons. Sunday is the one time I have to shop and do errands.
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#66 of 108 Old 02-20-2009, 11:24 PM
 
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If people are committed to finding a job that allows them and their family a rest, they can. Orthodox Jews have for thousands of years, through good times and bad. Whether the gov't orders a day off or not. And it would be nice, putting those places that don't allow their workers their day of rest out of business because they can't find workers. THAT would be the way to change society. From the family out - not the government in.
There's the question I guess. Do people have enough power to make the stores/factories/businesses change? Or have the stores/factories/businesses become so powerful that they have forced the population to accept lousy work schedules, demanding hours, loss of holidays and sacrifice of religious observance b/c they feel they have no choice but to concede their lifestyles in order to have employment? I don't think the employees were the driving force that led to businesses being open all night or factories open on Sundays (or Saturdays if you prefer), etc. I suspect the driving force came from the business end of things, in the pursuit of greater profits. Can this be changed from the family out? Perhaps, but it would take a lot more unity of purpose among the employees. You can see it in religious communities b/c they do have that unity of purpose. But in the broader community, I expect it would not work out.

In any case, I wasn't suggesting the government get involved in regulating this. Back when I was a kid, stores didn't close b/c the law kept them from staying open, they closed b/c it was the norm and expected. It is true that it was expected b/c it was based on the religious tradition of the area, but it was not enforced against objection. It just was. And all I'm saying is that I miss the days when it "just was". I'll be honest and admit that I also would miss being able to go to the store and pick up milk on Sunday morning after church. Change generally doesn't come without some cost. You gain something, but often lose something at the same time.
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#67 of 108 Old 02-20-2009, 11:36 PM
 
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Religious origins aside, there's something to be said for allowing people (and communities) a rest. And for being able to postpone the fulfillment of desires that are not urgent. And for being free from the expectation that you have to be available all the time. And for the less obvious acknowledgment that the lives and needs of others have value too. There *is* a cost to individuals and society though. It's hard to put into words, but the change that has occurred has resulted in greater ease and convenience in many ways, but also in greater pressure and expectations and demands as well. It may be good in many ways, but it still comes with a cost.
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#68 of 108 Old 02-20-2009, 11:57 PM
 
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There's the question I guess. Do people have enough power to make the stores/factories/businesses change?

In any case, I wasn't suggesting the government get involved in regulating this. Back when I was a kid, stores didn't close b/c the law kept them from staying open, they closed b/c it was the norm and expected. It is true that it was expected b/c it was based on the religious tradition of the area, but it was not enforced against objection. It just was. And all I'm saying is that I miss the days when it "just was". .
What people? Clearly people want to shop on Sundays. If they didn't, they wouldn't. If enough people objected to Sunday shopping, it wouldn't be profitable for the stores, and they wouldn't stay open.

There are plenty of businesses that keep the traditional work week. If people really want to only work 9-5 M-F, jobs like that exist.

I don't want to be forced into a day of rest. I'll pick my own days of rest. It is no more restful for me to be forced to rest because everything is closed than it is for me to simply stay home. I have a sister who is fairly religious and she chooses not to shop on Sunday. Personally, I think it's odd, but it's also her choice. It doesn't seem to be a burden for her to stay home and yet not expect the rest of the population to conform to her religious beliefs.

Are you sure stores weren't open on Sundays when you were young simply because it was tradition? I'm almost 50. We absolutely had blue laws on the books when I was a kid which prevented stores from opening on Sundays. It was only after the blue laws were repealed that stores opened Sundays.
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#69 of 108 Old 02-20-2009, 11:58 PM
 
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Interestingly, my first retail job was at a store that *was* closed on Sunday and I loved that.
My first retail job was on Saturday mornings and Thursday nights because that's when young inexperienced people get to be tried out and earn money to pay for luxuries while they're studying.
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#70 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 12:08 AM
 
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There are plenty of businesses that keep the traditional work week. If people really want to only work 9-5 M-F, jobs like that exist.

.
Unfortunately, the pressure for extended hours is affecting many businesses, not just retail. I work in healthcare and there's all sorts of pressure to offer early morning hours, late evening hours, all night hours (other than ER), weekend hours, etc. And it's happening. Gradually, more and more "extended hours" are being added. If you look around, they're being added in other businesses as well. Great for the customers. Just as you said, if they didn't want to shop on Sunday, they wouldn't. And people will love having their physicals and their blood pressure checks on Saturday afternoon as well. But is it a good thing? Do all those nurses and lab techs and receptionists and pharmacists and doctors really need to be there round the clock and every single day? Is it really such a great thing? It's great when we want it. And when it serves our purposes. But on a society-wide basis, is it really so great for us to work 24/7 and expect every good and service to be available to us 24/7? Maybe the banks should be too? Accountants? Perhaps teachers should be available for parent-teacher conferences on weekends too, since I can't make weekdays. And my dentist? The kids would be able to go for a checkup and cleaning w/o missing school... Lawyers? They should work weekends and nights. Where would the list end? I'm being rather over-the-top, but I do think the trend is real. And I have very mixed feelings about it. How much do we want to give up ourselves in order to have all that convenience? As for blue laws, not as recent as my own youth (41) though I'm sure they existed in the past. Not *every* store was closed (hence obviously not against the law) but the majority of them were. Certainly enough that it was not expected by customers. Mom and Pop could close the shop for the day and not lose their customers.
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#71 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 12:42 PM
 
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And it tends to be those folks who are lower on the socioeconomic status pole who end up working the crummy hours, nights and holidays and such.
Dont forget nurses, doctors, police, ambulance, etc. No matter what those people will work seven days per week regardless of blue laws or whatever. I dont think any of those fall into the above.
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#72 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 01:04 PM
 
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Unfortunately, the pressure for extended hours is affecting many businesses, not just retail. I work in healthcare and there's all sorts of pressure to offer early morning hours, late evening hours, all night hours (other than ER), weekend hours, etc. And it's happening. Gradually, more and more "extended hours" are being added. If you look around, they're being added in other businesses as well. Great for the customers. Just as you said, if they didn't want to shop on Sunday, they wouldn't. And people will love having their physicals and their blood pressure checks on Saturday afternoon as well. But is it a good thing? Do all those nurses and lab techs and receptionists and pharmacists and doctors really need to be there round the clock and every single day? Is it really such a great thing? It's great when we want it. And when it serves our purposes. But on a society-wide basis, is it really so great for us to work 24/7 and expect every good and service to be available to us 24/7? Maybe the banks should be too? Accountants? Perhaps teachers should be available for parent-teacher conferences on weekends too, since I can't make weekdays. And my dentist? The kids would be able to go for a checkup and cleaning w/o missing school... Lawyers? They should work weekends and nights. Where would the list end? I'm being rather over-the-top, but I do think the trend is real. And I have very mixed feelings about it. How much do we want to give up ourselves in order to have all that convenience? As for blue laws, not as recent as my own youth (41) though I'm sure they existed in the past. Not *every* store was closed (hence obviously not against the law) but the majority of them were. Certainly enough that it was not expected by customers. Mom and Pop could close the shop for the day and not lose their customers.
My friends in health care with children love this, as do I. They also prefer to have their children in the care of a parent as much as possible over a third party. One friend whose husband is also in health care manages to have their (very young) son with a parent at all times and they both have Sunday off.

And when I needed to have an ultrasound when I was pregnant I would have preferred not to have my husband take time off work to look after our daughter.

Isn't this what family-friendly workplaces are all about? Flexible work schedules that accommodate various needs. And not having the supermarket mad busy on a saturday morning because every single person needs to do their shopping then.
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#73 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 01:16 PM
 
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Unfortunately, the pressure for extended hours is affecting many businesses, not just retail. I work in healthcare and there's all sorts of pressure to offer early morning hours, late evening hours, all night hours (other than ER), weekend hours, etc. And it's happening. Gradually, more and more "extended hours" are being added. If you look around, they're being added in other businesses as well. Great for the customers. Just as you said, if they didn't want to shop on Sunday, they wouldn't. And people will love having their physicals and their blood pressure checks on Saturday afternoon as well. But is it a good thing? Do all those nurses and lab techs and receptionists and pharmacists and doctors really need to be there round the clock and every single day? Is it really such a great thing? It's great when we want it. And when it serves our purposes. But on a society-wide basis, is it really so great for us to work 24/7 and expect every good and service to be available to us 24/7? Maybe the banks should be too? Accountants? Perhaps teachers should be available for parent-teacher conferences on weekends too, since I can't make weekdays. And my dentist? The kids would be able to go for a checkup and cleaning w/o missing school... Lawyers? They should work weekends and nights. Where would the list end? I'm being rather over-the-top, but I do think the trend is real. And I have very mixed feelings about it. How much do we want to give up ourselves in order to have all that convenience? As for blue laws, not as recent as my own youth (41) though I'm sure they existed in the past. Not *every* store was closed (hence obviously not against the law) but the majority of them were. Certainly enough that it was not expected by customers. Mom and Pop could close the shop for the day and not lose their customers.
You make some good points, on the other hand extended hours take into account not everyone works a 9-5 and to some degree has created greater work opportunities. Most certainly there are some negatives to extended hours but at the same time I keep thinking how for me personally the ability to teach night classes when my dd was small allowed me to be home with her during the day and not use daycare when she was early. It also allowed my students who were working adults to get an education and still support their families at the same time. There are many jobs that are now low end that offer later hours and for better opportunities to earn a living.

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Dont forget nurses, doctors, police, ambulance, etc. No matter what those people will work seven days per week regardless of blue laws or whatever. I dont think any of those fall into the above.
ITA w/this. Years ago I was the director of a homeless shelter and my day started between 2-3pm, personally I loved working at this time. It allowed me greater flexibility and better quality of life than a 9-5. Obviously that line of work is not geared towards 9-5.

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#74 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 01:18 PM
 
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Isn't this what family-friendly workplaces are all about? Flexible work schedules that accommodate various needs. And not having the supermarket mad busy on a saturday morning because every single person needs to do their shopping then.

Yes! You said this much better than I did (guess I need more coffee).

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#75 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 01:54 PM
 
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I live in Nova Scotia, and when we first moved here six years ago everything was closed on Sundays by law. Everything. It was extremely inconvenient and I hated it. It was such a relief when the laws changed.

I think family time is very important. Ours is to us. But not every family has to do it at the same damn time! Mandating a day off for everyone during the week is a terrific way to say "screw diversity" (which appears to be the Nova Scotia way).
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#76 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 02:07 PM
 
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I fail to see any reason for stores to be closed on Sundays. What would be the advantage? To make it next to impossible for most people to patronize their store?

If a store wants my business then they have nice long hours on weekends. That is when I have time to shop.
Chic Fil A is always closed on Sundays; it's a requirement of the whole chain, though not a state law.

They do have long hours the rest of the week and great service; the drive through could be wrapped around the building twice and you'd still be out of there in 5min. They are never short on business.

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#77 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 02:47 PM
 
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I have to say that as someone who used to work 70 hours a week, I really value being able to shop whenever I want to.

Or for those parents who have to go to the ER on a Sunday and then can't get their DC's meds until Monday.

Or for the Moms who SAH during the week and work after 6 or on weekends to earn a paycheck while their partners look after the kids.

I just think closing on Sunday is a bad idea, but I respect businesses who decide to, like Chick Fil A, because I don't think any business should be forced or not forced to be closed or open on any given day. I think it should be up to the owners.

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#78 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 02:51 PM
 
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I just think closing on Sunday is a bad idea, but I respect businesses who decide to, like Chick Fil A, because I don't think any business should be forced or not forced to be closed or open on any given day. I think it should be up to the owners.
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#79 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 08:21 PM
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I love shopping on Sundays. It's less crowded.

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#80 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 10:58 PM
 
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Gosh, I hate that things around here close at 9pm and 6pm on Sundays. I miss Seattle where the grocery stores were open 24 hours. I did a lot of shopping at 11:00pm.

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#81 of 108 Old 02-21-2009, 11:05 PM
 
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I don't think a day off is a bad idea. I just dislike the idea that Sunday is the Lord's Day and therefore shops should be closed. I'm not a Christian. I have no Lord. Not everyone is going to be in church and not need or want to shop on Sunday.
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#82 of 108 Old 02-22-2009, 04:20 AM
 
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If everything was closed on Sundays, it would be horrible for Orthodox Jews. We don't go anywhere Friday afternoons and evenings and all day Saturdays, except maybe Saturday nights in the winters, when Shabbos ends earlier.

So what do you do if you work 5 days a week, have your Sabbath on a 6th day, and then the 7th day, the only day you're truly available for big shopping projects, the stores are all closed?
: I'm thankful that I am a homemaker, so that if we ever see the blue laws again I will be able to do the shopping during the week.
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#83 of 108 Old 02-22-2009, 12:28 PM
 
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Unfortunately, the pressure for extended hours is affecting many businesses, not just retail. I work in healthcare and there's all sorts of pressure to offer early morning hours, late evening hours, all night hours (other than ER), weekend hours, etc. And it's happening. Gradually, more and more "extended hours" are being added. If you look around, they're being added in other businesses as well.
I work in an academic library. I have to do reference on some weekend days and some evenings. To be honest, I hate working those extended hours. However, the students would justifiably be irate if we were only open 9-5 M-F. We are even looking to providing reference 24/7, which I think would be dreadful for librarians. If I want to find another place of employment, I'm free to do that.

As far as healthcare goes, I do wish more doctors had extended hours.

This shift has a great deal to do with wider changes in our economy from traditional manufacturing to service. If you are providing service, you need to think about what serves the customer, and clearly that's extended hours. It's highly unlikely that we are going to have a switch back to a manufacturing economy.
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#84 of 108 Old 02-22-2009, 12:34 PM
 
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It's hard to see any positives to bringing back Sunday blue laws! I like being able to shop at my convenience, not finding doors shut because the government believes I should be in church at a particular time.
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I go church on Sat. so my days for weekend shopping is Sat. night or Sunday. And there are alot of stores and malls that open late and close early on Sundays, some don't open at all.
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#85 of 108 Old 02-22-2009, 12:53 PM
 
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We are Atheists and we do all our grocery shopping on Sunday (DH and DD are doing it right now). We go early with all the other heathens, as it gets crowded after church gets out.

If you want to have Sunday be a family day, just don't go out. To insist that all others do the same is akin to trying to force your religious beliefs on others, which goes against the basic principles of this country.
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#86 of 108 Old 02-22-2009, 01:09 PM
 
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I've been working every single freakin weekend since I started my job(which I hate) 5 months ago. I would sooooo love it that place was closed for Sundays, just so I could relax w/my family. Yeah, I miss those days too, but more importantly I miss the days when life was more laid back, not rush rush rush.
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#87 of 108 Old 02-22-2009, 03:03 PM
 
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Our library is not open on Sundays. I wish it was though, I am jealous of those who can go on a Sunday

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#88 of 108 Old 02-22-2009, 05:05 PM
 
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Our library is not open on Sundays. I wish it was though, I am jealous of those who can go on a Sunday
This is my biggest pet peeve with our library system. Why can't they be closed on a Tuesday, when many people are working and unable to check out books, rather than a Sunday when more people might want to use the library?!

Then again, I might just be peevish because I just got home from vacation and discovered that holds I've been waiting for since November are in and they're being held hostage until basically Tuesday because the library isn't open Sunday and closes at 5pm on Monday. :
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#89 of 108 Old 02-22-2009, 07:28 PM
 
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I sort of like the conveinence of having things open everyday. That way, in case I forgot something or need something, I can run out and get it. I'm speaking in terms of grocery as I don't shop often for other things.

I lived in Florence for a year, and it was like that there. By 6:00PM, the streets were empty. Except for the tourists who were like "ahh, what happened?!" lol And then Sundays everything was closed. On top of that, there was some sort of weird business schedule that I could never figure out. Sometimes businesses would be closed on Mondays. Sometimes they were open. Sometimes banks would be closed on Tuesdays, sometimes they would be open. I could not figure it out, though I'm sure there is a very simple explanation.

After that year, and the next one, which I spent in London, Greece, and Poland, I must admit I have come to appreciate having the conveinence of stores being open daily, often 24/7.

I, too, am an atheist, and so Sunday for me is just another day. I actually think that stores could take a day off, easily, during another part of the week when most people are working. But, Sunday, for me would be an inconvenient day to have things close. I do my shopping then!

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#90 of 108 Old 02-22-2009, 07:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by turtlewomyn View Post
We are Atheists and we do all our grocery shopping on Sunday (DH and DD are doing it right now). We go early with all the other heathens, as it gets crowded after church gets out.
same here!

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