Will there ever be a student loan bailout? - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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#181 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 11:27 AM
 
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Did anyone go into the military to pay for college?
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#182 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 01:03 PM
 
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However, I have seen many, many people take positions that they hated in order to pay their student loans.
This doesn't exactly break my heart. I've taken jobs that I hated and worked hard at them until I was in a position to do something different. That's just being a mature adult. Sometimes life isn't a bowl of cherries, but that doesn't mean one should expect other people to pay to make things rosier for you.
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However, I have seen many, many people take positions that they hated in order to pay their student loans.
I've taken positions that I've hated in order to put food on the table. How is that any different?

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#184 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 03:02 PM
 
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Did anyone go into the military to pay for college?
Knew a couple people who did... my Dh tried, but they wouldn't take him due to athsma...


What I really don't like is they way they do the student loans, I was told as a student that it was okay that the school was raising its tuition, because the feds were uping the student loan maximums, but they wouldn't raise the wage for on campus jobs.

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#185 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 03:18 PM
 
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I've taken positions that I've hated in order to put food on the table. How is that any different?
I think we've all done that. I wasn't trying to be adversarial when I wrote my last post, and perhaps I should have been a little more specific.

As a working mom and as a lawyer, I've seen a lot of colleagues take positions that require them to spend longer hours away from their families, with little or no flexibility, for pay that will allow them to maintain their student loan payments. Now, if someone wants to come back at me and state "it's their fault for taking out so many loans and it was their choice to go to school" and the classic "they should have thought ahead about how this would affect their family life", I say: some of the best laid plans can go awry and some of the most unexpected things can happen in one's life. I find the problem to be especially prevelant among female attorneys who want to start families.

I believe people need to take responsibility for their choices, but I also believe that people need to work toward their goals and dreams and to take risks. I do think that young people need more counseling up front regarding college and the costs, and that is where I see the problem. It's a broken system but no one wants to address that. Rather, it is easier to stand on soap boxes. C'est la vie.

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#186 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 03:44 PM
 
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It's not a different discussion, because the government is spending money. I don't think the rich should get a bailout, anymore than I think people who owe on student loans should get a bailout.

Maybe the poor should get a bailout. Maybe the child care subsidy programs in the states that have too many people on the list should get a bailout. Maybe Section 8 should get a bailout.
It is a different discussion, because the way the welfare to work system is designed is stupid. It's completely dumb to spend a bunch of government money on public transportation and childcare that costs more than a woman is going to earn just so she can put her kids in daycare needlessly and others can feel good about making her earn the 'help' she gets that does nothing to break the cycle of poverty. The whole system is flawed and wastes millions of dollars to do nothing but humiliate women and children.

But I guess it is sort of related because it is an example of how the poor don't get bailed out, they have to beg and plead for any kind of 'help' they get, jump through hoops and prove how hard they work for any crumbs they get, while the rich can just fritter away their money, fly in to meet with congress in their private jets with their hands out and they say here have a bunch of taxpayer dollars. They should have to jump through as many hoops as a welfare mother does. Let them suffer some humiliation for taking a handout for a change.

Those guys don't have to feel one bit of humiliation for the cr@p they've done, and they're basically thieves. But let a woman lose her husband and be left with 3 kids to feed and she's treated like scum. There is so much wrong with that it makes me want to scream. Why do we reward people who already have the advantages and treat people who are struggling like dirt?

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#187 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 03:49 PM
 
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Did anyone go into the military to pay for college?
I've known people who did that too. What a great choice. Get your @$$ shot off to get an education.

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#188 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 03:58 PM
 
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This doesn't exactly break my heart. I've taken jobs that I hated and worked hard at them until I was in a position to do something different. That's just being a mature adult. Sometimes life isn't a bowl of cherries, but that doesn't mean one should expect other people to pay to make things rosier for you.
I don't think I was suggesting that. At the beginning of my first post, I said that I don't support bailouts. What I was trying to suggest is that we have a system that allows young people to take out loans the size of a mortgage - when they are extremely immature and have no financial foresight, and then those same people find themselves in a position down the road where they need to make tough choices about how to pay them back. As I stated in the post above, this is especially a concern for young women. I married a guy who became a civil servant. He doesn't make enough to cover my loans. Therefore I work. It is a catch-22 in a lot of respects. I don't regret my decisions but if facts were any different, I might. We had a harder time getting a mortgage for our apartment than I did getting student loans...and we were established with a good income and savings. Something seems wrong about that. No one wants to talk about that, though. It is easier to blame the individual for poor choices or lack of knowledge.

Final points: Higher education is too expensive. Loans are too easy to get. Not enough counseling happens on the front end. Young people often lack financial foresight. Most student loan companies make more back in interest than the original loan. I find that usurious.

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#189 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 04:28 PM
 
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I've known people who did that too. What a great choice. Get your @$$ shot off to get an education.
Well that's what I was wanting to reply, but what i decided to say instead was that where I live only certain degree programs can be paid for this way, and most of them aren't included in that list, including mine.

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#190 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 04:31 PM
 
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I did have jobs throughout college and also earned (non-need) academic based scholarships and graduated with limited debt which I easily repaid as (ironically) a social worker
It's not ironic to earn a good wage as a social worker with a graduate degree. At least not around here. Getting a graduate degree is another 1-2 years after a 4-year degree here, and I'm just going to have to do the grad degree to earn more than minimum wage.

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#191 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 05:39 PM
 
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It's not ironic to earn a good wage as a social worker with a graduate degree. At least not around here. Getting a graduate degree is another 1-2 years after a 4-year degree here, and I'm just going to have to do the grad degree to earn more than minimum wage.
Yes, and that sucks. It isn't right to need to go into debt just to earn a cr@p wage. And while there are plenty of people who think they will earn a 4 year degree and make the big bucks, there are many of us who realize a degree is to us what a high school diploma was to our parents. And a HS diploma was free.

Honestly, I have seen receptionist jobs advertised requiring a degree.

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#192 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 05:44 PM
 
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Well that's what I was wanting to reply, but what i decided to say instead was that where I live only certain degree programs can be paid for this way, and most of them aren't included in that list, including mine.


Yup, that too. And it's always easy for people to come up with solutions for other people. Kind of like when people who have never tried to get disability tell people who are sick how easy it is to go on disability?

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#193 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 05:51 PM
 
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What I was trying to suggest is that we have a system that allows young people to take out loans the size of a mortgage - when they are extremely immature and have no financial foresight, and then those same people find themselves in a position down the road where they need to make tough choices about how to pay them back. might. We had a harder time getting a mortgage for our apartment than I did getting student loans...and we were established with a good income and savings. Something seems wrong about that. No one wants to talk about that, though. It is easier to blame the individual for poor choices or lack of knowledge.
Who would finance education if student loans were not readily available? Student loans are easy to obtain because and education is required to obtain and move ahead in most careers. Purchasing a home is not a necessary for survival.

Why can't the blamed be placed on people who make poor choices or fail to arm themselves with adequate knowledge. The word loan is not in supscripts and the payment terms and interests rates are not hidden from the debtor. So why can't we hold loan recpients responsible for their debts.

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#194 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 06:11 PM
 
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Did anyone go into the military to pay for college?
I thought about ROTC, but I changed my mind, the pay after college is not competive for my desired field. My education might be free, but I would make considerably less than I would in the private sector.

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#195 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 06:33 PM
 
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I don't think I was suggesting that. At the beginning of my first post, I said that I don't support bailouts. What I was trying to suggest is that we have a system that allows young people to take out loans the size of a mortgage - when they are extremely immature and have no financial foresight, and then those same people find themselves in a position down the road where they need to make tough choices about how to pay them back. As I stated in the post above, this is especially a concern for young women. I married a guy who became a civil servant. He doesn't make enough to cover my loans. Therefore I work. It is a catch-22 in a lot of respects. I don't regret my decisions but if facts were any different, I might. We had a harder time getting a mortgage for our apartment than I did getting student loans...and we were established with a good income and savings. Something seems wrong about that. No one wants to talk about that, though. It is easier to blame the individual for poor choices or lack of knowledge.

Final points: Higher education is too expensive. Loans are too easy to get. Not enough counseling happens on the front end. Young people often lack financial foresight. Most student loan companies make more back in interest than the original loan. I find that usurious.
I think this bears repeating. I saw a show about debt and finance years ago on Oprah where financial experts were talking to young people who just could not be made to understand that bad things could happen to them. They were all convinced that they were making good money and could pay their bills so nothing would ever happen to let them experience a financial disaster.

How many people are losing their homes right now who thought the same thing? I used to make really good money without a college degree, but when my division was dissolved and I was transferred to a job within the company that sent me home crying every single night, I found out I had no marketable skills that would net me anything near what I was making. I already had bills and couldn't afford to take a pay cut, or go back to school. I can't be the only one. People have children, mortgages, car loans, layoffs, sh!t happens. It's always easier to believe bad stuff only happens to people who aren't trying than it is to think it can happen to you.

When you're 18 or 21 and bulletproof, nobody can tell you this stuff. Most of us have to find it out the hard way.

Sure people are naive for getting into the mess with student loans and credit cards, but that doesn't make the companies behind the loans and the credit cards any less predatory for taking advantage.

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Big Eyes, I think I love you. Well said!

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Well, CatsCradle said it first.

In our society that's the real problem, we always want to punish people when they fall on hard times, and we always reward the rich when they screw up. That is so profoundly effed up it blows my mind. And when working people support it, it's infuriating.

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i think the student loan situation in this country is abominable. i've heard gov't leaders (henry paulson, for one, i think) say that we need to make student loans more accessible.

that would get a big hells to the no from me!

if you ask me, the accessibility of student loans has allowed the price of tuition to sky rocket. if schools knew people didn't have endless pots of money to borrow from in order to go there, they'd have no choice but to pick their price points carefully, like any other business.

if anything, we need FEWER loans--and cheaper college. like, way cheaper college.

does anyone have any idea where all this tuition money is going? for the most part, it's NOT going to prof. salaries...so where's it going?

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When you're 18 or 21 and bulletproof, nobody can tell you this stuff. Most of us have to find it out the hard way.
Like my husband, and he's 31!

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if schools knew people didn't have endless pots of money to borrow from in order to go there, they'd have no choice but to pick their price points carefully, like any other business.

does anyone have any idea where all this tuition money is going? for the most part, it's NOT going to prof. salaries...so where's it going?
I wonder. I also hate seeing educational institutes being seen as businesses, because that means the $$$$ profit is more important than the education.

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#201 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 07:29 PM
 
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The few months that I was involved with the welfare to work program, I had to take a job with a terrible schedule. My ds was in daycare from 5:45AM to bedtime. THey took him to school, picked him up after school, fed him his meals, and I saw him for very little time. It was ridiculous the hoops I had to jump through. The job had forced overtime and a ridiculous absence policy that meant I could be fired if I missed 3 days. I never saw my ds and daycare was raising him.

I took the first job I was offered and they let me go with no warning. The next job I took told me it was a receptionist job but it was really phone sales and they fired me after the first day because I suck at sales. The welfare people accused me of sabotaging my jobs and threatened to cut off my benefits so I took the job with the awful schedule so I could survive, and I never saw my son at all. I was exhausted an desperate. They told me I would have to put my 7 year old on a city bus in the dark to get to school, by himself, and take public transit to get myself to work, but since I had a car they said I could drive. When I balked at putting my ds on a city bus in the dark they said too bad, that's what we had to do.

The only way I got out of it was my job was driving city transit and the buses didn't run until those of us who drove the first ones for the day got to work. So I got to put ds in daycare and found one with a drop off service and got out of the bus situation. When I got off training pay took away my food stamps, then when I got my first raise I lost my help with daycare and was back in the hole again.

That is the reality of how welfare to work 'works.' I had 1 child, I met a woman who was widowed with several children who had never worked. I have no idea how the h3ll she survived.

Most days I went to work at 6AM after making sure my ds was already at daycare and didn't get home until at least 8 or 9PM. 6 or 7 days a week.
But I of course wasn't trying hard enough and bankers who can afford private jets deserve bailouts.

Every day I would pick up another welfare to work mother who had 2 little boys she would take on the bus to daycare, then wait an hour for the next bus so she could get to work, then at night she would take the bus back to daycare to pick them up, then wait an hour to take the bus home. In our town the buses only ran every hour per route, not like a bigger city where you could catch one every 15 or 20 minutes. One day she and I were talking and she told me she was packing it in and moving back in with her mother, it was just too hard. That is the reality of being the working poor.

Welfare to work isn't about helping working mothers, it's about shaming them and encouraging them to get married or to move back in with family. Anybody who thinks differently hasn't dealt with the system.

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#202 of 282 Old 04-01-2009, 07:41 PM
 
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I would personally benefit from a student loan bailout, and it would help my family tremendously, but imo it is not the solution to the problem.

What would be great is if policies were put in to place so that banks weren't making huge profits off of student loans. The interest rate on my loans is 8%, and it sucks. But the law only allows one consolidation, so I'm stuck with that crappy rate until I pay it off. I think they should allow refi's and have a competitive market for loans just like for home mortgages. That would make things much easier for me by cutting my payment significantly, yet the bank still makes a profit.
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i think the student loan situation in this country is abominable. i've heard gov't leaders (henry paulson, for one, i think) say that we need to make student loans more accessible.

that would get a big hells to the no from me!

if you ask me, the accessibility of student loans has allowed the price of tuition to sky rocket. if schools knew people didn't have endless pots of money to borrow from in order to go there, they'd have no choice but to pick their price points carefully, like any other business.

if anything, we need FEWER loans--and cheaper college. like, way cheaper college.

does anyone have any idea where all this tuition money is going? for the most part, it's NOT going to prof. salaries...so where's it going?
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Student loans are just that. A loan.

I paid off my car in full. Can't be bailed out of that.
I don't own a home, so that's irrelevant to me.
I paid off my student loans in full. Can't be bailed out of that.
Nope - Sorry but it's not the same. Other loans can be forgiven in bankruptcy, student loans can't. For that one reason, student loans are a whole different kind of beast.
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#205 of 282 Old 04-02-2009, 08:38 AM
 
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When you're 18 or 21 and bulletproof, nobody can tell you this stuff. Most of us have to find it out the hard way.

Sure people are naive for getting into the mess with student loans and credit cards, but that doesn't make the companies behind the loans and the credit cards any less predatory for taking advantage.
That's what happened to my brother. He just saw all the money he should be making at his career he's studied five years from and thought any expense was justified. It is just recently that he sees that having a good paying job right out of school is not always as sure of a sure thing as it was made out to be, regardless of course of study. He reported being very humbled by the sheer number of applicants at a recent job fair for people only in his career band. He is a BSME for what it is worth. But now he is also ridiculous in debt for being young and dumb.

Same thing happened to me to some extent, though I was able to bail long before my debt became anywhere near unmanageable.
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#206 of 282 Old 04-02-2009, 08:41 AM
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It's not a different discussion, because the government is spending money. I don't think the rich should get a bailout, anymore than I think people who owe on student loans should get a bailout.

Maybe the poor should get a bailout. Maybe the child care subsidy programs in the states that have too many people on the list should get a bailout. Maybe Section 8 should get a bailout.
They are expanding the social welfare programs, actually. That was included in the last bill.
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#207 of 282 Old 04-02-2009, 08:53 AM
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Welfare to work isn't about helping working mothers, it's about shaming them and encouraging them to get married or to move back in with family. Anybody who thinks differently hasn't dealt with the system.

I see nothing shameful in relying on family in hard times. That's the greater purpose of family, IMO. They should be the first line of defense against homelessness and hunger. Then seek charity. THEN seek government assistance.
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#208 of 282 Old 04-02-2009, 03:11 PM
 
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I see nothing shameful in relying on family in hard times. That's the greater purpose of family, IMO. They should be the first line of defense against homelessness and hunger. Then seek charity. THEN seek government assistance.
Which is great, if you have family to rely on. But if your family is abusive, or you have no family, you're kinda screwed, aren't you? :

How many women on MDC post stories every day about family none of us would tell them to run back to? Social services exist for a reason, but they do their best to throw women and children right back to the very people they're supposed to help them stay away from.

And I don't believe these things should be thought of as charity, either. They are programs that come from taxpayer money to help people better their lives. I worked 2 and 3 jobs at a time from the time I was 13. I only drew unemployment once in my life for less than 6 months and I was on food stamps for something like 2 months. I hardly consider myself a charity case considering the amount I paid in and the amount I've done to help other people in my lifetime.

When someone needs a little help getting back on their feet they shouldn't be treated like they've been a drain on society.

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Originally Posted by gingerbane View Post
Nope - Sorry but it's not the same. Other loans can be forgiven in bankruptcy, student loans can't. For that one reason, student loans are a whole different kind of beast.

But bankruptcy court can take back the car or house or other material goods in order to at least partially "pay back" the creditor that is being screwed through bankruptcy. With a student loan, they can't take back the knowledge one receives. The creditor is screwed and left holding nothing.
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#210 of 282 Old 04-02-2009, 03:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post
But bankruptcy court can take back the car or house or other material goods in order to at least partially "pay back" the creditor that is being screwed through bankruptcy. With a student loan, they can't take back the knowledge one receives. The creditor is screwed and left holding nothing.
But credit card bills are bankrupted out on also, and the merchandise you bought on them is not recoverable either.

What are they gonna do? Pump your stomach for those restaurant meals? They can't get back the gasoline you put in your car, or track down every department store purchase, or make you come back from a vacation you charged, etc.

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