Will there ever be a student loan bailout? - Page 9 - Mothering Forums

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Old 04-04-2009, 07:26 PM
 
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I also work at a university and while I agree that there are a lot of people at college who aren't at all academically oriented, I think there is a danger in overestimating the number of jobs that still exist where a person can earn a living wage without having a college degree.
true. but i guess what i'm saying is there SHOULD be more jobs where you can earn a living wage without having a college degree, since lots of jobs for which you "need" a college degree, you really do NOT need it!

i basically think the whole system needs to be revamped. college should be for people who want/need specific academic training, not for everyone.

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Old 04-05-2009, 02:58 AM
 
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I also work at a university and while I agree that there are a lot of people at college who aren't at all academically oriented, I think there is a danger in overestimating the number of jobs that still exist where a person can earn a living wage without having a college degree.

Yes, we still need some plumbers and mechanics. But we also used to put far more people to work in manufacturing, where blue collar positions earned enough to support a family. Those jobs are long gone and have been replaced by low paying service jobs which often are part-time and have no or poor benefits.
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true. but i guess what i'm saying is there SHOULD be more jobs where you can earn a living wage without having a college degree, since lots of jobs for which you "need" a college degree, you really do NOT need it!

i basically think the whole system needs to be revamped. college should be for people who want/need specific academic training, not for everyone.
Exactly! Plumbers and mechanics don't really NEED college. But to be honest, my DH who is a senior level IT professional isn't using any of the skills or knowledge that he learned while earning a biology degree either. He didn't need a college education to effectively do his job- he's learned all of his job-related skills while on the job. I've seen job placement ads for administrative assistants that require a college degree; this seems excessive to me.

While I do value education in and of itself, I think that the pendulum has swung too far and there are far too many employers requiring college degrees for jobs that don't require specialized skills.

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Old 04-05-2009, 01:52 PM
 
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true. but i guess what i'm saying is there SHOULD be more jobs where you can earn a living wage without having a college degree, since lots of jobs for which you "need" a college degree, you really do NOT need it!

i basically think the whole system needs to be revamped. college should be for people who want/need specific academic training, not for everyone.
Well, that's a nice thought. But who exactly is "the system" and who is going to be in charge of revamping it?

Employers ask for the qualifications they want, whether or not they are genuinely useful to the position. It's pretty common for employers to ask for people who are overeducated, overexperienced and walk on water for entry level jobs with entry level pay. Stupid maybe, but it's entirely within their rights.

Colleges aren't going to start drastically cutting their enrollments any time soon. If people meet the admission criteria, should colleges really be telling people, "no you should go to cosmetology school (or plumbing school or whatever)" because the colleges think they are in charge of revamping the system?
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Old 04-05-2009, 08:57 PM
 
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Well, that's a nice thought. But who exactly is "the system" and who is going to be in charge of revamping it?

Employers ask for the qualifications they want, whether or not they are genuinely useful to the position. It's pretty common for employers to ask for people who are overeducated, overexperienced and walk on water for entry level jobs with entry level pay. Stupid maybe, but it's entirely within their rights.

Colleges aren't going to start drastically cutting their enrollments any time soon. If people meet the admission criteria, should colleges really be telling people, "no you should go to cosmetology school (or plumbing school or whatever)" because the colleges think they are in charge of revamping the system?
A lot of it isn't 'employers', it's HR. We just hired someone in our department and since I'm next in line for my manager's job I was intimately involved for the first time in the process. We wrote up the job description and skills, but our HR recruiter posted the add -- and added a ton of education and certification requirements that had nothing to do with the job and actually kept us from finding the right candidate. We really wanted industry experience more than anything else. He listed the job as requiring a paralegal degree and preferring a JD. Which meant we got a crap ton of newly minted baby lawyers who didn't know anything about our industry and really wanted to be litigators and no one with the industry experience we wanted. HR INSISTED that we couldn't post the job with a less intense education requirement, so we interviewed for six months until we finally found someone with a paralegal degree and a brain and hired her. If she ever quits, I will cry.

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Old 04-05-2009, 11:00 PM
 
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You and I are on exactly the same page. I'd tried to make a clever response to yours, but after subtracting the sarcasm (which would have gotten me an alert) I was left with boring old obviousness, sorry!
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:42 AM
 
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So I have over a hundred credit hours towards an ECE degree. I need about 15 more hours to graduate, but haven't been able to go back due to lack of money and no longer wanting to have to take out student loans. My dh works at a comm. college that has an agreement with a 4 year, and spouses can go to school for free!: Sounds good, huh? Well, I was looking at their catalog yesterday anticipating taking summer classes and lo and behold if I transfer there, I will lose 24 hours of classes over the 350 level. They wil not accept education classes over that level as transfer credits. Now, I am stuck once again with trying to struggle to pay for a degree I started 12 years ago. If colleges wouldn't pull crap like this-they are forcing people into student loans and debt because they will not accept transfer hours. I already lost a bunch of hours transfering in my junior year of college the first time around. The amount of hours I have taken I should have had my degree by now. It's just a money making scheme for the institution.

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Old 04-06-2009, 10:42 PM
 
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I wish!!! I took out my first student loans when I was 17 yrs old, too young to have a clue as to the impact it would have on my life. The interest rates were over 8%. I had my first baby right out of college and he was in the NICU. With all his medical expenses and such, we had to do forbearances. Now, the student loan payment is the biggest bill we have, with little to no chance of ever paying it off. I am turning 39 this summer. What started at maybe $30,000 is at $110,000 now as I do not even pay enough to make the interest payments. The government is definitely making money off of me.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:34 PM
 
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I wish!!! I took out my first student loans when I was 17 yrs old, too young to have a clue as to the impact it would have on my life. The interest rates were over 8%. I had my first baby right out of college and he was in the NICU. With all his medical expenses and such, we had to do forbearances. Now, the student loan payment is the biggest bill we have, with little to no chance of ever paying it off. I am turning 39 this summer. What started at maybe $30,000 is at $110,000 now as I do not even pay enough to make the interest payments. The government is definitely making money off of me.
That so sucks. It is really unfair. I got the forbearance paperwork for my student loans recently, but after reading the RIDICULOUS terms I decided against it. It is really sad that all these banks are like vultures picking people's lives apart, but to me it is the worst when it is a student loan of all things. They should really be willing to work with people on these to help. I wouldn't be surprised if the Obama administration doesn't put something in place to help make student loans more affordable, I guess the question is if it will help a bunch of old fogeys like us with loans that are already a few years old.

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Old 04-07-2009, 02:08 PM
 
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I'd appreciate someone explaining this thinking to me, because I don't get it. I went to a second-tier state school for journalism (1987-1991). Parents paid tuition and some of rent and I paid everything else. Lived pretty frugal, no car, etc. No loans. I only worked as a reporter for 16 months, but having that journalism degree on my resume has been very helpful (given the lack of communications skills many have, my employers have been happy to see that - I can't tell you how many MBAs I've seen who can't spell very common words - and in emails to customers, too!)
You should understand that you are damn lucky that your parents paid for you. Having that opportunity would have changed my life. Changed it completely. And if that had happened to my husband too then, well, I can't even imagine how easy our lives would be now. Just count your blessings and try not to judge those of us who at 18 were not world wise and only knew that everyone was telling us that an education would be the key to escaping poverty and that the loans would be easy to repay. I'm sorry now that I believed it. But I did and I can't go back and undo it.
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:14 PM
 
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A lot of it isn't 'employers', it's HR. We just hired someone in our department and since I'm next in line for my manager's job I was intimately involved for the first time in the process. We wrote up the job description and skills, but our HR recruiter posted the add -- and added a ton of education and certification requirements that had nothing to do with the job and actually kept us from finding the right candidate. We really wanted industry experience more than anything else. He listed the job as requiring a paralegal degree and preferring a JD. Which meant we got a crap ton of newly minted baby lawyers who didn't know anything about our industry and really wanted to be litigators and no one with the industry experience we wanted. HR INSISTED that we couldn't post the job with a less intense education requirement, so we interviewed for six months until we finally found someone with a paralegal degree and a brain and hired her. If she ever quits, I will cry.
Someone gave me some good advice about job hunting that relates to this. He said that the job requirements are the employer's wish list and even if you don't completely qualify go ahead and apply because there is a good chance that they won't find a candidate with all of the wished for qualifications. In this economy this may not be so much true as employers can pick and choose, but most of the time this is true.
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:19 PM
 
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You should understand that you are damn lucky that your parents paid for you. Having that opportunity would have changed my life. Changed it completely. And if that had happened to my husband too then, well, I can't even imagine how easy our lives would be now. Just count your blessings and try not to judge those of us who at 18 were not world wise and only knew that everyone was telling us that an education would be the key to escaping poverty and that the loans would be easy to repay. I'm sorry now that I believed it. But I did and I can't go back and undo it.
Many others of us on this thread have explained that we went to college by paying for it ourselves, either through work, loans or a combination. We made our OWN opportunities, our own luck. (I was one of the ones who got loans - for college and grad school both - and yes, with belt-tightening, they WERE fairly "easy" to repay. If "easy" means "with a lot of dedication and sacrifice you can do it.") And yes, I was 18 when I began college.

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Old 04-07-2009, 03:52 PM
 
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You should understand that you are damn lucky that your parents paid for you. Having that opportunity would have changed my life. Changed it completely. And if that had happened to my husband too then, well, I can't even imagine how easy our lives would be now. Just count your blessings and try not to judge those of us who at 18 were not world wise and only knew that everyone was telling us that an education would be the key to escaping poverty and that the loans would be easy to repay. I'm sorry now that I believed it. But I did and I can't go back and undo it.
I didn't get any help and I came through without loans. I worked my ass off during school (36 hours/week as a computer tech... which was completely outside of my major... at minimum wage) and took classes during the summer when it was easy to get grants and scholarships. At 17, when I started college, I knew enough to get a book out of the library and read up on what I needed to know. Sorry if this sounds harsh but we all have the same access to the same information. Anyone can learn the basics of anything (including financing their education) if they take the time to be anything more than willfully ignorant.
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Old 04-07-2009, 04:26 PM
 
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My father is a university prof, so I got free tuition, but certainly college is far more expensive than JUST tuition.. my parents didn't live anywhere near me, so dorm money, food, books, lab fees, etc I still had to pay for myself.. to give this some bearing, 1 semester of tuition was about equal to 3 months of dorm rent..
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Old 04-07-2009, 04:40 PM
 
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I didn't get any help and I came through without loans. I worked my ass off during school (36 hours/week as a computer tech... which was completely outside of my major... at minimum wage) and took classes during the summer when it was easy to get grants and scholarships. At 17, when I started college, I knew enough to get a book out of the library and read up on what I needed to know. Sorry if this sounds harsh but we all have the same access to the same information. Anyone can learn the basics of anything (including financing their education) if they take the time to be anything more than willfully ignorant.

Wow, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it came off as rather harsh and judgmental.:

I am so tired of this "Well, you just didn't work hard enough." attitude. My husband worked damned hard and still came out with student loans. I'm not saying we should be bailed out, but some of the attitudes I've seen on this thread are really insulting.
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Old 04-07-2009, 04:55 PM
 
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Wow, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it came off as rather harsh and judgmental.:

I am so tired of this "Well, you just didn't work hard enough." attitude. My husband worked damned hard and still came out with student loans. I'm not saying we should be bailed out, but some of the attitudes I've seen on this thread are really insulting.
It wasn't judgemental... but yes, it was harsh. The point is that we all have access to information to educate ourselves out these things. It's not about "hard work", although that is important. Yeah... it takes some effort to get out of college without a mountain of debt. But it can be done. (And I did not receive financial aid because my father would not disclose his income.) I'm tired of hearing "Oh, I was 18... didn't know what I was doing..." Baloney... if you're old enough to enter a higher institution of learning, you damned well be old enough to understand the responsibility of debt.
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:01 PM
 
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He understood the responsibility of debt, which is why he did not go to a more expensive school, but sometimes shit happens in life that you don't see coming. (and we aren't asking for help btw, but I understand that there are people who need it)

I think all some posters were trying to say is that if tptb really want to make a difference, then perhaps helping people other than just the rich/corps/etc might be a good start.


*And while many posts on this thread may not have meant to come off as judgmental, they certainly came across that way. Reminds me of some of my Republican in-laws who have the attitude of screw the poor, they should just work harder.
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:08 PM
 
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Medical debt... everyone should have an alternative to dealing with this. Whether that is bailout, socialized medicine or some other remedy. Our medical future (and our children's medical future) is one thing we have little control over. Everything else is a factor of how we live and make decisions. People should not be bailed out for poor judgement or making assumptions.
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:14 PM
 
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I'm not looking for a bailout, nor do I expect one to come for student loans.

However, I can understand how people can be surprised by the far-reaching effects of debt. I'm one of them.

I *totally* get that it's my money to pay back. I have every intention of doing so. It's just that it sometimes feels harsh to have people sit and say, "well, you fool! How could you not have known?"

Well, there are lots of ways that you could not have known. For me, my parents were not.good.with.money.at.all. It was normal and expected that everyone was in some level of debt. My dad's own student loans were repaid by garnishment. Hello!!! Not good with money.

As an adult, I can see how debt limits your choices, and I have made steps to break that debt cycle (my people were sharecroppers; the cycle goes way back). However, that's something that I honestly didn't know at 18 (or 22). It took me being an adult, paying my own way, to get that lesson.

My dh is the first in his family to graduate from college. His parents didn't put much emphasis on not going into debt, because they had never been in debt themselves. They (and he) assumed that he would pay his loans off quickly. Life got in the way, and that didn't happen.

Once again...not looking for a handout. Just the understanding that just because you get into trouble with student loans doesn't mean that you are stupid. Naive, yes. Uninformed, yes. Woefully ignorant, absolutely. Will you end up in your 30s wishing that you could redo your 20s? Probably. But not stupid.
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:25 PM
 
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I am very surprised at the number of people who are essentially saying, "Well, I got through college with little debt, so anyone else should be able to do it, too." DH and I came out of college with very little debt, but I would never, ever presume that people will get the breaks we did.

A year's tuition at our alma mater in 2002? Less than $3000. Now? Over $8000. Four years of tuition has increased from $12K to $32K in less than a decade. At the "cheap state school." There is simply no way in h*** that DH and I could make it as students today without considerable debt.

I am all for personal responsibility and making sure students are educated about debt. But let's at least be realistic about the playing field here. It is NOT the same playing field it was a decade or two or three ago, and to pretend otherwise is ridiculous and insulting.
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:44 PM
 
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Wow, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it came off as rather harsh and judgmental.:

I am so tired of this "Well, you just didn't work hard enough." attitude. My husband worked damned hard and still came out with student loans. I'm not saying we should be bailed out, but some of the attitudes I've seen on this thread are really insulting.


I also want to clarify something I said earlier because it's been pointed out to me that it came off as if I was saying women who use daycare are letting someone else raise their children. That wasn't at all what I meant.

What I meant was, the way the welfare to work system is, they don't care if poor women have to leave their children in daycare for 8 hours or more in addition to the time they spend in school, just so long as welfare mothers are seen as 'earning' what they're 'given.' It's a horrible demeaning system that shortchanges children and doesn't help anybody in the long run, but it makes some holier than thou haves feel better about keeping their thumbs on the have nots.

When I was putting my ds in 'daycare' from 5:45am to at least 8 or 9pm 6 to 7 days a week, I could hardly say I was raising him. But it sure made those bureaucrats happy to know I was crawling for those crumbs they gave me those 2 months. God forbid someone who accepts food stamps or a single welfare check should spend a few minutes a day interacting with her children lest she be seen as not trying hard enough.

Meanwhile, we give our tax dollars to wealthy men with corporate jets, and all they had to do was stick their hands out. That makes no sense to me at all. Women and children are expected to be humiliated for being poor, but wealthy men can squander our tax dollars and we aren't supposed to even look down our noses at them because it's just business.

And if you think student loans should be forgiven, you're irresponsible. Because everyone knows only the rich get out of paying their debts. YK, the people who could afford to pay outright for school in the first place? It's probably easy when you know anytime your business gets in trouble you can get a government bailout, unlike the little guys who just go under.

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Old 04-07-2009, 05:48 PM
 
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I'm tired of hearing "Oh, I was 18... didn't know what I was doing..." Baloney... if you're old enough to enter a higher institution of learning, you damned well be old enough to understand the responsibility of debt.
In my state, you can't buy alcohol (or cigarettes) until you are 21, because the state has determined that, among other things, people under 21 will not drink responsibly or will put others at risk. Why then, do we assume that if some kids are not mature enough to drink when they are 17, that they are mature enough to sign a promissory note for tens of thousands of dollars? If all is fair in love and war, then under-21 college kids should be allowed to drink/buy alcohol. If you're mature enough to take out 100k to finance your education, then have a beer please.

I still stand by my earlier proposition that more counseling needs to be done on the front end (by either the loan companies or the admissions offices) so that potential students are made more aware of the possible pitfalls of repayment and whether or not the industry of their choice is going to be an adequate avenue for paying off certain loans.

There are times when I get frustrated with others' irresponsibilities and when I feel comforted because my own life choices have reaped positive benefits. I have learned, though, that when you start to see what was once a localized problem (only a select few defaulting), turn into an epidemic, then something is wrong at the root of the system.

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Old 04-07-2009, 06:12 PM
 
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Meanwhile, we give our tax dollars to wealthy men with corporate jets, and all they had to do was stick their hands out. That makes no sense to me at all. Women and children are expected to be humiliated for being poor, but wealthy men can squander our tax dollars and we aren't supposed to even look down our noses at them because it's just business.
I agree with this. What is funny is that corporations are "persons" in the eyes of the law (they can sue and be sued...they are required to pay taxes...they must abide by certain rules and laws). Of course, I say all this with jest because corporations are the first to get tax cuts, the first to get bailouts, the first to get subsidies, the first to plead for lax environmental restrictions and bankruptcy laws. I still can't figure out myself why people aren't more outraged at the complete irresponsibility, greed and criminality that takes place on the corporate level and at very real expense, to us...the taxpayers. It perplexes me.

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Old 04-07-2009, 06:21 PM
 
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I agree with this. What is funny is that corporations are "persons" in the eyes of the law (they can sue and be sued...they are required to pay taxes...they must abide by certain rules and laws). Of course, I say all this with jest because corporations are the first to get tax cuts, the first to get bailouts, the first to get subsidies, the first to plead for lax environmental restrictions and bankruptcy laws. I still can't figure out myself why people aren't more outraged at the complete irresponsibility, greed and criminality that takes place on the corporate level and at very real expense, to us...the taxpayers. It perplexes me.
Oh they do, but only at WalMart. Many businesses are getting huge tax breaks, screwing their workers over with lousy insurance, or no insurance and low wages, and corporate welfare is the biggest drain there is, but people spend so much time worrying some woman might be getting $10 more in food stamps than she's entitled to it just kills me.

The big guys keep taking and the little guy keeps being scrutinized. Makes no sense whatsoever. And the gap between the haves and the have nots grows wider every year.

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Old 04-07-2009, 06:22 PM
 
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In my state, you can't buy alcohol (or cigarettes) until you are 21, because the state has determined that, among other things, people under 21 will not drink responsibly or will put others at risk. Why then, do we assume that if some kids are not mature enough to drink when they are 17, that they are mature enough to sign a promissory note for tens of thousands of dollars? If all is fair in love and war, then under-21 college kids should be allowed to drink/buy alcohol. If you're mature enough to take out 100k to finance your education, then have a beer please.
You can also die for your country and vote at 18. Perhaps the the powers that be think that voting, being in the military and taking out loans don't mix with alcohol. (I'm joking, btw.)

I agree with you, but that is an argument about the drinking age, not about taking out school loans.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:24 PM
 
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Oh they do, but only at WalMart. Many businesses are getting huge tax breaks, screwing their workers over with lousy insurance, or no insurance and low wages, and corporate welfare is the biggest drain there is, but people spend so much time worrying some woman might be getting $10 more in food stamps than she's entitled to it just kills me.

The big guys keep taking and the little guy keeps being scrutinized. Makes no sense whatsoever. And the gap between the haves and the have nots grows wider every year.

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Old 04-07-2009, 06:28 PM
 
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I'm not looking for a bailout, nor do I expect one to come for student loans.

However, I can understand how people can be surprised by the far-reaching effects of debt. I'm one of them.

I *totally* get that it's my money to pay back. I have every intention of doing so. It's just that it sometimes feels harsh to have people sit and say, "well, you fool! How could you not have known?"

Well, there are lots of ways that you could not have known. For me, my parents were not.good.with.money.at.all. It was normal and expected that everyone was in some level of debt. My dad's own student loans were repaid by garnishment. Hello!!! Not good with money.

As an adult, I can see how debt limits your choices, and I have made steps to break that debt cycle (my people were sharecroppers; the cycle goes way back). However, that's something that I honestly didn't know at 18 (or 22). It took me being an adult, paying my own way, to get that lesson.

My dh is the first in his family to graduate from college. His parents didn't put much emphasis on not going into debt, because they had never been in debt themselves. They (and he) assumed that he would pay his loans off quickly. Life got in the way, and that didn't happen.

Once again...not looking for a handout. Just the understanding that just because you get into trouble with student loans doesn't mean that you are stupid. Naive, yes. Uninformed, yes. Woefully ignorant, absolutely. Will you end up in your 30s wishing that you could redo your 20s? Probably. But not stupid.
: Except that I was the first one in my family to go to college and this was after a failed marriage and years of being a single Mama. Sadly not everyone has the same choices or access to information and to say otherwise is crazy. Its the same argument that says anyone can pull themselves up by the bootstraps, that's assuming we all start the race with some boots or straps.

As I like to say depending on the year when we were growing up we were either poor if it was a bad year, working class in a good year. My folks never had any money, I don't recall them ever having a bank account when I was a kid, they just went to the check cashing joints. I share this to say that because I had no exposure to a financial education when I was a kid, I made a lot of bad choices in my late teens and 20's and while I am laden with a ton of student loan debt, fact is my education opened up doors that never would have been open otherwise.

Looking back, maybe there was a better way to finance my education but seeing as how I had tried the community college route and juggling it with a 40 hour a week job and a small child it was hell on earth. So I made the best choices I could at that time.

Mothering since 1992...its one of the many hats I wear.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:44 PM
 
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You can also die for your country and vote at 18. Perhaps the the powers that be think that voting, being in the military and taking out loans don't mix with alcohol. (I'm joking, btw.)

I agree with you, but that is an argument about the drinking age, not about taking out school loans.
I know...and perhaps I was being snarky about using that...but the point I was trying to make was that responsibility seems to come in many shades. I didn't take out my first student loan until I was 37, and even then it was a very huge decision. Was I mature enough at 17 to do the same? Probably, but I also chose to go to art school at 17. When I was 37, I chose to go to law school. Law school? Higher return on the investment. Art school, not such a high return unless I was some kind of art star. People change, people make different decisions as they age, people gain maturity with experience. I'm not saying it is an excuse for defaulting on your loans...just saying that not all people have reached the level of maturity at 17 to map out their entire lives.

"Lawyers, I suppose, were children once." Charles Lamb.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:08 PM
 
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I know...and perhaps I was being snarky about using that...but the point I was trying to make was that responsibility seems to come in many shades. I didn't take out my first student loan until I was 37, and even then it was a very huge decision. Was I mature enough at 17 to do the same? Probably, but I also chose to go to art school at 17. When I was 37, I chose to go to law school. Law school? Higher return on the investment. Art school, not such a high return unless I was some kind of art star. People change, people make different decisions as they age, people gain maturity with experience. I'm not saying it is an excuse for defaulting on your loans...just saying that not all people have reached the level of maturity at 17 to map out their entire lives.
Exactly. And if you're lucky, you were born to people with money sense. I wasn't.

My parents gave my younger brother money advice that led them straight to bankruptcy and foreclosure. My parents still live on credit.

My older brother married a woman who came from people who are financially savvy and he lets her handle all the money. He freely admits they would have nothing if he didn't. I am also aware that if my dh's family were not good with money my children would probably not be looking at much of a future. I've learned more about money in the past 5 years than I have in my entire life. I made so many stupid mistakes with money in my 20s it blows my mind. I even cosigned my now ex's student loans.

At least he's paying them now, nobody's come after me for money in the past 10 years.

We were just talking about how important it is to teach the kids how to handle money so they don't end up making mistakes that cost them. I know you can't protect them from everything, but I hope telling them some of the really stupid things I did will help them know what not to do.

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Old 04-07-2009, 07:16 PM
 
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Hey, I read the last few and I hope my posts didn't make it seem like I said if you come out with loans you didn't work hard enough. DH and I came out with loans - we worked hard while in school to keep them to a minimum, but we still came out with them - and we spent MANY MANY years paying them off.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:26 PM
 
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Exactly. And if you're lucky, you were born to people with money sense. I wasn't.
Neither was I. Hell, my mom lives with us now because of money, not health, issues. My father taught me a lot about general living skills, and he was good with money, but what I know now is mostly from books.

ANYONE can get money sense. They just need to take the time to read.
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