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#61 of 107 Old 04-06-2009, 07:21 PM
 
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http://www.urbansurvival.com/week.htm

Urban Survival is another interesting market/financial/what's happening in the world read. He updates M-F and usually Sat. as well. Personally, I can't start my day w/o reading the update.

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#62 of 107 Old 04-06-2009, 07:35 PM
 
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Thank you both! I added a financial/economy folder in my bookmarks. I want to watch Martenson's crash course one of these days. I have it bookmarked.
Watch it now. Before you spend time trying to read financial blogs, just watch it. You can watch one section per night.

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#63 of 107 Old 04-06-2009, 07:39 PM
 
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So, I am reading all these links and trying to understand it all. This one I forwarded to my mom, as she's at an age where she's trying to decide if she should start drawing on her SS now or defer (higher monthly payments the longer you defer). From the sound of the article, it sounds like maybe it'd be better for her to start now just to get at least some of her money before major SHTF. But, I wanted to ask those of you who are much more versed in this all. If a person is eligible for SS now and has an option of starting monthly payments now at a lower amount a month, or waiting a couple years but drawing more each month, would it be better to start now and put the money in a (safe) savings account (or under the bed?)?
She can start now, save it in cash if she doesn't need it. At her full retirement age she can then turn around and give the money back and reapply. There was an article in Kiplingers a while back detailing how to do this.

ETA: here is the link to the articles http://www.kiplinger.com/features/ar...-security.html

http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/ar..._security.html

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#64 of 107 Old 04-06-2009, 07:46 PM
 
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Watch it now. Before you spend time trying to read financial blogs, just watch it. You can watch one section per night.
: It really helps you understand the other stuff. It puts it in a larger perspective, I think.

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#65 of 107 Old 04-06-2009, 08:17 PM
 
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hey thanks for posting that article about Iceland. I grew up there so it was interesting to me.

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#66 of 107 Old 04-06-2009, 09:39 PM
 
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In addition to the above links, I check http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/BreakingNews.html every afternoon. I've never looked at anything else on his site (disclaimer- I don't know if the rest of the site is legit or not), but this particular page is just a link to the day's headlines about the economy from different newspapers, mostly MSM but it has other sources mixed in as well. Quite eye opening.

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#67 of 107 Old 04-06-2009, 09:53 PM
 
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In addition to the above links, I check http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/BreakingNews.html every afternoon. I've never looked at anything else on his site (disclaimer- I don't know if the rest of the site is legit or not), but this particular page is just a link to the day's headlines about the economy from different newspapers, mostly MSM but it has other sources mixed in as well. Quite eye opening.
The forums are tinfoil central and there's very little moderation so it's a free-for-all and people can be quite aggressive. Still, I do learn a lot.

The thing about tin foil is it's outside of the box thinking and while it tends to be wrong, it does offer a new perspective that often changes the way I think about something.

V

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#68 of 107 Old 04-06-2009, 10:23 PM
 
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I nurse and read, and in grad school learned to read quickly. I read an insane number of mainstream periodicals (WSJ, NYT, Economist, Newsweek, Time, Fortune, Kiplingers, Money, MSNBC, Slate, Salon, Grist, Reuters, AP Wire, Washington Post, local newspapers, etc). I added in the less mainstream and more esoteric (martenson, shadowstats, Case Shiller Index, Realty Track, etc) when I kept getting a weird sense that everything just wasn't adding up.


This WSJ article about might be helpful for someone to understand just how far housing values still have to fall before we reach pre-bubble levels. Sure there are some of policy changes that could prevent us from bottoming out, but they are unlikely.

Couple this article with a few other ideas:
* anunderstanding about how our current transportation infrastructure to get between housing and jobs requires cheap oil
* we reached global peak oil somewhere between 2005 and 2008
* our current unemployment rates are higher than are being reported
* unemployment insurance is about to run out for hundreds of thousands of people

Yuck.

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#69 of 107 Old 04-06-2009, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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i like to puddle around the free OL stuff on the WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/home-page

and b/c I'm always interested in RE (which being probably the biggest expense, and necessary, for most households can reveal alot of info):

http://online.wsj.com/public/page/ne...ate-homes.html
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/realestate/

for opinion, i like david brooks:
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinio...0brooks&st=cse

and i also like baseline scenario:
http://baselinescenario.com/

re: drawing on SS now or wait, I can't tell you how many people I know that have died this past year, almost all dying within the 1 y about (just before/just after) retirement. None was expected.
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#70 of 107 Old 04-06-2009, 11:02 PM
 
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i like to puddle around the free OL stuff on the WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/home-page

and b/c I'm always interested in RE (which being probably the biggest expense, and necessary, for most households can reveal alot of info):

http://online.wsj.com/public/page/ne...ate-homes.html
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/realestate/

for opinion, i like david brooks:
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinio...0brooks&st=cse

and i also like baseline scenario:
http://baselinescenario.com/

re: drawing on SS now or wait, I can't tell you how many people I know that have died this past year, almost all dying within the 1 y about (just before/just after) retirement. None was expected.
Ugh, how can you stand David Brooks? He STILL won't admit the failure of the last 8 year's policies. I like reading the readers comments after his column more than I like reading him, lol. Frank Rich (another NYT Op Ed columnist) has been telling it like it is.
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#71 of 107 Old 04-07-2009, 06:47 AM
 
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I also like Jim Kunsler , but he's kinda dark (I just am very amused at his writing style).
I just finished Kunstler's new book "World Made by Hand". It's a fictional version of PO/War/Plague/etc. It was a good read and I enjoyed it quite a bit.
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#72 of 107 Old 04-07-2009, 09:18 AM
 
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I just finished Kunstler's new book "World Made by Hand". It's a fictional version of PO/War/Plague/etc. It was a good read and I enjoyed it quite a bit.
I've been wanting to read some of his books (I read the first chapter or whatever's on google books of the long emergency a while ago), just haven't gotten around to finding them at the library yet. I think I'll have to order them on ILL though...

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#73 of 107 Old 04-07-2009, 11:17 AM
 
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The forums are tinfoil central and there's very little moderation so it's a free-for-all and people can be quite aggressive. Still, I do learn a lot.

The thing about tin foil is it's outside of the box thinking and while it tends to be wrong, it does offer a new perspective that often changes the way I think about something.

V


The LATOC forums is one I read everyday too! I was thinking some of your links looked familiar
And ITA about your tin foil assessment

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#74 of 107 Old 04-07-2009, 01:20 PM
 
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The LATOC forums is one I read everyday too! I was thinking some of your links looked familiar
And ITA about your tin foil assessment
I love those forums! Some of it is tinfoil and some of it is legitimate but overall it is highly entertaining.
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#75 of 107 Old 04-07-2009, 01:33 PM
 
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I really liked this non-tinfoil analysis of where we are now and where we will be in the next year or so from The Baseline Scenario: http://baselinescenario.com/2009/04/...-april-7-2009/
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#76 of 107 Old 04-08-2009, 02:13 PM
 
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Hello Peak Oil. From the Wall St. Journal

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/...-cause-crisis/

"In a paper presented at the Brookings Panel on Economic Activity Thursday, University of Calif.-San Diego economist James Hamilton crunched some numbers on how consumer spending responds to rising energy prices and came to a surprising result: Nearly all of last year’s economic downturn could be attributed to the oil price shock."

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#77 of 107 Old 04-08-2009, 07:02 PM
 
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Thanks, everyone, for all these articles. Subbing so I can get around to reading them all.
DH is reading The Long Emergency and I am reading Depletion and Abundance right now, then we'll switch. It's a lot to take in!

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#78 of 107 Old 04-10-2009, 06:19 PM
 
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http://www.urbansurvival.com/week.htm

Urban Survival is another interesting market/financial/what's happening in the world read. He updates M-F and usually Sat. as well. Personally, I can't start my day w/o reading the update.

I think George is a sweet guy but he and the "web bots" have lost a lot of credibility in my eyes. I've been reading his daily update for well over a year and I have waited for many events that never came, like the "global coastal event" of January 2009 that never happened. Some things have lined up, but they seem to work hard at finding the evidence that the web bots were somehow correct. For general info and news that makes you go "hmmm", I do enjoy the site. I think George is a smart guy but perhaps he enjoys his doom and gloom a bit too much for my tastes. While I myself lean towards the darker side of reality for the purpose of being prepared, I really think you have to try and find some hope, especially when you have children. At my darkest hour, I was really into all that stuff and it cost me my health. It took me awhile to realize the effect my readings were having on me, afterall, I was in "control" of my mind and it couldn't affect me phsyically, and it was a good thing that I was taking my family's destiny by the reigns and getting a headstart on being ready. Wrong. It just hurt me. It hurt my marriage too. Has your husband or SO ever called you negative? Maybe they are right. Mine is far more balanced than I was. It's one thing to be aware of what is happening and aware of the gravity of this changing world, and it's another to be consumed by it and maybe even finding yourself seeking out bad things that happen just to validate your beliefs. I totally relate to all of you here on this thread. I just stopped reading those websites, except Kunstler because I think I even detect some hope and some willingness in his words to concede that things may not end up quite as bad as a fiction writer could imagine.

I totally agree about oil, water and food. There are just too many people on this earth and it is growing exponentially as population does. If we continued at a current growth rate of 1.3% (which is less than the 90s when the rate was 1.7%), we would have one person for every square meter of dry land on earth in 2,000 years. I think we all know we probably won't have great-great granchildren. Something has to give. Either mother nature will take care of the problem through pestilence, drought, natural disasters and/or disease, or life will become so challenging that our kids or grandkids are going to decide not to have children. I will be ok if my kids decide not to become mothers. I think we have reached the peak best time to be a human on this earth, specifically in this country, maybe we reached that 20 or 30 years ago and now we are on the decline. Technological advances can't make up for lack of family, replace values and morality, reduce violence and abuse, and clearly they have not reduced illnesses despite prolonging lifespans, which was born out of the need to keep far more people alive artificially thanks to skyrocketing rates of chronic illness. Sure sanitation has improved communicable disease rates, and some would credit vaccines for some of that, but in reality, we are a lot sicker now than we were 30, 40, 50 years ago. My parents had measles and mumps, it was not a big deal, but what they didn't have was one in 6 people with cancer or diabetes back then, and certainly autism was a very rare occurrence.

My point is, we are not well and we are not going to get better. I truly believe we are on the decline as a civilization. That's nice that China is doing so well but there will never be enough resources and oil on this earth for other countries to have the decadent life we have been so blessed with in this country. China is smart enough to understand that they aren't making any more minerals, timber, precious metals, and are in scurry across the globe to secure rights to what is left of these things. The earth simply cannot sustain further population growth but it isn't going to stop. Even if it slows down and people start putting the breaks on breeding, there will be a long period before the effects of that slowdown are felt. Meanwhile, there is really not much any of us can do except try to live as best we can. Move out of big cities, into clean air, small commutes, bigger yards for growing food, become as independant of oil and the grid as possible. But water is a big one, and it is going to affect most of us sooner or later. We own some land in Costa Rica that we have been trying to sell for years with no offers. Beautiful land 500 meters from a beautful beach, but there is no water in the area and many landowners have drilled 16 times in a one-acre plot to no avail (and that costs like 1-2k per drill). We have rights to share a well with some other people. The well goes dry some times of the year. There is 40% less rainfall in that region than there was some 50 years ago and that is due to deforestation. That is shocking. There has been a huge price for the earth to pay for us to live the way we do.

I suppose I've done my grieving over the past several years. I lived in Costa Rica 2001-2003, returning annually since then, and have watched in horror its transformation from paradise into a ruined symbol of greed and development allowed to go unchecked. Thousands of ugly concrete condos lie empty with no buyers, but now there are pronounced water shortages after the developers tapped into small communities' aquifers, allowed to do so thanks to bribery. Collapsing infrastructure, raw sewage dumped by hotels into the ocean, and a lot worse. It has been very hard for my husband to see what's happened to his country. We are simply destroying the last beautiful, pristine places on earth, and those with deep pockets are buying up all the beachfronts where I used to swim in peace in clear waters, to set up marinas and let yachts ooze oil into these waters, killing off whats left of coral reefs and destroying these natural gems for future generations. I figure I will someday be telling my children about the days when one could actually swim in the ocean without worrying about pollution (there are still some places left but not for long, sadly).

It's very telling to me that George W. Bush bought a large parcel of land in Paraguay that sits atop the region's largest aquifer. There are people in high places privy to info that us sheeple are not, but their actions tell us something. Water wars have already been going on in some places, like Mexico. We've personally been involved in ongoing water wars in our area of Costa Rica. A big part of the reason why we abandoned our dreams there and came to the U.S. For now, we are ok where we live. We are in the Rocky Mountains. Food could be an issue. We'd have to learn to love a simple diet of dairy, meat and potatoes, but we wouldn't starve. We do have time, and I am trying to make the most of that time and enjoying more of it rather than stressing over what I know is coming. I just don't think it's going to be a sudden thing either. It's going to be rapid in the historical context and unfortunately we are done ever ascending to new heights as a civilization. Now it's a race for what resources are left and it's a critical time for nations of the world to decide their own fates and these resources dwindle and countries, namely China, devour up the majority. We've been a fair and free country for quite come time now and I hate to think we will have to step aside as the superpower. We may be the most indulgent country but I don't think we deserve to be taken down. The bankers and politicians and other thieves, yes, absolutely, but we still have the best and brightest minds here and the strongest spirit. Obama was right when he said we make no apologies for how we live. I think most of us really appreciate what we have, and we are learning to do with less, but for others to have what we have achieved (and yes, I think it is an achievement, how many Americans gave their lives for the freedom of other countries (not including Iraq?). I don't think we are a bully. We have been a model for the rest of the world. Now the playing field is leveling for sure, but we'll still be Americans and we have great resilience and some of the smartest minds on the globe, so I do still have some hope. I think we are in for a permanent change though, and we will all have to do with less, but I think there is a silver lining in that. Maybe things that made us so great 50 years ago will hold more value now, and the things that caused us to fail, like greed, decadence, lack of morals, ethics and values, lack of identity, hopelessness and idleness, will be replaced with the sorts of things Obama talks about, like personal responsibility, community service, family ties, and hard work. At least one can still hope, right?

Meanwhile, my emergency fund is tied up in an oil stock. I made a little profit in the stock market, got out, paid my debts, and now I have a little nest egg in oil because I am with the others who think oil/natural gas is going back up through the roof sooner than later.
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#79 of 107 Old 04-10-2009, 06:49 PM
 
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I think we all know we probably won't have great-great granchildren. Technological advances can't make up for lack of family, replace values and morality, reduce violence and abuse, My point is, we are not well and we are not going to get better.
No, we don't all know that. I sure don't.

And, violence, abuse and "immorality" have been around for a very, very long time. They're not modern. And they aren't due to technology.

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#80 of 107 Old 04-10-2009, 07:01 PM
 
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I just finished Kunstler's new book "World Made by Hand". It's a fictional version of PO/War/Plague/etc. It was a good read and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

I just returned it to the library a week or two ago. Definitely made me think. For some reason it was also easier for me to get into than TLE - it never hooked me before I had to return it.

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#81 of 107 Old 04-10-2009, 07:16 PM
 
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No, we don't all know that. I sure don't.

And, violence, abuse and "immorality" have been around for a very, very long time. They're not modern. And they aren't due to technology.
:

I'm much more convinced by history that people will survive. Period. Human's have an incredible will and determination when it comes to survival, and an adaptability that serves the race well in times of hardship, no matter how great.

I am not crunchy enough for this forum. Everyday I get a little crunchier though! :
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#82 of 107 Old 04-10-2009, 08:19 PM
 
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I just returned it to the library a week or two ago. Definitely made me think. For some reason it was also easier for me to get into than TLE - it never hooked me before I had to return it.
Glad you liked it, too.
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#83 of 107 Old 04-11-2009, 01:41 AM - Thread Starter
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freespirited:
thanks for your thoughtful post. You articulate many of the similar thoughts that i have been pondering. Very interesting re: Bush's purchase of land with aquifer rights.

... thanks for the link on Jim Kunser... very interesting. Funny how , to me now, he does not seem quite a tin foil as he sounded last fall.
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#84 of 107 Old 04-11-2009, 09:38 AM
 
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freespirited, I really liked your post, it made a lot of sense to me. I didn't know that about GWB and his place in Paraguay, I"ll have to read about that. I thought you put together a well thought post, thanks!

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#85 of 107 Old 04-11-2009, 09:41 AM
 
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freespirited:
thanks for your thoughtful post. You articulate many of the similar thoughts that i have been pondering. Very interesting re: Bush's purchase of land with aquifer rights.

... thanks for the link on Jim Kunser... very interesting. Funny how , to me now, he does not seem quite a tin foil as he sounded last fall.
Ok I looked all thru this thread for the link to the article by Kunstler, the one mentioned here? the one where he is not too tin foily? Where is it?

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#86 of 107 Old 04-11-2009, 01:49 PM
 
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Ok I looked all thru this thread for the link to the article by Kunstler, the one mentioned here? the one where he is not too tin foily? Where is it?
He has a column that comes out every Monday. If you go to his website http://www.kunstler.com/ you would just scroll down until you see the column, it's under "clusterf*ck nation". The most recent was April 6th. I haven't read it in ages so I'm getting ready to catch up a bit.
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#87 of 107 Old 04-11-2009, 02:35 PM
 
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No, we don't all know that. I sure don't.

And, violence, abuse and "immorality" have been around for a very, very long time. They're not modern. And they aren't due to technology.

I didn't mean to convey that violence and immorality is modern phenomena. My point was that these things are increasing in ways and on levels previously unseen. Sure if you go back to the Dark Ages, it would seem that violence has improved, maybe, I think it would be a strange comparison. I was comparing today to the last century. That gives us a better understanding of where we are heading. We know that there are many more broken homes and kids growing up with less guidance and less identity. Many of the shooting sprees of late were done by kids in their early 20s. Something isn't right with the way younger generations are growing up. These shooting rampages were rarer decades ago. School shootings were unheard of in the 80s, workplace shootings were beginning then but virtually unheard of in prior decades. There have always been murderous people around, it's just that more and more people seem to be snapping rather than methodically murdering people as a hobby. People are snapping at younger ages. Suicide rates are up too. The economy is probably a factor, but with peak oil, does anyone see the global economy surpassing what we had years ago? Immorality has also been around forever and is not due to technology. My point was again that as we become more technologically advanced, we seem to be going backwards socially. I am not talking about things like gay marriage or anything else I think it harmless but deemed immoral by some. I am just seeing a lot more corruption, cheating, lying, hurting others for personal gain, and a lot of people who seem to be growing up with no moral compass at all. There were social consequences to these things when my parents were growing up and people cared more about them but now it seems a lot of people have not a lot to lose. The whole system has changed and it's a lot harder to get ahead in this life. I think that fact has a lot to do with the angst brewing out there. My employer has turned down a large number of applicants who otherwise would have gotten the job because they had poor credit scores. If people are not getting jobs because of past financial mistakes, I don't see how that is going to help the situation we are facing with a lot of disgruntled people. Lack of parenting isn't helping with the younger kids growing up, whose world seems to be in cyberspace and futures uncertain in these changing times.

There are a few things that might have contributed to some of these issues and they are technological. Child pornography on the internet has given child predators an outlet to further their agendas, porn in general has hurt a lot of relationships and its availability and ease of covering your tracks has made it simply "a thing all guys do". Social "networking" sites have replaced actual socializing which I don't see as a good thing, imho. To some extent it may be harmless but there are a lot of teens out there who eat, breathe and sleep Facebook or Twitter or whatever. I think the evidence linking cell phones to brain tumors is pretty compelling. Maybe they are also causing changes in behavior of some people, who knows. Abuse towards women and children has been going on forever but I think there has been a rise in the number of cases. Too many people killing their own children these days, and children killing parents too. I won't say that is caused by technology obviously, but we are negectling our social progression as we strive for greater technology. Every technological advance has proven to further isolate individuals from the rest of the world in a sense, and from families. Maybe not in theory but physically it has. I don't think chatting on message boards is anything close to having coffee with people or sitting down and talking with people in real life. This is extreme, but people have even died from being online too long. Mostly it seems to be people on video game marathons that drop dead, but is anyone wondering what the health effects of such an unnatural pastime might be? I think it can be argued that modern day socializing trends are not good for society as a whole nor families nor individuals. I don't know how much of it is directly to blame for the rise in violence but I do believe it has its root in society which has been so greatly altered by technology.

I like to think we are resilient and mostly good as a people and a nation, but I wonder what the effects of dwindling resources and threats to our way of life will have on our self-beliefs. The ugly side of humanity rears its ugly head when people are put under pressure, and we are being out under some great pressure these days but I don't think we've seen anything, only isolated cases. We need a major breakthrough to get us back on track, something to do with energy or transportation, to propel us into economic prosperity once again. Until that time I think we are in for a long overdue period of reflection and re-prioritizing. I hope so anyway. I like to think of this as a breather for us. We can do good things with these challenges, or we can allow them to break us down further. I still believe we can do good things, but it will have to be pretty radical. We can't just hang on desperately to the status quo and live in denial. I think Obama realizes this and I think he freaks a lot of people out with his messages of change, especially the kind of change that is going to cause a lot of discomfort before it the good is felt. Maybe like boot camp, this can create focus and discpline and give people a greater cause and bring us together for real, not just in cyberspace. Just my two cents. We need to get off our butts and get to work just like in the old days, lol. Especially the young people. Put them to work. I hope the infrastructure rebuilding helps achieve some of these things.
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#88 of 107 Old 04-11-2009, 03:46 PM
 
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Freespirited, I think you are making a lot of cause & effect relationships when they are really correlation. Believe me, the violence in the past was real and bad. Ask any African-American living in 1950. Even today, African-Americans still experience violent reprisals. Child predators haven't 'gotten better'. In fact, I think they are finally being brought out into the open & punished. Back in the good ole days, little Jill or Johnny just had too much imagination. And was sinful due to thinking of such 'horrible, sexual things'. Think of all the Catholic priest molestation charges brought in the 80s by GROWN men & women. Men & women who would have otherwised suffered in silence. Violence against women was much more widespread, and worse, ACCEPTED as normal. Maybe she shouldn't have 'angered' her husband. As far as parents killing their own children--always happened, always will. The only difference? Back 'then' it would be 'unthinkable' to question the parents. Now, due to research, we realize that when children go missing, the parents are the first suspects. Ugly but true. Anyway, I can go on & on. Violence & doing horrible things to each other is not new, nor has there been a recent 'upsurge'.

Oh, and you whole "shootings increasing since the 80s" meaning the weakening of the moral fiber? Nope. If you go with the theory that less resources equals greater competition and violence (and I agree it does), then it's not surprising that all of this started in the 80s. Real American wages stagnated in the 70s. They haven't kept pace since then, no matter the inflation rates. Think about it--the 80s were the beginning of this stress. No moral fiber involved. If you don't see a way out, then most people give up caring. Wage stagnation has only gotten worse since then. And the less people can maintain their level or stay ahead, the more will become violent. I know, because I can see, that my son will have a harder time staying middle class than I will. And I, as a 27yr old, have a harder time than my parents did. College degrees are being required for everything, and they no longer qualify you for a 'good paying job' upon graduation. So now, we are paying to be further behind than someone in 1960 with a free high school diploma was. Not good.

Something has to give, but I'm not sure what. Personally I think it's more about families, really. I know my mom grew up in the 70s living with her parents & her grandmother. Extended families have been frowned upon since after WWII. It's sad, because the support & help & safety net family provided is no longer there. Young people, who are currently out of work or working in low paying jobs, are the ones having babies. And that's NATURAL. Any society should be worried about the next generation. The thing is we have thrown these young families to the wind. Low paying job, on top of having kids is hard. How many are worried about daycare? How many parents are forced to let strangers watch their kids the majority of the day. And grandma, who is slowing down & needs help, is on her own too. Before, Grandma & Grandpa knew they could live with their kids. They might not be able to run up & down stairs, but they could definitely deal with young children. It was a good, symbiotic relationship. It wasn't all roses, and for some people with toxic families, unattainable, but in most cases it helped those who were vulnerable--children, young adults and grandparents. I think that until it becomes acceptable and expected for extended families to live together again, not much will change.

Ami

Wife to dh, Mommy to my heavenly angel, J (06), and my earthly angels, S (07) and E (10)

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#89 of 107 Old 04-11-2009, 03:50 PM
 
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Great post, JTA mom. I totally agree with everything you said, only I couldn't have said it nearly as well.
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#90 of 107 Old 04-11-2009, 04:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freespirited View Post
I still believe we can do good things, but it will have to be pretty radical. We can't just hang on desperately to the status quo and live in denial. I think Obama realizes this and I think he freaks a lot of people out with his messages of change, especially the kind of change that is going to cause a lot of discomfort before it the good is felt. Maybe like boot camp, this can create focus and discpline and give people a greater cause and bring us together for real, not just in cyberspace. Just my two cents. We need to get off our butts and get to work just like in the old days, lol. Especially the young people. Put them to work. I hope the infrastructure rebuilding helps achieve some of these things.
That to me is radical. WHO decides what is the right way to live? Other Governments had camps also....
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