intentionally NOT saving for your child's college? - Page 11 - Mothering Forums
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#301 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 12:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
Nope, I never saved a dime for my kids education. We will, however, provide them with a place to live (at home or elsewhere) and pay for that as long as they're in school. Tuition and books are their responsibility, through scholarships, student loans, grants, working, or other means. My parents got RESP's for all their grandkids and it looks like many of them won't even be using it.

This would be us, too. We will support them in any way that we can, but providing for their education will be their responsibility. I know it's cold and heartless, but I believe that they will value it much more if they work for it.
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#302 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 01:28 PM
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So...why are there so many narrow-minded people with advanced degrees? Why do I personally know PhDs who can't think outside the box to save their lives...and who are more ignorant than me about pretty much everything outside their specialty? I've known multiple people who have degrees who say they learn more in a year of just living than they did during their whole time at school. Learning and formal education are not the same thing....
Seriously? so many narrow minded people with degrees? Phds who are ignorant? If you don't value post-secondary education, don't go. But don't run down people who did go.
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#303 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 01:37 PM
 
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Also, I should clarify that while I do consider higher education to be important, I also plan to encourage my children to take time off directly following high school. My hope for them is to help expose them to the different varieties of life. Maybe they will go backpacking around the world, or maybe they will join the Peace Corps. After a couple years off, then they should enter university. Whatever they plan to do after university is fine and dandy by me...as long as they get that education.
Someone else already addressed this, but I wanted to second it: to join the Peace Corps as a young person, you need a college degree.

Now, as someone who considers it a must for my kids to go to college and one who considers my three years in Peace Corps to be one of the highlights of my life, I hope my kids will think about that same path (If the Peace Corps is still around, that is).

Although I got a job in my field right out of college, I wasn't really ready to settle down and enter the world of traditional work. I wanted travel and adventure. And because I had that degree, I was able to get my fill of both, thanks to the taxpayers of the USA.
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#304 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 03:19 PM
 
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We intentionally don't save for our children's educations because DH works in higher education. One of the perks is that many colleges and universities offer free tuition for dependents. His current employer does. :

When he (and I) have looked for work in the field before we always interviewed with the colleges and universities that offered this benefit and plan to continue to do so in the future as well.
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#305 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 03:40 PM
 
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I perused half and skimmed the rest. Two questions jumped out at me:

1. For those of you that assume your kids will value their higher education more if they pay, why are you doing assuming the worst from your children? Why not assume they will be responsible and on the chance that they need to pay their own way to push them into taking it seriously just not pay?

2. For those of you who think it is a waste of time (for whatever reason was listed), is it the cost that negates the process?

FTR, I don't care if my boys go to college or not. I'm confident that they will find something to do that is satisfying and meaningful. But we do have money in college funds to help them go to whichever college they choose, if they want to do so.
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#306 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 05:35 PM
 
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That's fine if your child will qualify. Ours won't. We make too much money now for many grant programs, and our income should go up significantly by the time the kids are college-aged.
Well just to address the first part: you and/or your spouse have income, not your children, right? As far as I understand it, whether your income factors into their qualifying for federal grants totally depends upon the legal (often tax related) relationship you have with them after they turn 18. I would check into the specifics if you have questions about it.

Now, if you are saving for private top notch schools--yes private funds would help. However, even there, few Americans make enough money to cover the cost of 4 years of private college out of pocket. Financial aid and/or scholarships are play a big role for most students.

Again, it really is good to look into it carefully, and not assume your children won't qualify, kwim?

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#307 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 05:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heartmama View Post
Well just to address the first part: Unless they are independently wealthy (due to trusts, inheritance etc.), or unless you continue to claim them as dependents after the age of 18 (legally, as in for tax purposes), your income will not matter when they apply for federal grants as long as they are filing tax returns as independents.
This is not true, and has not been true for many years.

EVEN if they are filing their taxes independently and you are not claiming them as dependent, federal financial aid regulations require a consideration of the parent's income as support for undergrad work until the age of 25, unless . . .

- the person is supporting a dependent of his or her own
- the person has been in military service
- the _school_ allows them to claim emancipation from parental aid for financial aid reasons. Back in the 1990s, nobody I knew who went for this option succeeded. I knew people who were kicked out of their parent's house at 16-18 who were unable to proceed with their college education until after age 24, for this exact reason. Their parents wouldn't support them, but they couldn't get financial aid independently for their undergrad work.

- ahh, forgot the fourth. The person is married, in which case their spouse's income counts. I know people who were recommended to get married to their also college age bf/gf in order to receive financial aid for both.

Whether a student lives in his own home or apartment and/or claims himself as an exemption on his federal income tax return has nothing to do with a student being considered independent for financial aid purposes.

The only way a student can become independent for financial aid purposes (which means the custodial parents' income and asset information are not required on the FAFSA) is if the student meets at least one of the following guidelines:

* Student must be over 24 years of age; or

* The student must be married; or

* The student must have a child or other dependents who receive more than half their support from the student; or

* The student must be enrolled as a graduate student (master's, doctoral) or professional student (medicine, dentistry, or law); or

* The student must be a qualified veteran of the U.S. military or be active duty in the U.S. military; or

* The student must be an orphan (parents deceased) or ward of the court or was a ward of the court until age 18.

If you do not meet any of these criteria for independent students, you are considered a dependent student and must provide your parents’ information on your FAFSA, or your FAFSA will be rejected.


http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/FOTWWebApp/f...S&wstype=WSDEP
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#308 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 05:58 PM
 
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We started a 529 plan for DD when she was a few weeks old. Since then we've contributed regularly and any cash gift she gets goes in there as well.

DH and I plan to help as much as we can with DD's college tuition. One of the best gifts my parents gave me was paying for my college tuition. I won a few academic scholarships and I worked part-time all throughout college and grad school but the lion's share of the bills were borne by my parents who did it without taking out loans. Thanks to their generosity I graduated with no debt. That helped DH and I when we married so that we could buy our own car outright, afford a place of our own, and later get a good mortgage for a home in an area of town we liked.

On the other hand, unlike my situation, DH was saddled with a lot of college student loan debt when we married. His parents didn't give one dime for his college education so consequently he had big loans to pay off. It was a big source of stress for him. He wishes his parents had saved up more money. Their both BIG spenders. It's not that they couldn't save the money. They had the money. However, they chose instead of buy fancy cars, live lavishly, gamble, get married 3-5 times each, etc. His dad's attitude was "college is for people who want to be permanent students." We're still paying off DH's last two loans although thankfully they're at a manageable amount now. It's very important to DH that we not leave DD in the same situation. College tuition is so expensive now. I don't want to saddle DD with a triple digit student loan if I can help her financially. I fully expect her to get her own car, her own home, etc. but when it comes to college I look at the great gift my parents gave me by paying for my education and I look at what DH's parents did and I want to do what my parents did. I expect my child to work part-time in college to help with some of the expenses but we'll do what we can.

Without the degrees we have, DH and I wouldn't have the jobs we do now. My employer looked at all my transcripts including my undegrad transcript. He later told me that the grades I had as an undergrad convinced him to hire me. I really buckled down in college and good very good grades. I don't know how it is elsewhere but a degree open doors here. I wouldn't be where I am today in my profession if I didn't graduate from college.

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#309 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 08:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cschick View Post
This is not true, and has not been true for many years.

EVEN if they are filing their taxes independently and you are not claiming them as dependent, federal financial aid regulations require a consideration of the parent's income as support for undergrad work until the age of 25, unless . . .

- the person is supporting a dependent of his or her own
- the person has been in military service
- the _school_ allows them to claim emancipation from parental aid for financial aid reasons. Back in the 1990s, nobody I knew who went for this option succeeded. I knew people who were kicked out of their parent's house at 16-18 who were unable to proceed with their college education until after age 24, for this exact reason. Their parents wouldn't support them, but they couldn't get financial aid independently for their undergrad work.

- ahh, forgot the fourth. The person is married, in which case their spouse's income counts. I know people who were recommended to get married to their also college age bf/gf in order to receive financial aid for both.

Whether a student lives in his own home or apartment and/or claims himself as an exemption on his federal income tax return has nothing to do with a student being considered independent for financial aid purposes.

The only way a student can become independent for financial aid purposes (which means the custodial parents' income and asset information are not required on the FAFSA) is if the student meets at least one of the following guidelines:

* Student must be over 24 years of age; or

* The student must be married; or

* The student must have a child or other dependents who receive more than half their support from the student; or

* The student must be enrolled as a graduate student (master's, doctoral) or professional student (medicine, dentistry, or law); or

* The student must be a qualified veteran of the U.S. military or be active duty in the U.S. military; or

* The student must be an orphan (parents deceased) or ward of the court or was a ward of the court until age 18.

If you do not meet any of these criteria for independent students, you are considered a dependent student and must provide your parents’ information on your FAFSA, or your FAFSA will be rejected.


http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/FOTWWebApp/f...S&wstype=WSDEP

Just wanted to add that I know this to be true at least for my brother, he lived at home and initially my folks had no plans to pay anything towards his college cost. But he still had to use their tax and income info because he was under 24 and living at home. He had a job at one point, did his own taxes and still needed my folks info.

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#310 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 10:37 PM
 
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This is basically Harvard, Princeton, and maybe one or two others right now ... very highly competitive schools. We are saving for college because we can't count on having a Harvard undergrad kid.
Actually there are a number of selective liberal arts colleges that do that too...the numbers are way higher than 3-5. My alma mater (Claremont McKenna) is one too...the number of institutions offering it is probably less than 25, but more than 10
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#311 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 10:42 PM
 
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Actually there are a number of selective liberal arts colleges that do that too...the numbers are way higher than 3-5. My alma mater (Claremont McKenna) is one too...the number of institutions offering it is probably less than 25, but more than 10
These institutions have seen the value of their endowments plummet in the last year or two. It is highly unlikely that they will be giving too many folks a free ride in the future.
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#312 of 324 Old 06-19-2009, 11:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cschick View Post
- the _school_ allows them to claim emancipation from parental aid for financial aid reasons. Back in the 1990s, nobody I knew who went for this option succeeded. I knew people who were kicked out of their parent's house at 16-18 who were unable to proceed with their college education until after age 24, for this exact reason. Their parents wouldn't support them, but they couldn't get financial aid independently for their undergrad work.
That's not entirely accurate. If the courts have declared you to be emancipated then the schools are legally bound to accept that and it is valid for financial aid qualifications. My stepdad and his ex did this with my stepbrother when he was around 17 yrs old. I don't recall all the specifics, but it had something to do with not wanting to be liable for all the speeding tickets and legal things (I wasn't that old, I didn't know all the details). They were successful however they did it and he was legally considered on his own at that time, including for financial aid purposes.
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#313 of 324 Old 06-20-2009, 10:09 AM
 
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Right, but that was done before his 18th birthday, before a FAFSA is typically filled out. You can have not seen or talked to your parents for a decade, but unless something is legally done before you turn 18, you are on the hook to provide their financial information on the FAFSA.

My friend A has been on her own since she was almost 17. Her crazy@$$ mom has consistently refused to provide A with the tax info she's needed for the FASFA. She started school 2.5 years ago, finally, because she turned 24.

An old boyfriend and his sisters were up a similar creek when their mom died. They had little to do with their dad, he paid child support and their mom claimed the kids on her taxes. When she died, when the kids were in high school, they were able to use her tax info for one year only- the year that she died. After that, the kids were expected to use their dad's tax info- even though they hadn't lived with him for 10 years and saw him once or twice a year, and after their 18th birthdays, he gave them no financial support whatsoever. They all were just SOL.

If you are legally empancipated prior to your 18th birthday, a ward of the state immediately prior to your 18th birthday, currently married, currently claiming a dependent yourself (that is, a parent), or currently in the military, you don't have to provide your parents tax info.

However, if those things change, you revert back to needed your parents tax info. An old friend was in the 101st Airborne, broke his leg on a jump, and got a general dishcharge. He was 21. After he came home, he had to claim his parents income. The next year, he got married. That lasted all of nine months. The academic year after his divorce (he was 23), he had to claim his parents income. Even though he was a divorced, homeowning veteran. Silly.

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#314 of 324 Old 06-20-2009, 10:11 AM
 
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There sure are differing opinions here!

My 2cents worth - if you save for college, you put control of the education options in the hands of the child and family team. If you don't save, you loose control - you are depending on financial aid rules, university endowments, student loan rules, emancipation rules, future earning power and other things you have no influence over.

My child's option to go to college is important to our family, so we save for it.
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#315 of 324 Old 06-20-2009, 12:07 PM
 
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Right, but that was done before his 18th birthday, before a FAFSA is typically filled out. You can have not seen or talked to your parents for a decade, but unless something is legally done before you turn 18, you are on the hook to provide their financial information on the FAFSA.

My friend A has been on her own since she was almost 17. Her crazy@$$ mom has consistently refused to provide A with the tax info she's needed for the FASFA. She started school 2.5 years ago, finally, because she turned 24.

An old boyfriend and his sisters were up a similar creek when their mom died. They had little to do with their dad, he paid child support and their mom claimed the kids on her taxes. When she died, when the kids were in high school, they were able to use her tax info for one year only- the year that she died. After that, the kids were expected to use their dad's tax info- even though they hadn't lived with him for 10 years and saw him once or twice a year, and after their 18th birthdays, he gave them no financial support whatsoever. They all were just SOL.

If you are legally empancipated prior to your 18th birthday, a ward of the state immediately prior to your 18th birthday, currently married, currently claiming a dependent yourself (that is, a parent), or currently in the military, you don't have to provide your parents tax info.

However, if those things change, you revert back to needed your parents tax info. An old friend was in the 101st Airborne, broke his leg on a jump, and got a general dishcharge. He was 21. After he came home, he had to claim his parents income. The next year, he got married. That lasted all of nine months. The academic year after his divorce (he was 23), he had to claim his parents income. Even though he was a divorced, homeowning veteran. Silly.
You had listed the ways a student could have their parents income excluded. I wasn't arguing with you, just mentioning that if you are legally emancipated by the courts, then that counts as well. That one wasn't in your list and was worth mentioning- that's all.
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#316 of 324 Old 06-20-2009, 02:54 PM
 
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You had listed the ways a student could have their parents income excluded. I wasn't arguing with you, just mentioning that if you are legally emancipated by the courts, then that counts as well. That one wasn't in your list and was worth mentioning- that's all.
IDK why the legal emancipation/ward of the state exceptions aren't listed on the FAFSA website... maybe because more people would exploit these options if they were well known? Nonetheless, I also know someone who was an emancipated minor, as well as a couple foster kids (one of whom declined being adopted at age 16 because she wanted financial aid) who didn't have to claim a parent's income.

If I had it to over again, I would have married my high school friend R. We didn't realize at the time how much of a difference it would have made. I know a lot of people have ethical problems with "name only" marriages, but being as how R is gay and not permitted to legally marry the person he's actually in love with, I wouldn't have had a problem doing something that would've greatly benefited both of us.

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#317 of 324 Old 06-21-2009, 03:12 AM
 
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Well just to address the first part: you and/or your spouse have income, not your children, right? As far as I understand it, whether your income factors into their qualifying for federal grants totally depends upon the legal (often tax related) relationship you have with them after they turn 18. I would check into the specifics if you have questions about it.
Nope. My DH and I were married when we were 18/19 and we never recieved a dime from our parents thereafter, and lived independently, but sitll had to submit their taxes, etc, every year throughout college.

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#318 of 324 Old 06-21-2009, 05:18 AM
 
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We're intentionally not saving for our children's college. Instead, we are putting that extra money into our savings and into our retirement. Plus, we're going to be buying our first home soon and want to put extra towards that.

I hope to help our kids out a bit when they go to college, but over all that's their responsibility. They can get loans and work to pay those loans off once they graduate. I can't "borrow" my retirement funds. They can borrow their education funds.

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#319 of 324 Old 06-21-2009, 10:45 AM
 
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We have a couple 529 accounts for my parents to gift the kids money for college. We are also saving for retirement and planning to borrow for college like my parents did for me. I also got work study and stafford loans and went to a state school.

There's a trend now for kids to go to community college the first 2 yrs and complete their gen-eds before finishing the degree at a 'real' university. Great way to save a lot of money. Also I want my kids to be able to earn scholarships. If they have some responsibility to pay themselves I believe they'll work harder and not just become party boys, wasting my money.

We are considering buying another property when the kids are older. Having more debt seems to get you more financial aid. Being responsible and saving tons of money for school means you get to pay the full amount.
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#320 of 324 Old 06-21-2009, 05:00 PM
 
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Nope. My DH and I were married when we were 18/19 and we never recieved a dime from our parents thereafter, and lived independently, but sitll had to submit their taxes, etc, every year throughout college.
Ack now I'm totally confused

Well, somebody needs to check the current FAFSA regulations because it can't be both ways, can it? Someone else just quoted FAFSA as saying that marriage could exempt you from claiming parental income...

Lucky for ds both his parents will probably still be full time students when he turns 18. I'm sure he'll get enough financial aid to pay for community college.

Also, our state has some merit based state scholarships that are related to income but not exclusively for lower income students like FAFSA...it's always good to carefully check what merit based scholarships are available in your state.

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#321 of 324 Old 06-21-2009, 06:17 PM
 
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Things changed in the early 90s, so the timeline may be a factor in the whole marriage exemption.

Or, maybe the college that the pp attended was confused.

I just graduated college in December, and I can tell you unequivocally that being married was a game changer for me, financial aid wise.

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#322 of 324 Old 06-21-2009, 08:56 PM
 
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I don't know if we're talking about FAFSA rules here- my college required me to submit parental info, not necessariy FAFSA. I went to an Ivy League, and I was there 2001-2005.

It may have just been their private policy.

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#323 of 324 Old 06-21-2009, 09:22 PM
 
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http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/fotw0910/help/ffdef09.htm

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These questions are asked to determine whether you are a dependent or an independent student on the FAFSA.

If you answer "No" to every question below, you are considered a dependent student and must provide your parents' information.

If you can answer "Yes" to at least one of the questions below, you are considered an independent student.

Note: Health profession students may be required to provide parental information regardless of their dependency status.

Were you born before January 1, 1986?

As of today, are you married?

At the beginning of 2009-2010 school year, will you be working on a master's or doctorate program (such as an MA, MBA, MD, JD, PhD, EdD, or graduate certificate, etc.)?

Are you currently serving on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces for purposes other than training?

Are you a veteran of the U.S. Armed Forces?

Do you have children who will receive more than half of their support from you between July 1, 2009, and June 30, 2010?

Do you have dependents (other than your children or spouse) who live with you and who receive more than half of their support from you, now and through June 30, 2010?

At any time since you turned age 13, were both your parents deceased, were you in foster care or were you a dependent or ward of the court?

Are you, or were you an emancipated minor as determined by a court in your state of legal residence?

Are you, or were you in legal guardianship as determined by a court in your state of legal residence?

At any time on or after July 1, 2008, did your high school or school district homeless liaison determine that you were an unaccompanied youth who was homeless?
At any time on or after July 1, 2008, did the director of an emergency shelter or transitional housing program funded by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development determine that you were an unaccompanied youth who was homeless?
At any time or or after July 1, 2008, did the director of a runaway or homeless youth basic center or transitional living program determine that you were an unaccompained youth who was homeless or were self-supporting and at risk of being homeless?
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#324 of 324 Old 06-27-2009, 01:00 AM
 
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We are not saving for our kids college right now and won't through a college savings plan, that way there are not penalties if they do go to college (I am betting that taxes will be up in 14 years).

I haven't read the whole thread, this may have been said by others, but my feelings are not everyone needs to go to college.

I hope to some day when we have saved and are debt free to be able to invest some money for our children, if they are responsible adults to be able to give to them for a house, college, or just savings for themselves.

Stephanie married to Jerry  partners.gif  mama to  modifiedartist.gif (10) and superhero.gif(7) and 3rdtri.gif
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