TEN- YES, 10 over draft fees UPDATE pg3 #56 - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 03:38 PM
 
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I also don't think the bank did anything wrong. It's a common policy, and one I'm sure they have in writing and that you agreed to. It stinks, but they're not at fault for anything.
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#62 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 04:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lilgsmommy View Post
This is who we use too! We especially love the lower overdraft fee, and the money we get back every month from using ATMs. After the first of the year we will be getting our insurance through them too.
This is off topic for the thread, but I have my insurance through them too. I was paying $100 a month for liability ONLY through AmFam, and now I'm paying $27 a month. For better coverage, too. I love their insurance.

Plus, they'll insure overseas, too, and we're moving to Korea. Not taking our car, but we're considering buying one over there.

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#63 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 06:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SubliminalDarkness
I also don't think the bank did anything wrong. It's a common policy, and one I'm sure they have in writing and that you agreed to. It stinks, but they're not at fault for anything.


I guess I don't understand why you are so incensed at the bank. The bank has set fees, which they are required by law to disclose to you in writing (those circulars mailed to you that you might choose not to read). You chose to use a bank, this bank. They charged the fees as they said, for the reasons they said they would.

It's kinda like if I choose to park in my city's pricy downtown. The posted signs tell me about their rates including that there is a late-release charge. If I choose to park there, I know I have to pay the parking rate. AND if I choose further to break their rules and stay after they close the gate at the lot, then I'll have to pay a ridiculously high fee to have them open the gate and release my car. Or similarly, if I stay past my quarter on the street and my car gets towed, I'd have to pay high towing and impoundment charges. And it would be my own fault.

The bank isn't a charity - it's a business. If you choose to transact business there, then you have to pay their charges for the services they provide. Don't like it? Bank elsewhere, or not at all.

FWIW, I do use a private bank. No, I don't pay overdraft fees, because I choose not to bounce checks.

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#64 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 07:44 PM
 
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People are incensed at the banks because it's just another knife in the back of the american consumer. Predatory practices that do nothing but make them richer and screw us. It's been all over the news lately, on the Today Show & Nightly News, even my local news has been doing stories about it.

The banks purposely hold checks, purposely run the biggest charges first, even if they come in later than smaller charges. That way, if you have $200 in your account, and you run $205 worth of charges, they'll run the biggest charge first which may take you close to your limit and then the 20 little charges you have throughout the time. Then they get the maximum # of overdrafts. It's predatory, end of story.

Obviously the OP realizes this is her fault, but there are plenty of times when it is not the fault of the customer. It is "creative" banking at it's "finest" and it screws all of us.

We keep a savings account and overdraft protection comes out of it. So we rarely have fees. Of course, we keep about 6 accounts with this one bank and it is very good to us. They are good people, but I feel lucky that we found them. And that they haven't been (knock on wood) bought up by another yuckier bank.
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#65 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 07:49 PM
 
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We have accounts with two banks. Paycheck goes into one, other stuff comes out of the other. Every payday I write a cheque from one to the other.

Bank 2 called me today, the last cheque was returned. I have overdraft protection but went over that limit too. They are not charging me anything, nor bouncing anything. There was money to cover the cheque. Except. I grabbed a chequebook for an account we closed 18 months ago and wrote on that. Bank 1 is not charging me anything for it either.

I have since deposited a correct cheque, with funds behind it, to bank 2.
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#66 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 07:52 PM
 
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This is my former bank's overdraft policy:

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When you do not have enough available funds in your account to cover a check or other item, then we consider the check or other item an insufficient funds item. If you have enrolled in one of our overdraft protection plans and have enough available coverage under the plan, we transfer funds to cover the item. Otherwise, we may, without notice to you and in our sole discretion, either pay or permit the insufficient funds item and overdraw your account or we may return, decline or reject the insufficient funds item without payment. In any case, we may charge you a fee for each insufficient funds item whether we pay, permit, return, decline or reject the item. We may also charge you an overdraft fee for overdrafts created by fees or by deposited items that are returned to us unpaid. The applicable overdraft item fee and returned item fee is listed in the Schedule of Fees for your account.
BTW the NSF and the OD fee are both $35. So it doesn't really matter what they do. You are probably better off paying the OD so you don't have to pay the fee to the merchant as well.

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When you do not have enough available funds to pay all checks and other items on a given day, we may pay or permit one or more checks or other items, and decline, reject or return others, in any order we deem appropriate.
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We may determine in our discretion the order of processing and posting deposits, fees, charges, checks, debits and other items to your account. We may credit, accept, pay, certify or return deposits, fees, charges, checks, debits and other items arriving to your account on the same day in any order at our option. We may give preference to any fees, charges, checks, debits or other items payable to us. We may change our processing and posting orders at any time without notice to you.

We may establish categories for fees, charges, checks, debits and other items and designate a posting priority for each category. A category may include more than one type of item. For example, we may treat atm withdrawals and loan payments as one category and checks as another category and then process atm withdrawals and loan payments before checks. Within each category, we may process and post items in any order we choose. We may use the same or different orders for different categories. We may change categories and orders within categories at any time without notice.
IMO it's all this without notice that is so unethical. I banked with my former bank since I was 10 years old and had my first past book savings account. I have had pretty much the same banking habits for about 8 years, and only in the last few months because changes that were made without notice, did I start having any sort of problems.
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#67 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 08:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Seasons View Post
The bank has set fees, which they are required by law to disclose to you in writing (those circulars mailed to you that you might choose not to read). You chose to use a bank, this bank. They charged the fees as they said, for the reasons they said they would.
My former bank only discloses the amount of the fee, not the practices or policies they use to charge them.
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#68 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 08:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CariOfOz View Post
Yikes! Reading all these posts on how the banks operate is skeery! Op it sucks that you're stuck with all those fees over simply forgetting to deposit a check Hopefully they will consider that and work with you eventually. Or just pack up and move to the nearest CU.

It doesn't seem like banks down here (aus) work that way.. if there isn't enough cash in my acct, the debit is declined. They will overdraft us the SECOND an automatic debit comes out though, if there isn't enough $ in the acct! *sometimes* they'll refund it though if the money was in transit to the acct (regular pay etc)
Hmm. If you simply "forget" to deposit a check, the error is on your side, not the side of the bank.

Yes, it sucks, but I am guessing the OP won't forget again. That's life.
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#69 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 09:15 PM
 
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I say keep looking for a bank that will take the "overdraft protection" off your account. That way, if you don't have any money, you'll immediately know b/c your card will be rejected and won't get any overdraft fees.
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#70 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 09:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mesa View Post
This is off topic for the thread, but I have my insurance through them too. I was paying $100 a month for liability ONLY through AmFam, and now I'm paying $27 a month. For better coverage, too. I love their insurance.

Plus, they'll insure overseas, too, and we're moving to Korea. Not taking our car, but we're considering buying one over there.
Thier insurance is definitly a better way to go. Ours will be about $30 lower than what we pay now...but we cant switch til we are out of our current 6 month coverage.
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#71 of 103 Old 09-18-2009, 10:52 PM
 
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How about when you have $$$ in savings and overdraft protection on your account but they don't transfer the money over to checking & then charge you fees anyways. Nice!

Sabrina , mom to 4 fab kids!

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#72 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 12:29 AM
 
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My bank messed up 2 of my deposits this summer, 2 months in a row. They transposed 2 digits in the deposits on my statement. (So my deposit, and the deposit slip, read "$473" but the statement read "$437.") This happened TWICE- 2 separate transactions in 2 separate months.

When I went to the bank to straighten it out, I only-half-jokingly asked when I could expect the bank to pay me a $35 accounting fee because, after all, if *I* had made such a mistake you can BET that I would have been charged out the wazoo. But because it was the bank's mistake? Nada.

If looks could kill, the teller would have done me in in a heartbeat.

Anyway- I've always kept a $1000 cushion in my checking account. Always. It's like that money isn't even there. And I've never used a debit card. I know DR advocates using debit, but after hearing these stories I'm glad I don't.

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#73 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 12:45 AM
 
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I hate banks, really really hate them. 6 years ago I had a teller screw up my deposit and it resulted in $180 worth of overdraft fees. I took all my proof to the bank and talked to a manager and he refused to admit they had any fault. I put money in the account to cover all my actual purchases and walked away. I left them with $180 negative balance and told them they'd never get a penny. I haven't heard form them but I can't have a checking account now because of that whole episode. Perfectly fine with me.

I had a Paypal account at the time and kept it. I now use Paypal for most everything, if there isn't money in teh account teh debit card wont go through.

I did recently have to get a savings account because my YMCA membership is a bank draft, you either draft it monthly or pay the entire amount up front for a year. I just toss in money each month for that only. Otherwise I cash all my checks and pay every bill in cash in person.

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#74 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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yes we did go over. we made a mistake, it is not a mistake that should cost us $360. i dont mind paying a fee, i do mind paying an fee of this size. its just an unfair number.

and for what its worth, the first 5 charges we were not over, but they were all in the same day as the 6th card, which brought us over. they put this 6th charge first and then made me pay the fee for the last 5, plus all the rest.

it wasnt like for weeks we were using our card with no money. it wasnt like we were ignoring their calls or not responding to their emails. it was 2 days. we had absolutely no idea what was happening. our card kept coming back "accepted" and that was all there was to it.

and also, my bank does not take money from another account. we happen to have another account there that had more than enough money to cover this. they did not transfer, not would not tranfer in the future. also, they do not have lines of credit that would be used for this either. its either you dont, or you do and if you dont, you get charges, again and again and again

its not ethical

with love, bailey...
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#75 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 01:19 AM
 
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Wow. I had no idea people had so many problems with banks!

Dh regularly has overdrafts (sometimes, esp over a weekend, multiple charges) because he never keeps a register. He does everything in his head, and quite often forgets purchases, so he thinks he has more money than he does. Or he'll call the bank to find out his available balance and that will be how much he thinks he has to spend (without taking into account pending transactions). He costs us quite a bit at $40 a pop. But just about every time this happens, he calls the bank and they waive the fee (or, for multiples, up to half) even tho it's not the banks fault. (FTR, we have separate accounts for this reason).

And I can't tell you the last time I had an overdraft, other than a few months ago I switched digits in my register and thought I had a few dollars more than I did. Well, I had a charge go thru that ended up putting my balance in the negative by something like 22 cents. I didn't even know until a few days later when I got the overdraft notification letter in the mail and saw that the bank had automatically waived the fee based on my history and the fact that it was under a dollar.

So it boggles my mind that a bank won't waive all of the fees, esp if they are at fault! Sorry to hear about your situation - I know how frustrating it can be.

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#76 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 12:29 PM
 
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US banks are generally evil imo. We have an account at one major bank that we will be closing soon. We moved a couple months ago, and during the move I would hop online to check our available balance, because hey, moving can rack up quickly. On Friday we rented 2 trucks from 2 different places (one ended up not being enough). BOTH truck rentals showed up as pending, which was expected. Anytime there is a pending transaction, that amount is deducted from our available balance, that's the way this bank's online system works. So at a glance you know what's not already taken. Only what they ended up doing was *not* deducting one truck rental from the running balance. Since their policy has always been to deduct that amount, there's no reason we would have re-checked their math, kwim? So of course we thought we had $400 more than we did - and then they waited 3 days to have that one hit so we could get a couple od fees. Yes it would have been better if we'd kept a running register in the middle of the move, but we were using the tools provided by the bank and they changed the rules on them in the middle without warning.

Two days later a deposit was made for a significant amount. Even though their website says deposits may be held 3-5 business days, they decided to hold this one for 10 days. When I called, the reason it was held was because it was drawn on an out of state bank - even though the manager I spoke with did agree that St. Louis MISSOURI and Kansas City MISSOURI were indeed in the same state, and the originating locations of both bank accounts. He refused to release it sooner because we hadn't been customers for 1 yr - even though that had nothing to do with the hold reason whatsoever! The deposit cleared well before the 10 days, but we still had to wait, so they got free use of our money in an unauthorized loan for several days. In the meantime, we got hit with an additional $35 fee for being od for more than a week (nevermind they HAD the money by then!).

We are closing our account this week and going elsewhere. This may be legal (barely) but there is NOTHING ethical about this. I don't expect a bank to be charitable, they are after all a business, but this far exceeds acceptable business practices to me. And I can't help thinking, as much as they charge people and work their numbers to get the most in fees, why are we still having to bail them out again?
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#77 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Belia View Post
I know DR advocates using debit, but after hearing these stories I'm glad I don't.
I think he is going to stop, because of recent changes to debit card policies at most banks. Like I said, it didn't use to be possible to overdraft your account with a debit card unless you were also writing checks that the bank didn't know about. Now for your "convenience" banks are "willing" to lend you money to cover your debits. Only you aren't allowed to opt out and just be inconvenienced. And the banks can make as many changes to the rules, at any time, without telling you, because it says so right in their deposit agreement, which you agreed to.
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#78 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 03:48 PM
 
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Honestly, this whole thread is a PSA for using cash for day to day expenditures.

We use cash for nearly all gas, groceries, household (cleaning, health and beauty, medications), and entertainment expenses. It makes checkbook management so much easier (way fewer transactions) and would definely would have avoided the both the miscomunication about the check and a pile of overdraft on small dollar amounts purchases.

That being said I think that how the bank handled it was very smarmy of your bank and I'd be hunting down another one.
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#79 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 03:59 PM
 
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Did the OP ever say what bank she was dealing with? Not that it really matters, but I wanted to bring one thing to light, that some people may not know: some banks let you set up "alerts", so that you can get automatically generated e-mails or text messages about your accounts. There are a lot of options. I used to work for BofA, and there, you can set up your account to let you know if your available balance drops below X dollars (you choose X); when a direct deposit has posted; when a check has cleared; etc. You can even choose "account balance", but I think that would send you a text every time you make a purchase, which could get out of hand.

The bank branch that I worked for was on a college campus, and every time I set up a new account for a student, I made sure they chose the "balance under $10.00!" option, because I knew that as soon as they over-drafted, I'd be the one they'd come back to and that was never fun. Of course there's no way to know how many customers were saved fees with this program, but I think it helps a lot of people. If you are going to use a debit card rather than cash or credit, it's useful to have this back-up option.

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#80 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 04:05 PM
 
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With our credit union dh's check is direct deposited it is ours as soon as that happens.

When we use the card or overwrite a check it is covered with overwrite protection. The CU charges us a fee for this but we avoid the fee that we would be charged by the place that we used the card or wrote the check to. That is what overwrite protection means. We can overwrite up to $500.00 before the card is cut off.

We dont carry cash because we spend it to fast if we do.

Gas stations here do not have a hold policy thing they charge exactly what amount of gas we pump and it goes directly to the CU and out of the balance that day.

 
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#81 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 05:11 PM
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Honestly, this whole thread is a PSA for using cash for day to day expenditures.
Or credit cards. Well, that's what I do, anyway. That way I can make sure there's money in my checking account when I'm paying the credit card bills (they're all on autotransfer) but I don't have to worry much about my day to day balance. I only use my debit card for Aldi...

 
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#82 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 05:16 PM
 
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I OD 6 times once (for like $2) all the pending (debit) items were OD because they paid 1 item that was used with the credit option. The bank reversed 4 of them but it still cost me $70.

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#83 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 05:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by baileyann3 View Post
yes we did go over. we made a mistake, it is not a mistake that should cost us $360. i dont mind paying a fee, i do mind paying an fee of this size. its just an unfair number.

and for what its worth, the first 5 charges we were not over, but they were all in the same day as the 6th card, which brought us over. they put this 6th charge first and then made me pay the fee for the last 5, plus all the rest.

it wasnt like for weeks we were using our card with no money. it wasnt like we were ignoring their calls or not responding to their emails. it was 2 days. we had absolutely no idea what was happening. our card kept coming back "accepted" and that was all there was to it.

and also, my bank does not take money from another account. we happen to have another account there that had more than enough money to cover this. they did not transfer, not would not tranfer in the future. also, they do not have lines of credit that would be used for this either. its either you dont, or you do and if you dont, you get charges, again and again and again

its not ethical
its really not unfair. you made a mistake and now you pay the fees you agreed to when you opened your account. there are many things you could have done to be more responsible - like making sure the check was indeed there before spending money. if you choose to use a bank you choose to follow their rules. everything has fees anymore, people get irresponsible and others end up suffering for the mistakes. thats why there are so many fees. just play by the rules, know the rules, get in the habit of checking your acct online before leaving for the day or keep a ledger. check with dh before going out and make sure it got deposited, etc.
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#84 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 05:42 PM
 
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its really not unfair. you made a mistake and now you pay the fees you agreed to when you opened your account. there are many things you could have done to be more responsible - like making sure the check was indeed there before spending money. if you choose to use a bank you choose to follow their rules. everything has fees anymore, people get irresponsible and others end up suffering for the mistakes. thats why there are so many fees. just play by the rules, know the rules, get in the habit of checking your acct online before leaving for the day or keep a ledger. check with dh before going out and make sure it got deposited, etc.
I generally agree w/ personal responsibility and taking ownership for wrongdoing.

However, in the case of banks and overdraft charges they use computer programs designed to figure out which charges to go through first in order to make sure they can charge you the most amount of fees. That is why we have all these fees- they figured out a way to most effectively screw people. It is my understanding as well that this practice is coming under fire for the unscrupulous practice it is. If banks want to charge fees fine, but they need to take charges in the order given instead of arranging the acceptance of charges based on some model.

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#85 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 06:08 PM
 
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A good way to avoid this is to use your debit card with your PIN. That means it's considered like an ATM withdrawl and it's immediately deducted from your available balance. Just swiping your debit card (aka the credit function) means that sometimes it's several days before it's taken out of your account, depending on the merchant.

So, use your pin and don't just swipe it and sign. Makes a huge difference. I do this whenever possible. I'm surprised no one else on this thread has brought this up (or maybe I just wasn't reading quickly enough).

Check with your bank though - sometimes smaller ones (like my old bank) consider using your PIN when making a purchase to be a "foreign ATM fee" and will charge you - it was $1 at my old bank.

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#86 of 103 Old 09-19-2009, 06:08 PM
 
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Or credit cards. Well, that's what I do, anyway. That way I can make sure there's money in my checking account when I'm paying the credit card bills (they're all on autotransfer) but I don't have to worry much about my day to day balance. I only use my debit card for Aldi...
That works too, but I find it easier to be mindful of our budget with the green retangular stuff. If I used a credit card for everything I would have no idea how much spent this month to this point (I know YMMV and other input into Quicken or write it down on a 3X5 card and other methods of tracking).

Right now I know that we have spent 64% of this months budget (plus we have plenty of gas in each car). It took me about 3 seconds to figure that out and another 2 seconds to realize that that nearly exactly where you would expect to be with the number of days left in the month. The bonus is that I don't have to pay the credit card bill either if I charged nothing on it.
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#87 of 103 Old 09-20-2009, 03:03 AM
 
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Did the OP ever say what bank she was dealing with? Not that it really matters, but I wanted to bring one thing to light, that some people may not know: some banks let you set up "alerts", so that you can get automatically generated e-mails or text messages about your accounts. There are a lot of options. I used to work for BofA, and there, you can set up your account to let you know if your available balance drops below X dollars (you choose X); when a direct deposit has posted; when a check has cleared; etc.
If only they actually did this. I have several alerts set up on my account, and I only receive my alerts about 25% of the time. Sometimes I'm not somewhere where I can check my balance on the internet, and checking it by phone is not that convenient if you don't happen to have all your receipts with you to check the cleared amounts against. I signed up for text alerts because I thought it would be helpful to have more timely alerts for certain things like checks clearing or deposits clearing or whatever. But it's not helpful if you don't get the alert until it is too late for you to do something about the situation. Having a low balance alert doesn't do any good, even if they do text you, because of batch processing and the banks ever changing policies on how they clear different transactions on your account.
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#88 of 103 Old 09-20-2009, 04:26 AM
 
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maybe my thoughts are colored by having been in poverty most of my adult life, but i'm really pretty surprised at how many folks are wondering why the OP is upset!
one mistake may very well cost you, which is fine! but not your entire grocery budget's worth!

She got charged more in fees than the amount of money she overdrew--it may be legal, but it sure isn't ethical.

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#89 of 103 Old 09-20-2009, 04:37 AM
 
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I generally agree w/ personal responsibility and taking ownership for wrongdoing.

However, in the case of banks and overdraft charges they use computer programs designed to figure out which charges to go through first in order to make sure they can charge you the most amount of fees. That is why we have all these fees- they figured out a way to most effectively screw people. It is my understanding as well that this practice is coming under fire for the unscrupulous practice it is. If banks want to charge fees fine, but they need to take charges in the order given instead of arranging the acceptance of charges based on some model.
Well, yes, of course they try to charge the max they can. I've never viewed banks as having MY interest in mind - they are out to make a profit. I am responsible for making sure that I don't give the bank the opportunity to charge fees I don't want to pay, so it is up to me to time my deposits and withdrawals to avoid those fees.

Let's face it, the bank is not there to give me warm fuzzies, to the bank I am a source of revenue, and to me the bank is a source of services. With both sides knowing the terms, neither can really cry foul.
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#90 of 103 Old 09-20-2009, 06:27 AM
 
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Well, regardless of what they want to do I think they have an obligation to be ethical and I believe that such practices should not be legal. That being said I have never had an overdraft charge, so it is not as if this is something personal to me. Of course we should all try to avoid being in a position to be assessed charges, that is common sense, but if it happens the banks shouldn't be allowed to do such things- they do not have some constitutional right to make money by cheating people and if that is how they want to make money it needs to be done w/ full disclosure- not trying to hide the practice away.

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