Saved $16 but feeling a little guilty - Page 11 - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-01-2007, 10:28 PM
 
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I should clarify also that I never said ppl who go to wm are awful or don't care or whatnot. Target gives mone to the republicans, yuck, but I shop there anyhow. All I am saying is ppl make choices and we should all own those choices.

Megan Davidson, Labor & Postpartum Doula, Breastfeeding Counselor, Anthropologist, Mom to August (9) and Clay (4), Partner to Shawn.

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Old 08-01-2007, 10:32 PM
 
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When use words like "everyone" and then you know right from this thread that there are people telling you differently... well, you are not hearing them or what? They're liars? They don't exist, they're not part of "everyone"? OR you're taking your reality, made up your values and experiences, and superimposing them on other people with ALL or NOTHING statements; further, coupled with the context of this thread, that WM is evil (and I do agree) that anyone who does not walk on water or sprout wings to fly somewhere else to shop fails at life. Ok, I admit to the hyperbole at the end but gimme a Kit-Kat bar already!
I am typing one handed with babby so not able to spew anger as fast, bear with me ....

They are not liars nor not part of everyone nor expected to fly. The are making choices. We all do. We might make cjoices we don't like or feel one thing is the best of several bad options, etc but we all make choices. No one is forced to shop at wm.

Megan Davidson, Labor & Postpartum Doula, Breastfeeding Counselor, Anthropologist, Mom to August (9) and Clay (4), Partner to Shawn.

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Old 08-01-2007, 10:34 PM
 
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Hi, Nantahala,

This is my post that you responded to with the above comments:

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Originally Posted by Rainbowbird
Sorry, I will go with making a difference where I can. And if that means a boycott, that is what I will do with my money.

I think it's sad that you don't think it is important to try to make a difference. Boycotts can work and even if WalMart is not the only evil company in the world, at least I am making a small dent in their practices with my hard-earned money.

And could we all please remember that this thread is about WalMart, after all? So if someone is saying Wal-Mart is bad, good, or indifferent, those are all relevant parts of the thread. For Heaven's sake!

So maybe you wrote back to me by mistake? At any rate no hard feelings and thanks for the link to the book.
Oy! Too much quoting, yes, I meant to quote the above with my last post to you. I need a quote-handler.

The book is SO so good. I cannot recommend it enough, I wish it were getting more attention because the information is incredible.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:34 PM
 
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I am typing one handed with babby so not able to spew anger as fast, bear with me ....

They are not liars nor not part of everyone nor expected to fly. The are making choices. We all do. We might make cjoices we don't like or feel one thing is the best of several bad options, etc but we all make choices. No one is forced to shop at wm.
true, some people could choose to not have anything to feed their kids.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:41 PM
 
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I am typing one handed with babby so not able to spew anger as fast, bear with me ....

They are not liars nor not part of everyone nor expected to fly. The are making choices. We all do. We might make cjoices we don't like or feel one thing is the best of several bad options, etc but we all make choices. No one is forced to shop at wm.
Not everyone has the same set of choices. Choice is often directly proportional with variables like location, transportation, money, etc. A choice is not a choice is not a choice. I'd love to eat 100% local organic but other variables hider that choice in ways I can't just change with a snap of some fingers.

And if you mean handcuffs, whips and chains, yes, I agree no one is forced to shop at Wal-Mart or any of the box stores.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:45 PM
 
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Not everyone has the same set of choices. Choice is often directly proportional with variables like location, transportation, money, etc. A choice is not a choice is not a choice. I'd love to eat 100% local organic but other variables hider that choice in ways I can't just change with a snap of some fingers.
True. I don't disagree. Sometimes we have to make choices about changing or choices. I suspect you and I would actually get along. My friends went to the conference of the4 same title as that book. I also think it is wonderful.

Megan Davidson, Labor & Postpartum Doula, Breastfeeding Counselor, Anthropologist, Mom to August (9) and Clay (4), Partner to Shawn.

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Old 08-01-2007, 10:50 PM
 
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True. I don't disagree. Sometimes we have to make choices about changing or choices. I suspect you and I would actually get along. My friends went to the conference of the4 same title as that book. I also think it is wonderful.
No doubt, no doubt. I'm not meaning to personalize any of this in a "I don't like you I am taking my ball away" fashion. Disregard me if I come off that way. I am working on "tone" it's not my forté.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:53 PM
 
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Ahh! It's you! I just saw you picture and we know eachother

i am being inarticulate one handed with cranky newborn

Megan Davidson, Labor & Postpartum Doula, Breastfeeding Counselor, Anthropologist, Mom to August (9) and Clay (4), Partner to Shawn.

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Old 08-01-2007, 11:51 PM
 
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true, some people could choose to not have anything to feed their kids.


Apparently thats now a choice that is acceptable to make, as long as we're not shopping at walmart.

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Old 08-02-2007, 05:06 AM
 
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Apparently thats now a choice that is acceptable to make, as long as we're not shopping at walmart.
not in my world mama
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Old 08-02-2007, 08:40 AM
 
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Ahh! It's you! I just saw you picture and we know eachother

i am being inarticulate one handed with cranky newborn
LOL! I would not be winning the scavenger hunt for clues anytime soon.

Congrats on the new babe! I hope you all are doing well!!!

Topic? I got nothing.
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:59 AM
 
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Not everyone has the same set of choices. Choice is often directly proportional with variables like location, transportation, money, etc. A choice is not a choice is not a choice. I'd love to eat 100% local organic but other variables hider that choice in ways I can't just change with a snap of some fingers.

And if you mean handcuffs, whips and chains, yes, I agree no one is forced to shop at Wal-Mart or any of the box stores.

ITA w/this. You just can't have this type of discussion without realizing not everyone has the same choices in which to make decisions. Some folks live in rural places with great little co-ops, have access to land, etc. Some live in places where there are no great co-ops, have little land and the chpice may literally be feed my kids or don't feed them. In that case I think we know what the choice is going to be.

Shay

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Old 08-02-2007, 12:19 PM
 
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You shouldn't have to explain yourself to anyone; one would expect an AP/MDC mama is doing what she can with what she has. Benefit of the doubt? Trust? Believing people when they tell you they are doing the best they can? I guess that's no longer in style.
You'd think so, right. But by 16 pages of post going back and forth about why Walmart is evil, why you shouldn't shop there, why you could go without, how you could make other choices, why you don't care about the world, support child labor, don't care about a fair wage, don't have any morals...well it's hard to not feel like you should offer up some sort of excuse.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I shop there, enjoy shopping there, will continue to shop there. That's it, period. I have tons of other stores in my area. I'm making a conscious choice to go there. Just as I make a choice to drive a big a$$ SUV. I just like Walmart.

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:21 PM
 
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I do think that at 16 pages this is getting to be a bit much. If one wants to learn more about Wal-Mart and their practices, there are plenty of websites where you can do so. I think the thread was profitable in that it may have led some ( myself included) to question their shopping habits and think more about the choices that are available in their areas.
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:31 PM
 
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You'd think so, right. But by 16 pages of post going back and forth about why Walmart is evil, why you shouldn't shop there, why you could go without, how you could make other choices, why you don't care about the world, support child labor, don't care about a fair wage, don't have any morals...well it's hard to not feel like you should offer up some sort of excuse.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I shop there, enjoy shopping there, will continue to shop there. That's it, period. I have tons of other stores in my area. I'm making a conscious choice to go there. Just as I make a choice to drive a big a$$ SUV. I just like Walmart.
:

I shop there occasionally, some food items are cheaper, some baby and toiletry stuff is cheaper, and when I can't find it fast at a thrift store or garage sale or simply prefer new, I will buy furniture there. They also sell nice cheap craft supplys.

On average though, I shop elsewhere, but I will still continue to shop there. On average our local meijers is cheaper when I combine my coupons and their sales, of which walmart has very little. Just like aldi, we went there yesterday, what a crock! most the things there were more expensive (yes even staples like sugar and flour) than my local meijers and the meijers stuff is higher quality. One lady checked out in front of me, and got a cart full of generic crap, and spent $350..... I got a huge pile of name brand stuff grochery shopping lastnight, including high quality meat and name brand toiletpaper, at 3 different stores, and still spent less than her, for more! (and because of my coupons i saved $75 at meijers
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:41 PM
 
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FTR, DH checked milk prices yesterday. Safeway is the cheapest on sale.
Walmart is the cheapest regular price.
Costco is higher than Safeway's regular price.

wonderwahine, I second the craft supply thing. They are pretty much my only source for craft supplies. I can pay shipping, or I can just not do one of the things that gives me and my dcs pleasure.

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Old 08-02-2007, 05:39 PM
 
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I've kept quiet through this whole thread, just reading what everyone's wrote, taking it all in. Now I think I'll say it:

I SHOP AT WAL-MART They pay our bills. Without them, we would have NO food on our table, no $$ for our bills, NADA!!!

DH is the dept mgr of our local WM's photo lab and is currently interviewing to move up to an Asst Mgr position. It's the ONLY place that would give him a job. And yes, I do mean the ONLY place. He's applied in ALL SORTS of fields. In-state, out-of-state, in his field, outside his field. Do you know that the local Target wouldn't hire him b/c he was "overqualified" for all their jobs yet he can't get a job in his field?? Before WM, he was working for a privately owned store and the owner was a total UA violation who took advantage of DH in every way he possibly could.

So, I'm thankful for WM. They made every attempt to start DH at the highest wage they could b/c he had a family to support. They've made all attempts at giving him whatever he's needed thus far. True, we can't afford the healthcare right now, but it was worse when he worked at the mom & pop store. And FTR, I would like to point out that MANY of the M&P places around here won't pay close to what our local WM does. Not b/c they can't afford it (b/c believe me, they're doing quite well despite the WM being here) but b/c they DON'T WANT TO TAKE FROM THEIR BOTTOM LINE!!! That's actually what DH's old boss told him when he cut DH's pay b/c he couldn't afford to have DH at the wage he was making (which was right above the poverty level) AND have a 40% profit margin.

And y'know what, I would say that a good majority of the employees who work at DH's WM ENJOY IT!!!! <GASP> Many have said that WM is the best employer they've worked for <GASP> There's no rule about not getting a 2nd job, as a matter of fact, they're pretty flexible w/ their hours. Did DH have to tell anyone about his religion or values?? No, I don't know where that statement came from : He had to take a brief quiz about what he would do in certain stealing instances, but that was it.

Do I buy everything at WM? No. We don't NEED everything that WM carries. BUT, I buy what little I do need from there, and leave the rest.

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Old 08-02-2007, 10:57 PM
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I said it before and I'll say it again, I shop there, enjoy shopping there, will continue to shop there. That's it, period. I have tons of other stores in my area. I'm making a conscious choice to go there. Just as I make a choice to drive a big a$$ SUV. I just like Walmart.
I feel at bit sick to my stomach right now, reading this makes me wonder if you are actually trying to incite more argument or if you are just proud to be polluting the environment and completely turning a blind eye to everything that has been discussed here.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:16 PM
 
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I feel at bit sick to my stomach right now, reading this makes me wonder if you are actually trying to incite more argument or if you are just proud to be polluting the environment and completely turning a blind eye to everything that has been discussed here.


Ty! I can't believe someone would post such rubbish on a nfl site.

If that isn't the biggest load of pot stirring I;ve seen in a long time.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:27 PM
 
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THere are poor people all over the world living without walmart. The difference is, they make due with less stuff/junk. And no, toilet paper is not junk, but most people are not just buying toilet paper at walmart.

Its so frustrating that so many people don't understand how walmart perpetuates the cycle of poverty in the communities they are in
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:31 PM
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THere are poor people all over the world living without walmart. The difference is, they make due with less stuff/junk. And no, toilet paper is not junk, but most people are not just buying toilet paper at walmart.

Its so frustrating that so many people don't understand how walmart perpetuates the cycle of poverty in the communities they are in
And decide that even if they do understand, it's not a problem they care to address, even if able to. :
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:41 PM
 
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And decide that even if they do understand, it's not a problem they care to address, even if able to. :
We understand what you think, but you are wrong.
You can keep the pitying tone up for days on end, but you will not change our minds, and you will not change the facts.

The problem is not Walmart. The problem is your government and greedy manufacturers who lie. If all those companies were losing money they would be out of business. They chose to gain larger profits by moving their factories elsewhere.

I'm not trying to be rude, but really, that argument is laughable. Nobody forced those companies to do business with Walmart. I'm : for a different reason.

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Old 08-02-2007, 11:49 PM
 
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Bigeyes, isn't the government composed of its citizens? I agree that certain policies (like NAFTA) have had major impacts on our economy and the availability of jobs, but these policies and those who implemented them were supported by the majority of voting citizens (except for cases of voter fraud).

I feel strongly that we as citizens have an obligation to create the changes we want.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:54 PM
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We understand what you think, but you are wrong.
You can keep the pitying tone up for days on end, but you will not change our minds, and you will not change the facts.

The problem is not Walmart. The problem is your government and greedy manufacturers who lie. If all those companies were losing money they would be out of business. They chose to gain larger profits by moving their factories elsewhere.

I'm not trying to be rude, but really, that argument is laughable. Nobody forced those companies to do business with Walmart. I'm : for a different reason.
My tone is not pitying. Is yours defensive? It sounds it, making me wonder if you are truly at peace with your decisions. Whether you are or not is certainly your business, but don't insult others to bolster your argument.

Blatantly calling me "wrong" and my opinions "laughable" will not give your arguments more credibility.

And deflecting the criticism about WalMart to the government, which is certainly a whole other kettle of fish to fry, is just a tactic to avoid the issue: WalMart's shady, unsavory, and unethical business practices.

Do you really expect to convince others that WalMart is a poor victim? Really, this company that earns 10 BILLION in profits annually is somehow a victim? Talk about laughable!

Our government's problems are one thing. They don't excuse WalMart's.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:11 AM
 
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Bigeyes, isn't the government composed of its citizens? I agree that certain policies (like NAFTA) have had major impacts on our economy and the availability of jobs, but these policies and those who implemented them were supported by the majority of voting citizens (except for cases of voter fraud).

I feel strongly that we as citizens have an obligation to create the changes we want.
I agree, but when was the last time your representative voted the way you wanted? I write mine all the time. I watch them on tv not showing up for work. I saw an election where people were turned away from the polls and the supreme court appointed a president.

So no, I don't think our government is composed of its citizens. I think there is way too much corruption in our government and we're so busy coming up with things for the little guy to do like chasing our tails looking for other places to shop we don't spend our time watching them. As I said before, why the hell was there a read the bills act? Aren't they supposed to know what they are voting for? Why are we blaming Walmart for the health care crisis when years ago people were trying to get national health care and it was defeated because the public just plain didn't like Hillary Clinton?

We've all repeated ourselves many times. The difference is one side says the other side is uncaring or too obtuse to understand, and I say the other side is mistaken in believing that Walmart is to blame. We do care about poverty, we don't think Walmart is to blame. We are not too dumb to get it, we don't think your reasoning is sound. I'm not saying anyone is dumb, I'm saying they did not factor in certain things. Like, why would any company agree to do business with Walmart if it was not going to be profitable? If it isn't profitable, why are they still in business? It doesn't make sense. And, if they put companies out of business, why do some companies clamor to do business with Walmart? Again, it doesn't make sense.

Until we call for a boycott of all companies who outsource, it makes no sense to pick on walmart. Until we boycott all companies who don't offer affordable insurance for employees, it makes no sense to pick on walmart. When you do this, you are causing hardship for the people who can least afford it. Most poor people cannot afford to boycott the city bus, for example. But when I drove the city bus, there were many of us who could not afford our insurance. Now, if you tell me that wouldn't make sense, I would agree. For the single mom I picked up every day who couldn't afford a car, it would not make sense to boycott just because of their insurance being unaffordable. It was not her responsiblity to boycott on my behalf, and I would not expect her to.

How can anyone call Walmart a bully when the reasons for boycotting don't work across the board for all other businesses? Does everyone who boycotts Walmart research the background of each and every business they use? If not, why not? Who is the real bully here?

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Old 08-03-2007, 12:20 AM
 
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My tone is not pitying. Is yours defensive? It sounds it, making me wonder if you are truly at peace with your decisions. Whether you are or not is certainly your business, but don't insult others to bolster your argument.

Blatantly calling me "wrong" and my opinions "laughable" will not give your arguments more credibility.

And deflecting the criticism about WalMart to the government, which is certainly a whole other kettle of fish to fry, is just a tactic to avoid the issue: WalMart's shady, unsavory, and unethical business practices.

Do you really expect to convince others that WalMart is a poor victim? Really, this company that earns 10 BILLION in profits annually is somehow a victim? Talk about laughable!

Our government's problems are one thing. They don't excuse WalMart's.
I'm sorry if you think I was insulting. I used wrong, but I didn't insult your intelligence. You have repeatedly said I didn't understand, which is insulting.
I am not deflecting, I am saying they are not as shady as you make them out to be. I think all big business is kind of shady, and our government gives big business many ways to keep getting richer while the middle class shrinks and the ranks of the poor grow.

I don't think Walmart is a victim, I just think people are being misdirected. I don't think your boycotts even affect them. I do think the boycotts keep you busy so you don't notice what your government is doing.

Any big business is going to try to maximize profit while minimizing their expenses. I have yet to work for any company that I believed when they said we care. So no, I don't love Walmart, and I don't think they are a victim. But I do think the people who have been tricked into believing a boycott empowers them are misguided. Not bad people, not stupid, not arrogant. Just misguided, and sadly, wrong. I'm sorry if you think that is insulting, but I don't know how to be any more polite while disagreeing with you. I believe you are wrong. Apparently you think I am too.

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Old 08-03-2007, 01:55 AM
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I don't think Walmart is a victim, I just think people are being misdirected. I don't think your boycotts even affect them. I do think the boycotts keep you busy so you don't notice what your government is doing.

But I do think the people who have been tricked into believing a boycott empowers them are misguided. Not bad people, not stupid, not arrogant. Just misguided, and sadly, wrong. I'm sorry if you think that is insulting, but I don't know how to be any more polite while disagreeing with you. I believe you are wrong. Apparently you think I am too.
I accept and thank you for the apology.

Boycotts can work, as evidenced by many events, inc. the ones that a pp mentioned. Apartheid in South Africa being one of the biggest.

Why do you think I don't notice what my government is doing? We discussed in other posts our concerns about the gov't., as well. I feel that I am extremely well-informed and get my news from many sources ( and that does NOT include Faux News (excuse me, Fox News ). I vote, I write my congressmen, and my husband and I have been involved in various committees and so forth from grassroots on up. So I don't feel that my head is in the sand regarding our government's behavior one way or the other.

I believe you and I are arguing about more than just WalMart here. I feel my spending choices empower me; you don't feel that yours do, I guess?

I suspect we've said all there is to be said here. Amen!
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
I accept and thank you for the apology.

Boycotts can work, as evidenced by many events, inc. the ones that a pp mentioned. Apartheid in South Africa being one of the biggest.



I believe you and I are arguing about more than just WalMart here. I feel my spending choices empower me; you don't feel that yours do, I guess?

I suspect we've said all there is to be said here. Amen!
I agree with you about S. Africa, but I don't think boycotting Walmart would empower me. If I could magically get our country to stop letting American corporations take their factories out of the country, that would make me feel empowered. Since I don't feel like our reps really listen to us, I don't see that happening.

When I first boycotted Nike I felt empowered, but when I saw the poorest people in my hometown spending money on their products it kinda took the wind out of my sails.

I wish I felt like it made a difference, but I really haven't seen it to be so.

I'll make you a deal though. I'll let you know the first time I hear back from my rep if you'll do the same. Deal? I'll continue to read the articles and do the research and I'll let you know if I see any compelling evidence that changes my opinion. Ok?

And you are still coming off like I should feel guilty for my choice, and I don't. Smoke and mirrors.

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Old 08-03-2007, 05:20 PM
 
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I feel at bit sick to my stomach right now, reading this makes me wonder if you are actually trying to incite more argument or if you are just proud to be polluting the environment and completely turning a blind eye to everything that has been discussed here.

Honestly, no I'm not trying to incite anything. My point is just because I don't agree with your belief system and chose to shop somewhere that you find unacceptable isn't really your's or anyone's business. You've said many times you're not trying to be judgmental or insulting, but I don't see that at all. I see that you're full of your own self righteousness about how everyone should be living. It's really about choice, you made your choices and I'm making mine. That doesn't make you better or more right than me. It just means you're trying to live your life and I'm living mine.

You've posted multiple times that people don't understand or get it or care. That's insulting and what I think you don't understand or get or care is that just as you want others to accept your views you have to be open to accept their's.

Sabrina , mom to 4 fab kids!

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Old 08-03-2007, 06:38 PM
 
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Ty! I can't believe someone would post such rubbish on a nfl site.

If that isn't the biggest load of pot stirring I;ve seen in a long time.

Well...whether or not YOU feel I'm NFL enough to post that on this site is really irrelevant. I just reread the mission statement for MDC that can be found under "About MDC" (you should check it out sometimes) because I'm still so stunned by the lack of acceptance and support in this thread. But, after reading it I feel doubly assured that MDC is still the place I always thought it was.

Sabrina , mom to 4 fab kids!

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