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Old 08-07-2007, 11:41 AM
 
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kijip- but that is for your family. I could never camp with 3 kids all their stuff and mine, plus camping equipment in a small car. I would be miserable the entire time.

But, we only have one child, aren't having any more and are happy and comfortable in our Toyota.

BUT, I dont think I can say what other people's comfort levels are based on my own.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:42 AM
 
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Oh, I will never buy an SUV, but that is a personal decision.

I think we have to do what we feel we can in regards to the environment, ya know? It's all a balancing act.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:12 PM
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Some of us get extremely claustrophobic and have panic attacks if we're crammed into small spaces.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:32 PM
 
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Jessica- and everyone was comfortable?.
Yes, we were all pretty comfortable. However DH and BIL would not have been comfortable in the backseat - they would have been miserable. So if I were their size perhaps we would have made different choices about what kind of car we drive...

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not more of the "i can do it, so why can't everyone else" arguements.
I think the point is not to say why can't everyone else, but to point out that the choice is there. I know there have been issues where I didn't think/feel something was a choice for me, and then someone pointed out that it was and it shed new light on it for me. I understand that everyone has their own set of wants and needs for their vehicle - I know that a smaller car than my wagon would get better mileage, but might not accommodate boats on top, dogs in back, or even fit my tall husband comfortably. There was a comment about balance earlier that was right on -
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I think we have to do what we feel we can in regards to the environment, ya know? It's all a balancing act.
the trick is to find a way to walk the line between meeting all your needs and some of your wants, while also minimizing your footprint. I think we all need to work on that, and that one way we can work on that is by thinking out of the box and re-evaluating our wants and needs. I think it is good to challenge each other a little with that, and I think that's why I enjoyed this whole discussion.

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Old 08-07-2007, 04:41 PM
 
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I am a huge believer in letting my money speak.
For example, I couldn't boycott Disney if I tried. They own everything.
http://www.cjr.org/resources/
I'll come back and read the entire thread later, but I have to say that I looked at the list of what Disney owns and I don't use any of it. I haven't been trying either, I didn't know until just now they owned all those things. (Thanks for the great resource to look up this info.) I'm not saying anyone should do the same, just that it is possible.
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:15 PM
 
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I'll come back and read the entire thread later, but I have to say that I looked at the list of what Disney owns and I don't use any of it. I haven't been trying either, I didn't know until just now they owned all those things. (Thanks for the great resource to look up this info.) I'm not saying anyone should do the same, just that it is possible.
Are you sure? You've NEVER watched a movie produced by one of their companies? Never watched Lifetime TV? Ever bought a CD put out by Hollywood Records? I'm NOT saying that you're lying, I just think that with media giants like that, it really is hard to avoid 'em.
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:21 PM
 
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I really, really know that many people who drive big gas guzzlers do so for no reason other than ego. (It was my first reason, remember? The childless, dogless couple with TWO Hummers.)

I'm just saying that other people may have valid reasons for their choices.

I really, really don't think that anyone could comfortably fit in the back seat of our Corrola with a car seat back there. It's a '91 and we are NOT small people- neither short nor thin. (DSS complained- he isn't a complainer, but he's 9 and is 4'10" and weighs 88#- for all intents and purposes, the size of a small adult.)

I think Subarus are really practical vehicles for those who can afford them. They are way, way, way out of our price range. Subarus are damn near impossible to find used and fairly priced (I know I'm not the only one on this- I've had discussions about this with other MDCers in this very forum), and DH and I do not buy new cars, as that would be financial suicide for us.

We are looking already for a used minivan, as we would like to have another child soon, then another in pretty short order. That's four kids all day, three in car seats. I can't think of a vehicle, other than a van or SUV of some stripe, that would hold all of us.

We live in the Upper Midwest, so our minivan MUST be all wheel drive. This is a fairly new thing, the AWD minivan. Especially when it comes to domestic cars, and as we live in Michigan, the used domestic car market is much bigger than that of used foreign cars. So I can see how someone would buy an SUV if their options were limited and they didn't plan ahead long term. I drove an SUV (a hand me down from my mom) and I hated it. I'll never buy another one. I just don't think that everyone who has a good size family and drives an SUV made the wrong choice.

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Old 08-07-2007, 06:46 PM
 
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Are you sure? You've NEVER watched a movie produced by one of their companies? Never watched Lifetime TV? Ever bought a CD put out by Hollywood Records? I'm NOT saying that you're lying, I just think that with media giants like that, it really is hard to avoid 'em.
Well, my post was in the present tense, wasn't trying to imply I never have. But now that you made me think about it, I cannot think of anything I've owned or viewed from those companies. I probably have owned something in my life but am forgetting, what I was saying is that I don't use any of their stuff now.

I guess I'm not that into media, so that factors in. I have a few CDs I like and none of them are from the Disney-owned label, not that I knew that until today. I only watch TV for major news events/emergencies (like 9/11) and I've never had cable. I hardly listen to the radio and when I do it's not one of the stations listed. I don't watch movies much, I guess I read more for entertainment. I don't think I have any Hyperion books. Not that I was avoiding them (like I said I didn't even know they were owned by Disney), I guess I haven't been attracted to the topics. I don't have any Disney branded toys/movies/music here and don't go to the theme parks, which are intentional choices, but the rest of it isn't. I guess I'm just a hermit.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:05 AM
 
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Another thing I have to think about when buying a vehicle is my comfort level.
I have fibromyalgia and very long legs. I'm not really tall, but sitting in theater seats or most car seats for any length of time is physically painful for me because my lower body is abnormally long and they just don't make things to fit me.

We were at a car show and I sat in a Mini Cooper and the first words out of my mouth were I could never own one of these, this hurts. Putting the seat all the way back didn't do a bit of good.

When I was younger I could do it, but now I just physically cannot take it, I would literally have to pull off the road several times in between my house and the nearest real 'town,' which just is not realistic.

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Old 08-09-2007, 01:15 AM
 
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Another thing I have to think about when buying a vehicle is my comfort level.
I have fibromyalgia and very long legs. I'm not really tall, but sitting in theater seats or most car seats for any length of time is physically painful for me because my lower body is abnormally long and they just don't make things to fit me.
Ditto on the long legs and FMS, however, I have an Aveo for my family which is small, fuel efficient and comfortable. It can also fit two adults and two to three kids. I found it pretty comfy in the back seat myself actually. Just sayin.

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Old 08-09-2007, 04:03 AM
 
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Ditto on the long legs and FMS, however, I have an Aveo for my family which is small, fuel efficient and comfortable. It can also fit two adults and two to three kids. I found it pretty comfy in the back seat myself actually. Just sayin.
I haven't tried one of those yet. Mostly I tend to drive as little as possible now, but I really feel it in our teeny tiny mazda. The truck, not so much.

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Old 08-09-2007, 07:47 AM
 
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Our budget is pretty tight now, but we still won't shop at Walmart. For one thing, they really aren't any cheaper than other stores (in my personal experience). Another thing is there just aren't a whole lot of things we really *need*, kwim? We make our own cleaning supplies, use cloth rags/wipes/etc, and just try to all around cut back on what we buy.
I just refuse to shop at Walmart. I will not support them. Period.
Great job Mama! I make some of our cleaning supplies, and have to buy unscented all-natural anyway, as I have terrible allergies. So we pay more for some natural items, but balance that with freecycling and thrift store shopping.

We get almost all of our clothing at thrift stores, and my dd has tons of new and used clothes that have been given to her. We shop at the farmers market and our local small grocer. And we are on a tight budget. I don't understand how people "need" to shop at Walmart. We have been completely broke and in debt, and have now pulled ourselves up to a respectable almost broke and in debt. I don't recall having shopped at Walmart as an adult, but I knew I would never shop there when I read an article about Walmart in 1996 stating that women from China who were in Sai Pan, who were working at Walmart factories (and Gap, and some other corporations), were being forced into abortions. I am pro-choice. That is CHOICE. And there are so many reasons to not shop at Walmart, but a FORCED ABORTION. That is an evil criminal act. And whether it was merely the factory managers or supervisors, or whatever. I don't care. Walmart knows what they sow. And Ken DeLay was their cheerleader and protector.
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:57 AM
 
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While I understand your situation, I resent that you are referring to ethical boycotts of Walmart as "snobbish". It's not about being a snob, it's about not contributing to a known human rights violating, environmentally exploitative company.
A-men Sister! And maybe I go to the "lesser evil" store (Target), once or twice a year, but I know that green companies like Seventh Generation won't sell to Walmart, they sell to Target because their ethical standards and business practices are more in line with what Seventh Generation envisions. That tells me something.

I believe that using the term "snobbish" somehow makes it seem as if Walmart is being persecuted somehow. Give me a break. :
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:01 AM
 
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I am a huge believer in letting my money speak.

For example, I couldn't boycott Disney if I tried. They own everything.

http://www.cjr.org/resources/

I am not a fan of walmart, but where I live we have little choice. I shop there. I also shop at my farmer's market and the local grocery, but I can't afford to buy all of my groceries there because their markup is insane. I shop at Costco and Safeway, Longs, Kmart, and wherever else I pass on my route home if something is on sale. But Walmart and Costco get the bulk of my money.

I save my boycotting energy for Nike, Adidas, designer clothing and various name brand items.
You know, every Disney item we own was given to us or purchased used from a thrift store. There aren't many, but I know that poor Winnie the Pooh was bought out by Disney.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:04 AM
 
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I just finished managing a Fair Trade store. I am on an exceptionally small budget. Probably smaller than most here.

I could go on and on about why Wal-Mart is an abomination, and damning those who shop there but it comes down to this:

My WANT of cheap CRAP does not outweigh the life needs of those who produce those goods. The biggest EXCUSE I see for people who shop at Wal-Mart is the glorious category of "household goods". Screw that, things like toilet paper, laundry soap and scrub brushes are not a life need. They just aren't. Those things can be improvised in one fashion or another and I would rather do that than compromise my morals and shop with the devil.
"Shop with the Devil...Always", that should be Walmart's slogan, lol!

I loved what you had to say so much, I just checked out your homepage. I never do that. And your site is very cool. It is wonderful that there are women like you in the world!
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:01 AM
 
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I have read through many many pages of this thread, and consistently I hear from Walmart shoppers that they have no choice. I am sorry for those that honestly believe that they have no choice but to shop there. And if Sprawlmart is seriously the ONLY store within a 50 mile radius, as some have claimed, I guess one would have to shop there if they had to shop. I would grow my own food.

One thing that this thread has opened my eyes to is that shopping at the other department stores is not much better than shopping at Walmart. I don't really do that much shopping except for food, or used items at estate sales and thrift stores. But if we need a fan in summer, I wonder where I should get it. Oh, I know, Freecycle!

There is always an alternative. I have read a lot of people on here making excuses. And I appreciate that there are those here that try to keep their Walmart shopping to a minimum. But I have seriously been talking to my hubby about trying the "don't buy anything for a year" plan (excluding food and maybe toilet paper). This is because I am so sick and disgusted at what our nation has become. We spend and spend and waste and waste. Our country IS the corporatocracy and it is because we demand endless amounts of plastic crap that breaks in a minute and gets chucked into the landfills. And we demand so much more. I am disgusted, and I am going to act by completely cutting out the unnecessary crap. I am glad that I read this thread.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:14 PM
 
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: What greenwoman said. I've been thinking of doing this for a while, but I think I'll start very soon now. Thanks for the inpiration, mamas.

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Old 08-10-2007, 02:16 PM
 
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I haven't tried one of those yet. Mostly I tend to drive as little as possible now, but I really feel it in our teeny tiny mazda. The truck, not so much.
Well if you find yourself in the market for another car, I'm sure you could get a great price on a used one. Hope it works out.

I'm a queer, poly, pagan, (dis)abled, crazy, crunchy, intersectionally-minded feminist. fsonj & I are mamas to our unschooled/freeschooled 12yo & 3yo!  (Ask me about co-breastfeeding, supplementing at the breast, inducing lactation, eating placentas, undisturbed birth, and parenting a genderqueer child with Aspergers!)
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:58 PM
 
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But I have seriously been talking to my hubby about trying the "don't buy anything for a year" plan (excluding food and maybe toilet paper). This is because I am so sick and disgusted at what our nation has become. We spend and spend and waste and waste. Our country IS the corporatocracy and it is because we demand endless amounts of plastic crap that breaks in a minute and gets chucked into the landfills. And we demand so much more. I am disgusted, and I am going to act by completely cutting out the unnecessary crap. I am glad that I read this thread.
You might want to join us over at the Compacting Mommas thread. You'll find there are some who are more or less strict in what they are allowing themselves to buy, but its great to be on this path with others.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:48 PM
 
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So, is Kmart just the same?
What about Longs Drugs?
Walgreens?
Safeway?

My question is, is it only Walmart? Everywhere I go, things are made everywhere but the USA.

I know Walmart is an evil empire, but I don't think they are the only one. And we are not like most states that have a whole lot of choices. We are sparsely populated and must drive long distances to get to anything. I don't have a lot of mom and pop stores to choose from. My local market is a chain also, and is a tourist trap.

I am not arguing that Walmart is great, I know they aren't. I'm saying where I live I don't have as many options as I did in a booming metropolis. And I don't know anything about the factories where my Costco merchandise comes from either.

The reality is, I am not going to pay shipping so I can buy from the mainland. I have Walmart, Kmart, Safeway, Costco, Longs, some farmer's markets and fruit stands, and a chain called Malama Markets. It is a 2 hour drive to get to anything, and if it is out of stock, I can't get it for anywhere from 2 months to never.

I'm not a huge fan, but if Walmart has what I need, I will get it there. I'm not happy about it, but I'm running out of options. They say we will have a Target in 2009, but they have been working on a highway improvement project that was supposed to take a few years for something like a decade, so who knows?
Yepper. We are in a small town of 30k. Its 120 miles to the closests big town of 90K. I have very limited choices. I am hating Walmart more and more, but right now I am stuck.

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Old 08-11-2007, 07:44 PM
 
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You know, every Disney item we own was given to us or purchased used from a thrift store. There aren't many, but I know that poor Winnie the Pooh was bought out by Disney.
I'm so sad that Winnie the Pooh is Disney. I have a big soft spot in my heart for WtP. I've managed to get lots of stuff second hand though.
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