WWYD? I want to ask this to Dave Ramsey and you moms... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 01:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all for great advice.

 ~ Have a Blessed Day!
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#2 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 02:43 AM
 
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Oh, now I understand why you were asking about delivering pizzas! I LOVE Dave Ramsey. I too have wanted to call in many times. We were doing so well, until my husband left and divorced me. Over the past year, things have been really tough financially.

What about renting out a room in your house? I was looking on craigslist the other day trying to find out what the market was like in my area.

As a single mom, I too needed to find a job that had flexible hours, had to be way more than minimum wage, and where I didn't have to pay a fortune in daycare. I found that, and slowly I am pulling myself back on my feet.

Have you thought of direct sales/network marketing/party plan type thing? It is the cheapest way to start a business, and you have the opportunity to make a lot of money very quickly. I finally looked into that, and found a company that suited my needs, etc. There seems to be one for just about every product under the sun - so you could probably find one with a product you were passionate about - that seems to be the key in direct sales - find something you love and can't stop talking about.

I tried other things first, but am glad I finally found this. It is working out really well for me.
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#3 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 07:34 AM
 
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Your mortgage payment is $21 less than his full month's take home pay?! What about groceries and other living expenses? I think the first priority has to be finding a better paying job (why in the world did he switch jobs to this one?!) I would definitely be looking for ways that you can earn as well 0 maybe childcare in your home?
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#4 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 08:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by naturallyspeaking View Post
Hi,
Actually I sent him an email about our situation the other day but who knows when he will be able to read the email or response to this during the talk show...
We are in a "financial suicide" situation and I would like some input from you moms with financial knack...
I'll make my long story short. My husband changed career with less paying but secured salary job a few months ago. Our mortgage per month is $21 shy of our monthly take home pay and we also have HELOC payment with minimum of $180 interest only pmt per month. Basically the rest of our monthly bill is either paid by credit card or savings (the one we are supposed to pay off HELOC with and it will be running out by next month). We bought this house 2 years ago at the peak of the soaring housing market and we can't sell this house for what we owe now. If we tried to sell it, if the house even gets sold, we will have to "pay" the overage (approx. $35,000) to get out of it. I would love to sell this one and downsize or even rent it and move to a cheaper place but no one's going to rent this house for our mortgage pmt. My husband wants to get a 2nd job and just try to pay off more on the principle so the mortgage would be less per month. But with his 2nd job, it is not going to be enough.
I'm almost willing to go through short sale or like Dave said the other day "deed in leiu of foreclosure without recourse" but my husband absolutely hates the idea. I think with this, we still need to pay tax on the debt forgiveness, am I right?
I'm trying to sell stuff from the house on ebay and Craigslist but these incomes are not fixed. You might or might not get paid for your work. I'm starting homeschooling and nurse my DD so full time day job outside the home is out.
What way is the fast way to bring more income and is there a way we can sell/rent/least to own this house and get out of this pit? Would it be worth renting this one for less than the mortgage amount and we pitch in to make up for mortgage pmt while we rent cheap place near by? What to do??? Should we just concentrating on raising income, if so what kind of job offer flexible hours and good pay? What kind of job that I can do with kids or something to do at night that pays decent? I love to work as a ebay seller but I don't know whether I should crank up my ebay effort/time or just look for secure paying job? What I usually sell is the stuff from the house or thrift/garage sale/sale bargains, nothing special. FYI, I looooove being a SAHM/WAHM. Also we don't have car pmt or cable TV and plan to sell DH's truck for a beater commute vehicle. He works 3 miles from home but doesn't like the idea of 1 car family. We are trying to cut down on expense but it is hard too. (My DH is not a great penny pincher)..
I'm sorry my rambling went long again... My minds are in so many places...
Thanks for reading and I hope to hear some encouraging advice.

Dave constantly talks about two ways you can work with the bank -

*short sale - selling the house for less than the balance due on the mortgage. You get an offer on the house, take it back to the bank, get them to approve the offer - AND THAT's WHAT THEY ACCEPT. Get it in WRITING. They don't come after you for the unpaid mortgage balance. Dave was just talking about this earlier this week. Given the current situation, the bank doesn't want to be stuck with a defaulted mortgage, so Dave says they might take what you can get from it.

*deed in lieu of foreclosure - you turn back the keys, sign over the deed, and the bank doesn't come back to you for the deficit after the house is sold for less than the balance on the mortgage.

Is there any way your DH can BIKE to work, if he's only 3 miles from work?

For things at night, you might check into a hospital, retail, etc.

I have to ask, why did your DH take a job that wouldn't even cover the mortgage?

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#5 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 08:36 AM
 
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Adding:

I was reading quickly and didn't see you mentioned the two "ways out" but glad I posted them for others in the same situation to see.

I'm going to get a little blunt here, but if you called DR, you'd get something along these lines:

Your DH needs to grow up and get a spine. He "hates the idea" of a short sale/deed in lieu of foreclosure, doesn't like the idea of a 1 car family, isn't a great penny pincher - your words.

He got the family into this situation by taking a job that doesn't cover the mortgage payment. What was he thinking? He is the sole support for his family and he needs to take responsibility.

Yes, your credit will take a ding by doing the short sale/deed in lieu of foreclosure. A foreclosure hurts your credit, too. How far behind are you? Doesn't he realize you're going to end up in foreclosure sooner or later?

You know how Dave says "beans and rice, rice and beans" for reducing your grocery bill? Would your DH even object to that?

To the other mamas out there:

Buying a house on an ARM - bad idea.

If your mortgage payment is more than 30% of your monthly take-home pay, and you're having trouble paying the bills, bet that's a large part of it.

Having a house is not the end all and be all it's touted to be. It's not a sign of adulthood. It's not security or stability. If you buy more house than you can afford, especially when you don't have any savings, it's a big red flag. As Dave Ramsey says, "Murphy is going to move into your spare bedroom and stay there."

Renting is not evil, a sin, or the end of the world. In my eyes, it's freedom. I don't have to take care of the appliances, the bathroom, etc., if something breaks - just call the landlord. If I don't like a place, I can move after a year without a millstone of a house I can't sell around my neck.

If you have bad credit, this is NOT the time to buy. Even if you could get a loan, the interest rate would be very high. Stay in your rental, save your money, and try later.

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#6 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 08:42 AM
 
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Dave would say 2 things, sell the house and get a second job.

I listen to him every day and I would absolutely bet that he would tell you to short sale your house.

FTR we did that. We made the biggest mistake and bought our current house and moved to a different state *before* we sold our other house. It sat on the market for 2 years (The area we were in took a HUGE dive right before we moved and our house lost almost half its value)

So after a year we worked with the bank and they agreed to a short sale IF we could get an offer. We did not make any mortgage payments between the agreement and when we finally sold. We had a great agent who worked really hard and after 5 offers that fell through, we FINALLY sold it for about half what we owed.

I will tell you it hit our credit as a bad debt/writeoff and we will have to pay taxes on the forgiven amount. If we didnt already have a house and didnt care what our credit is, it would have been a last option. (Which it sounds like you are at)

Very very seldom will a bank do a Deed in Lieu of.

I hope that something works out for you, whatever you decide.
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#7 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 08:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tradd View Post
If you have bad credit, this is NOT the time to buy. Even if you could get a loan, the interest rate would be very high. Stay in your rental, save your money, and try later.
This bears repeating. If you have good credit, now *is* the time to buy, but if you don't... you need to wait it out. Good point.

To the OP - I don't know Dave Ramsey except what I've read here. I think your biggest concern is that you don't end up homeless. Even renters do credit checks and I would get out from that mortgage and into a rental while your credit is still good(?... fair?). In all honestly, when I read your post I was puzzling over how your dh could take a job that barely pays the mortgage. I don't mean to sound harsh, but if you want to make ends meet and stay in the home, it might mean pumping for the baby and putting the child in school, or multiple jobs for one or both of you. Of course, that depends on your earning power and oftentimes people find that they barely break even after daycare costs, etc. Otherwise, I'd try to get out from under the mortgage with minimum damage to your FICO and maximum stress relief. Good luck!!
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#8 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 10:29 AM
 
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Your dh needs to find a new job that pays better and/or take a second job at night/weekends. You should see about doing in home childcare for a few kids. I think that most states don't require a license, if it's only 1-2 kids. That could bring in some money to at least get your bills paid.

Look into church food banks, so you're not spending as much on groceries. I think there's also something called Angel Ministries where you can buy quite a bit of food for $25. Do a search in this forum for it. You should be eating lots of rice and beans, cheap pasta, etc. NO sodas, packaged snack food, etc.

Your dh needs to grow up. I cannot understand why anyone would take a job that doesn't even cover the mortgage payment, let alone any other bills.
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#9 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 10:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by naturallyspeaking View Post
Hi,
My husband wants to get a 2nd job and just try to pay off more on the principle so the mortgage would be less per month.
Just thought I'd mention this (re-reading, this jumped out at me). Paying down your principal is not going to reduce your payments unless you refinance. By the time you get your principal down enough to make refinancing worth your while, the mortgage rates are likely to be much higher than they are now... thus, your payments would be *higher*, not lower. This is *not* a good goal to aspire to. We are on the brink of recession and rates (according to those financial gurus I trust and respect) are about to soar. I concur. I hate to say it, but your husband doesn't seem to have a good grasp of finances and it will tank you both if you keep following his lead. You sound like the person in the relationship who is willing to do the research and find an equitable solution. I would be leery of your husband's advice. JMHO. Again, good luck!
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#10 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 10:52 AM
 
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Related to what velochic is saying - really, if you've only got $21 left after making the mortgage payment, your DH should not be worried about making extra mtg payments with a second job. Isn't he concerned at all with how your family will get food on the table? Pay for car insurance for the two cars he insists you have? How about utilites? Emergencies? Health Care?

You two need to sit down and have a serious talk about security, and your current lack of it. He needs to step up, get a better paying job (and then probably a second job on top of that)
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#11 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 11:00 AM
 
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Do you guys have a budget? Like one that Dave recs, with it completely itemized down to the penny?

Also, you may have more success hearing from Dave if you call in - DH called about a month ago and got on the show, and his was a really mundane, normal, non-exciting question.

Mama to H (6) B (3) : A (1)
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#12 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 03:27 PM
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Let's see if I have the facts straight:
You can't afford debt service on your house, let alone the other normal living expenses.
DH's job is secure and stable, income is reliable but too low.
You have two cars, but both are paid for.
DH works 3 miles from home.
**

Suggestions:
Shift to a 1-car family. Your DH works so close to home, he could practically WALK there - what does he need a car to commute for?

As for getting out from under the mortgage/HELOC -- I think that until you've exhausted options for bringing in more income and reducing your expenses, you shouldn't consider defaulting on the housing debt or moving to lower-cost quarters and trying to rent it out.

At that point, if you HAVE exhausted all those options and you still can't cover debt service, READ THE FINE PRINT before you move out of your home. Some mortgages require "owner occupancy" -- it would stink to move out in an attempt to save money so that you could pay your mortgage, but then be obligated by the mortgage contract to pay it all off or default.

For improving your cash flow, maybe you can think of it as YOUR job to focus on reducing expenses (given the difficulties of finding work outside the home that covers the cost of childcare), and your DH can focus on increasing his income. Money you don't spend is almost like income - so even if you don't work for an outside employer, you can still "make money" for the family. You need your DH's support on this though -- maybe if he is thinking about "cutting expenses" as your job, it will be easier for him to get on board.

Near term: can you qualify for public assistance of any sort? Maybe WIC, since you are nursing? It seems like you could be close to the point of not having enough for food. If public assistance will prevent you from piling on credit card debt (which will be even more of a burden to unload than the mortgage debt), then DO IT.
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#13 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 07:05 PM
 
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Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#14 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 08:10 PM
 
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I hope you can come up with a good solution for you and your family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naturallyspeaking View Post
I'm almost willing to go through short sale or like Dave said the other day "deed in leiu of foreclosure without recourse" but my husband absolutely hates the idea. I think with this, we still need to pay tax on the debt forgiveness, am I right?
Yes, you will owe taxes on it- IRS considers it "phantom income" even though it doesn't really exist in your bank account- it is forgiven debt an the IRS looks at it like you made an additional "X" that year. Make sure you look at both the long and short term costs of all your options.
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#15 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 08:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post
Paying down your principal is not going to reduce your payments unless you refinance.
FWIW, our mortgage lender will rebalance the payments for a $200 charge. Our broker (who works at the bank that is our lender) said she will waive the fee for a rebalance for us.

Not that that is really that relevent in this situation.
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#16 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 08:36 PM
 
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Hugs.

Here are my suggestions:
- DH needs to grow up.
- Don't pay more then minimum on mortgage, you need the money elsewhere too bad.
- DH needs to look into 2nd job
- Rent out a room or two in the house, make all kids share a room. As it seems they both co-sleep (from your signature) maybe they really don't need a room?
- look into watching kids in your home. You can do 1-2 in most places with out any kind of requirements.
- look into WIC other governmet programs
- look into community/church food programs
- stop every extra penny of outflow
- I'd go down to one car
- increase deductables on insurance to lower payments
- decrease insurance to minimum allowed by law

Go Green I don't vax either, why mess with perfect?
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#17 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 09:01 PM
 
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Hugs.
- I'd go down to one car
- increase deductables on insurance to lower payments
- decrease insurance to minimum allowed by law
But you have to be careful with those deductables because "what if" and then you suddenly have to pay the $1000 deductable?? You should have money-enough to cover that deductable, just in case.

I believe that another mama posted about that about a month ago, that they didn't have the cash to cover the deductable when they really needed it.
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#18 of 38 Old 08-16-2007, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you again!

 ~ Have a Blessed Day!
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#19 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 07:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by naturallyspeaking View Post
velochic, <<<By the time you get your principal down enough to make refinancing worth your while, the mortgage rates are likely to be much higher than they are now... thus, your payments would be *higher*, not lower>>> Do you mean after we put down more principle and refi, the rate will be higher thus the monthly mtg pmt will be higher??
Well, I can't predict what mortgage rates are going to do, but all of the market indicators suggest that we are on the brink of a recession. Mortgage rates are often the first thing to go up when this happens. Many financial analysts (dare I say "most"... although I don't listen to but a handful of them) feel that within months to a year, mortgage rates will rise a point or two.

For example, if you owe $100K at 6%, you're paying about $600/month P&I. Say you knock that principal down to $90K and in the meantime, rates go up to 8%... your monthly payments would be $660 (these are 30 year terms) after refinancing (even though you'd be paying on a smaller loan amount) At 7% on $90K, your payments would be just a few bucks shy of $600.

I'm just saying that unless you can knock down you principal a *lot* very, very quickly (like knock it down by $20K within just a few months) it might not be a good idea to bet on the future rates being able to bail you out with a lower monthly payment. It might, but it's more likely that it won't. These are not good times in the housing market. Good luck!

ETA: Not 2 minutes ago, I was watching the market news and they announced that mortgage rates are up again today. I have a feeling they are going to keep creeping up as long as the worldwide markets are in panic-mode.
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#20 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 08:49 AM
 
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caeden&connersmom, I'm sorry you had to go through that. <<<I will tell you it hit our credit as a bad debt/writeoff and we will have to pay taxes on the forgiven amount. If we didnt already have a house and didnt care what our credit is, it would have been a last option. (Which it sounds like you are at)>>> Did they give you a few years or months to pay off the tax on the forgiven amt? So you had current house already so you didn't care about your credit going bad, am I reading it right? That will be hard for us to give up on our great credit. How long do these bad credit affect when buying real estate or getting a loan?
We will find out this year what we have to pay in taxes. (This JUST happened in May)


It will stay on our credit as long as a Forclosure (7 years I think?) But after we bought our house up here in 2005 we closed all our CC accounts and have not borrowed a penny since, so we are slowly climbing out of debt and after we are done, we will not need credit again. So for *US* short saling was was a viable option. We are totally committed to getting out of debt and never borrowing again. (Many years ago, we were the typical refinance and pay off all the CC's and then rack them all up again, grrrrr)

Never again.
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#21 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 12:24 PM
 
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About 1 car, he doesn't want us to be bound at home or him being bound at work until someone picks him up. The funny thing is his brother (who lives less than 2 miles from our home) works at the down stairs of the same building but their hours are different so they can't car pool together (according to my DH). Also with him possibly getting 2nd job at night, he wants his own commute vehicle...
Is your neighborhood reasonably safe? Would biking be a possibility? You can get a used bike super-cheap.
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#22 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 12:36 PM
 
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Many financial analysts (dare I say "most"... although I don't listen to but a handful of them) feel that within months to a year, mortgage rates will rise a point or two.
My dh is a loan officer, and rates have risen a point or so in the last two weeks! They could go down and up, but I agree with you that the general trend will be UP.
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#23 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 02:14 PM
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Is your neighborhood reasonably safe? Would biking be a possibility? You can get a used bike super-cheap.
^--- what she said.

A car is a lot of money, even a paid-for car. He wouldn't be stuck at work until someone picked him up: he just needs to use less expensive transportation to get himself home. Walking, biking, car-pooling... these are all viable options, unless he has to travel while at work or carry lots of tools/equipment from home to work.
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#24 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 04:26 PM
 
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^--- what she said.

A car is a lot of money, even a paid-for car. He wouldn't be stuck at work until someone picked him up: he just needs to use less expensive transportation to get himself home. Walking, biking, car-pooling... these are all viable options, unless he has to travel while at work or carry lots of tools/equipment from home to work.
Worse case scenerio one can always take a taxi or car service. Seriously, it's got to be cheaper than keeping that extra car.
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#25 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 04:50 PM
 
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I'm sorry, but it really doesn't sound like your DH is on board or worried about the problem at all. You need to sit down with him and lay it all out - using the CC for daily living stuff is going to get you into a hole so deep you won't be able to get out of it. You think that short sale or deed in lieu is going to be hard to give up your good credit? If you're using your CC's to cover the shortfall in income every month, you're going to wind up with very bad credit anyway because soon enough you're going to be in a position where you won't be able to make even the minimum payments on the CC's. I'm sorry to be harsh, but something really needs to change before it's too late. If your DH can't/won't find another job, then at the very least you need to take advantage of the fact that his job is only 3 miles away and he can WALK.
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#26 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 05:26 PM
 
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Depending on where you live, you might consider homestay as a possibility for renting out a room. If you have language schools near you, they are generally always looking for good homestay families. It's usually a pretty good deal, too. A student from a foreign country comes here to study, usually anywhere from 3 or 4 weeks to several months. They rent a furnished room in your home; all the finances are taken care of through the homestay agency. Depending on the arrangment, you may provide a couple meals a day. The pay, at least around here, is quite good, and often, the students are busy doing so many things while they're here that they're not even around all that much. I have a friend who does it and it's been great--good extra income, not that much extra work, if the arrangement doesn't work out it's easy for them to change their placement, and you get to meet interesting people from different places.
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#27 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 05:42 PM
 
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a) take in daycare kids

-or- rent out a room or two in your house

b) when your husband agrees, short sale of house, walk away from it. With home insurance rates going up drastically in FL, more and more people will be doing this.

c) 2nd job (for you or husband). Home health aide to an elderly person might be a job you could bring the baby to.
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#28 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 06:41 PM
 
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After having read this entire thread, I have to say that I would do whatever I had to do to get out from under that house. Short selling is better than foreclosure, yk? Or, if you look into it, and it's not, I might consider letting the bank foreclose. You cannot continue to live off of your credit cards. Please trust me on this, we have been there. If you keep on this way, you are going to end up foreclosed on and bankrupt.

Trying to turn hearts and minds toward universal healthcare, one post at a time.
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#29 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 08:22 PM
 
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I don't know enough about money and finances to offer any help but after reading your two posts IMO the first thing you need to do is give your dh a large kick in the head to wake him up!! This sounds like you are in big big trouble and I don't think it matters that he doesn't like this or doesn't want to do that. I think he is trying very hard to avoid the problem and pretend it is not happening. I'm so sorry this is happening to you and I hope your dh can wake up and you can deal with this together.
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#30 of 38 Old 08-17-2007, 08:29 PM
 
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After reading about what your husband seems willing to do or not do, I think that sadly enough, I might recommend you getting a job If you knew that your dh would do WHATEVER it took to get you through this (including cutting out a car, getting a 2nd job, & pinching pennies), I would not worry about adding some credit card debt temporarily. But if dh is not committed to the things I listed above, the debt will probably just grow and grow to where you really are stuck, even worse than now. I'll tell you - I HATE not being a SAHM. I never wanted a career - I only wanted to be at home. But sometimes the mama has to stand up and do what needs to be done.
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