Would You Go $50,000 In Debt on Purpose?? - UPDATE IN THE OP - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 05:13 PM
 
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This really depends. First, I would strongly suggest seeing a professional financial advisor. They are not only for "rich people" and they could do a great job of making things more clear and have less risk.

$50K is a lot to pay back. But it depends on your personal situation. Like, do you have equity in your house? If so, taking some of that out is not really the same as "going into debt"... Also, educational loans have a much lower interest rates than other kinds. And many students (like your dh) have access to student health insurance that all of you could be covered under. It also depends on your family earning potential and what you can live without for the time being. 2 years of living on $50k is pretty frugal, to say the least ($25k/yr), so that is not such an outrageous sum. But if you do not have a plan to pay it back and you are not making every single penny work, then it can certainly be a brick for many, many years to come. On the reverse, it may be a small price to pay for time with your child you will never get back and a chance to live your life to the fullest.

See a financial planner. They will be in the best position to lay your options on the table.

Good luck!
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#62 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 05:18 PM
 
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I would not do it. The loan payments can be quite large and the lenders quite unforgiving. I would be very concerned about the possibility of needing a two person income just to pay that down. And then, you've defeated the purpose of staying home with your child. You're looking at 2 yrs of sacrifice versus possibly 10 years. Not a good bet, imo.

Also, my best friend is a nurse and she said it is very difficult in some areas. Hospitals don't want to pay benefits so they take on a lot of traveling/per diem type nurses. Your dh may not be guaranteed a great job right away with this crappy economy.

I would look for a better job or some combination of part time/wahm work. Someone suggested working for your dh's school. That's a great idea. You could get reduced childcare on campus and your dh could get reduced tuition.

Can you downsize your house or give up a car? (Maybe dh can use public transit for school.)


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Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
If the economy wasn't in the toilet with a serious likelihood of it getting worse before it gets better...maybe.

But I wouldn't do it in the next 5 years.

DH and I are worried enough that we've sacrificed to pay down the small remaining debt that we have and are living conservatively until we see how things shake out.

Until then, I'd try and find some kind of compromise solution. You don't want to be stuck with 50K in debt, creditors changing their policies about leniency due to financial strife, and then have DH not get a job as quickly as you anticipate.

So yeah, I'd look for a different job with different or less hours, even if it takes you awhile. Sadly, not even in-demand jobs like nursing are a guaranteed good job right out of school, not with outsourcing and importing--unless you're willing to move to wherever the job is.

So I'd look at the big picture. Is the goal to stay where you are now? I wouldn't be too attached to the idea for maximum flexibility--but if you are rooted in place then you need to make more concessions (DH slows down his schedule and/or interns/works part time at a medical corporation or office that is willing to guarantee him a job after graduation, you work part time, and you re-evaluate each semester to see where you are, ect.).

Don't go into that much debt and also rely on the best case scenarios. If you have some flexibility and plans for some of the worst case scenarios, then it may be doable.
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#63 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 05:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Demeter9 View Post
If you spend money you don't have today, you still are going to have to pay that money forward with interest. Quite a bit of interest probably.

You have too look at the big picture. Will this make it difficult for your children to play sports or join the swim team? Will you take your money now, and not have money for your child's post-secondary? Or if they have an accident?

Every dollar is a dollar less that you own your home. A dollar and a six cents from next year. Every dollar you spend in debt is a dollar that won't go to food, education, health.

If you will need to spend their preteens working your kester off to pay for their preschool years. Will they actually appreciate that? Will you?

Then you need to think about familial weath. The difference for your children and your grandchildren, if you can help them get education. A loan on their house down payment. A medical problem. Fertility treatments. A bad year. This is the difference between the family that has pulled itself up and just makes it and the family that is middle class but doesn't struggle every day to stay there. Could YOU and your husband be that turning point for your family? The turning point where a bad year won't mean a lifetime of pain for your grandchildren?

That is what I mean.
These are great points. Man, I wish 4 years ago when I decided to take out 60K for grad school that someone had said something like this to me. Like the OP I was banking on a bright future with my masters, well turned out that in my case I lack the needed ingredient of experience to pull in the big bucks starting out.

I didn't know that plus life intervened and now I have over 100K in student loans (undergrad plus grad together) plus about 50K in other debts that happened while I was in grad school and though we technically have what many folks would consider a good salary, beleive me its not when you owe boatloads of money. Plus the help that might be available to you now as students will not be there when you are making 50-60K yet your head is barely above water. (no state insurance, no food stamps, etc)

I can speak first hand that life in debt sucks and it sucks even more when you are supposedly well off but can't afford stuff and at a certain level its not even like you can cut back to pay off that level of debt.

Speaking as the parent of a toddler and a teenager, your kids will need you just as much when they get older. I had to work when my eldest was little and yes, it sucks that there were a lot of times I was plain tired but at almost 16 he needs me just as much if not more.

By all means if your job sucks, get another one or explore pt options and cutting back but I gotta say that to me intentionally going 50K in the hole with no guarantee that you can pay it off in a timely fashion is a bad idea to me.

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#64 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 05:28 PM
 
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I would not do it. The loan payments can be quite large and the lenders quite unforgiving. I would be very concerned about the possibility of needing a two person income just to pay that down. And then, you've defeated the purpose of staying home with your child. You're looking at 2 yrs of sacrifice versus possibly 10 years. Not a good bet, imo.
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#65 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 05:34 PM
 
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I wouldn't do it. Debt sucks donkey b*lls.
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#66 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 05:52 PM
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does getting a second mortgage mean pulling out most of the equity in your house? Do you have savings you can count on? What is your emergency plan if the student loans are two months late? I'd really hate to see you lose your house and end up spiralling into credit card debt for the next two years. Can you look into a different job with the company you are with?
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#67 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 06:20 PM
 
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If you're talking about student loans, take the guesswork out and use one of the online calculators to reckon the repayment schedule. FWIW, it's going to look a lot different than owing $50k on credit cards, which seems to be what a lot of people are assuming. The interest rate is a lot lower, and there are multiple repayment plans.

I think it is kind of ridiculous to get moralistic about student debt (like some posters are). It's a reality for most people who want to get an advanced education these days, especially master's or professional school. It's incredibly unjust that the only way to get that kind of education for many these days is to be in debt into our 50s, but it's not our fault, nor is it a reason to give up on completing an education.
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#68 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 06:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
If you're talking about student loans, take the guesswork out and use one of the online calculators to reckon the repayment schedule. FWIW, it's going to look a lot different than owing $50k on credit cards, which seems to be what a lot of people are assuming. The interest rate is a lot lower, and there are multiple repayment plans.

I think it is kind of ridiculous to get moralistic about student debt (like some posters are). It's a reality for most people who want to get an advanced education these days, especially master's or professional school. It's incredibly unjust that the only way to get that kind of education for many these days is to be in debt into our 50s, but it's not our fault, nor is it a reason to give up on completing an education.
I agree that student loans are an entirely different beast than say credit card debts.. that said on a standard repayment plan of say 10 years they are looking at monthly payments between $600-800 a month. Now if they want to drag it out, the payments will be less but that is still a lot of cash to be paying out.

Or say they do what I am doing which is a 30 year repayment plan on a graduated plan, I will be 64 (I'm almost 35 now and due to unexpected job loss currently deferring my loans) by the time my loans are paid off. That's a long time to deal with student loan debt. Considering it is not a sure thing that her dh will be making big money. Yes, nurses make good money but honestly is it big enough to absorb that level of debt. In the end they may still have to be a 2 income family just to get out of debt. Seems to me it would be better to sacrifice for 2 years if that means downsizing their current house, car or whatever to get her dh through school as quickly as possible without taking on debt.

Yes, student loans are different than say 50K in credit cards but that is a lot of $$ to be on the hook for and again speaking from experience if I had known how crappy it would be to be so far in the hole, I might have made different choices myself. I personally would have worked and gone to school versus only going to school.

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#69 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 06:45 PM
 
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#70 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 07:26 PM
 
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Not all schools give substantial tuition breaks to employees. I work for a large state university, and we are allowed to take two classes a year for free, but that's it.

I also agree that digging a huge hole for educational debt is not always a brilliant idea. I see far too many grad students up to their elbows in debt who are working on their PhD in Far Eastern Religion or History to believe that for a minute. The chances of these folks getting decent salaries later on are pretty small. Even if you are going for a professional degree it may not make sense to take out huge loans.

I got my Master's degree by going part time and working full time. It wasn't a great deal of fun while I was doing it, but I sure am glad not to have loans.
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#71 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 07:39 PM
 
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It's definitely good to be realistic about repayment. It's also good to be realistic about priorities. I'm perfectly happy to stay in a small home, have no car or a very modest one, and eat simply most of the time. In exchange for that, to have more time with my child and a job that really satisfies my soul. That's the tradeoff I'm making. I went way past the point of "safe bet" just trying to get a BA. I'm at peace with paying for 25 years, just as I will have to pay for rent or mortgage most likely the rest of my life. It would be nice if the gov't would hand me a house free and clear like they essentially did for my grandparents, but it's not gonna happen. I guess it doesn't make sense to me to be in a panic about what for me is just reality.
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#72 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 08:22 PM
 
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Student loan debt is debt. Period. It may be better debt than credit cards, and there are options that can make it more manageable, but you will have to pay it back in full and with interest. Also, if something financially catastrophic happens to your family where you cannot pay back your debt, student loan debt will not be included in bankruptcy.

I think you need to think about the long-term realities.
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#73 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 09:52 PM
 
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Student loan debt is debt. Period. It may be better debt than credit cards, and there are options that can make it more manageable, but you will have to pay it back in full and with interest. Also, if something financially catastrophic happens to your family where you cannot pay back your debt, student loan debt will not be included in bankruptcy.

I think you need to think about the long-term realities.
I don't know about where you live, but student loans are tax deductible in Canada.
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#74 of 120 Old 10-13-2007, 10:18 PM
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I don't know about where you live, but student loans are tax deductible in Canada.
In the US, the interest on student loans is tax deductible.

I think the answer to this question also depends a great deal on what type of loans are available. Credit card debt is very different from subsidized loans where the interest is deferred until the student leaves school one way or another.
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#75 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 03:00 PM
 
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I'd do it. I don't care about money, but I wouldn't want to miss out on my kids' lives.

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#76 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 03:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Demeter9 View Post
If you spend money you don't have today, you still are going to have to pay that money forward with interest. Quite a bit of interest probably.

You have too look at the big picture. Will this make it difficult for your children to play sports or join the swim team? Will you take your money now, and not have money for your child's post-secondary? Or if they have an accident?

Every dollar is a dollar less that you own your home. A dollar and a six cents from next year. Every dollar you spend in debt is a dollar that won't go to food, education, health.

If you will need to spend their preteens working your kester off to pay for their preschool years. Will they actually appreciate that? Will you?

Then you need to think about familial weath. The difference for your children and your grandchildren, if you can help them get education. A loan on their house down payment. A medical problem. Fertility treatments. A bad year. This is the difference between the family that has pulled itself up and just makes it and the family that is middle class but doesn't struggle every day to stay there. Could YOU and your husband be that turning point for your family? The turning point where a bad year won't mean a lifetime of pain for your grandchildren?

That is what I mean.
This is exactly what I was thinking about as I read this thread. $50k is a lot of money, no matter what kind of debt it is. I definitely think you should consider first what kind of debt you'd be undertaking (student loan interest versus credit card interest makes a huge difference)....and what kind of payment plan you'd be expected to have once you are in repayment. I also think you need to have an idea of what kind of job your DH is planning on getting. Figure out if you will need to move (and the cost of living in the new area), and what his starting salary range will be. You can find general information for salaries on places like salary.com.

Personally, I would do whatever it took to avoid going into that kind of debt because it would take so long to get out of it. I've had the job where I hated it with a passion, where I'd cry every morning, but I've never been the sole breadwinner with a small child. Willingly putting myself in that position is far outside of my comfort zone.
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#77 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 03:35 PM
 
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I went into $300k debt to buy a house, and $60k more debt for my college education. I consider these things to be "good debt" and worth it.

It sounds to me like your scenario falls under the same umbrella. Debt is just debt. It isn't the end of the world, and I really can't stand it when people act like it's a moral failing to have debt.
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#78 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 07:26 PM
 
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It's not a moral failing to have debt, but it does make life harder, imo.

We have $100,000 in school loan debt between the two of us. We also had $40,000 in credit card debt from living on them during school when the loans weren't enough. It's taken 6 years of marriage to pay back the credit cards nad some of the student loans. Our minimum payments at this point are $700 a month. That's on 30 year repayment plans. When I graduated from school, I did not make enough money to cover my minimum payments. Thank God for consolidation and marriage (with my dh's salary ) Student loans are still debt, still have to be repaid, and there's no way (except for death) to get out of them.
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#79 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 07:49 PM
 
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I just thank God that so many good people are willing to take on mega-debt to prepare for jobs where they help people in profound ways. Nurses, social workers, lawyers, doctors, teachers, pastors, rabbis, etc. Honestly, I am thankful to everyone who does this. And God willing I'll be one of them soon.
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I'd look for another job. That kind of debt would frighten me.
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#81 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 08:37 PM
 
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I just thank God that so many good people are willing to take on mega-debt to prepare for jobs where they help people in profound ways. Nurses, social workers, lawyers, doctors, teachers, pastors, rabbis, etc. Honestly, I am thankful to everyone who does this. And God willing I'll be one of them soon.
I know people who have had to make different choices than what they originally wanted to do because of their student loan debt. A MSW friend took a DCFS caseworker job instead of going into adoption because she needed the higher pay for her student loans. A nurse we know works 2 jobs to pay off their BSN from a private university, and wishes she went to the community college for an ADN instead.

Debt influences the choices you can make in the future.

And for nursing, there is no reason to go into mega-debt. Especially when one spouse can work and bring in money.
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#82 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 09:22 PM
 
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just thank God that so many good people are willing to take on mega-debt to prepare for jobs where they help people in profound ways. Nurses, social workers, lawyers, doctors, teachers, pastors, rabbis, etc. Honestly, I am thankful to everyone who does this. And God willing I'll be one of them soon.
With the exception of law school and medical school, it is entirely possibly to gain the education one needs without major debt. My dh is a teacher and didn't go into major debt to do so. I got both an undergraduate degree and a master's degree without paying a single cent in tuition (scholarships, assistantships, fellowships). Education doesn't HAVE to cause major debt.

Not to mention,that as the previous poster mentioned, debt definitely influences what job one takes. I have a friend who is an RN and does the night shift because it pays more (because she needs more money to pay off student debt), however the hours of that ARE taking a toll on her and her family. It is definitely very hard to adjust to that schedule of working some nights, off some nights.

No debt is not a moral failing, however it does make things harder. Plus, debt like this can never go away (until you die or pay it off). At least with a mortgage, one can always sell the house, not mention that usually one would be paying that money in rent anyway.

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#83 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 09:39 PM
 
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Guess that's what I get for trying to say something positive in a thread full of hysteria and doomsaying. You sure showed me!
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#84 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Can I ask why you are making this plan with your friend's input rather than your husband's? What does he think of this? Is he sympathetic to your feelings of missing your child's young years? Can you cut back on a great many things in order to keep from racking up 50K?
OP here!


LOL, DH and I are making this decision together! I just didn't put it in the OP, but yes, he is very "in" on this. He feels mixed, too, and wants to get others input. He is very sympathetic about my feelings about missing DS's young years.

Oh, someone asked "Why $50k" (good question). Because we are estimating that it will cost us about $25/year to live, probably less actually, but we wanted to estimate too high rather than too low.

And DH has 2 years left of school.
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#85 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Making yourself calm and peaceful is worth everything in th world as it will affect your whole family. I've learnd this recently and it's worth it's weight in gold.


Thank you. This is what I keep hearing, and it makes more and more sense.
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#86 of 120 Old 10-14-2007, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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it depends, what kind of nursing is your DH thinking of going into? with a BSN he certainly does have a huge income potential but more so if he is interested in going into ciritical care and is okay with off shifts (2nd or 3rd shift) if that is the case, then i say yeah go for it. =


Yep, he is getting his BSN, and wants to do some type of nursing specialty that pays well. He will be making good $ when he's done, that is not an issue here.
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#87 of 120 Old 10-15-2007, 10:47 AM
 
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Guess that's what I get for trying to say something positive in a thread full of hysteria and doomsaying. You sure showed me!

you tried
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#88 of 120 Old 10-15-2007, 11:27 AM
 
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I just thank God that so many good people are willing to take on mega-debt to prepare for jobs where they help people in profound ways. Nurses, social workers, lawyers, doctors, teachers, pastors, rabbis, etc. Honestly, I am thankful to everyone who does this. And God willing I'll be one of them soon.
Absolutely. However, many people do need a reality check on this spending. If you go into 60K of debt, then take off 4-10 years to raise children, and then end up in a job that you like alright but makes 10 bucks and hour....you've over trained.

All knowledge is good. All education is good. Debt for no purpose is not.
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#89 of 120 Old 10-15-2007, 11:54 AM
 
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We are doing that. I look at it as an investment in my child. In our case it's more of about $12,000 a year, as my DH is not only a full time student, but a full time employee as well. His salary pays the bills and the student loans we take out pay for everyday expenses. It's nice because it enables me to stay home and be a full time mom.
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#90 of 120 Old 10-15-2007, 02:02 PM
 
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I don't know about where you live, but student loans are tax deductible in Canada.
Actually, it's just the interest payments that are tax deductible (small PSA for Canadians). And, of course, if you decide to consolidate under a line of credit, it's no longer officially a student loan, so you don't get the deduction.



[QUOTE=Empress;9433285]I know people who have had to make different choices than what they originally wanted to do because of their student loan debt. A MSW friend took a DCFS caseworker job instead of going into adoption because she needed the higher pay for her student loans. A nurse we know works 2 jobs to pay off their BSN from a private university, and wishes she went to the community college for an ADN instead.

Debt influences the choices you can make in the future.

QUOTE]


Yes, that. My career choices were very strongly influenced by debt, and that ends up being the case for many professionals.

I'm not totally sure what I would do in your situation. I'd lean towards a middle ground - leave the horrific job for your own health and sanity, but do whatever you can over the next two years to avoid that level of debt. Part-time work, babysitting, paper routes. Can your husband work in the summer? We lived on student loans when I was finishing school, and having the early years together as a family was fantastic, but on the other hand we're all paying for it now, with my long hours.

Hence the middle ground. You don't want the fact that you left your lousy job today to be the reason your dh has to stay in a lousy job tomorrow.
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