Dumping Debt with Dave Ramsey/DECEMBER - Page 11 - Mothering Forums

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#301 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 01:00 AM
 
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My BEF has increased dramatically today... Thanks to Christmas money! I don't have a number yet b/c I have to use some for gates for DS. But it won't be small...
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#302 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 01:12 AM
 
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And I NEED a new computer. Need, as in I write, and would liek to get published and a laptop would be SUCH a gift. I could writesomewhere other than the living room with the kids and dh and the tv, etc. I swear, this is my calling, to write, to be published. I NEED THIS!
This coming from a fellow writer... You do not need a laptop or a new computer at all, *unless* your old one doesn't work, hosts viruses, etc. Use your writing money to buy one, and you'll feel so much better and more appreciative! Believe me... Plus, if you ever do write as a business, whatever you buy for the puter would be a tax deduction. If you get a business going before the puter, then you can write that off, too.

I say pay off the debts and others you owe, fully fund your EF, and buy the mattress. Then, decide what to specifically save for next.
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#303 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 02:10 AM
 
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(And still be putting extra on the mortgage each month)
I would actually recommend against paying extra on your mortgage every month. Unless you have enough money to just pay it off outright (or at the very end of your mortgage), you really don't see any immediate benefit in making small extra monthly payments. For instance, an extra $100 every month might shorten your mortgage by a few years but until you get to the very end of the mortgage it won't help you.

If money is tight, you would be far better saving that extra money so that you could use to make your house payment (or for anything else) when you need it. If you save an extra $100 a month at the end of the year you would have $1200 saved up. But if you throw that money at your 30-year mortage, if you lost your job in a year, you still need to make the house payment and the extra 1200 would not have reduced your monthly payment you need to make. You would not be able to get at that money without taking out a home equity loan, which is costly and just adds to your debt.

I recently read a very good quote from Ben Stein about this:


Quote:
I get many letters asking whether it's better to pay off your mortgage or invest the money in the stock market instead. This is a complex question, but I'll offer several ways of thinking about it.

First, no one ever spent a sleepless night because she had millions in the bank and stocks but didn't have her home paid off. On the other hand, if you pay off your mortgage and deprive yourself of liquidity, you could be in for some miserable times.

As I see it, if money is even the slightest bit tight, hold onto it and pay off the mortgage month by month. There's nothing magically good about having a paid-off mortgage, but there's something seriously bad about not having ready liquid assets even if your home is paid for.

Yes, I know you can refinance and borrow against your house. But that takes time and creates aggravation. Why not just pay off the mortgage slowly but steadily and hang onto the liquidity that makes life so much more comfortable instead?

Mommy to DS Adrian 8/10/04 and DD Geneva 9/02/09
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#304 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 05:39 AM
 
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That is great, Red

Well DH and I get paid today. I wont know how much my check is until I get to work Friday night. I know I have some extra money in my check due to my coworkers inability to drive in the snow. So that $10 or so dollars will go in to the EF. We also managed to save around $8 out of budgeted gas money that will also go to the EF. When I started off at the beginning of December I had $0 in savings, now I have $123.13 and will add more this weekend, so I am excited about it

I put a sticky note on my computer monitor detailing how much is in the EF. That is keeping me motivated because I see it every time I sit down at the computer.

I have only used half of a tank of gas this whole month, thanks to my serious driving ban. I am going to fill up on Monday because my FIL has this thing about always having at least a half a tank at all times in case of emergency. But it feels good to cut down on gas use so much, and to save the wear on my car in general.

ribbonpurple.gif  "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin
   
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#305 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 01:36 PM
 
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I was reading this and thinking, you know, in the past we've always used our tax return for things we needed. This year, I can't wait to get it so that we can pay off debt.

Midwife (CPM, LDM) and homeschooling mama to:
13yo ds   10yo dd  8yo ds and 6yo ds and 1yo ds  
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#306 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 01:51 PM
 
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Congrats Red! I would still fully fund the EF, especially if your DH is laid off and isn't due to retire in 2 years. You never know if you have some unforseen medical expenses that could wipe out your retirement income. Is your retirement fund fully funded? I think DR recommends 15% into that before paying off mortgage. He also recommends a 15yr mortgage, not a 30yr, so you could use a mortgage calculator to see what your payment would be for a 15 yr, and adjust accordingly. How many more years to you have and how much do you have left? It would be nice not to have to worry about a mortgage payment once you and your DH retire. You can always call into DR's show and ask what he would recommend.

I would definitely buy the new mattress. Old mattresses can cause lots of medical problems. In 10 years mattresses double in weight with dust mite feces and cause allergies, athsma, and other breathing problems. To me that is a necessity.

Does your DH have a riding lawn mower? As an alternative to a 4 wheeler, you could get a trailer for it to load the wood into to transport, or some sort of farm tractor that you can get used for much cheaper.
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#307 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 02:09 PM
 
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We didn't have all that good a month. We did good on presents. Only about $150 total, plus a toy coop back in sept/oct. But my DH used a CC check for $8K with 3.9% interest to consolidate a 14.9% card that had a balance of 5,900, plus home depot 0% card that a portion was about to expire for about 400. The rest was used for x-mas presents and $600 is being used for new doors for the newly renovated baby's room (lead paint). That leaves a little left. And we need to have some plumbing work done as well. We need to figure out how much we need to pay bills to stay on budget and the rest will go back on CC's. So we have increased our debt yet again for the 3rd month in a row! . We started this in Nov, so the most progress we have is just figuring out our budget and getting the envelope system working right. We actually are lucky we have that extra cushion, because I was negative on our budget for the 12/28's income that needed to go to mortgage, we were about $200 short. We have $25/1000 for our BEF, and our occassional fund has over $200 in it, but it seems like what I need to budget for to go into that fund, I am always lowering every paycheck to make our budget work. I am going to have to get on selling some "stuff" off just for our expected expenses. I am really gung ho on getting our grocery budget down, and will be working out spreadsheets to compare the local stores prices. I am reading "Miserly Moms" right now, so it has lots of ideas I can use.
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#308 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 05:31 PM
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We did good with Christmas shopping, stayed on budget and added nothing new to the ccs. I paid off my cc in Nov/Dec and it feels great to know dh's is next on the block. I'm waiting a retro paycheque that will jump start paying his down.

My dilemma. I work what is supposed to be very part time as a building superintendent for 600/month. For a variety of reasons its turned into far more hours yet no more pay and gets me no break on condo expenses etc. We use my cheque for faster debt repayment but with the extra hours and being on call all the time, I'm tired of it and dh is tired of it too. Quit and try and find other ways to make up the money/tighten the belt? Or stick with it for a year knowing at the end of the year we should have all our cc debt gone?
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#309 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 06:04 PM
 
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Can you bring up to your boss that your in need of a raise or less hours?
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#310 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 07:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ReikiMommy07 View Post
This coming from a fellow writer... You do not need a laptop or a new computer at all, *unless* your old one doesn't work, hosts viruses, etc. Use your writing money to buy one, and you'll feel so much better and more appreciative! Believe me... Plus, if you ever do write as a business, whatever you buy for the puter would be a tax deduction. If you get a business going before the puter, then you can write that off, too.

I say pay off the debts and others you owe, fully fund your EF, and buy the mattress. Then, decide what to specifically save for next.
As another fellow writer, I second this. If you continually are saying to yourself "If I had this (insert whatever here) I could write" then you need to stop talking/dreaming about writing and start actually writing.

If you want to write, you will. Any time, any place - with a pen/paper, with a computer in the midst of the family room, on the back of a mustard-smeared napkin at a softball game. Just do it.

Carve yourself out writing time or learn to concentrate in the middle of a ruckus and sell some pieces. THEN buy the laptop from your earnings and use it as a tax deduction for your new career.
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#311 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 07:41 PM
 
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So i'm feeling totally stressed about this whole money managment thing
I've always wanted to be opposite from my mom in that I would have $$ in the bank- so I’ve always had 1k-5k in savings and at least $200 "x-tra" in my checking (jut incase i calculate wrong or something). Your thinking- oh that’s great (well maybe not this group of womyn )- but it’s not so great when I just can’t bring myself to take out what’s above the 1k EF to pay towards debt, or anything else for that matter!
I find myself budgeting and making sure that i'm WAY low-balling my income so that I will always have significant $$ left over. I could never have my checking account below $200 or I feel like I’m having a panic attack.

Any recommendations?

also- I have an equity loan with a balance of 10k at 8% and a CC with a balance of 6K at 4.99% till paid off
From what i've read I would pay off the lower debt- but that has the better rate. Would I be a fool for paying off the 10k first to avoid actually paying more?

p.s.i dont have the book yes, just got my library to do a transfer and should have it in 2 weeks or so
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#312 of 369 Old 12-28-2007, 08:29 PM
 
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I applied for a consolidated loan, to get a better rate. I hope that was a good move. Seems good. The woman I had a meeting with said yes, it is a good move, but she works for the bank.
There will be about $700 extra if/when the loan comes through.
Does that money go right back to the loan, into the EF or elsewhere?


I now have 2 EF started. One at my bank, and one else where that had a good interest rate and if you get over $1000 it has an even better rate.
I have 25/1000 in each. I will fill up the one with better interest rates first and spend it last(or hopefully not at all).

Decluttering 500/2010
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#313 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 01:19 AM
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Whoa! Thread trouble. All your answers ddin't show up until I went to post.

ReikiMommy07, I'll be hoping for a really big number for you!

ShawnMarie and ReikiMommy07, I do write, every day. However, I have to wait until the teens aren't using the puter, or I can't work on my novel, which is in the puter. I wind up working on it at odd hours or trying to concentrate while all heck is breaking loose and I'd much prefer to have a bit of space. I did Nanowrimo in notebooks, so I was able to do it whereever I was, but my novel needs revising.

And the present puter won't do much of anything but check email. THe kids want to be able to play a few games. Our living room is, I swear, less than 6 feet wide and about 10 feet long. THere's about a foot between the tv and the puter.

I wrote said novel in my car while waiting outside the kids schools, or at soccer pratice, and in the orthodontists office, etc. I've used a crayon on a paper grocery bag. I dont' NEED a laptop, you're both right. I just want one. Really really want one.


With an extra $530 a month, what we'd been paying in cc and dentists bills, money won't be all that tight. Our last chickies will leave the nest this coming fall. (Or will be paying room and board.)

Heather423
I want to pay off the mortgage, which we just got, so there's 29 and a 1/2 years on it, so that we'll have it easier in our distant retirement. Dh retires in 2 plus years, he's counting the days, whether he wants to or not. (As long as he lives, we'll have plenty. More, in fact, than we live on now, with the kids. Enough for vacations, a cruise every year, etc. I've gone to all the retirement calculators and they say we have 100% chance of having enough money, even if we live to be 100! Should I outlive him, I'd lose about what the mortgage payment is a month.) Not only is our retirement fully funded, but we have better health ins in retirement than we do now. (Unions are wierd!) By paying some extra each month, we can pay it off in 12 years!

We have NO equipment and do everythig by hand. By saving for the 4 wheeler until summer, dh will have it much easier. As I said, it will pay for itself in only one season of hauling wood, so it seems like a good idea, esp since we'll have no other debts, except for monthly bills and the mortgage.

After 23 years, the mattress must weigh a ton! I'm willing, at this point to wait until the summer for a new one. But it is a NEED. However, after teh puter, which we've chosen for our one purchase, we'll be saving for the 4 wheeler and mattress, not just going out and buying them.

Thanks for all the advice! I appreciate it all, and sometimes have to think it over for a day or two before I come around to thinking 'right'.



mtm, call that landlord and tell him you need fewer hours and more money!


Areannasmom, I'd think having a bit estra cash in the checking was a good idea, But I don't really know! and BunnySlippers, I wish I had a clue!
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#314 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 01:33 AM
 
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How do you handle dumping the car payment for a cheaper used car when you don't have the savings to do it? We have lots of debt and a $13K car loan (second car is paid off). Is it best to keep the car, while saving and by a clunker in cash, or to sell the expensive used car for a cheaper used car still on a loan? Thanks!

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#315 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 01:44 AM
 
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OK Red (I think it was you anyway! ) I still say save for the puter *by writing for it!* Do you have any idea how hard it is to publish a novel? And how long it takes? I suggest writing and selling other things--mainly non-fiction--and using your earnings to buy a laptop. You can work on your novel while you sell these things, but you won't be as dry as far as income goes. Having had joint pain for 10+ years, the matress would be so much more important to me than a laptop...!!! Just so you get where I'm coming from.
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#316 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 01:45 AM
 
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BTW I just checked... And my BEF = $850/1000!
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#317 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 01:50 AM
 
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Just chiming in with good news: dh has been given a nice retention bonus, so we paid off a huge chunk of cc debt with only $508 more left to go!!!! .

We still have a low-interest loan which we're making payments to, but at least our EF is now fully funded. I've figured out that the loan will be paid off by the end of 2008!!!! And then we'll be debt free and can start saving for a down-payment on our first home in the US! Jay, us!!!
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#318 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 02:31 AM
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ReikiMommy07, considering that I've submitted to (the novel ) to numerous publishers, yep, I do know how hard it is to get a novel published! That's why I'm re-writing.

I am terrible at non-fiction!!! I jsut can't get a grip on it! It's so totally different.


I started this journey in 2000. I have had the goal of selling something (short story, maybe) by this coming JUNE! I don't need a laptop to do it. (I just WANT one!)


I have what I think is a great short story, and once the cc's are paid off, I'll have enough $$ to put it in some contests that will actually send you a crit. (as recommended by the Writer's Market books.)

My only joint pain is in my knees and I suspect it's due to menopause. I've been taking vitamins. I totally get where you're coming from.


Uh, have I mentioned ( I know I haven't ) that dd28 and her new dh are moving up here...I mean IN HERE, as of New Years Eve? Yep, there'll be 7 of us in 1000 sq ft! I raised 5 kids here, so w'eve had 7 before, but this is 7 mostly adults....and our two cats, their cat and dog! I'm already freaking out, with both joy and trepidation.


However, she'll be bringing HER laptop, which I should be able to use on occassion. I used dd19's yesterday. Today my novel went from 233 pages to 433........200 pages of one sentece and two pages of nothing, then another sentence, in no particular order. Took me hours to straighten out.


(I think part of the reason I so want a laptop is that I dream of hiding in it! Virtual Red! DD is so high-maintenance. I love her, but she'd make God want a quiet corner! )


Just another $150 and you're there!


michelle1k, congrats and good luck with your goals!
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#319 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 11:38 AM
 
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Also, we have some pretty urgent household repairs. Our bathroom wall is literally crumbling, our doors are so poorly framed you can see daylight through them, etc. How do these sorts of things figure into the TMM? We are planning on using half of the money from my grandma to repair the bathroom and replace two of the exterior doors. It's hard not to use it on debt, but there is a point where the repairs are urgent, KWIM?

I am excited to get going! Determined not to make a mess of this again, to stop feeling sorry for myself, blaming the mess on DH, etc. and get out of debt!

There have been a few callers in to the Dave Ramsey Show that have had the same situation. Is the bathroom dangerous? Mold and such? Do you have a second bathroom? If the bathroom is still usable (although unsightly) or you have a second bathroom and can close off this one then I would wait. Get your emergency funded and walk the baby steps. After we did each step we celebrated a bit. So you could do the bathroom, with cash, after you fully fund your 3-6mon emergency fund. If it is in a dangerous state or no extra bathroom then that would be considered an emergency and would come from the emergency fund. Then back to focus on the fund again.

It is so great to get those bursts of extra money. Once on a budget in our family we were getting extra money but only within our already existing money. Strange but true for us.

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#320 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 11:43 AM
 
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I find the debt card to be so dangerous. Anyway, we are getting Dave Ramsey's book tomorrow, they didn't have it at our library
For now I will learn from you guys
Welcome!

My purse contents were stole in October: cash, wallet, etx. Since then I have not requested a duplicate copy to my main bank for my debit card. I only carry the envelope with the cash for the items that I need. So today I will be taking the clothing fund to purchase laundry detergent from the natural store on my way to work.

Plastic is plastic when it come to how we emotionally spend. There were planty of times in my past where we would over spend on debt and incure over fees. I only use debit for online purchases and sometimes my dh uses it for gas.

Be well,

Shane - Homeschooling mom to three boys (12, 1-, 8) and living the open life with my husband.

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#321 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 11:51 AM
 
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My BEF has increased dramatically today... Thanks to Christmas money! I don't have a number yet b/c I have to use some for gates for DS. But it won't be small...
Gift money is so great! My dh is the spender and always gets excited about what he can buy with it. I like to put all my gift money towards the current item on our extras list. Our dishwasher door would not close without pounding it so we have been saving for a new one. Oh, it also leaks huge puddles into the kitchen and the cabinet under the sink. My father gave us a generous gift of $300 and then dh parents gave us $200 and dh parents also gave me $100 for my birthday! Seeing that my dh is the spender he had planned on going out with me with the money from his parents. We negotiated and agreed to split the money. So, we got to go out with the $100 and put the other $100 to the dish washer. When we came home this week from our family travels I was able to find a consumer reports recommended dishwasher and was also able to afford the instilation. This past year we have had to purchase a new washing machine, range, and now the dishwasher. Our cabinets are falling apart but that is another story.....

Shane - Homeschooling mom to three boys (12, 1-, 8) and living the open life with my husband.

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#322 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 11:58 AM
 
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I recently read a very good quote from Ben Stein about this:

I get many letters asking whether it's better to pay off your mortgage or invest the money in the stock market instead. This is a complex question, but I'll offer several ways of thinking about it.

First, no one ever spent a sleepless night because she had millions in the bank and stocks but didn't have her home paid off. On the other hand, if you pay off your mortgage and deprive yourself of liquidity, you could be in for some miserable times.

As I see it, if money is even the slightest bit tight, hold onto it and pay off the mortgage month by month. There's nothing magically good about having a paid-off mortgage, but there's something seriously bad about not having ready liquid assets even if your home is paid for.

Yes, I know you can refinance and borrow against your house. But that takes time and creates aggravation. Why not just pay off the mortgage slowly but steadily and hang onto the liquidity that makes life so much more comfortable instead?
If you are finished with baby steps 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and are on 6 pay off the house then pay off the house. This quote above is not under Dave's recommended plan. Mortage is a debt. He does say get the first 5 steps done before working on the mortgage. I look forward to working on the mortgage but first need to finished the Bar Mitzva's and beging a regular college funding. Then I will put small payments towards. Money is 80% emotional. It is going to make me feel so good to put money to the mortgage, it will motivate me to put as much as I can to be rid or it. I will be having a mortgage burning party when I'm done!

Be well,

Shane - Homeschooling mom to three boys (12, 1-, 8) and living the open life with my husband.

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#323 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 12:00 PM
 
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Is anyone else or their DP self employed? Can we talk about paying taxes if there is anyone here???
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#324 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 12:03 PM
 
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I put a sticky note on my computer monitor detailing how much is in the EF. That is keeping me motivated because I see it every time I sit down at the computer.

I have only used half of a tank of gas this whole month, thanks to my serious driving ban. I am going to fill up on Monday because my FIL has this thing about always having at least a half a tank at all times in case of emergency. But it feels good to cut down on gas use so much, and to save the wear on my car in general.

Jamie:

Like minds thinks alike! I have our budget hanging right next to the computer (we have this devise that holds paper with an arm coming off the computer). I also have a second sheet with our extras listed.

Back when we began the plan (Oct 06) I also cut driving drastically. Until we were out of our debt (took 2 months) I would not do any unnecessary driving. This included all activities: park day, playdates, library. I would drive to work and try to get my errands done to and from work. It made a big difference especially in my thinking and that is the first battle.

Be well,

Shane - Homeschooling mom to three boys (12, 1-, 8) and living the open life with my husband.

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#325 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 12:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by phathui5 View Post
I was reading this and thinking, you know, in the past we've always used our tax return for things we needed. This year, I can't wait to get it so that we can pay off debt.
What is everyone planning on doing with their returns?

We have also been working on getting our return lower so we can have our money and not loan it to the government without interest.

This year the money will be going to our Bar Mitzva fund. I think it will get it up to the amount we want to one child $7000. I think I will stop funding it then and let it grow until Theodore needs it in about 4 years. Then see where it's at and put into again for boy #2 who will then need it two years from then.

So, since I'm hoping to get that done this spring then we can start putting money towards the boys college. Yea!

Be well,


Then nexts years tax return will go towards the college fund.

Shane - Homeschooling mom to three boys (12, 1-, 8) and living the open life with my husband.

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#326 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 12:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mtm View Post
My dilemma. I work what is supposed to be very part time as a building superintendent for 600/month. For a variety of reasons its turned into far more hours yet no more pay and gets me no break on condo expenses etc. We use my cheque for faster debt repayment but with the extra hours and being on call all the time, I'm tired of it and dh is tired of it too. Quit and try and find other ways to make up the money/tighten the belt? Or stick with it for a year knowing at the end of the year we should have all our cc debt gone?
I agree with the poster in asking for more pay. I'm making about 800 a month working as a grocery store cashier in the evenings. Don't let your self be used beyond the original agreement.

Be well,

Shane - Homeschooling mom to three boys (12, 1-, 8) and living the open life with my husband.

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#327 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 12:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Areannasmom View Post
So i'm feeling totally stressed about this whole money managment thing
I've always wanted to be opposite from my mom in that I would have $$ in the bank- so I’ve always had 1k-5k in savings and at least $200 "x-tra" in my checking (jut incase i calculate wrong or something). Your thinking- oh that’s great (well maybe not this group of womyn )- but it’s not so great when I just can’t bring myself to take out what’s above the 1k EF to pay towards debt, or anything else for that matter!
I find myself budgeting and making sure that i'm WAY low-balling my income so that I will always have significant $$ left over. I could never have my checking account below $200 or I feel like I’m having a panic attack.

Any recommendations?

also- I have an equity loan with a balance of 10k at 8% and a CC with a balance of 6K at 4.99% till paid off
From what i've read I would pay off the lower debt- but that has the better rate. Would I be a fool for paying off the 10k first to avoid actually paying more?

p.s.i dont have the book yes, just got my library to do a transfer and should have it in 2 weeks or so
The book will be a big help after reading it. What you are feeling is normal. Money is 80% emotional and %20 math. Paying off the smallest debt will get rid of it FOREVER! What a beautiful feeling that it to be able to close the account.

$1000 you have the baby emergency fund, that is excellent. Take the extra and put it towards your debt. You would pay a great chunk off the $6000.

Be well,

Shane - Homeschooling mom to three boys (12, 1-, 8) and living the open life with my husband.

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#328 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 12:21 PM
 
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I applied for a consolidated loan, to get a better rate. I hope that was a good move. Seems good. The woman I had a meeting with said yes, it is a good move, but she works for the bank.
There will be about $700 extra if/when the loan comes through.
Does that money go right back to the loan, into the EF or elsewhere?


I now have 2 EF started. One at my bank, and one else where that had a good interest rate and if you get over $1000 it has an even better rate.
I have 25/1000 in each. I will fill up the one with better interest rates first and spend it last(or hopefully not at all).
Dave calls a consolidation loan a CONsolidation loan. You have moved all your debts to a differnt site and called it a different name. If you can stop the loan then I would. If it is too late then that 'extra' $700 should be put towards your emergency fund. There should be only one baby emergency fund and interest has nothing to do with it. It needs to be close and very liquid. If you work so hard at getting a 'great' rate then you will be reluctant to use it because of the 'great' rate.

Be well,

Shane - Homeschooling mom to three boys (12, 1-, 8) and living the open life with my husband.

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#329 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 01:03 PM
 
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Ok, I need a shot in the arm. Paying off this $5000 cc debt is taking. FOREVER. And we are paying huge chunks, $500 or more a month. I mean, yes, it's gone down, but $4000 is still a lot of money. and so is $3000. It seems overwhelming.
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#330 of 369 Old 12-29-2007, 02:26 PM
 
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ya, I canceled the loan. After sleeping on it, it did not seem like a great move for a few reasons. She was surprised and tried to offer negotiations. I said no thanks.

Decluttering 500/2010
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