So what's the deal with Target? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 115 Old 02-21-2008, 07:00 PM
 
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i don't get it. do you never need anything that comes from a big, evil corporation?
That is exactly my point. People spend so much time avoiding Walmart and then they go to another place that gets stuff from the same sources. The problem isn't the stores themselves, it's the way our country does business, and the way all of these companies get their products.

That is precisely the point. People put out all this energy avoiding Walmart just to spend their dollars somewhere else where another company is profiting from the same thing. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Since everyone is just trying to get by, why do we spend so much time blasting people for shopping at Walmart when, by shopping at Kmart, Target, Safeway, or many other places we are contributing to the same problem?

I honestly don't know what the solution is, but I wish some of these smart people who spend all this time crunching numbers and researching this stuff would come up with a solution that doesn't involve telling the poor to just stop shopping at Walmart. It isn't that simple when shopping elsewhere doesn't really make any difference if you keep buying the same crap. How about finding ways to produce the same products without using slave labor? How about pressuring our government to stop making it profitable for corporations to move manufacturing out of our country?

Building another store with shinier floors and prettier packaging isn't the answer, that much I do know. And that is again, much of the deal about Target. It's a prettier Walmart.

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#92 of 115 Old 02-21-2008, 11:59 PM
 
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Exactly. And that is what most people think when they are at Walmart.

But, IRL, and online, I have been involved in conversations where people seem to have the idea that it is preferable to shop at Target because they're better than Walmart, and I just don't believe it's true.

The deal with Target is, like Walmart, they get their stuff from whoever will sell it to them the cheapest. Like any other business, they are trying to make money.
What business is not trying to make money? What is wrong with making money? Why do I work if not to make money? Isn't that the whole point of the American Way?

It's profitable for corporations to move out of the US because the cost of manufacturing in the US is higher. So they move to China. But as more manufacturing is done there, the costs in China are rising, so now they move on to Vietnam. So it might seem like slave wages to us, since the Vietnamese get like 5 bucks a day for doing things we would at least take 10 bucks an hour. But here it costs us 2.50 for coffee, whereas there it's only 10 cents for coffee. Yea, the conditions are not up to US standards. So what? I've had this discussion with my parents, taking much the position you are. They're 1st gen immigrants, and feel that any work for their countrymen is beneficial.

Who here wants to pay the full cost of products made in the US? We've collectively voted with our pocketbooks a long time ago. I don't think pressuring the government will help, that's a top down solution. It's another symptom of a sick society. Ever notice how obsessed americans are with avoiding fats, and yet we have the highest rate of obesity. We're obsessed with getting more cheaper stuff, and yet look at our rate of consumer debt.
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#93 of 115 Old 02-22-2008, 12:20 AM
 
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What business is not trying to make money? What is wrong with making money? Why do I work if not to make money? Isn't that the whole point of the American Way?
There is nothing wrong with trying to make money. But if people are going to criticize Walmart for making money a certain way, it isn't right to look the other way when other companies do the same thing. It's either fine for everyone, or it isn't.

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#94 of 115 Old 02-22-2008, 12:31 AM
 
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I live in a VERY small town and we do not have a single clothing store in town. None. Also no shoe stores. If we drive to the closest clothing/shoe store its 50miles round trip. Then once there, which btw is 25,000 people, there are like 2 mom/pop stores. The rest are Dillards, JCPenney, Walmart, Target, Kmart, Old Navy, TJMaxx. The mom/pop stores sell their dresses for 100$plus. Shoes there are high end, none under 90$. They cater to the "upper end" of the salarymeter. So where does that leave you? Which of the above are the best? I do not like ordering online for everything, especially if you have to return things. IF you stop and think about how much gas is used to get things across the country to your doorstep that's certainly not enviro friendly. It makes my head spin trying to do the right thing and still take care of my family. I have to let a certain amount of things go, because really I just can't always do everything "right". I have to make feasible choices, livable choices.
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#95 of 115 Old 02-22-2008, 01:02 AM
 
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I live in a VERY small town and we do not have a single clothing store in town. None. Also no shoe stores. If we drive to the closest clothing/shoe store its 50miles round trip. Then once there, which btw is 25,000 people, there are like 2 mom/pop stores. The rest are Dillards, JCPenney, Walmart, Target, Kmart, Old Navy, TJMaxx. The mom/pop stores sell their dresses for 100$plus. Shoes there are high end, none under 90$. They cater to the "upper end" of the salarymeter. So where does that leave you? Which of the above are the best? I do not like ordering online for everything, especially if you have to return things. IF you stop and think about how much gas is used to get things across the country to your doorstep that's certainly not enviro friendly. It makes my head spin trying to do the right thing and still take care of my family. I have to let a certain amount of things go, because really I just can't always do everything "right". I have to make feasible choices, livable choices.
And that is the other side of it. Why are the people who can least afford it the ones who have to make that choice? Why aren't the people who make all the money being made to do something instead? It always gets turned around to where it's the responsibility of the people who can least afford it to make the difference instead of making the people who profit responsible.
The reality is, people will go where they can afford to buy what they need, or in some cases, where they can find what they need in their area, and no amount of anti-Walmart websites is going to change that.


Target stocking a few free trade items doesn't make the problem go away, and it doesn't change anything for the people who have to shop at any of these places. It's a marketing ploy, plain and simple, and apparently it's working for them.

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#96 of 115 Old 02-22-2008, 09:22 AM
 
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I work in retail and the "MIC" brouhaha drives us nuts. Practically everything you have bought for a long time is MIC and you didn't know or care, and you got used to the prices. Now if you want Made in America, you had better be prepared to pay double the price, and smile while you're doing it. Retail companies are for-profit, consumers want the lowest price, and all the elitist folks who rag on Wal-Mart and Target better get comfortable with the idea that the poor need these places.

[Personally, I don't go to Wal-Mart b/c I feel like hepatitis is lingering on every surface, but that's just me and my classist self.]

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#97 of 115 Old 02-22-2008, 01:25 PM
 
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shopping elsewhere doesn't really make any difference if you keep buying the same crap.
amen
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#98 of 115 Old 02-22-2008, 02:06 PM
 
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I work in retail and the "MIC" brouhaha drives us nuts. Practically everything you have bought for a long time is MIC and you didn't know or care, and you got used to the prices. Now if you want Made in America, you had better be prepared to pay double the price, and smile while you're doing it. Retail companies are for-profit, consumers want the lowest price, and all the elitist folks who rag on Wal-Mart and Target better get comfortable with the idea that the poor need these places.

[Personally, I don't go to Wal-Mart b/c I feel like hepatitis is lingering on every surface, but that's just me and my classist self.]
That's the whole thing. Everything is made there, but Walmart is demonized for it, and it doesn't make any sense to me. They are just one of many. And is it any better to buy something made here using parts from China? Do we really know under what circumstances all of our products were made when we buy them?

And you're right, you can't tell people who only have a few dollars to spend to shop around when they have 1 stop shopping and a whole bunch of 99 cent items right there. I used to drive a city bus, and believe me, people who had to use public transportation and wait an hour for the next bus were not going to shop around when one bus would take them to and from Walmart. You do what you can with what you have to work with, yk? People with vehicles, money, time and more stores to choose from have more choices than people who lack those resources.

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#99 of 115 Old 02-22-2008, 04:11 PM
 
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Have any of you read Tom Sawyer? I know it seems off topic, but look at how they lived. People fixed things that broke. Kids played with a piece of string or a stick and were plenty happy. (We won't talk about the dead rat!)

Now I know people who throw out clothes because a button's missing or get a new coffee maker because the plastic is stained on the old one. And they say they "have" to shop at box stores because they can't afford to shop anywhere else. It floors me.

A few years ago there was a WalMart ad with a woman talking about how tight money was and that's why she needs WalMart—and her cart was full of stuff like decorative pillows. Do we really NEED decorative pillows? No. Somebody convinced us that society wouldn't accept us if we don't follow the corporate-induced "norms" and we "deserve" to have all this stuff.

Has having access to all this cheap stuff really improved any of our lives? If all these companies weren't out there convincing us we "need" all this stuff, we wouldn't be trying to find the best prices on it. We would simply live without it. I don't think life would be any worse, and the earth would be much happier for it.
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#100 of 115 Old 02-22-2008, 04:44 PM
 
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A few years ago there was a WalMart ad with a woman talking about how tight money was and that's why she needs WalMart—and her cart was full of stuff like decorative pillows. Do we really NEED decorative pillows? No. Somebody convinced us that society wouldn't accept us if we don't follow the corporate-induced "norms" and we "deserve" to have all this stuff.

Has having access to all this cheap stuff really improved any of our lives? If all these companies weren't out there convincing us we "need" all this stuff, we wouldn't be trying to find the best prices on it. We would simply live without it. I don't think life would be any worse, and the earth would be much happier for it.
Good point. But again, it's easier for someone with limited resources to go to one place to buy cheap (icky) food, plastic spoons to cook with, cheap pans and dishes, and cheaply made clothes than it is to go from place to place looking for good deals on quality items. Just another way convenience costs more in the long run.

And, even if you go shopping around, you still run into a lack of quality. I went to a high end store out of desperation the other day looking for a top to match a skirt my dd received as a gift. The only thing we found that fit her and matched had no hem! It was just cut off and left unhemmed with the raw edge. Granted, it was a knit fabric that wasn't going to ravel, but for $30 marked down I expect better. We're still looking for the particular style she wants in her size.: Even with choices and a car, I didn't find what I was looking for in an entire day of shopping.

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#101 of 115 Old 02-22-2008, 05:14 PM
 
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I have to agree, shopping around at "better" places doesnt always = quality products. I have had many expensive quality name things crap out on me faster than my 5 yr old sweater from walmart.
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#102 of 115 Old 02-24-2008, 02:57 AM
 
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Holy moly. I forget sometimes that mdcers can get quite sensitive and take posts so personally. So for you all, my apologies about commenting on the apparent dental hygiene of Target employees.
Honestly, relax! I don't know if it's just the local guys or what, but it's a running joke around here that Target hires the "pretty" people--college students and whatnot. The other guys tend to employ people who don't have mommy and daddy's insurance to ride on.
So again, my explanation for why people get caught up in Target as opposed to/in addition to the other big box stores--
clean, and pretty, and pretty teeth, and pretty clothes, and on some level I think it works, since people want to be pretty and have pretty things.
Whew. Good thing I don't shop there......
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#103 of 115 Old 02-24-2008, 06:19 PM
 
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But at what cost to society? Where does all that cheap stuff come from and where does it end up?

I am really shocked by all the pro-target here on a NFL board.
I enjoy Target but I'm not an impulse shopper so I have no trouble sticking to a list and only buying on sale.

But to your other point, about where it all comes from, I currently work for a company that sells some consumer goods at Target and we're always trying to either keep that business or get more ( a slot for the Christmas version of our products, for example.) Let me tell you, presenting to Target is brutal - it's all about the lowest cost. The buyers also want awesome Target-style packaging on top of that and often dictate the smallest details of that, adding to the cost. Unfortunately, due to this type of retail enviroment among most big box stores, our company will shut its US doors in a few months and I and many others will be of work. Our company's manufacturing already moved overseas several years ago. We simply cannot compete against cheap Chinese-made goods that Target, Wal-Mart and other big boxes demand. In fact, we even presented some of those same Chinese goods with our packaging and still can't get the cost low enough to compete.

It's the way it is now in the contracting retail sector. Target is a nice, clean, appealing place to shop but there is a "dark side", so to speak.
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#104 of 115 Old 03-01-2008, 04:51 AM
 
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I love Target. Just wanted to let you guys know, LOL. I am excited to get one here on the island.
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#105 of 115 Old 03-02-2008, 01:15 AM
 
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I like Target. I can stick to a list there, but it's not as much fun!

I am getting ready to student teach, and don't have much money right now. So, it's been nice to slowly build my teaching wardrobe somewhere affordable. It's not the best quality, admittedly, but I can afford it and it looks nice.

Plus, I WOH ft, and I just don't have TIME to shop thrift stores and such. I actually get quite jealous of the SAHM's here who are able to pursue things like thrift store shopping, Craigslist, Freecycle, etc. I would LOVE to be able to do that (I did before having ds) but for right now, it's all I can do to get the floor vacuumed every other week (I try to do it more often, I do, I do! ).

For the pp's who are lamenting that people with disposable income should be making different choices than Target: I tutor kids who come from VERY wealthy families, and their families do a LOT of shopping at WF and other sources that are more "MDC approved". However, they also shop places like Target, mainly because they use tp, their kids drink Coke, etc.

So, from my perspective, I DO see the higher income families shopping at more sustainable places (at least if you go by the size of the diamonds and the make of the vehicle). But you know, if I had oodles of money and tp cost $15/12-pack at WF and cost $6/12 pack at Walmart, I would probably buy my tp at Walmart/Target. YMMV.
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#106 of 115 Old 03-02-2008, 04:17 PM
 
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And, even if you go shopping around, you still run into a lack of quality. I went to a high end store out of desperation the other day looking for a top to match a skirt my dd received as a gift. The only thing we found that fit her and matched had no hem! It was just cut off and left unhemmed with the raw edge. Granted, it was a knit fabric that wasn't going to ravel, but for $30 marked down I expect better. We're still looking for the particular style she wants in her size.: Even with choices and a car, I didn't find what I was looking for in an entire day of shopping.
The no hem thing is a mark of the current style, not of lack of finishing. There's a lot of juniors stuff that are left raw, and apparently inside out even, with the seams on the outside.

But quality is not really a desired feature for a lot of people. They don't want to keep a shirt forever, just this season, if even that long. I've heard of people that don't even wash their clothes, just buy new ones once the outfit is outworn.
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#107 of 115 Old 03-02-2008, 04:37 PM
 
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The no hem thing is a mark of the current style, not of lack of finishing. There's a lot of juniors stuff that are left raw, and apparently inside out even, with the seams on the outside.

But quality is not really a desired feature for a lot of people. They don't want to keep a shirt forever, just this season, if even that long. I've heard of people that don't even wash their clothes, just buy new ones once the outfit is outworn.
As someone who learned to sew a gazillion years ago, I will never be able to see that as style. It wasn't even cut straight, but it obviously wasn't supposed to be asymmetrical either, so it was just sloppy workmanship. It was almost straight, and left unhemmed so it was really obvious that it had not been cut properly. All the other seams and the hems of the sleeves were finished. It just looked odd. If they had left the sleeve hems unfinished and cut everything the same it would have at least looked intentional.

As to the second comment, EW. I don't care how many people do something, that doesn't make it OK.

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#108 of 115 Old 03-02-2008, 04:57 PM
 
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I love Target's items, but the customer service is terrible! And I'm not even going to get started on the return policy here.
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#109 of 115 Old 03-02-2008, 07:17 PM
 
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I used to have the shock at the checkout problem at Target, but then I came up with a solution that works for me. Before I checkout, I look at what's in my cart, get out my calculator on my phone and add stuff up. I usually end up putting close to everything back. I put things back when I visualize bring the thing into the house, and where I will put it, and if I have something similar, and if it is replacing something, what will I do with the thing it is replacing?

As for MIC, I have had some good luck with Target and things not being made there. I have found a surprising number of things made in USA or europe. But it's true, stuff is mostly MIC. That's another of the factors of my putting stuff back on the shelf.

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#110 of 115 Old 03-02-2008, 10:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lanamommyphd07 View Post
It's clean, and the people working there typically have all their teeth.
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Amen!!!
eeewwww!!!!

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What an incredibly classist comment.
On soooo many levels!!
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Do they provide health insurance to their employees? That could make a difference.
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That made me cringe.
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So people with dental issues shouldn't have decent jobs? :
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Lack of dental care speaks to larger social issues, like the fact that so many low wage jobs offer either no benefits or they offer them but they are not affordable to many of the workers. More and more middle class folks also do not have access to dental care via jobs but generally are in a better position to scrape up the resources to see a dentist. Its not fair to judge folks by their teeth.

As for Target, yeah on the surface it looks better than Wal-Mart but IMO they really are not that far apart both strive to seperate you from your money buying things you often don't need. It just looks better.

Shay
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Yep. I just had 3 extractions, myself. The combination of genetically weak enamel and several years of soul-crushing, could-barely-care-for-one-person-so-I-took-care-of-DD-not-me depression has done in my teeth. Sorry I couldn't swing the thousands of dollars for implants to make YOU all more comfortable. Luckily, they were back teeth, but even if they were front teeth, I don't know that they'd be getting replaced immediately. And sorry I'm going to have to wait til my $1500 yearly maximum insurance coverage resets in 11 months to get the visible cavities in my front teeth filled.
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people need to leave the whole teeth thing go. really. just bow out and realize that you need to do some personal work on your prejudices.

my mom grew up in utter poverty (she wore out the soles of her shoes and had to go without in the WINTER) and her teeth are just plain beautiful looking. my brother grew up in middle-class insured privledge and his teeth are awful. he has no enamel and has a number of pulls to look forward, too.

using teeth as a judge of "class" or whatever you want to call it is so completely superficial and hurtful to everyone. just as making judgements based on someone's car, clothing, hair style, etc, etc, etc.

mean. mean. mean.
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I may be missing your meaning, but I have never set foot in a Pottery Barn because they are Ridiculously Expensive. I can barely afford Target. Really.

YEAH to all that and more. snark, snark. :

Sigh. I'm so sorry that I am too broke to shop at all-organic fair-trade curbside markets in the hip downtown area of my progressive city. Oh wait.... :




Yes.

sometimes it frustrates me when I realize that not only am I in the minority on these boards because of our income level, but that many of the lovely, understanding, with-it folks here just Don't Understand poverty Sorry.

FWIW I love Target, I love that I can find eclectic-style home decor there that I can actually dream of affording someday soon. I will totally buy Target stuff when I move and can afford more than just baby t-shirts on their clearance rack
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I understand you and I understand poverty. I LOVE to walk around Target and I too dream of that lovely eclectic style to furnish my dream house. For now I'll settle for pictures of my kids in dollar store frames and hand sewn pillows and handknit blankets on my couch. And the worst part, I have been shopping at evil-mart because my work gave me a baby gift of a $250 gift card!
please forgive me for bringing the teeth thing back up......just read this for the first time.

so very very sad that this statement was EVER made.

i DO enjoy my shopping experiences at target. i am VERY careful about my purchases no matter where i shop. its usually much cleaner than walmart....and yes, the lighting is better. i steer clear of the plastic toys...except the nintendo games. other than those mic is a no-no

i don't think that target sells enough that i would buy for me to be actually able to go over budget there....they don't have a crafts section,,,,and i don't eat anything but tortilla chips and condiments from their food selection.

and honestly, if i'm going to foot the bill for organic cottons, i'm going to buy them somewhere other than target.... they lose something in the translation IMO.

i am one of those moms who is lucky enough to be able to shop second hand, freecycle, and craigs list....and i do it very well. and i don't really have a need for extras

i DO lust after the books, cds, and movies...but i go to the library often enough to quench that thirst enough to just browse that section.

wow, what an amazing thread. kinda squirmy

proverbs 29:7 the righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.

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#111 of 115 Old 03-03-2008, 12:57 AM
 
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I went to target for hangers today and walked out w/just*hangers. Woohoo. And I had all four of my sons w/me. The 16yo and 11yo tried to do me in but I wouldn't let them.
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#112 of 115 Old 03-03-2008, 05:25 PM
 
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#113 of 115 Old 03-03-2008, 05:34 PM
 
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Can a newbie pop in with a question?

Have read "most" of the posts and I'm a tad confused. Maybe this is a regional thing but Target in my area is WAY over priced and we have several other options for that type of shopping. We go to ours maybe twice a year?

Is it an optimal place for most folks to shop in the East?

That being asked, for us our solution to over spending at Target is to not go.

(Dental hygeine not withstanding )
I find Target overpriced as well... but they are cheaper than the mall, so...

My children turn into gimmes when we go there. I used to be there 2-3x/ week. I am proud to say that for the entire month of Feb I went 1 day a week or less and only bought what was on my list. Kitty-litter, method cleaning items, dish detergent... I cannot stand how my children act when I go there. They typically ask/beg for nothing and when we are there it is like some consumer switch goes off in their little heads and they start yelling about Mickey and Hannah, etc, etc, etc...

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#114 of 115 Old 03-03-2008, 08:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Black Orchid View Post
I find Target overpriced as well... but they are cheaper than the mall, so...

My children turn into gimmes when we go there. I used to be there 2-3x/ week. I am proud to say that for the entire month of Feb I went 1 day a week or less and only bought what was on my list. Kitty-litter, method cleaning items, dish detergent... I cannot stand how my children act when I go there. They typically ask/beg for nothing and when we are there it is like some consumer switch goes off in their little heads and they start yelling about Mickey and Hannah, etc, etc, etc...
I go there for clearance shopping maybe once or twice a month, more often if there's something I want on clearance. Out of season stuff like fire logs(in Florida) were 75% off 2 weeks ago. Usually they mark down things on Wed evening, so we go Thursday sometime. They start out at 15%, then 30, then 50 then 75, then sometimes 90% depending. There's all sorts of things on clearance, including food and other staples. We've found dog food, wine boxes, and pomegranate juice on clearance. A lot of times it's the organic stuff, since it obviously doesn't sell well enough. But I also suspect that people buy stuff at 75% off and resell on ebay. I tried clearance shopping at walmart, but it's so disorganized and not such a great deal to quality ratio. And the only other reason to shop there for me was eliminated when they dropped their fabric section.

I have a 3yo, and she asks for things while we're there, but they never go home. I just let her push whatever buttons on the toy, and soon enough she gets sick of it.
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#115 of 115 Old 03-04-2008, 11:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SNRPMom View Post
Can a newbie pop in with a question?

Have read "most" of the posts and I'm a tad confused. Maybe this is a regional thing but Target in my area is WAY over priced and we have several other options for that type of shopping. We go to ours maybe twice a year?

Is it an optimal place for most folks to shop in the East?

That being asked, for us our solution to over spending at Target is to not go.

(Dental hygeine not withstanding )
When I lived in NY, we didn't have a Target near us (I think we had to drive to Buffalo to go to Target, so it didn't really happen, as Buffalo was about 3 hrs away from us).

But when I lived in WA state, Targets were everywhere, and in CA, too. Now that I am in the suburbs of TX, Walmarts tend to dominate, but like a PP said, Target often comes in after Walmart does (never thought of that....but I know there is a Target being built near us and a WM has been there for a while now. I'm really excited, 'cause that WM SUCKS. Dirty, unorganized, just icky).

So, it's possible that Target doesn't have as big a presence in the NE. I dunno....
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