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#241 of 260 Old 09-18-2008, 02:03 AM
 
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yaay! I love this thread! Has anyone done anything to become less energy dependent?

Ami

Wife to dh, Mommy to my heavenly angel, J (06), and my earthly angels, S (07) and E (10)

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#242 of 260 Old 09-18-2008, 09:50 AM
 
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I finally got this book a while back and devoured it in a day. Then I read "World Made By Hand" and really got a vision of things. I'm not feeling panic about it. I can accept that we will probably see the end of oil in my lifetime, especially if the world keeps at the pace it is. I am not doing anything differently, but then we've always had a well supplied food storage (although I'm now trying harder to buy as much locally as possible), we've always lived frugally/being wise with our resources. It has made me want to learn new skills. Having always been apartment dwellers, there are things that we do not know how to do. I'm becoming more aware of what is produced in my area and trying to support local buisnesses and farmers to cut down on miles and support our local economy. Reducing & reusing are things we should be doing anyway but if everyone were more careful with our resources, it wouldn't be a hard transition when we have to made the move away from oil dependence.

(sorry if this sounds disjointed from the LE, but it has been a couple months since I read LE and a couple weeks since I read WMBY, which stuck in my mind)
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#243 of 260 Old 09-18-2008, 01:20 PM
 
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We have sold our home and live closer to family , have land to grow food , water source thats non electric, and have a hand washer set up. We have also stockpiled food for this winter
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#244 of 260 Old 09-18-2008, 06:30 PM
 
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So, by reading here, the idea I get is that most people plan on buying some land and trying to liver closer to family, working on animal husbandry, farming techniques. Is this the general consensus as to what the safest bets are? I did read The Long Emergency but have since loaned it out and can't reference my book, but I remember the author talking about rural areas being hit pretty hard since it takes more gas to get the goods out there.

But then I just read on some other peak oil website that arable land just outside the city is going to soar in price as early as 2010. Within the next couple of years, my husband and I will be in the position to buy a small parcel of land (under 2 acres) in an area where we are expecting his parents to relocate for retirement. This area is an area that we would be happy to live in at some point in the future (10 yrs) after we do some extended (simple, self-sufficient) traveling and living on a sailboat.

So, my long-winded questions is, I guess, should we do it? I mean, on the one hand-if we don't buy now, maybe in 10 years we won't able to afford anything (since we will be out of the real estate market for so long). And what if we can't afford to even build on this lot? Maybe we'd be better off buying a house and renting it out? Or doing nothing but investing in safer (safest??)(low risk) investments and hoping we can still dip in later?

I hope I get some answers from this because I didn't want to start a whole new thread

Thanks for reading my long-winded post!

Living Simply and Enjoying Life
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#245 of 260 Old 09-18-2008, 08:20 PM
 
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isk) investments and hoping we can still dip in later?

I hope I get some answers from this because I didn't want to start a whole new thread

Thanks for reading my long-winded post!
We didn't buy property. Though plan to hopefully. I'm happy with renting a place with land so that we can leave at a moments notice without strings attached. We found a Landlord that told us that the lease was just for his protection and if we didn't like living there that we were free to go...out in the boonies they are a little more relaxed

If we do buy we might try land contract or the like where we live so we dont go through a bank

I think though that its safe to say that finding a place ( even in the city ) that you can grow your own food and be close to family or friends is important in case of emergency....
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#246 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 01:16 AM
 
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One thing I keep on thinking while reading through this thread -- I'm hearing people talk about emergency preparation. It's always good to be prepared for emergencies. But the concept of peak oil and the long emergency isn't a single apocalyptic event. It's a slow deflation of economic systems. If it did happen, it wouldn't be overnight, it would be over the course of decades. That's why I'm not interested in things like stockpiling food now, or investing in a lifetime supply of propane.
It does make me interested in investing in property that I could own free and clear without a mortgage. The town we're moving to is actually a place where I would feel comfortable if I knew we were headed to TLE -- it's a walkable city, a decent size but not a huge metro area, surrounded by arable land.

Jen, journalist, policy wonk, and formerly a proud single mama to my sweet little man Cyrus, born at home Dec. 2007 . Now married to my Incredibly Nice Guy and new mama to baby Arthur.
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#247 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 09:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by *MamaJen* View Post
One thing I keep on thinking while reading through this thread -- I'm hearing people talk about emergency preparation. It's always good to be prepared for emergencies. But the concept of peak oil and the long emergency isn't a single apocalyptic event. It's a slow deflation of economic systems. If it did happen, it wouldn't be overnight, it would be over the course of decades. That's why I'm not interested in things like stockpiling food now, or investing in a lifetime supply of propane.
It does make me interested in investing in property that I could own free and clear without a mortgage. The town we're moving to is actually a place where I would feel comfortable if I knew we were headed to TLE -- it's a walkable city, a decent size but not a huge metro area, surrounded by arable land.
Yes, this is what I was aiming for too! I'm not stockpiling so much as thinking about what kind of direction I want our family to go in for TLE. We are exploring options as to what state, land or house, etc. A walkable community would be a bonus but I have found so little in the Southeast. We will have the option to own a property out right (as long as its under 100k) in a couple of years and am exploring options right now. The caveat about that though is we won't be able to live in it for 8 years or so unless its located near the base where my husbands works (or where he will be stationed ADAF).

I think being mortgage free is going to be huge for us being prepared and sustainable in the TLE. The mortgage is what eats up most of each family's monthly income. If that were free, you could survive on much less income. My dh will have a small pension from the service and I have a smaller disability income that we would get monthly to sustain us in times of economy failure. (that is assuming of course the govt doesn't completely go belly under and not pay out its veterans pensions!-but I think that is a long shot though )

Right now I am toying with the conundrum of buying land (5-6acres) (in the next 2 years)(for dirt cheap-but out in the country) and building a small, sustainable (less than 1000 sq ft) home on it ( in 4-5 years). I am thinking solar panels, rain catchment, garden, etc. This would be still setting ourselves up for reliance on gas, at least for automobiles into town, doctor, etc.

However, this may end up being more expensive than buying an older smaller home in a walkable old town that has a tiny lot but that can be used to do some small scale gardening. Plus the older community is walkable but more expensive (in terms of land). Plus we would have to fix up this old shack (because that's all we'd be able to afford) and that would eat up capital too.
Then we would have to possibly rent this tiny old shack out to god knows who in the stretch of time till we retire (from the service). :

So that's where we are today. I do tons of research whenever I can and am still left with these two possibilities.

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#248 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 10:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by *MamaJen* View Post
One thing I keep on thinking while reading through this thread -- I'm hearing people talk about emergency preparation. It's always good to be prepared for emergencies. But the concept of peak oil and the long emergency isn't a single apocalyptic event. It's a slow deflation of economic systems. If it did happen, it wouldn't be overnight, it would be over the course of decades. That's why I'm not interested in things like stockpiling food now, or investing in a lifetime supply of propane.
It does make me interested in investing in property that I could own free and clear without a mortgage. The town we're moving to is actually a place where I would feel comfortable if I knew we were headed to TLE -- it's a walkable city, a decent size but not a huge metro area, surrounded by arable land.
Good points!

I think emergency preparation goes well with the changes that may be coming our way. For example:
- having stores of food available for when the stores may be low
- having water stockpiled for temporary problems with a well or city water system
- knowing how to preserve what is in season
- being able to prepare meals in a low-energy situation (whether due to energy prices or a power outage)
- being able to grow your own food, esp without modern chemical assistance
- make or mend clothing, make soap, make candles
- working with those around you, whether through bartering or helping one another out

Bridget. Momma to DD (4), expecting DS - 9/09, wife to SAHD. Gardener, coffee addict, urban dweller.
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#249 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 10:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by *MamaJen* View Post
One thing I keep on thinking while reading through this thread -- I'm hearing people talk about emergency preparation. It's always good to be prepared for emergencies. But the concept of peak oil and the long emergency isn't a single apocalyptic event. It's a slow deflation of economic systems. If it did happen, it wouldn't be overnight, it would be over the course of decades. That's why I'm not interested in things like stockpiling food now, or investing in a lifetime supply of propane.
It does make me interested in investing in property that I could own free and clear without a mortgage. The town we're moving to is actually a place where I would feel comfortable if I knew we were headed to TLE -- it's a walkable city, a decent size but not a huge metro area, surrounded by arable land.
Good points!

I think emergency preparation goes well with the changes that may be coming our way. For example:
- having stores of food available for when the stores may be low
- having water stockpiled for temporary problems with a well or city water system
- knowing how to preserve what is in season
- being able to prepare meals in a low-energy situation (whether due to energy prices or a power outage)
- being able to grow your own food, esp without modern chemical assistance
- make or mend clothing, make soap, make candles
- working with those around you, whether through bartering or helping one another out

Buying 5 buckets of food rations at Costco isn't going to cut it, though.

Bridget. Momma to DD (4), expecting DS - 9/09, wife to SAHD. Gardener, coffee addict, urban dweller.
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#250 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 12:19 PM
 
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Good points!

I think emergency preparation goes well with the changes that may be coming our way. For example:
- having stores of food available for when the stores may be low
- having water stockpiled for temporary problems with a well or city water system
- knowing how to preserve what is in season
- being able to prepare meals in a low-energy situation (whether due to energy prices or a power outage)
- being able to grow your own food, esp without modern chemical assistance
- make or mend clothing, make soap, make candles
- working with those around you, whether through bartering or helping one another out

Buying 5 buckets of food rations at Costco isn't going to cut it, though.
I think it's interesting and very astute that five of the seven things you mention involve amassing knowledge rather than stuff. It's the whole "Teach a mama to fish" concept -- learning to provide for your family if costco no longer exists.
I love that DP is very handy and capable. He's sort of a country boy and has a lot of firsthand experience with things like livestock and building. I'd ride out the apocalypse with him any day.
But seriously, I don't know if the long emergency is likely, but I do think it's within the realm of possibility. I'm not going to start stockpiling food, but I do like the idea of casually building up a body of knowledge.

Jen, journalist, policy wonk, and formerly a proud single mama to my sweet little man Cyrus, born at home Dec. 2007 . Now married to my Incredibly Nice Guy and new mama to baby Arthur.
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#251 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 12:48 PM
 
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. . .
It does make me interested in investing in property that I could own free and clear without a mortgage.
This has been my #1 priority. We have put our mortgaged house on the market and have moved in with my mother. The sooner our house sells the quicker we can save nearly $2000/month toward buying someplace free and clear.

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I'm not going to start stockpiling food, but I do like the idea of casually building up a body of knowledge.
I no longer feel guilty buying a book if it is a low-tech how-to book. I do keep a food storage, but I always have so that's not related to peak-oil.
When we do get settled in our debt free location I will probably stock up on some things like screws, quality tools, a few bolts of fabric, and zip ties (or any plastic item that can make life immeasurably easier).

~laura
and planning to eat it again
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#252 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 12:50 PM
 
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..amassing knowledge rather than stuff. It's the whole "Teach a mama to fish" concept -- learning to provide for your family if costco no longer exists.
Yep! Sometimes I feellike I've got a "Long Emergency Hobby." I've always been kind of crafty - knitting, soapmaking, candlemaking - and also frugal and environmentally aware. Now I've directed it a little more toward food. Where DH and I are lacking is the home improvement area.

Bridget. Momma to DD (4), expecting DS - 9/09, wife to SAHD. Gardener, coffee addict, urban dweller.
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#253 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 01:29 PM
 
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Yep! Sometimes I feellike I've got a "Long Emergency Hobby." I've always been kind of crafty - knitting, soapmaking, candlemaking - and also frugal and environmentally aware. Now I've directed it a little more toward food. Where DH and I are lacking is the home improvement area.
Wow! I FINALLY got through all 13 pages! :

One thing you and your dh can do is barter. For example, you can trade your homemade sweaters, soap, and candles to your handy neighbor, who can fix the leak in your roof.

To all of you: the best thing you can do in a LE situation is to get to know your neighbors. Find out each others' strengths and weaknesses, and then you can trade goods and services back and forth. You can't do it all.

For instance, I'm great with growing a garden, cooking, and canning. I've had a garden for most of my 53 years. But I can't sew to save my life. That's going to be my next task--learn how to sew! I've always wanted to, but never had the time. I'm also thinking of quitting my job and being a full-time homemaker again. Then I'll have the time to teach myself about herbs, making soap, and sewing. The trouble is, what if my dh loses his job? I took this job so that I'd have a way to support myself if something happened to him. It's my security blanket, so to speak. My kids are grown, so I'm not worried about them.
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#254 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 04:43 PM
 
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Yeah, I'm hoping my knitting will come in handy should there be a long emergency... the problem would then be finding yarn...

Jenna ~ mommy to Sophia Elise idea.gif  (1/06), Oliver Matthew  blahblah.gif (7/07) and Avery Michael fly-by-nursing1.gif(3/10)

 

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#255 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 04:45 PM
 
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I think it's interesting and very astute that five of the seven things you mention involve amassing knowledge rather than stuff. It's the whole "Teach a mama to fish" concept -- learning to provide for your family if costco no longer exists.
Exactly!

We stockpile food for winter. Dry or canned food. In case of an emergency we have food that doesn't spoil easy. Having just gone through a hurricane in OHIO : I was vary happy to not have allot in the fridge and allot of fresh, canned and dried foods.
I'm going to work on having more water on hand and my parents are putting in a hand pump so if there isn't electric they can get water. This was the biggest issue for the area when the power went out. Ice , drinking water and toilet flush water.

Books about how to take care of your land and animals and Basic trades etc. are so valuable!

I don't think most would think they could stock pile for 10 years. but to have 3 months+ food on hand that can get you through a long winter and back into the growing season is really a must have and a few generations ago was life or death.
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#256 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 05:59 PM
 
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I don't think most would think they could stock pile for 10 years. but to have 3 months+ food on hand that can get you through a long winter and back into the growing season is really a must have and a few generations ago was life or death.
This exactly This is what I am building toward. I usually have a month or so worth of groceries on hand, but a scary amount of those are fridge/freezer items or need fridge/freezer items to complete them. {such as mac & cheese, pasta helper etc} And we have MREs but I'm almost afraid to see what all those preservatives would do to the kids behavior {not that that will be a priority but still}
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#257 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 06:59 PM
 
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Yeah, I'm hoping my knitting will come in handy should there be a long emergency... the problem would then be finding yarn...
Nah, I'm pretty sure there are lots of us already planning on some sheep or alpaca as part of our prep.

There will be yarn in TLE!
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#258 of 260 Old 09-19-2008, 11:27 PM
 
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I gotta get me some sheeps... or at least a spinning wheel and a friend w/sheeps

Jenna ~ mommy to Sophia Elise idea.gif  (1/06), Oliver Matthew  blahblah.gif (7/07) and Avery Michael fly-by-nursing1.gif(3/10)

 

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#259 of 260 Old 09-20-2008, 12:32 AM
 
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Ya know, we started "furminating" the cats - using a Furminator(tm) to get hair off of them. And I half jokingly said there was enough from one our cats to make socks. I don't know how desperate I would be to make cat yarn, but I don't know that yarn has to be limited to sheep or goats.

Bridget. Momma to DD (4), expecting DS - 9/09, wife to SAHD. Gardener, coffee addict, urban dweller.
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#260 of 260 Old 09-20-2008, 10:35 PM
 
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whew! It took me three days but I finally read this whole string!

I just picked up this book at the library and will start it tonight. I've been learning about sustainable lifestyles for a few years now but I am feeling more anxious of late because of the crazy stuff that's been going on with the market the past week.

I'm buying a pressure canner and Foodsaver vaccuum sealer and I just bought a book on food preservation.

We just bought our house but it was dirt cheap because my mom sold it to us for what little was left on the morgage and gifted us the substantial equity. I don't really want to live here for the long haul since it's in town and I'd much rather have more land to keep some livestock like goats and alpaca. We're hoping to sell this place in 3-4 years and use the $$ to get our dream land or move to an intentional community.

It's tough knowing whether or not to stay in Alaska. One the one hand there is soo much wilderness that hunting and fishing for a substantial amount of our diet is totally feasible. On the other hand the winters are wicked brutal and dark. Very few people here but a lot of those are frighteninly militiant and gun happy so I wonder about the propensity to violence if lawlessness became the norm. Then again, most people are very aware of how harsh this land can be and are willing to step up and help eachother out because of it.

I feel very conflicted about whether to stay here or try to head south.

~Stephanie )O(

DS- 07/01 & DD- 09/05 & DD- 12/07 & DS- 10/13

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