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#61 of 113 Old 09-12-2008, 06:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Selesai View Post
Well, quite honestly, you know that public education is "free" and you choose to do something different, for whatever reason. It's a choice.



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and you do understand public education ISN'T free. we all pay for it with our taxes?

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#62 of 113 Old 09-12-2008, 06:51 PM
 
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and you do understand public education ISN'T free. we all pay for it with our taxes?
Yes but you are making the choice not to use the services that are being provided. No one else is being given any more opportunity than you children are. I completely understand your choice not to use the public schools, but that is beside the point.

It would be nice if there was a perfect system where everyone wins...but I think this is what we are stuck with for now.
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#63 of 113 Old 09-12-2008, 07:10 PM
 
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It does make me wonder how schools become segregated when they are public. How does this occur? Is it when the first group of kids from other neighborhoods enter the school? I've seen this occur and it bothers me to no end. Yes, they are bussing in kids from other neighborhoods because the parents in the neighborhood have chosen to send their children elsewhere and flee the public school system. If the parents in the neighborhood would support the local schools, send their kids there and work together for changes, then maybe things would improve. There are kids bussed into our local middle school ( only the middle school, not the elementary or high school) because it is one of the few middle schools not filled to capacity in the area. These kids are on the bus at least forty five minutes and pass three other at -capacity schools on the way. Why? Because this particular school has gotten a bad reputation so everyone jockeys to send their kids elsewhere. Now these kids do have a middle school that isn't full nearer to their homes. It is a magnet school which means their parents need to choose for them to attend. So if they don't choose, off on the bus they go. That is what I don't understand- they could be getting a good education nearer to home, but if the parents can't be bothered it isn't going to happen. Involved parents are the key.
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#64 of 113 Old 09-12-2008, 07:20 PM
 
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In Alberta? What do you receive per student?

Alberta is very wealthy due to its natural resources, for those who don't know. They are the only province without provincial sales tax.
Yeah, we have money. I'd like to know why public schoolkids have to pay ANYthing. I just forked over $215 in fees for my grade 12 son.

Each student receives $636.00 per year for the purchase of education resources. And it can be carried over. The board I'm with asks for receipts that get reimbursed. From what I can tell so far (I've only been homeschooling my daughter since April so haven't actually gotten anything yet) they're pretty flexible with what they term a 'resource'

I also don't know if all boards forward the money they receive to the students. I do know each board receives a certain amount per student which I believe is twice what I get as a parent, so $1272.00. Other school boards may keep all of it, I don't know.
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#65 of 113 Old 09-12-2008, 07:24 PM
 
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I am in Alberta as well, and have looked into homeschooling (although it is a ways off for my little one!). How much funding you get is dependent on the organization you go through. Some boards provide more in the area of curriculum, so you get less direct funding... others are less structured, so you get more funding. All of it is supposed to be reimbursed for the purchase of educational support items... be it purchasing a curriculum, supplies, books, feild trips, etc.

I think it is a good system.

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#66 of 113 Old 09-12-2008, 09:50 PM
 
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My mom is the bookeeper at a public high school and one of the things she is in charge of is collecting for all of the various student related fees. Just yesterday dd and I decided to pay her a visit. While I was sitting in her office a young man came up to the window with a check. he said his parents wrote a check to cover his latest fees and costs. it was a $110 check. It was divided up among, science class supplies, band equiptment, honor society fees, another club fee, spanish book fee (they have to pay for the class required books), asb fee, and annual fee. To add, none of the above fees can be waived due to financial hardship and there is no payment plan or cost scale based on household income. One price and deadline fro everyone. Sure, you could just not buy your child a yearbook, enroll them in any sports, activities, foreign language, etc BUT, you're still stuck with the fees for graduation required classes, the asb fee, and any fees that go along with ALL elective classes (in most school a certain number of elective classes are also required in order to graduate).

And that $110 was just the amount to get the year started. Next trimester he'll have more and 3rd trimester he'll have more... and then if he turns out for any sports on top of that a ton more money. I wonder how expensive it's gonna be when my kiddos are in high school!

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#67 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 12:15 AM
 
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I don't agree with vouchers--- the government should not be funding religious education.

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#68 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 12:56 AM
 
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We are paying almost $2000 for public kindergarten (not extended day, just to go to fullday vs. half day). Plus $$ for club (cooking and art) fees, supplies, Weekly Reader subscription and the $110 I have already spent with the PTA on fundraisers.

There are thankfully scholarships and parent volunteer fee waivers for the clubs and activities, the supplies are pooled so those that can't bring them don't go without and the pay for K fee is automatically waived for all families getting free or reduced lunch. It's a lot for public school, but after touring every private and public school in our area I feel strongly that I want my son at a diverse public school. It's not perfect but the PTA does raise a lot of money to augment the quality of the education and the teacher is amazing.

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#69 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 01:05 AM
 
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We are paying almost $2000 for public kindergarten (not extended day, just to go to fullday vs. half day). Plus $$ for club (cooking and art) fees, supplies, Weekly Reader subscription and the $110 I have already spent with the PTA on fundraisers.
What is Weekly Reader subscription?
What kind of fundraisers? When did you start school?
I have not gotten anything home for fundraising.......yet.
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#70 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 01:12 AM
 
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The issue with vouchers is that they won't even out what people can pay on top of the voucher. The fact of the matter is that there are not currently enough spaces at the good private and good public schools to handle all of the kids whose families would like to send them- we need better schools, more schools that people want to attend. Say I can pay about $10,000 a year for my kid's education. Everyone gets a $10,000 voucher. Suddenly, I can pay $20,000 to buy my way into the best school. But the kid whose parent ONLY has the $10,000 still only has the $10,000 voucher- and the price of the schools that cost $10,000 before the voucher is now out of reach. It is a demand side subsidy that is strangely primarily supported by supply siders. I am totally opposed to vouchers. I am happy that private schools offer scholarships (if we attended a private school, I'd donate and fund raise heavily for scholarships) and I think perhaps some limited vouchers could be used to get kids out of truly awful schooling situations faster than the schools can be fixed but a voucher for everyone, pay at every school would be just as inequitable as what we have now.

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#71 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 01:20 AM
 
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What is Weekly Reader subscription?
What kind of fundraisers? When did you start school?
I have not gotten anything home for fundraising.......yet.
The subscription is for a little magazine for early readers. It's part of the homework. It is paid for by the PTA for families that can't afford it. I think it was $10?

Only been in school for a week and a half! But I bought their little shirt for my son and a couple of coupon books and some pizza vouchers. i bought all this at the open house and BBQ before school started. I will make a donation later for the auction and annual fund. I figure if we have it and it helps the whole school, I will do it. There are a lot of parents at the school that can't make such donations or pay for fees so I figure my $$ makes it easier for the students from homes without extra $ for supplies and fees. I grew up dirt poor, so it's important to me to help where I can.

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#72 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 01:28 AM
 
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The subscription is for a little magazine for early readers. It's part of the homework. It is paid for by the PTA for families that can't afford it. I think it was $10?
Oh, ok. I thought that is what it was. We get that, but do not pay for it.
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#73 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 02:31 AM
 
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You mean the homeschoolers whose children are still eligible for services such as speech therapy, physical therapy and occupational therapy through their local school district even though their children are not enrolled in school in the district?
Here in Maryland, homeschoolers are not eligible for those services.

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#74 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 02:34 AM
 
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I don't agree with vouchers--- the government should not be funding religious education.
But that's just it- the government gets the money from US, the tax payers. I say give us, the parents, the vouchers and let us choose where to send our children.

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#75 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 02:41 AM
 
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Right there with you $108 just for volleyball(practice shorts and t-shirt;knee pads;uniform; sweats). $11 for aerospace(model rocket engines and glue stick(x100). $56 for laptop, locker and student planner, $10 for school slingpak to carry all day. Haven't purchased canvass for art yet, but will tomorrow. Not to mention all the little extras that the other teaches needed her to have! OooHH like we just have all the money in the world to spend on 7th grade! Like they couldn't have given us a school supplies list when everyone was having sales!!!
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#76 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 05:10 PM
 
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Here in Maryland, homeschoolers are not eligible for those services.
Actually, the state is required to provide them to you by federal law as a part of an appropriate education. So you are eligible for them, although they may not be provided to you or made easy to access.

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The issue with vouchers is that they won't even out what people can pay on top of the voucher. The fact of the matter is that there are not currently enough spaces at the good private and good public schools to handle all of the kids whose families would like to send them- we need better schools, more schools that people want to attend. Say I can pay about $10,000 a year for my kid's education. Everyone gets a $10,000 voucher. Suddenly, I can pay $20,000 to buy my way into the best school. But the kid whose parent ONLY has the $10,000 still only has the $10,000 voucher- and the price of the schools that cost $10,000 before the voucher is now out of reach. It is a demand side subsidy that is strangely primarily supported by supply siders. I am totally opposed to vouchers. I am happy that private schools offer scholarships (if we attended a private school, I'd donate and fund raise heavily for scholarships) and I think perhaps some limited vouchers could be used to get kids out of truly awful schooling situations faster than the schools can be fixed but a voucher for everyone, pay at every school would be just as inequitable as what we have now.
Which doesn't even begin to take into account that the better schools will raise their prices to accomodate the influx of voucher funding, so a school that used to charge $5000 can now charge $15000 because of the $10000 school voucher -- a neat way to control enrollment, since price alone wouldn't do it anymore.

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#77 of 113 Old 09-13-2008, 05:32 PM
 
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But that's just it- the government gets the money from US, the tax payers. I say give us, the parents, the vouchers and let us choose where to send our children.
Exactly! The "government" has no money. It is our money that they are redistributing. I find it disturbing that our money is confiscated and then used to fund government schools that have a monopoly on the education of our youth. It is not the hallmark of democracy to have government control what is taught to the masses, it is a hallmark of communism.
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#78 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 03:36 AM
 
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i have been reading this thread with great interest, but i have hesitated to post here. i think i'm going to try to get this out though.

i have 3 kids in public school. k, 1st, and 4th grades. we qualify for free lunch and breakfast programs at the school. however, they do not have any sort of fee waiver for ANY other programs, including... $81 enrollment fees, over $150 of required school supplies, $45 per year for milk at snack for 2 of my kids, $10 per kid "field trip fees" that is supposed to cover the years trips but never seems to, $5 per kid for an assignment notebook required by the school, and $10 per kid for "extra classroom supplies" such as art project materials. except for the milk money, these are all pretty much mandatory fees. our income this month? $0. for the last 6 months? $0. i see a bit of a problem with this. let's not forget the $15 or so for gym shoes for each kid that are required to be left at school. or the $25 a month for cello rental that my 4th grader is in tears about on a daily basis b/c i keep having to tell him we just can't do it.

i'm not expecting the government to pay for absolutely everything, nor the teachers. for that matter, not the tax payers. but doesn't it seem that there should be a better system for schooling in the country? the "no child left behind" act was a joke, as far as i can see. because my kids are sure as heck going to get left behind if something doesn't change.

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#79 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 04:13 AM
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I actually have used my fire dept. more than once. (Try like 5 times, I'm always calling them it seems! and the sheriff) you may not feel it's a penalty, but I (and others) DO. Especially when my childrens whole education (minus the library) will be paid out of pocket and by me (A single mom) with no tax breaks or assistance. yes I do think it's unfair.
So you are using more than your fair share of the fire department and sheriff resources. You should get another job and pay for the additional burden you cause on the system. Oh wait, that is why we pay taxes and have the government manage the "public good" resources. Being able to call the fire or police department or <wait for it> send our kids to schools when needed is part of our social contract.

I highly doubt you have been to a country where parents have to pay for school because it is all privatized. I have. I wouldn't trade our school system for that system ever. It just reinforces a caste system that is against supposed American ideals.
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#80 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 10:39 AM
 
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Wow this is just crazy. I work for a public school, a pretty poor rural one at that and I know for a fact that they do not charge fees like that, at least in elementary. There are school supplies to get but we also did a back to school fair where you could receive a new backpack full of the right supplies you needed for your grade. Planners are passed out for free on the first day, there are no textbook fees, no enrollment fees, no field trip fees beyond packing your kid a lunch and heck, the kitchen will pack up a box of extras for those kids who do not bring one(PTO pays for field trips). I'm sure there are fees in the high school but still not all that some other schools are asking for. This area is a low income area, there is no way they could get by asking parents to pay.

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#81 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 10:49 AM
 
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So you are using more than your fair share of the fire department and sheriff resources. You should get another job and pay for the additional burden you cause on the system. Oh wait, that is why we pay taxes and have the government manage the "public good" resources. Being able to call the fire or police department or <wait for it> send our kids to schools when needed is part of our social contract.

I highly doubt you have been to a country where parents have to pay for school because it is all privatized. I have. I wouldn't trade our school system for that system ever. It just reinforces a caste system that is against supposed American ideals.
yes but the systems that are in place that keep the fire dept and sheriff going and providing services are not broken. The PUBLIC SCHOOL system is beyond a shadow of a doubt BROKEN!

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#82 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 01:21 PM
 
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I feel just fine about my public school system. The one here for my kids, and the one I taught in for 6 years. Yes, obviously, not all public schools are high quality. Reform is definitely needed! But I don't see why that means the whole thing, which works well for millions of people, needs to be scrapped.

I was surprised, however, to find out about the beginning of the year fees. I had never heard of them until dd2 started attending. (She went first. Special ed.)

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#83 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 01:28 PM
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yes but the systems that are in place that keep the fire dept and sheriff going and providing services are not broken. The PUBLIC SCHOOL system is beyond a shadow of a doubt BROKEN!
See, I disagree with this premise. There are areas where the public school system is ineffectual but the vast majority of kids come out of the public school system knowing how to read and write. It has its failures as any large system does but so does the police and fire system. For the large majority of the population, the public school system does a fine job of educating. Try spending time in a country without public schools. The idea of no more public schools is frightening.
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#84 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 01:41 PM
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To the OP - when I was in high school (15 years ago), we had fees like that too. Now that I look back, it seems crazy what kind of fees my dad had to pay. I was in an affluent suburban school. My DH who grew up in-city didn't have to pay those fees but didn't participate in a lot of stuff. I can tell you his prom was cheaper.

I wonder if the suburban model of making your child participate in every activity so they don't miss enrichment opportunities has caused a ripple effect of fees.

If you think that is crazy, when I moved here I found out about mums. The kids (both boys and girls) here spend a couple of hundred dollars on a decorated flowers for homecoming. They are the hugest things I've ever seen.

Here's an example:
http://www.royales.org/images/2005mumsale.jpg
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#85 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 01:54 PM
 
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I am really surprised to hear the upset over what seem (to me) to be very minor fees. Do schooling parents really expect to shoulder none of the expenses of educating their child?

Local school districts care for children all day on the taxpayers dime. This is nothing less than educational welfare. Parents are able to work while they take advantage of what is essentially free daycare. And yes, I know that we all pay taxes to cover the costs of public school, but those taxes would be paid regardless of whether one sent their children to public school or not.

Parents should really expect to cover none of the costs?

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#86 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 02:52 PM
 
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That's the biggest waste of money I've ever heard of. I've never seen those before. Why do they cost so much? Where is LaLa Land??

ETA: Ah. Texas.

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#87 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 03:12 PM
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That's the biggest waste of money I've ever heard of. I've never seen those before. Why do they cost so much? Where is LaLa Land??

ETA: Ah. Texas.
La La Land is in my own head but I am currently in Texas.

They cost so much because they are a teenager's way of displaying their parents' affluence. They are a status symbol. The moms of the teens usually get a small mum too, like a mother of the bride thing, except for homecoming. I moved here from the PNW after DD was born and had never heard of them before either. I thought my friend was joking when she told me about them.
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#88 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 03:46 PM
 
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I find the whole discussion interesting. I have a lot of opinions but just some food for thought. At least in my area this is true. Nothing about how public schools are funded or utilized is fair. Schools are not funded by "taxes" in the generic. They are funded by property taxes where I live. If you rent, your land lord is paying your share, not you. So should the double income no kids home owner not pay school taxes and the single mom keeping her head above water in subsidized housing now have to pay her share or the family where the father just lost his job? That would be ridiculous. Why would we want to burden those families any more? I rented for many years while my guys were in school so we were essentially getting a free education. We now pay property taxes.
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#89 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 03:55 PM
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I find the whole discussion interesting. I have a lot of opinions but just some food for thought. At least in my area this is true. Nothing about how public schools are funded or utilized is fair. Schools are not funded by "taxes" in the generic. They are funded by property taxes where I live. If you rent, your land lord is paying your share, not you. So should the double income no kids home owner not pay school taxes and the single mom keeping her head above water in subsidized housing now have to pay her share or the family where the father just lost his job? That would be ridiculous. Why would we want to burden those families any more? I rented for many years while my guys were in school so we were essentially getting a free education. We now pay property taxes.
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#90 of 113 Old 09-14-2008, 03:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 34me View Post
I find the whole discussion interesting. I have a lot of opinions but just some food for thought. At least in my area this is true. Nothing about how public schools are funded or utilized is fair. Schools are not funded by "taxes" in the generic. They are funded by property taxes where I live. If you rent, your land lord is paying your share, not you. So should the double income no kids home owner not pay school taxes and the single mom keeping her head above water in subsidized housing now have to pay her share or the family where the father just lost his job? That would be ridiculous. Why would we want to burden those families any more? I rented for many years while my guys were in school so we were essentially getting a free education. We now pay property taxes.
The thing about that is while the landlord is the one responsible for paying the taxes on the home, the renter is the one who actually pays it. He makes the money back in the rent he (or she) charges the tenants. So really, it's not a fair argument.

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