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#1 of 52 Old 10-01-2008, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#2 of 52 Old 10-01-2008, 02:55 PM
 
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I just wanted to send u a hug and tell you that you are a saint! I would not be able to live like that. Your hubby is modeling unacceptable behaviour to your kiddos and it is not healthy and not ok. And it is NOT normal to have a man who pees in a bottle. I would wack my hubby with the cast iron pan over the head if he would do that! If he thinks that is ok then honestly he has BIG issues and problems and thinks that you are a maid not a wife. Wrong because I doubt that he would leave pee in a bottle in a hotel for someone else to pick up. That is just no respect and bordering on abusive. In fact the whole criticizing you on parenting. OMG seriously I want to go whack him with my iron pan for you. I don't have much wisdom other than to tell you that it seems like he has major screwed up thinking going on and I would get you two into marriage counseling so someone neutral could show him "the light" ! All you describe is totally unacceptable. Of course you are overwhelmed. HUGS!!! I hope someone can give you turnaround suggestions. I say go to marriage counseling.
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#3 of 52 Old 10-01-2008, 03:12 PM
 
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that sounds really awful. not any of the specific mess things (although the pee bottles would be a bit much for anyone to handle!) - it's the complete disrespect for your feelings, your time, and your contribution to the family. let's review the situation, because it sounds like maybe things were more balanced at some point, and it's time to reassess.

there is no at-home parent and no woh parent in your family. you both work and both care for the kids. that means you need to both be doing the housework. no ifs, ands or buts about it.

there are the wash-rinse-repeat chores, like dishes and laundry and tidying up, that must be done by the person who is home (and the 7yo). even if it's him, it just has to happen! and doing a load of laundry each day will prevent stink, right? daily/weekly chores like sweeping, dusting, shopping, outdoor mtc, etc need to be assigned to a person and done by that person on a regular schedule.

putting everything in black-and-white (who does what, when) has helped us a lot in the past. i am *not* a good housekeeper, neither is dh, and i definitely feel like you that i do way more than my share - but some times in our marriage have been more balanced (and tidier) than others.

if your dh really believes you need to do all the housework, then he needs to be the one picking up an extra 20 hours a week to allow you to truly be home full time . . . and he still can't be a piggy pig about it. under no circumstances - not even with a paid cleaning service - is it acceptable to leave trash, food, pee bottles or poopy dipes lying around.

(((hugs))) on the criticism of your parenting, your stress level, and the turn-off factor (which is also relate to! completely!). it sounds like some rebuilding of your own happiness and your relationship is in order too. it's just so hard to see which comes first, because it's hard to improve how you feel about yourself and your partner when your home is in disarray, and vice versa! dive into one, and maybe the other will get improved a bit too in the process.
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#4 of 52 Old 10-01-2008, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#5 of 52 Old 10-01-2008, 04:36 PM
 
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I'd say there is way more going on here that simple slovenly behavior. I'm guessing that there is a serious mental illness happening.

Go get counseling for yourself if he won't go.

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#6 of 52 Old 10-01-2008, 04:46 PM
 
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I agree with the counseling. He's beyond anything resembling normal behavior. The bottled pee thing. OMG.
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#7 of 52 Old 10-01-2008, 08:51 PM
 
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you guys are a family, everyone needs to take care of home, whether they work out of the home or in the home or whether they are male of female, it's about everyone having equal intrinsic worth and that the home is a shared space, it is an environment that all members are responsible for, and all members are also responsible for the children in the environment. It's important that everyone be valued equal to have equal self time too, and there are jobs within the home that are about being "responsible" which is cleaning up after self and all evidence of self mess. Then there are jobs about being "helpful" which means cleaning up after another (be it children or to help someone else out) and then their are community/family maintence jobs such doing bills, post office, grocery shopping, dishes, taking out trash, yard maintance, home repair, etc. and there is income production and financial planning jobs. All these kinds of jobs are for all the adults equally (even if there is a stay at home parent..because single parents still have these jobs) Folks can choose to have one adult do more or less of certain community jobs but those are negotiatiable, but equally responsible to understand how its gonna be attended to. Without a family that sets up a system whereas adults experience equality then the relationship is in big trouble. I am so glad that folks are letting you know that this is not something for you to tolerate, and there needs to be some real clarity about all these kinds of jobs involved with family operations this needs to be addressed. As for peeing in a jar, no matter what his excuse, he should be cleaning up the evidence that he does such a thing (in fact, out of respect, he's elimination fluids should be something that he avoids you ever having to see or deal with, if it can be helped)
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#8 of 52 Old 10-01-2008, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#9 of 52 Old 10-01-2008, 10:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ahappymel View Post
DH also has a bedpan that he sometimes uses. It doesn't always get dumped right away : (
Maybe I should just invite more people over (specifically, his family) and let them see how he lives. With my luck it would backfire ie; "Wow, Mel lets her family live in that mess...???"
WTH. Is there a medical reason that you OWN a bedpan let alone have one in use. JMHO It is not healthy for kids to live in an environment where urine and feces are. The bedpan and urinal need to go. Good luck (I just realized that this sounded harsh-not meant that way I'm on your side, really!)
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#10 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 01:40 AM
 
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check out http://www.squalorsurvivors.com/ It might be of help to you.

It is NOT WRONG for you to want a clean/sanitary home!!!!!!!

check out this page in particular http://www.squalorsurvivors.com/squalor/measuring.shtml it lists the degrees of squalor....
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#11 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 02:28 AM
 
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bless your heart. yes take care of yourself and your kiddos. no healthy adult needs a bedpan. WTH?!!! Seriously he does have issues. You are normal all you are saying is totally normal and I would feel the same way other than I would have used the cast iron pan to get my hubby to see the light
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#12 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 04:06 AM
 
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by the goddess you are made of some strong stuff! my dh used to be similar, pre me, this is someone who used to febreeze his clothes, bed sheets ect rather than wash them, he had the same bedsheets on the bed for 3 years. Yuck, about the same amount of time between hair washings too, he washed it for our first date though he used to pee in glasses if he was in the bath and didnt want to get out, and then just leave it there, i could go on, but i wont. He doesnt do any of that stuff now, i just dont put up with it, never have i just wont clean up his pee, unless he is sick or something and cant help it. i also refused to deal with it when he puked in my cardboard laundry powder box, and then left it there, urgh, i picked it up and was like why is this wet? he took me out to dinner after that episode.

Really it comes down to respect, he is not showing you, your family or your house respect, he needs help. Hugs, lots and lots of hugs, just letting you know there is hope, people can change.
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#13 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 04:51 AM
 
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Yuck, yuck, yuck. I'm glad that you are going to go to counseling, and hopefully he will join you. I really don't get the bedpan/urine jar thing--I mean, I can see that type of thing in an emergency or certain situations (like, say, many people have a pee bottle when camping during cold weather so they don't have to get out of the tent and freeze in the middle of the night.) But for that to be happening inside a home without a medical reason sounds like there is some disordered thinking/behavior going on there.

Frankly, my first thought was, "is he a heavy pot smoker?" You don't have to answer that on here if you don't want to, but those types of behavior and thinking are often associated with heavy recreational drug usage IME. And concern for hygiene is one of the things that can really go out the window with drug use. Has he always been this messy/dirty and done these behaviors? Are these attitudes new? Or is it just more problematic for you right now because you're working more and have a toddler and are having more trouble keeping up with the cleaning? It sounds like he's acting like a big child--and not a well-behaved one either, but a disturbed, narcissistic, and acting-out child!!! Seriously, my almost-three year old doesn't even pull that kind of stuff--if she spills something I calmly tell her to go get a rag and clean it up, and she almost always does without a problem. Often she'll put her dirty clothes in the hamper on her own initiative without prompting or go put her garbage in the trash can. These are very basic principles that a two year old can master, so when an adult can or does not seem to understand that you can't just leave food spills or bodily fluids wherever, there is something not quite right there somewhere. Did he behave this way with his mother growing up, or with the household help?

This sounds drastic but I might consider documenting this with dated photos (and keeping them in a safe spot, maybe with a friend.) Because it sounds to me like he is sort of downplaying your side of things and also implying that he is the better parent, and that you're abusive, and all of this doesn't add up to a nice scenario. If he turns around and there is a happy ending to this then you will have some great "before" pics to put with your "after" pics of a clean and sanitary house. If not, then you will have some documentation to back up your claims that he is not maintaining a reasonably sanitary home environment suitable for children. I'm sorry to be going down that road, but this just doesn't sound like a good situation.

Is there a third party who you could get to talk to him? (As in, a physician, a fireperson, clergyperson, somebody who's had their house suddenly inspected by CPS? Something like that?) Seriously, I don't know how bad it is but there are health and safety issues here. It's one thing to have an Oscar/Felix Odd-Couple type of marriage, it's pretty common to have a clutter-bug and a neatnik married to each other, but I think you really need to at least focus on the issues where you're getting into actual filth/squalor--for me that would be a few basic categories: Excrement in any form (as in pee bottles, bedpan, poopy diapers), food waste including containers and wrappers being left around, hazardous stuff (like leaving medications or other toxins within reach of the kids) and trash. This is totally unacceptable, and I would have to really seriously put my foot down about those things, and focus your efforts on those things. Leaving his socks on the floor or having a messy desk or leaving an empty coffee cup in the car might be untidy and annoying if you're more on the clean freak side, but it isn't the end of the world, but this is a whole other level of dirty/messy. I mean, seriously, how is your 20 month old going to learn to potty train if his father is peeing/crapping all over the place??!!!
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#14 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 09:08 AM
 
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I can think of a million things to say to try to help you but the more I read the more all I can do is send you and hope that you and your dc are ok.
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#15 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#16 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 11:14 AM
 
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Could he be Diabetic?

It could account for so many of the behaviors.

Maybe a medical exam is in order.

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#17 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#18 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 12:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ahappymel View Post
Hi,
He has not been to a doctor in 20 years and convincing him to go (we both are very very leary of the mainstream medical model) would be impossible.
But...I do not believe he is diabetic. By the way, I come from a family of diabetics (mother diabetic for 35 years, grandmother, all uncles and some cousins) and I have never seen this kind of slobbishness among them.
I'm thinking that the slobbishness may be from depression. Diabetes can cause depression.

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#19 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#20 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#21 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#22 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 03:13 PM
 
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Besides, the potty issues are only a piece of this puzzle.
I agree. Separate the urine and feces issues from his bad attitude about house work and his responsibilities. His pooping and peeing anywhere other than a toilet needs to be of primary importance.

I'm absolutely baffled and grossed out about bottles and pans of waste. That's just so unacceptable. It's lazy and creepy and it has to stop. Did he do this kind of thing when he was a kid? Seriously, really little children are sometimes fascinated with their poop. Was he traumatized when he was little?

Can't get back to sleep: so? Welcome to the real world. Meditate. Count sheep. Stay awake and COPE. Peeing in a bottle is just disgusting.

The reason I'm laying into him so much is to stir you up. I think the equitable house cleaning issue is very important. But this habit of his is utterly bizarre and that you've put up with it AT ALL suggests that you may have lost perspective. He certainly has, if he's come to believe that putting his crap anywhere other than the toilet is okay.

Someone moved my effing cheese.
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#23 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 03:16 PM
 
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I am feeling the same way right now. It is crap.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#24 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 03:21 PM
 
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This is SO very wrong. He needs to do his part. Somehow he needs to get straightened out and he should be doing his part of the household.


This has to be so stressful and overwhelming for you. And, my DH is sort of the same way in that his grandmother and mother used to do most of the stuff growing up. The only 'chores' he did was mow the lawn when he got older. Which left him pretty much knowing how to do nothing when he got older, went to college. He can't cook, has pretty much no cleaning skills. Thankfully I will get him started with things, and he has learned how to do some stuff over the years. All kiddos should help out...boys and girls and they should start young.

How about your older DC, I read you have a 7 y.o. Children can do some things as well. But, both you and DH need to model good behavior. They're going to grow up thinking this is normal. Even worse, he is teaching your daughter how a husband should treat a wife. If it were me, that would bug me a lot.

You're supposed to be a team, and that means all of you work towards adding positively to the household. He doesn't sound like he's a team player. Which is a great analogy that I use when I talk to my DH about this kind of stuff as he's really into sports! Some men are of the attitude that they "work" and their wives stay home and should do everything. : Both of you should be putting 150% into your marriage and your family life, and it sounds like you're putting in your full energy and he's not lifting a finger.

And, something needs to *shock him* into reality, right now, to me it sounds like he's just letting the daily momentum carry him through his typical behavior.


Perpetually breastfeeding or pregnant ENFP mom to a lot of kids...wife to a midwestern nice guy...living in tropical paradise...pink cats and homebirths rock!

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#25 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#26 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 04:59 PM
 
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Many to you.

Someone moved my effing cheese.
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#27 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 05:12 PM
 
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Was he born in America? Was he raised in a different culture? I ask because sometimes different cultures have different attitudes about their bodily waste.

Mommy to kids

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#28 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 06:22 PM
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Those behaviors sound completely disgusting and unacceptable. I am not trying to make you feel worse mama just confirming that you are in fact, *not* crazy or overreacting as your husband says (which in itself is a form of abuse).

I mean, urinating and deficating all over the place??? The fact that they are "in things" (like that makes it better) is not an excuse imo.

I dunno, to me it sounds like some very serious mental health issues. I could not for one second imagine my husband doing something like that -- unless it were a dire emergency (have to pee and in the middle of nowhere on a road trip or something). My husband is far from perfect so I am not trying to say his s--- doesn't stink (no pun intended lol) but seriously, I would be in utter and total *shock* (and disgust!) if he did some of the behaviors you mentioned then tried to convince me *I* was the crazy one.

I almost thought these posts were troll posts until I saw your post count!!

I hope you sort this out soon mama
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#29 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 07:10 PM
 
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I can't even imagine what you are dealing with...now tell us his GOOD qualities...there has to be a reason you are in this relationship.
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#30 of 52 Old 10-02-2008, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I can't even imagine what you are dealing with...now tell us his GOOD qualities...there has to be a reason you are in this relationship.
No, I'm not a troll, unfortunately LOL
Okay, his GOOD qualities (I'm just going to put these up as they pop into my brain):

1) Vegetarian like me.
2) Very active with the kids
3) Smart.
4) Can be very kind most of the time.
5) Handsome
6) He does work very hard at whatever is in front of him (even if he neglects a bunch of other stuff to get it done).
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