The end of the world! And other thoughts on self-sufficiency... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 34 Old 01-19-2011, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Disclaimer: I am not crazy, though this post may make me sound like a paranoid nutjob.  I am just using it to clear my head and maybe get some feedback from others who feel the same way.

 

I had a dream last night, which was kind of odd.  Either I don't remember my dreams lately, or I just haven't been having any because I don't sleep enough.  It's probably some combination of both.  Mostly, my dreams are about work: chasing people, shooting people, being shot, my partner getting shot...  Fun things like that.  I rarely have happy dreams, and last night's was no exception. 

 

I'm not sure what had happened.  In the way of all dreams, I started off somewhere in the middle of the storyline.  DH and I were in Michigan, somewhere west of Detroit.  It was far enough west that it was pretty rural, not in the suburbs of Detroit or Ann Arbor.  Something bad had happened, something big, and people everywhere were panicked.  There was no electricity, no running water, no social order.  It was every man for himself, what the "tin foil hat" people call TEOTWAWKI (The End of the World as We Know It).  Whatever had broken down society must have been fairly recent.  People were scared, but there was no violence yet.  Most people were simply wandering aimlessly or clustered together talking and crying.  DH and I had originally been trying to get to wherever my mom was, but because of the increasing chaos, we made the decision to get out.  It seemed imperative that we get to where no people were so that we could just try to survive the coming holocaust.

 

I woke up wondering if our little family could survive something like that.  While I have some food storage and have taken some prepatory measures in case of a major disaster, I know we couldn't survive a long-term crisis without leaving our home and this immediate area. 

 

I'd be lying if I said that the thought of something like this happening doesn't scare the shit out of me.  I don't dwell on it, and I don't think it's likely that there will be a single event after which all society in North America will break down.  But the fact remains that it is a possibility, especially on a smaller scale (natural disaster, political riots, etc.). 

 

For several years I've felt like I'm being pulled along a path.  I don't know if it's God, my own interests, or just my imagination.  I almost feel compelled to make my life more simple, to be as self-sufficient as possible, to learn as much as I can about raising and growing our own food and creating our own energy.  I want our home to be a refuge from the world; not isolated, but just a safe-haven where I don't have to worry about "what happens if..." scenarios because I know we can handle it. 

 

It started out with a spark of an idea, to store some food in case of an emergency, as well as DH and I both wanting to live in a cabin in the woods.  Granted, our cabin idea was more whimsical than practical, more an aesthetic ideal than anything else.  But the two together have grown and caught fire, and I now feel a burning need to make it happen. 

 

I am impatient and slightly obsessive by nature; when I want something, I plan it out to the last detail.  I think over the possibilities and look repeatedly for variations until I find what I feel to be the best course of action.  And I always want it yesterday.  I hate waiting.  I've gotten better at it, at least externally, but I continue to think and mull over an idea until it happens or I'm able to move on to the next great idea.  I've been doing it off and on with my bathroom and kitchen remodeling plans since we've moved into the house.  I have a friend who is exactly the same; if I have the seeds of a mental illness planted here, at least I'm not alone!

 

While I've taken steps at our current home to be as self-sufficient as possible while enhancing resale value, I feel like the time has come to move on.  Our house still needs some remodeling, though, and realistically we won't be ready to sell for at least another year.  Quite probably 2.  We're saving money, we're out of debt except the house, and we are actively trying to get it together so that we can move.  But it's starting to drive me nuts that I can't live the way I want to.  We only have half an acre, so I can't really raise any animals except our chickens due to zoning regulations.  I want out.

 

Is anyone else in a similar situation?  How do you ladies cope? 


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#2 of 34 Old 01-19-2011, 09:07 AM
 
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I spent a couple of years wanting to move to the country and convinced that it wasn't going to happen ever (dh wasn't on board). I just dealt with it but occasionally it made me depressed. When he finally got on board it was an horrible couple of months waiting to sell the house and go, I don't think I've ever been that depressed in my life. Just keep working towards it. If you want it bad enough it'll happen.

As for the end of the world stuff. Unless you live deep in the bush where you can close off access roads, if the shits hits the fan in a bad way, being self sufficient (as much as one can be these days) isn't going to be of much help. If people go all crazy the way they do in the movies, they'll be heading my way to steal my livestock. No amount of firepower is going to fight off a hungry mob! "Into the Forest" is a really good read that kind of reflects this. I can't bring myself to read "The Road".

But with rising prices and environmental destruction, a greater self sufficiency is definitely the way to go.

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#3 of 34 Old 01-19-2011, 09:47 AM
 
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Do you read Sharon Astyk?  She did a piece on "adapting in place" last year that might be helpful to you.  Search Sharon Astyk "Adapting in Place" on google and you should find it.  

 

 

I went through 2 years where I was dooming pretty bad about "the end of the world" "society breaking down" etc.  All I can say is, there's a reason why the LATOC forum went down, most people can't sustain that type of thinking for too long without becoming depressed.  

 

In reality, just do what you can, prepare as much as you can NOW.  At the end of all my doomer thinking we ended up buying a house, not in the country, but in a regular sized town, in a tight knit neighborhood, and plan on planting trees and working with our neighbors.  More along the lines of "urban homesteading" rather than rural homesteading.

 

Learning skills is always more important than acquiring things.  Canning, preserving, scratch cooking, learning how to substitute ingredients and do without or make do, sewing/mending, knitting/crocheting, herbal tinctures/medicine, hunting, fishing and how to properly clean, gut and cook the food, home making products instead of buying them, you get the picture.  All these things can be done where you are and will leave you feeling more prepared and confident that you could make it anywhere.  Because often in cases of disaster people are uprooted and have to move.  You'd have your skills to survive wherever you go.

 

Now you may already know how to do all those things, well then you can learn other (how to fix an outboard engine, how to repair bicycles, how to spin yarn, how to shave a sheep,lol).  And you can get better at the ones you already know how to do.

 

Most importantly, is gathering your tribe.  What people do you know in your current location that would help you out and vice versa?  What about the people immediately around you, your neighbors?  Are you on good terms?  Humans have historically survived hard times in tribes, there is power in numbers.  It doesn't have you be you and your family against the world.  You can have your tribe surround you.  Make connections.  

 

It doesn't matter than you can't move for 1 or 2 years.  Anything can happen at any given time and the best time to be prepared is now.  

 

Some things to think about besides what I typed up there:

water filters,

air filters

indoor gardening (sprouts, growing lights)

patio gardening (heck you have a half acre) alot can be grown there, have you read the Dervaes http://www.dervaesgardens.com/about-the-city-farmers

 

alternative electricity or power

loading the pantry

saving yarn/notions/thread

saving seeds

collecting a library of useful books

digitizing your important papers onto an external portable hard drive (or making hard copies and placing them somewhere safe)

 

 

 

~marimara

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#4 of 34 Old 01-19-2011, 10:05 AM
 
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I am in exactly the same situation and I also feel as though I'm going crazy.  I have been planning on moving off-grid and being as self sufficient as possible in a community/tribe situation for years and we are finally to the point where we are really ready and going to do it, but we don't want a mortgage and don't want to be alone.  We are trying to find people to go in on buying land with us.  We have chickens and fruit trees and a very big garden all right here in the city but we want to be farther out.  My partner is a doomer, and I just think that I would rather live a community and land based lifestyle whether or not there is a global economic crisis or peak oil causes food shortages or whatever.  We want to move this spring. 

I agree that your community is really the most important part and that is part of why I want to move because I know that I am not going to stay here in Omaha (living with my parents right now) and so, while I have friends, I really want to start putting down roots and getting involved in my community.  We are young and have been moving a lot and so we have many friends spread throughout the US who are all doing their own thing, or, if they want to do our thing, don't have enough money to move or aren't really at the place in their life to settle down for good.

Basically I have to go to work but if you want to go in on buying some land around the Michigan/Wisconsin area, you let me know because we are so ready.

p.s. I don't know if reading books about peak oil helps or makes it worse but a good optimistic one I read recently was called "Plan C" and I totally recommend it.

Rachael

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#5 of 34 Old 01-19-2011, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by rmferber View Post

Basically I have to go to work but if you want to go in on buying some land around the Michigan/Wisconsin area, you let me know because we are so ready.

p.s. I don't know if reading books about peak oil helps or makes it worse but a good optimistic one I read recently was called "Plan C" and I totally recommend it.

Rachael


How's Indiana sound?  We can't move out of the county we are in due to our jobs, so we're stuck here.  Unfortunately, land prices are higher than a more rural are, but we are close to South Bend, so there's a bit of culture to be found as a trade-off.  We also have an awesome year-round farmer's market and are close to good medical care if necessary.  You should PM me and we can talk. 

 

We already do the "urban homesteading" thing, to some degree.  I have the garden, I can and freeze my own produce, sauces, and jams, we got chickens last year, and I can cook from scratch and use our food storage.  Our overall goal isn't to live completely self-sufficiently.  I have no interest in weaving, sewing, or other textile arts, though I can sew if necessary...  We mostly just want to tread lightly on the earth, protect ourselves from chemical-laden foods, raise our child(ren?) without a ton of media or government influence.   I have no interest in weaving, sewing, or other textile arts, though I can sew if necessary...  We're learning more as we go, and have friends and family that have all contributed to teaching us valuable skills.  In the past year alone, I've learned about making lotions and soaps, how to butcher poultry, additional cooking and canning skills, and DH has practiced his construction skills by building several sets of shelves, a chicken coop, and a shed.  Unfortunately, most of our "tribe" are already settled where they are, and the only ones that would likely be interested in buying property with us would be my mom, and my best friend's parents.  My mom doesn't want to move until after she retires.  My best friend's parents are dead broke, and I don't see them moving inside of 5 years (if then).  Even then, I'm not sure that their financial situation will be strong enough to bring any money to the table.  My "tribe" is great for learning skills, but I don't see us all getting together to buy real estate.

 

I love Sharon Astyk, BTW.  I have her book "Independence Days", but hadn't seen the article a PP mentioned.  I'll check it out.  The Dervaes family is also a source of inspiration for me.  I really shouldn't complain about my half acre when they do so much with less property!  We're just trying to balance the homesteading with resale right now.  I think goats would really drive off potential buyers, even if they were in a nice, well-kept enclosure.  We're really just trying hard to wrap up the current projects and get the house in saleable (is that a word?) shape.  The sooner we do that, the sooner we can work on our dream. 

 

My biggest problem right now is that I have a piece of property in mind, and the gentleman who owns it is willing to sell to me.  I suppose that's the part that's making me nuts more than anything.  The land is there, but we're not ready!  It's 40 acres, has a creek running through it, about half wooded and half open, and there's a perfect spot for a home next to the creek and protected by a windbreak of trees.  There's also an unsided pole barn on the property.  I suppose if it really is the right property, it will be there waiting for us when we're ready to buy.  As I said, though, it's just driving me mad.


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#6 of 34 Old 01-19-2011, 12:58 PM
 
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I thought marimara's post was great.

 

OP, you're not alone. There is a growing consciousness. When I say consciousnes, I mean that whether TEOTWAWKI is a reality or not, people HAVE been "slumbering" for a while, lulled by the ease of technology and the grid. We've lost skills in a short amount of time. And now we're awakening to the fact that we've placed our very survival on systems, processes, technologies and companies rather than on ourselves and our communities.

 

Personally, I think it's reasonable for you to move on so you can gain more self sufficiency. I actually wasn't clear what the issue was, though. Is your husband not on board? Yeah, that would be a problem. Or just feeling a little nutty about it? Eh, go ahead and feel nutty. Having your own chickens and fruit trees and woodlot is really valuable (though as PPs have said, skills are the most valuable preparation).

 

Can you reframe this as an adventure rather than imminent disaster?

 

I know the feeling of anxiety and urgency, though. Sometimes I think "gee, and I think if the SHTF I'll wave my 24 cans of red beans at it and it'll go away, yeah right." But, while stockpiles, tools and so on are defintely useful, survival seems to be fundamentally your will, skills, instinct, and attitude, and your equipment is a much smaller factor. People get lost in the woods and die overnight even adequately attired (and even when the weather is nice) and with water and snacks in their backpack; others are found a week later having built shelter and found adequate provisions on their own. I'd rather have the equipment too, but it's secondary. If you haven''t read When Technology Fails (Matthew Stein) there is a great section on survival attitude and instinct. There's another book called The Survivor's Club, it's not oriented toward SHTF or TEOTWAWKI stuff but more like surviving bad accidents and such, but it's also useful to see that surviving as far as we can is ultimately about having the guts to keep truckin' and not give up.

 

It's an adventure. Ask yourself, "What am I surviving FOR?" Then insert all the good stuff and omit the fear.

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#7 of 34 Old 01-19-2011, 02:46 PM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by laohaire View Post

It's an adventure. Ask yourself, "What am I surviving FOR?" Then insert all the good stuff and omit the fear.


Indeed, indeed!

 

OP, I have to say that as soon as I saw your subject line, I had to immediately click on it, because I too am filled with a sense of 'something wicked this way comes.' Of course I have no clue what form it'll take, but I joked around with a friend recently that I feel like an animal right before a hurricane or some other disaster hits-- you know how they go on high-alert? That's me right now. I actually posted a question about it a long while back on MDC, asking if anybody else felt like Something Big was on its way-- not necessarily the end of the world, but TEOTWAWKI, and there were several who responded with a yes. Like laohaire said, there's a growing consciousness.

 

My heart tells me it's from God, trying to help us wake up and be prepared...

 

Anyway, my family and I are only in the beginning stages of self-sufficiency-- i.e. we're mainly just reading and trying to learn about it. This is obviously not enough; at some point we have to make the leap from learning it to actually living it. I'm building up our pantry, we've just ordered and received a plethora of heirloom seeds, I have a boatload of how-to books, and I am slowly gathering necessary supplies-- but as far as skills go, we're woefully underprepared. We're also about a year away from buying our land (we're currently renting) and starting to build-- and since I have the definite sense that time is running out, it's easy for me to get stressed about it. The thing that comforts me is this: I don't think God would bother urging us to all get prepared if it was too late to do so. I also don't think it's strictly about physical preparations, but mental/spiritual preparations too.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to chime in here and say you're not alone in your premonitions...

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#8 of 34 Old 01-19-2011, 03:25 PM
 
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I really second the motion that .... having a tribe is the single most important thing.  It's in groups that we survive in tough times.  We have a strong residential religious community my family is members of down the road.  When the bleep hits the fan, that's where you'll find us.

 

I don't think a disaster like you felt in your dream is an impossibility or illogical, I just don't know how much you can really do to prepare for it in advance other than make sure you have an awesome network of friends and family.  

 

I don't think a disaster is necessary for a drastic change in our life styles.  My husband says that 2045 is when the last unit of fossil fuel will be used up.  Whenever it actually is, when that happens we'll all be spending most of our time harvesting the earth and the power of the sun (farming, cutting firewood) etc.  

 

The biggest threat to our existence?  Disease.   The little old microbe, probably out of some deep jungle somewhere, is the most likely cause of severe scenarios.  Who lives and who dies will probably not be a matter of how many canisters of dried milk we have in our basement.  Not to knock some prep for the unknown, but it's more a peace of mind thing.

 

 

 


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#9 of 34 Old 01-19-2011, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laohaire View Post

 Personally, I think it's reasonable for you to move on so you can gain more self sufficiency. I actually wasn't clear what the issue was, though. Is your husband not on board? Yeah, that would be a problem. Or just feeling a little nutty about it? Eh, go ahead and feel nutty. Having your own chickens and fruit trees and woodlot is really valuable (though as PPs have said, skills are the most valuable preparation).


The issue...  Well, it's mostly that I'm just feeling a little nutty about it right now, plus I'm frustrated that we can't move from our house.  We're in the midst of a remodel, so the house is NOT sellable at the moment.  We need to redo the bathroom and touch up the kitchen, at the very least.  And there are a few odds and ends that need tending.  The bathroom and kitchen are the biggies, though, since we have had some water issues in the past 2 years.

 

I just want to get on with it already.  DH is on board (Thank God.  This man is amazing.  He puts up with my nuttiness and even agrees with it sometimes!).  We both have very stable jobs with zero chance of loss due to the economy, "downsizing", or much of anything unless we screw up very badly.  Patience is not my strong point!
 


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#10 of 34 Old 01-20-2011, 01:39 PM
 
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I hear you.  DH and I are planning on relocating out of the city.  He's a doomer but I mostly want to live and raise my sons where I have room to breathe and there is actual nature outside the door instead of landscaping.  DH and I both grew up rurally -- mine was more the capturing of horned toads and trap-door spiders, his more the chickens and cows thing.  So it's hard for us to envision raising our sons in this suburban lifestyle.  We're looking (not exclusively) at TN, OH, and OR for various reasons.  Unfortunately our tribe here in VA has mostly fallen apart with failing marriages in the last year and it's us and another single mom that are left.  That would be my major hesitation with going in on land with anybody else -- it's almost like a marriage but with more people.  What happens when one person or one family flakes?  

 

Anyhow, we can't afford financially to sell and move for at least another couple of years.  We have a plan but the housing implosion means it will take us a while to dig out of our mortgage enough to sell the place here and have enough to make a very large down payment somewhere else.  In the meantime I grow stuff, sew stuff, and craft stuff.


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#11 of 34 Old 01-20-2011, 04:45 PM
 
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I think Laohaire hit the proverbial nail on the head with this:

 

Quote:

people HAVE been "slumbering" for a while, lulled by the ease of technology and the grid. We've lost skills in a short amount of time. And now we're awakening to the fact that we've placed our very survival on systems, processes, technologies and companies rather than on ourselves and our communities.

 

Our basest need is survival, and I think conscious people come to a realisation that they don't know how to take care of themselves, that they are reliant on impersonal means of obtaining the basics for survival. This is a new situation for human beings, and we're totally unique in this way; no other living beings are in such a state en masse, except those that we've domesticated for our use (don't let the chickens free in the backwoods for their own good...).

 

That's it! We've become domesticated. I'd rather be wild. My nature is wild, so being domesticated keeps me submissive, subservient, and incapacitated, but there's no benefit to me that I want, in that trade-off, unlike for sheep and chickens; I truly don't need or want systems, technology, corporations, or gov't to "protect" me. Their protection comes at a greater cost than I am willing to pay. There is risk involved in life, and I accept that. I'll take freedom over risk-aversion any day.

 

I don't think the world is ending, but I do think that humans are recognising their unwitting domestication, and desire to free themselves. I think that's a sign of health, not doom. :)

 

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#12 of 34 Old 01-21-2011, 06:41 AM
 
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My nature is wild, so being domesticated keeps me submissive, subservient, and incapacitated, but there's no benefit to me that I want, in that trade-off, unlike for sheep and chickens 



I agree with the domestication idea, but I DEFINITELY don't think there's any benefit for sheep and chickens either :) They would much rather have stayed wild!


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#13 of 34 Old 01-21-2011, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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     Quote:

Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C View Post

 

That's it! We've become domesticated. I'd rather be wild. My nature is wild, so being domesticated keeps me submissive, subservient, and incapacitated, but there's no benefit to me that I want, in that trade-off, unlike for sheep and chickens; I truly don't need or want systems, technology, corporations, or gov't to "protect" me. Their protection comes at a greater cost than I am willing to pay. There is risk involved in life, and I accept that. I'll take freedom over risk-aversion any day.

 

I don't think the world is ending, but I do think that humans are recognising their unwitting domestication, and desire to free themselves. I think that's a sign of health, not doom. :)

 



Yes!  Exactly!  A friend of mine and I often talk about his, how most people, given a disaster-type situation where there was no outside help for some time (Hurricaine Katrina, anyone?) will just shut down.  The thugs in the city are much more equipped for survival than the upper-class suburban families.  The thugs know how to survive.  I was reading some accounts of Katrina about a year ago, and it surprised me that while there was looting and crime, most people just sat down and prayed, cried, and/or waited for help.  Our current society has set people up to be victims.

 

I do not want that for myself, and I don't want to raise my child(ren) with that mentality. 

 

+1 on wanting my kids to grow up in nature.  We have a daycare down the street, and while they do an excellent job of caring for the children (I have several friends who love it there), the kids aren't exposed to enough nature, IMO.  There's a fenced playground where the kids play... right next to a grove of trees.  I'd so much rather have my kids climbing trees than playground equipment.  Is there really much difference as far as liability?  I also declined buying DS a kiddie pool because we are walking distance from a lake, and we have a membership at a club that has nice beach.  Some of my friends were horrified when I said I'd rather take my (then) 8 month old son to the lake instead of a pool.  I seriously have fantasies about my kids running through woods and meadows, splashing in a creek, and catching frogs and bugs.  It saddens me that there are kids that will never have this experience.  My nieces and nephews are in that situation.  They had no idea what blueberries were, and if they didn't come out to our little half acre in the "country", they'd never get any exposure to nature. 


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#14 of 34 Old 01-21-2011, 03:03 PM
 
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Quote:
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My nature is wild, so being domesticated keeps me submissive, subservient, and incapacitated, but there's no benefit to me that I want, in that trade-off, unlike for sheep and chickens 



I agree with the domestication idea, but I DEFINITELY don't think there's any benefit for sheep and chickens either :) They would much rather have stayed wild!


No doubt initially; I just meant that now, after being domesticated and consequently dependent, they wouldn't, in their present state, survive. If they had been left wild, they'd be surviving the way their nature dictates. They might over time regain those lost abilities, though.

 

I'd read an account of how the wolf became our domestic dog. It suggested that wolves scavenging from small, tribal settlements slowly acclimated to human interaction, then company, then desired companionship primarily because of a feeding relationship. I've had that experience with a feral cat, and this happens individually with many species. It's interesting.

 

I don't mind having domestic chickens, but like you, factory farming disgusts me. The chickens at the farm we live on are free-range and a sufficiently small number to have developed their own society consisting of several groups that mingle, but that are distinct and loyal to their own troupes. My family will have our own flocks this year, and we are opting for hen-raised heritage breeds. They will be free-range (truly- just roaming around the property eating bugs and grass), and live like chickens, though not like their wild ancestors.

 

It is sort of eerie to think of humans being so thoroughly domesticated as to be in the same condition as even the most appreciated chickens...

 

 


Well, I've been absent for 8 months, and during that time, it turns out that I have completely transformed. You are all precious. Thank you for being here and sharing your lives. You are truly a gift. namaste.gif Jan. 23, 2012

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#15 of 34 Old 01-21-2011, 03:12 PM
 
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Diana, the need for roaming in childhood is so under-appreciated. We're moving to the other side of the earth to assure this need for our family. I want to roam, too! Drastic, but necessary, imo. 

 

My dc roam freely here, but it's only warm enough to do so for about 4-5 months per year, and the cold is completely prohibitive the rest of the time. So they free-range indoors the rest of the time. :( So sad. The warm months come up to 24 hrs of light, though, so they make up for lost time, but the indoor/outdoor division is too stark, and oppressive by December.


Well, I've been absent for 8 months, and during that time, it turns out that I have completely transformed. You are all precious. Thank you for being here and sharing your lives. You are truly a gift. namaste.gif Jan. 23, 2012

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I have intuitive dreams of the future and because of it, we have finally bought land and a house in the middle of nowhere.  I am not afraid of the future, but more of a "brring it on" attitude.  I live normal, my gas gizzling car, and loving my gas heat, but dh have been to(and met) at a wilderness survival school.  We have been trained that if we need to just drop everything and live in the woods, we can well and unnoticed by any enemy.  Sure we have a wheat grinder, and lots of food stored, but I would more likely survive on wild game and plants.  We keep a to go bag of wool clothing that are great earthy colors and a good knife and a few other supplies and they are ready to take and go into thw woods.  Btu we are prepared if we have to drop our packs too.   I have yet to find a "tribe" but I don't usually tell people I am looking for one.

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#17 of 34 Old 02-02-2011, 08:53 AM
 
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There is nothing crazy about wanting to be prepared! There are no guarantees in life, and I wish more people would understand that.  If you think about it, our society is so fragile. Countries have collapsed before, and if you are wise, you understand that history often repeats itself.

Will our country ever collapse? Who knows!    A wise person would assume it will, plan for the worst, and try to enjoy life in the meantime. That is what we are doing. We are working on an off-grid homestead. So far, we have paid off our place, installed a wood stove, bought a water filter, and we're storing lots of food and supplies.

 

In the meantime, we are still living life as usual! We go camping, to the movies, Church, shopping, watch tv, play computer, go to parties, etc. We are planning for a disaster which may or may not happen, and living life as usual.

 

In my opinion, those of you who are aware, and who are planning for things "just in case", are very intelligent. The folks who call you "crazy"--the heck with them! Don't let them get you down. Just keep preparing. If you think about it, the only crazy person is a lazy person!

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#18 of 34 Old 02-03-2011, 11:32 AM
 
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I appreciate that people have a need to feel and also be prepared for what they perceive as potential threats. For me, I am very concerned about the increasing power of government in my country. Charging off into the woods is not really a helpful strategy for my family, but leaving here altogether is, so that's what we're doing. I have a lot of concern about the cultural acceptance of neighbour policing that Canadians accept and enforce here (in the name of freedom, too! Eek!). So, moving to a place where the gov't is kept at bay at least for now, by the people, is the best I can do, and my opportunity to contribute to personal freedom there is much more available than here, where things have already gone too far to be reconciled without a revolution, but the people here wouldn't do that (unless you raised cigarette taxes, apparently, but not for personal freedom).

 

So I am preparing, too, but not with packs and food stores, but with savings and passports and information. As an aside, I could survive in the woods too, but the necessity is highly unlikely where I am, anytime sooner than the necessity to leave altogether. It's sad that my grandparents immigrated here to escape an overt regime in their homelands, only to end up living in an in-kind covert regime here. :(


Well, I've been absent for 8 months, and during that time, it turns out that I have completely transformed. You are all precious. Thank you for being here and sharing your lives. You are truly a gift. namaste.gif Jan. 23, 2012

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#19 of 34 Old 02-06-2011, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been talking to DH a lot about my fears, dreams, and desires, and we're starting to move forward with planning our future homestead.  We're especially concentrating on what type of house we can build so that it's both affordable and large enough for our growing family.  I'm fine with a cozy cabin, but DH's dreams are a little more... expansive.  lol.gif  We're doing a good job of compromising, though.  I'm fairly certain that we've found the property that we want to buy.  It's about 15 miles from the city where we currently live (not that we're in the city now, either), and about 4 miles from the nearest town.  It's surrounded by woods and farm fields, and there's a creek bisecting the property.  If all goes well, we'll start talking to the owner about a price agreement soon.  The nice thing is that it's not officially on the market, so we don't have to worry much at all about someone else buying it.

 

We're having a realtor over to the house next week to help us to prioritize our renovations.  Everything we need to do is cosmetic, thankfully, so we want to invest our time and money where it will have the biggest impact.  Since it's winter and we have a little guy, we can't do any painting, staining, or dust-creating work at the moment, but I feel like we're finally moving forward.  Just the act of planning where we're going and how we're going to get there has made me feel less panicky.


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#20 of 34 Old 02-07-2011, 08:56 PM
 
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Can you expand a little on the part I bolded? I'm curious. :)
 

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Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C View Post

I appreciate that people have a need to feel and also be prepared for what they perceive as potential threats. For me, I am very concerned about the increasing power of government in my country. Charging off into the woods is not really a helpful strategy for my family, but leaving here altogether is, so that's what we're doing. I have a lot of concern about the cultural acceptance of neighbour policing that Canadians accept and enforce here (in the name of freedom, too! Eek!). So, moving to a place where the gov't is kept at bay at least for now, by the people, is the best I can do, and my opportunity to contribute to personal freedom there is much more available than here, where things have already gone too far to be reconciled without a revolution, but the people here wouldn't do that (unless you raised cigarette taxes, apparently, but not for personal freedom).

 

So I am preparing, too, but not with packs and food stores, but with savings and passports and information. As an aside, I could survive in the woods too, but the necessity is highly unlikely where I am, anytime sooner than the necessity to leave altogether. It's sad that my grandparents immigrated here to escape an overt regime in their homelands, only to end up living in an in-kind covert regime here. :(




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#21 of 34 Old 02-07-2011, 09:08 PM
 
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I don't think you are crazy, but it DOES sound like you have an anxiety problem. You cannot prepare for anything in life. You really can't. All of the tactics for surviving "the end of the world" have been based on a fictional idea of what the end of the world might be like. We have certain expectations of what will break down, what will still be available, and which shortages we will experience. The world could "end" when our food sources become contaminated (some or all). It could end when our energy sources are comporomised. It could end due to biological warfare. Or someone may nuke us. Or we'll all die of cancer. Or......heck, you may step outside tomorrow and get hit by a bus. You simply can't be prepared for what you have no control over. Trust the Universe (or God. Or both) and live in love, not fear. You will drive yourself crazy thinking about the "what ifs". Enjoy the NOW. Focus on positive thinking and invite positive experiences. You will always attract what you think about most.

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#22 of 34 Old 02-08-2011, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think you are crazy, but it DOES sound like you have an anxiety problem. You cannot prepare for anything in life. You really can't. All of the tactics for surviving "the end of the world" have been based on a fictional idea of what the end of the world might be like. We have certain expectations of what will break down, what will still be available, and which shortages we will experience. The world could "end" when our food sources become contaminated (some or all). It could end when our energy sources are comporomised. It could end due to biological warfare. Or someone may nuke us. Or we'll all die of cancer. Or......heck, you may step outside tomorrow and get hit by a bus. You simply can't be prepared for what you have no control over. Trust the Universe (or God. Or both) and live in love, not fear. You will drive yourself crazy thinking about the "what ifs". Enjoy the NOW. Focus on positive thinking and invite positive experiences. You will always attract what you think about most.

 

I do not agree that I cannot prepare for anything in life.  I live in an area prone to high snowfall.  In my mind it would be foolish not to be prepared to be without power for a week or so.  I keep food, a kerosene heater with fuel, batteries, extra blankets, water, and other supplies on hand in order to be prepared for that type of situation.  I'm not prepared for it to continue indefinitely, but to not have the basics to take care of my family in an emergency is (IMO) irresponsible and a denial of the realities of life.  Hurricaine Katrina victims are a perfect example of not being prepared for the situations in which they may find themselves.  There's not much you can do if a hurricane flattens your house, but there are elements of that disaster that people who live in that area can, and should, be equipped to handle.

 

That said, I know I can't prepare for everything.  And I'm not truly trying to prepare for the "end of the world".  I just want the peace of mind of knowing my family isn't so reliant on others for our basic day-to-day survival.  I don't generally fall into the trap of "what if" thinking, but the dream I had reminded me that there is much more that I can do to take care of my family.  Even if "the end" never comes, I want the satisfaction of knowing we make/raise our own food, produce our own clean power, and tread more lightly on the earth.  I don't believe that God intended people to live the way we currently do, and we abuse His gifts with our wasteful lifestyles.  I'm looking for my way out, my way back to a more simple, responsible life.

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That said, I know I can't prepare for everything.  And I'm not truly trying to prepare for the "end of the world".  I just want the peace of mind of knowing my family isn't so reliant on others for our basic day-to-day survival.  I don't generally fall into the trap of "what if" thinking, but the dream I had reminded me that there is much more that I can do to take care of my family.  Even if "the end" never comes, I want the satisfaction of knowing we make/raise our own food, produce our own clean power, and tread more lightly on the earth.  I don't believe that God intended people to live the way we currently do, and we abuse His gifts with our wasteful lifestyles.  I'm looking for my way out, my way back to a more simple, responsible life.



thumb.gif Beautifully said.


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Can you expand a little on the part I bolded? I'm curious. :)
 


 


 

 Me too.....


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#25 of 34 Old 02-18-2011, 12:47 AM
 
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Well, of course to answer, I risk sticking my neck out, so I'll use very tame examples, and leave anyone who is interested to do the research to find out exactly what is actually going on.

 

A start is that Canadians have no unalienable rights. Not one. We have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is a non-precedent setting charter and can only be enforced through the courts. Every legislated so-called freedom, such as free speech, rests on the charter, and is thereby also not inherent, not innate, not unalienable, and can therefore be denied any Canadian citizen at any time for any reason, which can only be overturned by a judge in the court system. Most of us assume our basic human rights, but this is an American birthright, not Canadian. You cannot claim any rights without court sanction. You can act as though you have them, and this is the best way to live, really, but you are acting as if, and not experiencing freedom, nor are you sovereign, but you'll get to that once you read about the charter in your research.

 

When a fine is issued because a tidy trellis in a well-kept garden is reported because it is 2" over the city bylaw's allowable height, and the delinquent trellis erector is fined along with her warning, that is neighbour policing, and the only real way to consistently enforce bylaws excepting cash cows like parking, for which special reporters are paid to enforce against usually more distant neighbours. Implicit in bylaws of all sorts is interpersonal policing for enforcement, and it's very effective.

 

When anyone must first consider whether his/her intentions in a private home, on private property (and this is a misnomer because no private individual owns something that is registered to the gov't, including land) are permissable, and un-reportable as an infraction before considering whether those intentions acted upon would be beneficial, effective, and/or personally satisfactory, this is acting under the tyranny of democratic policing. Our democracy is not one wherein the people rule (and I would argue that this is an oxymoron since if I can "choose" my governers, then I can govern myself and have no need of them, but I digress; I can work with commonly held connotative definitions), our democracy is one wherein the people police one another.

 

Every Canadian citizen is a mandated reporter of any and every infraction witnessed. It is federally legislated. If you do not act accordingly, then be thankful that someone else hasn't reported you. It's our only saving grace that this is such an enormous land-mass, allowing for enough space that people's real life experience with this reality can be somewhat mitigated by the ability to move if they don't like it where they are.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. It's very apparent that most people cannot see their human vivarium because it has been so cleverly built. Maybe most people don't care.

 

I do.


Well, I've been absent for 8 months, and during that time, it turns out that I have completely transformed. You are all precious. Thank you for being here and sharing your lives. You are truly a gift. namaste.gif Jan. 23, 2012

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Every Canadian citizen is a mandated reporter of any and every infraction witnessed. It is federally legislated. If you do not act accordingly, then be thankful that someone else hasn't reported you. It's our only saving grace that this is such an enormous land-mass, allowing for enough space that people's real life experience with this reality can be somewhat mitigated by the ability to move if they don't like it where they are.

 


Wow.  I never realized that Canada had legislation mandating "crime" reporting.  Granted, there are plenty of tattle-talers here who call police (or code enforcement, if their locality has it) for every little thing.  "They play music too loud," or "Their shed is 4 inches too close to the property line," and similar complaints.  Working in law enforcement, things like that drive me mad.  Why can't you go ask your neighbor politely to turn it down?  Why do you care about your neighbor's shed?  Most officers I work with have similar feelings and don't bother so much with the small stuff.  I suppose you could call it selective enforcement, but I view it as good time and resource management... 

 

I also never realized that inalienable rights were so unique to the US.  Even if you don't chose to believe in God, the fact that those rights belong to you and are not a construct of the government...  That would most certainly bother me.  I'm not always happy with our government's actions, but I'm grateful for the protections outlined in the Constitution that keep things from getting too out of hand.  All we need to do is look at the austerity measures happening all across Europe to see that a more socialist approach to government is not the proper road, economically or socially. 

 

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That sounds like a load of fear mongering. It may be like that on paper, but that's not the way people live in my experience. I'm totally willing to admit that life may be very different for you but I don't think that's the norm. Maybe I'm living in a bubble. Who knows. But I know that daily life here is pretty good (especially compared to things you hear about in the US right now) and I'm not that worried about it. Some people tend to see trouble wherever they look. Others are more relaxed. 

 

One thing that DOES bother me is the Quebec/Canada issue. As an english person living in Quebec, I'm tired of feeling like a second class citizen. Can't we all just get along?! :(


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Pardon me if my above post seemed harsh, I was just... so surprised to hear something so far off from what I (and most people I know in multiple provinces) feel is the norm. 


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That sounds like a load of fear mongering. It may be like that on paper, but that's not the way people live in my experience. I'm totally willing to admit that life may be very different for you but I don't think that's the norm. Maybe I'm living in a bubble. Who knows. But I know that daily life here is pretty good (especially compared to things you hear about in the US right now) and I'm not that worried about it. Some people tend to see trouble wherever they look. Others are more relaxed. 

 

One thing that DOES bother me is the Quebec/Canada issue. As an english person living in Quebec, I'm tired of feeling like a second class citizen. Can't we all just get along?! :(

Nor in my experience. I've been in Canada for 20 years and my experience is that it's a great place. I don't see a lot/any of what is being discussed here. It's definitely the first time I've heard of "mandatory crime reporting". It may be on paper, but I've never experienced it or heard of it. I'm not going to argue against it, but I can assure you that it's not exactly 1984 up here... LOL

 

The Quebec/Canada thing bugs me too. It's such a shame when if we DID all get along, the culture would only be enriched.

 

 


 


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Quote:
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That sounds like a load of fear mongering. It may be like that on paper, but that's not the way people live in my experience. I'm totally willing to admit that life may be very different for you but I don't think that's the norm. Maybe I'm living in a bubble. Who knows. But I know that daily life here is pretty good (especially compared to things you hear about in the US right now) and I'm not that worried about it. Some people tend to see trouble wherever they look. Others are more relaxed. 

 

One thing that DOES bother me is the Quebec/Canada issue. As an english person living in Quebec, I'm tired of feeling like a second class citizen. Can't we all just get along?! :(


hippie.gif Actually, fear mongering would entail intentionally misleading in order to perpetrate an unreasonable fear. I gave a few real-life examples, all from cities larger than 300,000 people, not a diatribe about how afraid anyone is or ought to be. I am not afraid, and think fear is exactly the least helpful response, so I take issue with your accusation. If you do the research (anything you want to know is clearly expressed in our gov't literature, not on some hyped-up extremist blog selling bugout packs), you will find this information to be correct. You'll also notice that I expressed that the best way to live is to carry on as if your basic human rights are unalienable, because as a human being myself, I refuse to passively hand them over, registered citizen or not, though it is true that they may be denied me at any time.

 

I am not an activist or behaving in any way that brings attention to me, incidentally, not out of fear, so I don't have any daily problems with this, but I do have conscientious objections to it. I do see the way it plays out for others (most unwitting), and I don't like that the cultural trend is toward more and more gov't regulation. The amount of gov't employees vs. the amount of citizens of this country is by itself staggering. This is an enormous obstacle to progress, and I'm interested in sovereignty of the individual, actual private ownership (not registration with the gov't, which means I have title, financial and maintenance responsibility in full, but the gov't has all of the say in what I am permitted to do with it- hardly my "ownership" in any proper sense) among other pro-human ideals.

 

I do not need fear to alert me to the absurdity of the gov't's required "voluntary compliance." As far as this reality not being overtly and clearly defined in the media, and between average citizens, why on earth would the gov't agents whose comfort and revenues come from the rest of us, want to alarm anyone? Of course nobody's being hauled off to jail for not reporting even serious infractions of the legislation; to do so could potentially cause unrest, but the legislation is in place to do whatever is deemed "necessary" by whichever crown-appointed agency of the gov't, at any time, just in case (what case? Don't know. I don't care to spend my time imagining scenarios in which this might happen- like I wrote, I'm not a conspiracy theorist).

 

But we're all comfy cozy up here. So, not 1984, but evidently, most are ample patrons of Huxley's "Feelies."  Respectfully, I wasn't addressing how Canadians "feel" about their experiences living here: I was addressing very directly the way our gov't and culture work in tandem to produce inappropriate personal-boundary crossing and the absolute lack of unalienable human rights. Most people don't know this, so of course, it follows that they will not feel it either.

 

No need to assume that being aware of the facts as they are makes me a zealot or something similar. I live peaceably, do my own thing, don't report anyone to any gov't employee, and rather enjoy where I live, which I chose deliberately to have the semblance of freedom that I experience. But none of that is afforded me by the gov't by any stretch: it's all my own doing and I'll take credit for it myself. I'm just neither afraid of recognizing how it really is, nor afraid of making rational decisions in consideration of the facts. To me, it matters that my freedom is actual, and claimable. If it doesn't to others, that's fine, I guess, though I don't relate.

 

Please, kindly, do not accuse me of what I have not done, and above all, don't be concerned with what I express if it doesn't accord with your subjective experiences and you want to keep it that way: the irony of falsely accusing me of fear-mongering for stating my observations of inter-personal policing between Canadians, is not lost on me here. Perhaps you might see the cultural effect of this "democracy" in your response? I'm sure you just want to defend Canada. I get that. But it isn't necessary, and in this case, it's unwarranted because my facts are correct, and readily available to anyone who is interested in finding out for him/herself. Don't believe anything I've written, but if you care, find out for yourself so you can know, and not be beholden to erroneous beliefs.

 

I was seriously not happy to discover this, and it was quite by accident, but once I started learning about it, it was important to me personally to research further. I have been surprised by how many institutions' documents are right out in the open, but it's true that that's the best place to hide; everybody's looking, but not many are seeing, and/or, they're not asking the right questions.

 

I personally look forward to the end of the world as we know it: we can do soooo much better than this! I am a very optimistic, positive-thinking person. I think human beings have enormous potential, and it would be a heaven on earth were we truly unfettered to accomplish our potentials individually, cooperatively, and benevolently, in actual freedom. I doubt this will come about during my lifetime, but raising children who understand their innate humanity, and that it anticipates (and is thereby programmed for) sovereignty, true freedom, at least improves the likelihood for future generations, though I am personally by far most concerned with the present.


Well, I've been absent for 8 months, and during that time, it turns out that I have completely transformed. You are all precious. Thank you for being here and sharing your lives. You are truly a gift. namaste.gif Jan. 23, 2012

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