early onset BPD and hypersexuality - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 33 Old 03-13-2010, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#2 of 33 Old 03-13-2010, 11:06 PM
 
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I didn't want to read and then ignore your post, but I don't really have any advice. Just for you. That sounds like a really difficult and scary situation. My brother is BP (not diagnosed until 18 but my mom is positive he was also during childhood). I hope you are able to find the help and resources you need to keep your DD safe.

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#3 of 33 Old 03-13-2010, 11:42 PM
 
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How do you feel about the therapies available for her condition? Are there "good" ones that feel "right" to you and others that don't?

All in all, please do take care of yourself on this journey. I know people can judge so easily, and you deserve to be supported as you travel this road to help your DD with her disease.

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#4 of 33 Old 03-14-2010, 11:46 AM
 
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#5 of 33 Old 03-14-2010, 08:18 PM
 
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Why not just remove her ability to text? If she has to have a cell lock it down or get her one that only calls pre approved numbers (like FireFly). Some cell carriers also have parental controls on the phones but you don't know until you ask about it.

Seriously?
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#6 of 33 Old 03-15-2010, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I can lock up her texting. It's probably locked half the time. It doesn't take away the behavior it just changes the outlet. There is no way to remove every outlet of communication from her short of keeping her prisoner and that does not produce a result that is livable. Without social interaction she becomes very depressed and the other harming behaviors increase dramatically. The problem is that she doesn't see the problem -especially when she's engaging in the behavior- she sees the situation as her being lonely and needing to talk so she puts her phone number out there and then talks to the people her respond to her in the way they want her to respond. I know this is probably incomprehensible to most people but it makes perfect sense to her. I can't micromanage her forever and I don't just want to control her I want her to find her life to be happy enough to be worth living. In most ways she is a woman not a girl but the little person in her head who is supposed to let her know when things are inappropriate/wrong/diseased doesn't work. Hopefully, her psychologist will be able to do something for her soon. I just hope she can see the problem.
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#7 of 33 Old 03-15-2010, 04:35 PM
 
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This is probably going to sound totally ridiculous but I speak from personal experience. Extreme physical activity will help curb this. I don't mean let’s go play soccer and base ball 1-2 hours a day, I mean full on heavy duty training in a high energy sport several hours a day every day. In high school I spent 8 hours a day 5 days a week plus 6 hours on Saturday training in marital arts. Granted there was a mix of various training from running to stretching to tai chi to tae kwon do but the point is I was kept fully engaged and active. I made friends and it kept me out of trouble for the most part (I still got in trouble at school) but if I wasn't in school I was usually training. I burned a huge amount of energy and most nights I wasn't allowed to leave until both my gi (uniform) and my belt was soaked (my poor muscles felt like jelly but the endorphin high was worth it) and then I still had to ride my bike home.

It kept me so busy that it kept me away from the problem kids, gave me an outlet for all that energy (ask any guy, heavy exercise helps with sexual frustration and anger/anxiety), most if which, ok 100% of which in my case was negative energy and I spent time with healthy friends. I'm willing to bet she'd stop this if you lock the phone and give her a very healthy outlet for her energy but just 1-2 hours a day won't cut it. I'd say at least 3-4hr+ daily. As soon as my BP1 dd's SSI finally shows up I'm dragging her back to the master for a similar grueling schedule because I know she NEEDS to expend that level of energy to keep out of trouble. Its mind boggling to most people but having BTDT, I understand that need and will be happy to provide it.

Seriously?
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#8 of 33 Old 03-16-2010, 04:41 PM
 
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sadly, in this day and age it's NOT that uncommon for a pre-teen to act this way. i work in a mental health clinic focus on sexuality-based issues, so i can safetly say you're not alone. the best thing you can do is get your DD to see a therapist who HAS EXPERIENCE working with sexuality-specific issues. the best resource i can give you is the national Stop It Now website, they can probably connect you with resources in your area FOCUSING on sexuality. please, please know you're not alone, and i'll be keeping your DD and your family in my thoughts/prayers.

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#9 of 33 Old 03-16-2010, 05:01 PM
 
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I haven't had a chance to read all replies carefully as I'm on my way out the door...but three quick thoughts for you as a mom and as someone who has worked professionally with kids with mental health issues.

First, I understand that you don't want this to be a discipline issue, but it is a safety issue. It is illegal for these adult men to be sending sexually explicit texts to a 12 year old, and I would treat it as such with law enforcement. The men engaging in this with your child are sex predators.

Secondly, has your daughter been sexually abused at any point? Her behavior could be a result of BPD, but I wouldn't rule out needing to work through sexual abuse issues either.

Third...This could also be related to her not having the skills and tools she needs to effectively cope with stress. Sexually acting out can be a maladaptive coping strategy, so having a therapist work with her on some healthy ways to relieve stress and anxiety could decrease her need to act out sexually/cut/etc.

Good luck to you, Mama. I can't imagine what a challenging situation this must be for you. If the psychologist you're working with isn't helping, be sure to see someone new. Sometimes it just isn't a good match. Good luck.
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#10 of 33 Old 03-17-2010, 02:29 PM
 
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I can lock up her texting. It's probably locked half the time. It doesn't take away the behavior it just changes the outlet. There is no way to remove every outlet of communication from her short of keeping her prisoner and that does not produce a result that is livable. Without social interaction she becomes very depressed and the other harming behaviors increase dramatically. The problem is that she doesn't see the problem -especially when she's engaging in the behavior- she sees the situation as her being lonely and needing to talk so she puts her phone number out there and then talks to the people her respond to her in the way they want her to respond. I know this is probably incomprehensible to most people but it makes perfect sense to her. I can't micromanage her forever and I don't just want to control her I want her to find her life to be happy enough to be worth living. In most ways she is a woman not a girl but the little person in her head who is supposed to let her know when things are inappropriate/wrong/diseased doesn't work. Hopefully, her psychologist will be able to do something for her soon. I just hope she can see the problem.
I just wanted to come back to this now that I have a little more time. You are so right when you say that taking away the texting just changes the outlet for her. I think you are onto something there in that you understand that the texting is a symptom of something bigger going on which desperately needs to be addressed. *But* exchanging sexually explicit messages with adult men is truly a safety issue. She is not a woman. She really is still just a girl, despite some alarming adult-like behaviors. The part of the brain responsible for judgement and impulse control continues to develop even past the teen years, which means that you have continue to protect her from some of her poor choices. So, I guess my point is--Yes. Definitely do address the bigger issue of why she is behaving this way. But, also please protect her in the mean time by taking away her texting abilities or whatever else you need to do to keep her safe. If she is lonely without texting, I'd try to address that as well. Does she not have friends at school? Is it because of her behaviors? Is there a group that the psychologist you're working with could suggest for her to build her social skills or learn appropriate ways to interact with other kids? In my area there are several groups which help kids work on social skills and she might end up finding a friend or two in a group like that. Good luck again...
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#11 of 33 Old 03-17-2010, 02:44 PM
 
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That is an interesting point Satori but she really could start with a daily workout for stress relief and go from there. Also while it's possible to tell a kid "you need to work out every day for your physical and mental health" it's another to dictate to a teen that they engage in elite training. I'm wondering how that would work out as a practical matter. Can you really make a kid swim doubles or will they just call DFACS from the school office and get the matter removed from your hands?
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#12 of 33 Old 03-17-2010, 03:12 PM
 
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Poppymama, many hugs to you. Sounds like you've gotten some good advice here.

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Can you really make a kid swim doubles or will they just call DFACS from the school office and get the matter removed from your hands?
What an interesting, great big 'what if'. Pigpokey, it's Poppymama's job to figure out how to tailor Satori's suggestion to her daughter's situation, if she so chooses, isn't it? Satori made a suggestion to help curb, not to single handedly cure, this issue. Based upon her own success. All she can do is offer her own observation. The OP can then do what she wants with the information.

Someone moved my effing cheese.
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#13 of 33 Old 03-19-2010, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much for all the advice. It was really helpful.

Satori- that actually makes a lot of sense and even though I would not be able to enforce that kind of activity I am going to start making heavy physical activity a nonnegotiable part of her week and see how it goes.

newbiemama09- I looked up that website and I'm going to talk to her psych about this next week when we see her.

APtoddlermama- I definitely think that the sex stuff is a maladaptive coping strategy. She has a very hard time processing stress.

My dd is homeschooled at this time because I wasn't able to send her to a school that was beneficial for her and she really needs close supervision by someone who understands her issues. She has great social skills and makes friends pretty easily but they can't fill the void. Texting is how all the kids communicate here so if I completely take away her phone she won't be able to maintain her social network, which is extremely important for her. Right now she has to have me unlock her texting when she needs to use it and I am reading all texts. I have contacted all older people she was talking to and told them they are not to communicate with her anymore. I also took her down to one internet location so it's easier for me to monitor and as luck would have it she is dating a 14 year old this week. Her psychologist specializes in adolescent care and seems to get the issues here but with our cruddy insurance it's very slow going. I'm hoping she will have some response for us at dd's appointment this week. I'm going to talk to her more about the sex issues dd is having. I think I will write it all down and give it to her since this is such a hard issue I freeze up when it's time to talk to other people about it.
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#14 of 33 Old 03-19-2010, 07:31 PM
 
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That is an interesting point Satori but she really could start with a daily workout for stress relief and go from there. Also while it's possible to tell a kid "you need to work out every day for your physical and mental health" it's another to dictate to a teen that they engage in elite training. I'm wondering how that would work out as a practical matter. Can you really make a kid swim doubles or will they just call DFACS from the school office and get the matter removed from your hands?
I didn't start off right away training that much, it was like an hour a day a couple days a week then I just kept going more and more. As for CPS, ever hear of the soccer moms ( or what ever there called now) of every sport out there? They push there kids hard and no one bats an eye. They even have boot camps for kids for this stuff, unless your causing the child serious harm CPS is a non issue for this or else they would be after all those soccer moms and dads (my cousin is a soccer dad, I actually feel sorry for his kids, he's pretty intense with there training but to them its just a fact of life and you do it. No choice in the matter.)

Seriously?
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#15 of 33 Old 03-29-2010, 10:07 AM
 
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My stepmother is seriously bipolar and a great friend of mine. If your dd does have this disorder she can still lead a happy and productive life and you can figure out solutions (meds, counseling etc etc) I have a 13 yr old and I feel deeply for your situation, but I think talking about the possibility of coping with an illness, along with symptom management like exercise etc, takes a lot of courage and strenth. Hang in there.
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#16 of 33 Old 04-08-2010, 03:53 AM
 
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::BIG HUGS:: What an impossible thing to be going through. When you talk about BPD are you talking about BiPolar Disorder? I would also seriously recommend talking to your daughter's therapist about Borderline Personality Disorder. With attention-seeking this constant and extreme, it's very possible that she has Borderline. I think your idea about writing down everything you want to tell the therapist is great. I do it because I'm forgetful, but it will work for your situation, too. It's really important for the mental health official to know as much as possible. You say that you're having trouble making progress because of crummy insurance. Is this because you need the appointments more often than your insurance is willing to grant them? Like they have a set "30 visits a year" or something? If that's the case, I would highly recommend looking into using county services. In my area they charge you on a sliding scale. You pay _____ for the year. That covers whatever the mental health providers decide that you need. Including all appointments and medications. Good luck and let us know how things are going!
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#17 of 33 Old 04-08-2010, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My dd is not quite 13, so way to young for a personality disorder diagnosis. Her diagnosis is bipolar NSI which also seems a little like a garbage can diagnosis but fits pretty well. She is very rapid cycling as seems to be common for adol. She has a form of medicaid and sees the psych every two weeks. The psychologist doesn't necessarily think she needs meds which leads me to believe she's not totally convinced of the diagnosis but I am pretty convinced so I'm trying to get her into a child psychiatrist for meds. I just flat out refuse to live with her for the next five years if she's not "altered" in some way. All the happiness is being sucked out of my life and even though it's because I am letting it...well what the hell am I supposed to do. RANT
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#18 of 33 Old 04-08-2010, 10:27 PM
 
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My dd is not quite 13, so way to young for a personality disorder diagnosis. Her diagnosis is bipolar NSI which also seems a little like a garbage can diagnosis but fits pretty well. She is very rapid cycling as seems to be common for adol. She has a form of medicaid and sees the psych every two weeks. The psychologist doesn't necessarily think she needs meds which leads me to believe she's not totally convinced of the diagnosis but I am pretty convinced so I'm trying to get her into a child psychiatrist for meds. I just flat out refuse to live with her for the next five years if she's not "altered" in some way. All the happiness is being sucked out of my life and even though it's because I am letting it...well what the hell am I supposed to do. RANT
A lot of people think it's unreliable to diagnose an adolescent with a personality disorder. They used to feel the same way about BiPolar disorder. However the most recent edition of DMS-IV is acknowleging that accurate diagnoses of BPD can be made in kids. I'm not trying to convince you that she has it. I don't know her. I just know from personal experience how BPD affects adolescent girls and how helpful it is to know exactly what you're up against. For us, the sooner we knew the better. Check out this link:

http://bpd.about.com/od/forfamilyand...a/bpdchild.htm

And like I said, I hope she doesn't have it. Just wanting you to know all of the possibilities. Good luck!
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#19 of 33 Old 04-09-2010, 05:44 PM
 
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My dd is not quite 13, so way to young for a personality disorder diagnosis. Her diagnosis is bipolar NSI which also seems a little like a garbage can diagnosis but fits pretty well. She is very rapid cycling as seems to be common for adol. She has a form of medicaid and sees the psych every two weeks. The psychologist doesn't necessarily think she needs meds which leads me to believe she's not totally convinced of the diagnosis but I am pretty convinced so I'm trying to get her into a child psychiatrist for meds. I just flat out refuse to live with her for the next five years if she's not "altered" in some way. All the happiness is being sucked out of my life and even though it's because I am letting it...well what the hell am I supposed to do. RANT

I am a 40 year old unschooling, belly dancing, artist-mama of one almost 8 year old. I just had brain surgery and blogging.jpg about it a bit because it's just so surreal.
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#20 of 33 Old 04-17-2010, 05:00 PM
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I had early onset bipolar disorder (I can remember my first manic episodes was age 12, but I was not dx'd until age 15). I was hypersexual. I had also been sexually abused and never dealt with it as a teen. I'm not saying that's what's going on in your daughter's case, though. Just mania alone can cause hypersexuality, add some hormones to that and you have a pretty explosive mix in your hands.

I don't know what you are supposed to do if they are saying your child doesn't need mes, though. Also, a psychologist said this? She's not qualified to make that call. Only a Psychiatrist (a specialized MD) is. I know you know that but it pisses me off when I see people making recommendations outside the scope of their field.

I KNOW bipolar exists in children. I know because I experienced it. I had delusional, grandiose thoughts with hallucinations more than once, as well as periods of severe, suicidal depression. I remember it starting around age 12, but the depression I know started way before then, I just remember that being my first marked manic episode.

I don't agree that exercise helps. I suppose it could for some people, but until I had medication NOTHING helped. I walked to and from school straight up and straight down a 1 mile hill. I did hardcore aerobics and running for an hour every day. I rode horses 5-7 days a week for 3 hours from age 15-17. I was still hypersexual. Meds helped a lot, though.
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#21 of 33 Old 04-19-2010, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you Talula Fairie-

I suppose that if I only saw my dd in a formal setting for an hour I wouldn't think she needed meds either. Home is where the hell is *sigh*. I am going to take her to a psychiatrist too, medicaid makes it all such a long trial. She spends most of her time (imo) in mixed states so it's hard to figure out what is going on. Do you mind if I ask how you changed as you grew older and if you were voraciously hungry during manic/mixed states.
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#22 of 33 Old 04-19-2010, 10:18 PM
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Thank you Talula Fairie-

I suppose that if I only saw my dd in a formal setting for an hour I wouldn't think she needed meds either. Home is where the hell is *sigh*. I am going to take her to a psychiatrist too, medicaid makes it all such a long trial. She spends most of her time (imo) in mixed states so it's hard to figure out what is going on. Do you mind if I ask how you changed as you grew older and if you were voraciously hungry during manic/mixed states.

A good psychiatrist will still be able to asses your child based on your reports and evaluating her, even if she's in a "good" period. If she's truly manic or depressed, it's unlikely that would get by the p-doc, though possible. They have ways of evaluating beyond surface behavior.

I have zero appetite when I am in a manic or mixed state. The only time my appetite was voracious was after being put on certain psych meds (zyprexa and respirdol being the worst offenders). But, everyone is different I suppose and a stark change in eating habits does suggest something is up.

What makes you think she is in a mixed state specifically? Have you checked out the DSM for bipolar and for bipolar episodes?

I'm not sure what you mean in terms of "how I changed." Um. I am Bipolar I as I said, and in those years (probably due to the abuse I was experiencing) I spent most of my time depressed. But I would have these periods of mania, sometimes hypomania, sometimes full blown mania, where I'd have energy, grandiose mood, even delusions and hallucinations. I remember this happening probably 2 or 3 times.

I think the mixed episodes started around age 13 or so (guessing) and they full blown manias started at 12 though I didn't have another until 14 (had 2 that year) and then I had another at 15 when I was finally diagnosed. That was to date one of the most severe manias I've ever had. The last full blown mania with dellusions was at 17, which I think was a rebound mania due to my dad and step mom encouraging me to go off medication after I moved in with them.


Most of my memories of those years, actually I'd say like my entire childhood but especially 12-18 or so, are of deep, dark, bone crushing depression. I was sad all the time. Even when I was manic there was still an edge of sadness to it. I think that's why in my adult life I am always so med complaint, I hate being manic....I don't get "happy manias" for the most part.

I'm not sure I'd be a good example to you becuase like I said, I was in an incredibly abusive situation. I think really, my bipolar got more and more severe until about age 14 or so when it leveled off. It has been less severe since moving out of my mom's and then my dad and step mom's house, for several reasons. Firstly, I don't let it get that bad. I have taken myself to the ER more than once when I had to. Secondly, I went to therapy and stayed on meds save for the time period when I was having children/nursing. Thirdly, I have a stable home life. Given all those conditions my condition is usually -not ALWAYS, but usually- manageable.
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#23 of 33 Old 05-18-2010, 12:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry Talula, I missed your post. I think she's in mixed states because she is completely different people different times of the day and the "personalities" don't seem to logically correlate to what's going on. She's spiteful and vicious, depressed and hates life, and then is stick, sacharin sweet. It's awful. I am at the point where I'm so angry at the hell I am going through with her and what it takes away from the other members of the family that I feel like I don't like her. When she goes into the sticky sweet phase and wants to kiss my cheek and make babyish noises my skin crawls.
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#24 of 33 Old 05-18-2010, 01:19 AM
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That sounds like rapid cycling to me, not a mixed episode. Mixed episodes are when you feel depressed and manic simultaneously.
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#25 of 33 Old 05-18-2010, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#26 of 33 Old 05-18-2010, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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ok. Thanks. Often she says she's sad and feels sick and is pacing the house but can't remember what she was planning to do the minute before. I'm trying to get her to a psychiatrist but it will be months. There are no docs seeing medicaid under 18 here.
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#27 of 33 Old 05-18-2010, 03:33 AM
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I hope you get it figured out :
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#28 of 33 Old 05-21-2010, 03:44 AM
 
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I was and still am Bipolar. As I have grown older, it is MUCH more managable. As a teen, not so much. I think there are many factors as to why it is more managable/ less severe.
I became very educated about my illness, after I got over the whole "nothing is wrong with me" attitude. I learned how I cycled and what were possible "triggers" and warning signs of both my depression and mania. I would have long cycles, lasting weeks, maybie months at a time. After i learned to pick up on these signs, I found tools that worked for me to lessen the effects of the depression or mania, sometimes this ment upping my meds, other times it ment extra counciling or extra activity to keep my mind in check. I agree with the pp who suggested intense physical activity. I became almost obsessive at times when it came to my activitys, but it was a healthy obbsesion.
Another factor is the hormonal one. As i have grown, my hormones have leveled out some. Something that helped me as a teen was birth control. Might want to speak to her Dr about that. I think these days they have BC that helps level out all the hormones more so then BC from when i was a teen.
I was hypersexual as a teen, starting from a young age. I hid it well from my family and friends. I had similar behavior to your daughter, though we didnt have texting, but internet chat rooms. You are more than welcome to PM me for more on that particular subject, although I dont have tons of advice per say, just know the behavior and what triggered it for me.
I also got into drugs a bit. Not wanting to scare you, just speaking from experience. It was my way of self medicating, and i didnt do it for plesure per say. Now that I know my problem, I look back to the worst times I had, and I am able to say, hey now I know why i did this or that. I used to be shameful of things i did, but now I know that i was trying to cope with life the way i knew how. I think that is the key. Finding alternate, non self destructive ways to cope. I think the teen years are the worst when it comes to this ilness, but can also be the time to really learn to deal with it. Like i said, you are more than welcome to PM me for any reason, I might not have the perfect solution, but i might be able to offer more insight as to what/ why she might be doing. Also if she ever need someone to talk to I would be more than willing to listen. Sometimes its nice to have someone thats been there, done that and knows what it feels like, that isnt going to judge you. Hope I have been helpfull and best of luck.
Also just wanted to say, , It takes a special parent to deal with someone with these issues. There will be very tough days, but as you learn, things get better, and the good days start to take over again.
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#29 of 33 Old 05-21-2010, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much!
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#30 of 33 Old 05-21-2010, 08:13 PM
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I don't think that an obsession with physical activity is always healthy. It certainly wasn't for me and I'm still paying the physical price from the years of abuse to my body.
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