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#1 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I had a conversation with a person today and she said that marijuana caused schizophrenia.  

 

I tried looking it up online, and lo and behold, whether or not this true seems murky.

 

I have read:

-marijuana can cause schizophrenia

-marijuana may trigger schizophrenia is those who are predisposed

-marijuana may make psychotic episodes worse if you have schizophrenia….

 

So, I am a little lost….anyone know the truth or have strong evidence for one claim or another?

 

_________

FWIW, I do not use MJ, I have used it twice in my life, I am not schizophrenic.  This is purely a general knowledge type question.


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#2 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 03:22 PM
 
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I don't know the truth, but I did have a roommate with schizophrenia, and there was a very strong improvement in his symptoms when he quit smoking pot. OTOH, I've known dozens, possibly hundreds, of pot smokers who never exhibited any signs of schizophrenia at all. I'm inclined to suspect it can trigger it in some people, but I have no idea if it's true or not.


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#3 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 03:27 PM
 
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That sounds right.  Similar to some kinds of cancer.


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#4 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 03:28 PM
 
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My doctor told me there are many many many substances which "may trigger schizophrenia"... in people who have it but don't know it yet... but they don't actually cause schizophrenia. 

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#5 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 03:53 PM
 
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well the thing is M is not just 'one' plant. the way it is 'harvested/grown' (is that the term) defines the qualities it can have. i know some who have been paranoid smoking it. and others for whom the opposite has happened. 

 

but i agree. it cant 'cause' schizo. symptoms yes. 

 

i think the lifestyle here and society causes schizo. but that's a whole 'nother thread.


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#6 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 05:44 PM
 
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Dunno for sure, but I once worked with a woman who was very strongly anti-marijuana, because she'd worked in a mental health ward and was convinced schizophrenia had either been caused or triggered by MJ consumption.


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#7 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 08:02 PM
 
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Dunno for sure, but I once worked with a woman who was very strongly anti-marijuana, because she'd worked in a mental health ward and was convinced schizophrenia had either been caused or triggered by MJ consumption.

 

That reminds me... I once worked with someone who warned everyone never buy a Phillips tv because they once worked for Phillips authorized repair shop and all the broken tvs that came back were Phillips lol (that really happened)

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#8 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 07:07 AM
 
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There is a fair bit in the literature about marijuana worsening symptoms of schizophrenia and triggering a first episode but I've never read anything suggesting that marijuana was a cause.

 

anecdotally, DH and I both work in ED and most of us have looked after people having a psychotic episode triggered by either first use of MJ or unusually heavy usage or from a different source.

 

im on my phone but if you google scholar marijuana + psychosis you will find some articles.


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#9 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 07:46 AM
 
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There are a couple of difficulties in teasing out correlations between marijuana usage and mental health issues.

 

One is that it's likely that sufferers will often self-medicate and marijuana is a fairly accessible drug to help them do that.

 

Second is that many mental health problems like schizophrenia start to manifest in late teen/early adulthood. Exactly the same time frame that a lot of young adults start experimenting with recreational substances. It's a little like suggesting that ice cream sales cause violent crime because they both rates increase at the same time - during hot weather.  

 

Personally, despite these explanations, I don't dismiss the potential linkage. I've cautioned my DC about the possible link between marijuana and mental health problems.  For a lot of reasons, I think responsible marijuana usage is less problematic (and more fun) than alcohol use, although I think smoking anything is a bad idea for lung and heart health.  I also think that there's a host of arbitrary historic reasons why one is illegal and the other is legal. I would still rather my DC didn't indulge at this age while their brains are still maturing. 

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#10 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 08:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree View Post

There are a couple of difficulties in teasing out correlations between marijuana usage and mental health issues.

 

One is that it's likely that sufferers will often self-medicate and marijuana is a fairly accessible drug to help them do that.

 

Second is that many mental health problems like schizophrenia start to manifest in late teen/early adulthood. Exactly the same time frame that a lot of young adults start experimenting with recreational substances. It's a little like suggesting that ice cream sales cause violent crime because they both rates increase at the same time - during hot weather.  

 

Personally, despite these explanations, I don't dismiss the potential linkage. I've cautioned my DC about the possible link between marijuana and mental health problems.  For a lot of reasons, I think responsible marijuana usage is less problematic (and more fun) than alcohol use, although I think smoking anything is a bad idea for lung and heart health.  I also think that there's a host of arbitrary historic reasons why one is illegal and the other is legal. I would still rather my DC didn't indulge at this age while their brains are still maturing. 

 

I agree with everything you said... The only reason it's illegal is because of how the government profits. The timber and paper industries have been paying for decades to keep hemp illegal. 

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#11 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 08:55 AM
 
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While you're at it, look into the connection between gluten and schizophrenia. Shocking!

I don't know anything about marijuana and schizophrenia, so I can't add anything helpful--although I do like the post by ollyoxenfree.


 
 
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#12 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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im on my phone but if you google scholar marijuana + psychosis you will find some articles.

I did just that.

 

Here are a few links I thought were interesting:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2012/12/26/the-marijuana-psychosis-connection-goes-both-ways-in-teens/

 

"Some researchers have framed the issue as a chicken-or-egg conundrum, wondering whether pot smoking leads to psychosis or whether underlying psychosis makes one more likely to smoke pot.A new study set out to determine whether it’s one or the other – or both. And indeed the answer is that it seems to work both ways."

 

I thought this one was interesting as well:

http://www.consultantlive.com/display/article/10168/2017327


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#13 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree View Post

  For a lot of reasons, I think responsible marijuana usage is less problematic (and more fun) than alcohol use, although I think smoking anything is a bad idea for lung and heart health.  I also think that there's a host of arbitrary historic reasons why one is illegal and the other is legal. I would still rather my DC didn't indulge at this age while their brains are still maturing. 

 

This is what I used to believe…I still might - I am trying to come to terms with MJ possibly triggering mental illness.  It is new information for me. 

 

I think truly responsible alcohol use is benign (truly responsible  to me does not included young or even middle aged adolescents imbibing - we know earlier use of alcohol is linked to addiction, but we do not know if that is because people who have the potential to be alcoholic just start earlier, or if early alcohol use may rewire the brain somewhat)  It look like truly responsible marijuana use may not be benign or may not be benign until the common period for developing schizophrenia is passed.  While reading up on this topic, some article suggested 23, but I am not sure what is behind that age.  

 

This article said most males had onset between 15-24, while women were 25-34 - so maybe that is why they were suggesting delaying use until post 23?

http://www.consultantlive.com/display/article/10168/2017327

 

There seem to be a fair number of other risk factors for schizophrenia (genetics is one) so maybe MJ usage and whether or not you would be okay with MJ usage might somewhat come down to your specific situation.  


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#14 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 10:10 AM
 
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I don't think that you are going to avoid triggering schizophrenia if you have it, by abstaining from smoking pot.

It will just be that something else is the trigger.

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#15 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think that you are going to avoid triggering schizophrenia if you have it, by abstaining from smoking pot.

It will just be that something else is the trigger.

Maybe.  I have no issues with minimizing triggers, though, particularly if there are windows of time when someone is mostly likely to be triggered.


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#16 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 11:07 AM
 
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I don't think that you are going to avoid triggering schizophrenia if you have it, by abstaining from smoking pot.

It will just be that something else is the trigger.

 

In practical, real life terms, you are probably right.  But it's one of those things that can't be proven, at least not yet.  How many people have lived their entire lives not having manifested schizophrenia, in spite of carrying the genetic predisposition for it?  We don't know; the gene(s) that cause it haven't been identified (yet), so no one can be screened for it.  Did they dodge the bullet because they never smoked pot?  We can't know.

 

Perhaps someday it'll be possible to be screened for schizophrenia genes.  It's already possible to do so with some sorts of breast cancer.  Some women carry a particular gene that indicates their chance of getting bc is substantially higher than the rest of the population.  The hope is that certain behaviors can help lessen the chance of getting cancer -like eating healthy food and staying fit. 

 

 

Quote:
determine whether it’s one or the other – or both. And indeed the answer is that it seems to work both ways."

 

This makes sense. 


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#17 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 11:12 AM
 
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i agree minimising triggers would be great. 

 

but could that be a reality. i am not sure. it will be dd who has to decide.

 

for instance dd's MJ is sugar. in any form - healthy or unhealthy. makes her manic. ODD. depressed. moody. give it a name and it will fit. so much so that even her candy eating friends will watch out for her and help her not eat so much. 


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#18 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 06:58 PM
 
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Yes, minimizing triggers is good, I don't disagree there.

And I hope if there is a family history of psych problems, that is motivation for teens and young adults to abstain from drug use if it's a potential trigger. (I have to believe that if MJ is a trigger, then other more intensely mind/mood altering drugs are as well...)

But teenagers aren't always the best decision makers :/

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#19 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 07:30 PM
 
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But teenagers aren't always the best decision makers :/

unless their situation is so disastrous that the only way they can survive is to self medicate in whatever form they deem necessary. 

 

i think THAT is the biggest problem. self medication when no other option is out there. 


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#20 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 10:10 PM
 
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Self-medication is definitely an issue. I didn't consciously realize it until years later, but I drank and toked my way through high school, because I was suicidal. Alcohol made me...not care as much? I don't know how to describe it, but that's close. Pot made me numb. I wasn't really happy, but I wasn't daydreaming about bleeding to death in a bathtub, either. I quit smoking pot almost as soon as I got out of high school (took a lot of pressure off me), and cut my drinking way back around the same time.


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#21 of 27 Old 03-29-2013, 10:37 AM
 
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There is a fair bit in the literature about marijuana worsening symptoms of schizophrenia and triggering a first episode but I've never read anything suggesting that marijuana was a cause.

 

anecdotally, DH and I both work in ED and most of us have looked after people having a psychotic episode triggered by either first use of MJ or unusually heavy usage or from a different source.

 

Interesting. I smoked pot a little bit in high school/college (not that often -- probably 20-30 times over the course of 2-3 years), and this one time I got it from a different source than usual, smoked way more than usual, and had my first panic attack, triggering panic disorder that lasted for about a year. I was 20 at the time, a very common age for mental illness to present, so maybe something else would have triggered it around the same time anyway, but yeah, for me it was definitely linked to pot usage. 

 

That said, I support the legalization of marijuana. I will never ever smoke it again, and I will encourage my kids not to smoke it, just like I will encourage them not to smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol while underage, but I'd be totally fine with legalizing it and taxing its sale. 


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#22 of 27 Old 03-29-2013, 03:54 PM
 
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That said, I support the legalization of marijuana. I will never ever smoke it again, and I will encourage my kids not to smoke it, just like I will encourage them not to smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol while underage, but I'd be totally fine with legalizing it and taxing its sale. 

 

This...exactly this.

 

After about 2-3 years of moderate-heavy pot smoking, I started to experience some mild paranoia when under the influence. It never carried over to when I wasn't high, but it did get worse and worse. Shortly after grad, I decided the paranoid feelings were worse than my depression, so I quit (mostly - did have it very occasionally for a few more years), and discovered that I was no longer depressed, anyway. I had friend who smoked a lot more than me, and never experienced anything like that at all.


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#23 of 27 Old 03-30-2013, 02:15 PM
 
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I wonder if this is at the root of the paranoid history teacher who is full of conspiracy theories, who you just know smoked a lot of pot back in the day.  lol.gif  What, you didn't have that teacher? 


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#24 of 27 Old 03-31-2013, 09:13 AM
 
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I have not read the rest of the thread, but this subject comes up in "Gut and Psychology Syndrome",  aka GAPS. Poor gut health, or gut dysbiosis in a person will predispose them to schizophrenia from marijuana. The same logic applies to adverse vaccine reactions. Those with gut dysbiosis  metabolize the toxic onslaught poorly causing brain damage (same logic for autism, adhd, and even eating disorders)  

 

A person with good gut health will not get schizophrenia from marijuana.

 

Yes, i knew  of people who  suffered this as a teenager.

 

Dr Natasha Campbell warns that young  children with symptoms of gut dysbiosis (poor digestion, adhd, autism, sensory processing) are candidates for addiction and  drug (marijuana) induced brain damage in adolescence....

 

 

sorry if i have repeated anything said upthread...

 

 

sort of makes sense to me-i always wondered why some people had more addictive personalities, or responded to drugs differently, and now i  think that the answer lies in the state of their gut health....

 

 

 

 

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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I had a conversation with a person today and she said that marijuana caused schizophrenia.  

 

I tried looking it up online, and lo and behold, whether or not this true seems murky.

 

I have read:

-marijuana can cause schizophrenia

-marijuana may trigger schizophrenia is those who are predisposed

-marijuana may make psychotic episodes worse if you have schizophrenia….

 

So, I am a little lost….anyone know the truth or have strong evidence for one claim or another?

 

_________

FWIW, I do not use MJ, I have used it twice in my life, I am not schizophrenic.  This is purely a general knowledge type question.

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#25 of 27 Old 03-31-2013, 07:49 PM
 
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Moving to mental health


 
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#26 of 27 Old 04-02-2013, 05:33 PM
 
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This is very interesting. My partner's brother has schizophrenia and is a very heavy/daily smoker. His smoking is open and his mother has been trying to get him to cut back/quit for years. The mother is a drug and alcohol abuse therapist, too. YIKES!!

 


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#27 of 27 Old 04-03-2013, 07:16 PM
 
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Most of my mentally ill acquaintances admit to self-medicating with pot in an attempt to at least dull the suicidal ideations down a little.  Mental health medications suck.  They all have bad side effects and the mentally ill aren't known to be extraordinarily med-compliant anyway.  So as ollyoxenfree stated, it's really difficult to determine exactly what the link between schizophrenia and pot is.  


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