Weaning my baby and what do you replace nursing with? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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*Please dont flame me for weaning my baby. I know alot of people on here are baby led weaning and thats totally fine but for us this is what we have to do. Every family/ every child is different and we are doing whats right for us/my daughter at the moment.*

I am slowly weaning my almost 11 month old. She was nursing
when she woke up in the morning
after her morning nap
after her afternoon nap
bedtime

Last week I stopped nursing her after her afternoon nap. Instead I gave her 2-3 ounces of watered down apple juice and either 1/2 banana or some home made graham cracker. She did totally fine. Never even wanted to nurse.
Now next week Im going to start working on not nursing after her morning nap. My goal is to drop a nursing session once every 2 weeks.
My question is- what do you replace the nursing sessions with? I dont want to give her juice and crackers both times, should I give her solids or just stick with a bottle of juice for now? We dont drink milk in my house so I really dont want to give her cows milk.
She eats veggies and fruit purees at breakfast, lunch and supper and she also eats bananas, crackers, green beans whole, peas whole, chicken chunks whole, Oatmeal, yogurt. So should I make the afternoon snack more food and use the apple juice bottle for her morning snack now?

edited to add: She doesnt like chunks of fresh fruit, only pureed. Also she doesnt like avacado.
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#2 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 04:07 PM
 
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It is my understanding that children weaned at 1 year need to be receiving some kind of milk or formula. It is 'unnatural' to wean so young, so some kind of substitute nutrition needs to be taking the place of breastmilk, I believe that the rule is, under a year old formula should be the substitute, but I'm sure you'll get better information then what I can offer.. I would consider talking to a ped. to get their opinion.

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#3 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 04:38 PM
 
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Here is an article from kellymom about weaning and alternative milk. Although she mentions that cows milk is not necessary for breastmilk replacement, I would think that a baby that young will need some sort of very nutrient packed replacement. I'm sure you have your reasons for weaning, and aren't looking for support in that aspect, but honestly watered down applejuice isn't a great alternative. Its just empty calories and sugar.

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#4 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 05:02 PM
 
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At that age you should be replacing your milk with either formula or another milk (before a year I'd personally choose formula) Babies that age aren't developed enough to be getting much nutrition from solids yet and I agree with pp about juice being basically sugar and water. Look at it this way, if you were to stop eating say dinner, what would be a good replacement? Not juice or crackers, you'd want something with equal or similar nutrition. I believe the AAP says that at a year a baby should be getting 75% of their nutrition from formula or breast milk so you can use that as a guide. I'm not sure of the % and a quick google didn't find the answer for me, but it's a high %, well above 50%. I'll look a bit more later and edit if I find it.

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#5 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 05:59 PM
 
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What about a grain? Quinoa or oatmeal? Tofu? You could grind it and slowly thicken it. As long as she is getting a good AM and PM feeding, I might not replace it with formula but I'm not sure.
http://www.wholesomebabyfood.com/sol...ntholdbaby.htm
I love this website. Great ideas for snacks and appropriate meals for all babies.
It sounds like you are slowly weaning and she will be one by the time you are finished.

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#6 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 06:16 PM
 
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we are in the same spot, my DS is also 11 mos, and we are weaning-- not by choice. We replacing nursing sessions with bottles of formula.

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#7 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 06:22 PM
 
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Grain would not be an appropriate human milk substitute and neither would apple juice, whether watered down or full strength.

Before 12 mos, you must replace human milk with formula. I would even recommend supplying formula until up to 24 months, since babies are supposed to be nursed at least that long.

If you don't want to use, or can't afford, artifical formula, you may wish to try goat milk, with or without added supplements.

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#8 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 10:30 PM
 
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The main issue is dietary fat. I would want a baby to be on some form of milk-- whether a milk, soy, or hypoallergenic formula, whole cow's milk, or goat's milk, or something with a similar nutritional profile-- at least until 2 years, and honestly, much longer would be best. If I was dead-set against milk, I'd consider other fat-rich foods like whole-milk yogurt, egg yolks, liver, good organic butter, extra virgin olive oil, avocado, and fatty fish.

Juice is not an appropriate replacement for breastmilk. I wouldn't give juice at all at this age, or if I did, I'd limit it to 4 ounces a day or less, just for fun. It has no fat, no protein, no vitamins and minerals other than C, and is loaded with sugars (natural ones, if you're using 100% juice, but it's still sugar.)

I also would limit starchy stuff like crackers, especially if they're not fully whole-grain. They replace the more nutrient-rich foods that kids need to grow optimally.

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#9 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 10:56 PM
 
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Most things I've read say that babies/toddlers need a full fat milk for two full years, so if breastmilk is being removed, it should be replaced with formula or cow's milk or goat's milk or the like.

-Angela
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#10 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus.blossom View Post
I'm sure you have your reasons for weaning, and aren't looking for support in that aspect, but honestly watered down applejuice isn't a great alternative. Its just empty calories and sugar.
Its pure apple juice, no added sugars.

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Originally Posted by RoViMama View Post
It sounds like you are slowly weaning and she will be one by the time you are finished.
Yes she will be. She is 11 months now.

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Originally Posted by Llyra View Post

Juice is not an appropriate replacement for breastmilk. I wouldn't give juice at all at this age, or if I did, I'd limit it to 4 ounces a day or less, just for fun. It has no fat, no protein, no vitamins and minerals other than C, and is loaded with sugars (natural ones, if you're using 100% juice, but it's still sugar.)

I also would limit starchy stuff like crackers, especially if they're not fully whole-grain. They replace the more nutrient-rich foods that kids need to grow optimally.
She only gets 2 oz of juice a day. And the crackers are homemade by me. Not store bought.

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Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Most things I've read say that babies/toddlers need a full fat milk for two full years, so if breastmilk is being removed, it should be replaced with formula or cow's milk or goat's milk or the like.

-Angela
We dont drink cows milk here because honestly I dont think it is good for you. Not the kind you buy in the stores. Im sure some of you will argue this fact but thats my feelings about it.
I have goat milk available I just got contact with a farmer that will give me some to use.

Yes, I do have my reasons for weaning her and have talked with her Ped, and 2 of my LLL leaders and they all said I DO NOT Have to give her formula in replacement of it or cows milk. She is getting fruits and veggies and sometimes chicken at every meal and getting her grains at snack time.
I am just looking for something to replace it with.
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#11 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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adding this from Kellymom.com

Why I dont think Cows milk is a good choice for us- - -
Cow's milk is more specific to a baby cow than a baby human. Cow's milk formula is based on cow's milk but has been engineered to be closer to human milk (still a ways off, but closer). Many infants still have problems with cow's milk formula (allergies, GI problems, etc.). Babies who are exposed to cow's milk before their first birthday are more likely to be anemic, have diarrhea or vomiting, and/or experience an allergic reaction (the proteins in milk are more numerous than those in other milk products, such as the yogurt). The excessive protein load in cow's milk can also overload a baby's kidneys. It is deficient in vitamins C, E, and copper. It is harder to digest as well, often causing intestinal blood loss. A number of studies have also indicated that early introduction of cow's milk may contribute to the development of Insulin-Dependent Diabetes Mellitus.
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#12 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:21 PM
 
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Moving to Life with a Babe. You might also want to post in the Nutrition forum.

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#13 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Moving to Life with a Babe. You might also want to post in the Nutrition forum.
Thanks!
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#14 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:26 PM
 
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I don't care why or that you're weaning. But a child that young needs either formula or some kind of milk. Some babies have problems with milk but you don't know that your baby will. Most do fine. I can't think of anything else that would provide the amount of calories and fats that a child this young needs to thrive. Certainly not crackers, homemade or otherwise.
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#15 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:29 PM
 
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OP you are right to be concerned about giving cow milk to your human child. Cow milk is designed for calves. But your child is a mammal and therefore needs milk in infancy and early childhood. The primary food at this age needs to be milk, and if it's not milk produced by human breasts, it needs to be milk prduced by the breast of some animal. By not providing milk, from whatever species, the LOs brain will not be able to develop properly. I think it's pretty crappy that dr's and LLL leaders are giving you inaccurate information. Good luck finding a better-informed care provider!

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#16 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:33 PM
 
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I'm curious about whether your Ped or LLL leader recommended anything to feed her with in replacement for breastmilk?

Another thought of mine is maybe juicing fresh veggies/fruits that way you are getting a lot of nutrients into her, rather than pasteurized empty juice. Perhaps adding some avocado or coconut butter or oil for fat, or even a protein powder (rice and pea? or goatmilk powder?) to make it into a smoothie.

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#17 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OP you are right to be concerned about giving cow milk to your human child. Cow milk is designed for calves. But your child is a mammal and therefore needs milk in infancy and early childhood. The primary food at this age needs to be milk, and if it's not milk produced by human breasts, it needs to be milk prduced by the breast of some animal. By not providing milk, from whatever species, the LOs brain will not be able to develop properly. I think it's pretty crappy that dr's and LLL leaders are giving you inaccurate information. Good luck finding a better-informed care provider!
I beg your pardon but we love our care provider. She is very awesome.

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I don't care why or that you're weaning. But a child that young needs either formula or some kind of milk. Some babies have problems with milk but you don't know that your baby will. Most do fine. I can't think of anything else that would provide the amount of calories and fats that a child this young needs to thrive. Certainly not crackers, homemade or otherwise.
And if you both read my last post I wrote:
I have goat milk available I just got contact with a farmer that will give me some to use.
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#18 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus.blossom View Post
I'm curious about whether your Ped or LLL leader recommended anything to feed her with in replacement for breastmilk?

Another thought of mine is maybe juicing fresh veggies/fruits that way you are getting a lot of nutrients into her, rather than pasteurized empty juice. Perhaps adding some avocado or coconut butter or oil for fat, or even a protein powder (rice and pea? or goatmilk powder?) to make it into a smoothie.
Thats what I do, juice her fruits for juices.
My LLL gave me a few choices and my Ped told me what she thinks is acceptable and said she left it up to me as obviously I am a great parent considering my daughter is in perfect health.
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#19 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:50 PM
 
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Hey all,
I just wanted to give my input here! My son is 5 months old and unfortunately I have somewhat of a low supply (I've been working hard to bring it back up and luckily I;ve had some luck! Seems to be improving!).

Anyway, we do supplement for about 2 feedings a day (sometimes 1 and sometimes 3, depending on how much I am able to pump while at work). I didn't feel comfortable with any kind of commercial formula, personally. I just felt that I wanted him to have something real. I'm not saying this would work for everyone and I understand that for some babies formula does bcome necessary...just getting that out of the way. We give him local, organic goat's milk with added stuff. Floradix Children's vitamins and FloraBaby Probiotics. I also give him egg yolk every other day (not the whites! those are known to potentially be allergy-provoking!) mashed well and mixed with either breast milk or goat's milk, served warm. I give him the egg yolk because of the iron. Goat's milk doesn't contain any so I think this is important! I use only organic egss with dha and omega's.

I'm in no way a dr or anything but or pedi, who is very popular around these parts it seems, is fine with it as long as his diet is mostly breastmilk (it is). I feel like if I wasn't going to be nursing at all though I might use formula only because it really is packed with nutrients. However at 11 months it might not be necessary...I'm not sure.

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#20 of 65 Old 09-01-2010, 11:56 PM
 
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Personally, I'd replace breastmilk with formula for anyone under 18-24 months. There are soy and grain based options available, as well as organic options and goat-based options, and some people even choose to make their own (which has been the focus of many debates).
Formula may not be the most "natural" option available, but when weaning early, my personal opinion (since you asked) is that it's the best replacement option when breastmilk isn't available, until 18 months, at least.

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#21 of 65 Old 09-02-2010, 12:05 AM
 
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Its pure apple juice, no added sugars.




Well, just because it doesn't have added sugar, doesn't mean it isn't sugar. There's very little nutritional value in fruit juice. That said, I don't think a couple of oz of watered down juice a day is a big problem for a 1 year old. It only becomes a problem if it's replacing food that does pack a nutritional/caloric/fatty punch. So, I don't think it's a problem to replace former nursing sessions with different kind of snack, but that nutrition has to be made up in other places. If I had an under two-ish year old that wasn't breastfeeding, I would go with a milk based formula, preferably organic. Even toddlers that aren't picky and eat a varied diet tend to have nutritional gaps and since their bodies aren't made to be taking all of their nutrients from food, it's a very hard thing to accomplish. A formula of some sort helps fill in those gaps. Barring that, I would go with a full fat milk of some sort. If you have access to goat milk, especially if you can get organic goat milk, and if your daughter will drink it, that's probably the best choice for you if you won't use formula.
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#22 of 65 Old 09-02-2010, 12:24 AM
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i think somebody else already mentioned it but you just have to keep thinking to yourself: fats and proteins, fats and proteins.
i'm no expert or dr. but milks and formulas satisfy both these needs really easily.

so....if you want to skip those and focus on solids or even if you do end up using the goat's milk it's still good to keep in mind. fruits and veggies are great and essential but it's easy to get hung up on them and miss the fats and proteins. you said you do chicken. you can add fats easily by cooking or coating other foods in butter or olive oil. coconut milk is great....avocado....eggs....
i even coat dd's fruits like strawberries, blueberries in homemade balsamic just to get that extra kick of fats with the olive oil.

trust me, i know it's confusing. we just started daycare at 12 months now and i'm still not sure what i'm doing about those 2 daytime/nap liquid feedings. dd eats a good amount of solids...regular people food and for now we're doing formula but not quite sure how to proceed.

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#23 of 65 Old 09-02-2010, 12:42 AM
 
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My opinion is that you should replace breast-feeding with formula until at least 18-24mo. I do not believe that babies should get cows milk as a substitute (unless your baby has suddenly become a baby cow). Formula is for baby humans and they need it until they can eat an entire diet of solids. Good luck.

ETA: Dr. Mercola also has a recipe for an all natural homemade baby formula. You'd have to check his website, but you basically take raw cow or goat milk and add a bunch of ingredients.

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#24 of 65 Old 09-02-2010, 12:56 AM
 
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Like others if I was weaning my under 18 month old I would either give her formula (which my children personally will not drink) or some kind of milk. If they won't take either Ill make sure she has plenty of nutrient dense/fatty food. Juice and crackers aren't nutrient dense and don't make up for the fat in breastmilk.
I got pregnant with DD2 when DD1 was 14 months old, she got organic milk or soy milk depending on where I was and lots of whole foods (good fats, meats, tons of veggies etc). Around 2 I started her with vitamins (I know some people don't like vitamins on this board) because she became more picky and I was worried about her nutrition. She also tantum nursed so when my milk came in when she was 22 months she started nursing several times a day again.
I got pregnant with this baby when DD2 was around 18 months old. I still nurse her several times a day but my supply is pretty much dried up so I make sure she gets plenty of high nutrient/calorie food and plenty of good fat to make up for the fact she isn't getting breastmilk. She will probably also tantum nurse if she doesn't wean herself before this one is due in Feb.

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#25 of 65 Old 09-02-2010, 01:02 AM
 
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I agree with formula until as close to 2 years as possible, if you are weaning. Whole cow's milk or goats milk would be my next choices, personally. I wouldn't replace nursing with food and juice, unless milk was also included in the daily diet. So, if you do go ahead and get an adequate supply of goat's milk from your source and your DD drinks it frequently - then I could see using finger foods or water in a cup at times during the day where she used to nurse.

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#26 of 65 Old 09-02-2010, 07:59 AM
 
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In my opinion, juice and crackers should not replace wholesome breastmilk in a baby's diet. I agree with other posters who say that if you are weaning the baby you should look to formula first. If you refuse to go that route, I guess goat's milk would be the next best option.

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#27 of 65 Old 09-02-2010, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for all your answers.
I am weaning due to health issues with myself, low supply that keeps getting lower and my daughter bitting me while nursing more then eating. I understand that on this board child led weaning and nursing til they are 2 or so is the norm and I think thats great for those of you who can. All I ask for is you dont judge me for what I have to do for us. You may think I am dumb and have no idea what I am doing but I assure you I am very well educated and have read every baby book on the planet. I have a very natural minded mother and my ped is very AP parenting friendly. Thank you for you concerns but I assure you my daughter is in very good hands.
I really honestly am very against formula, I understand it might be a good choice but I use to babysit and I myself have seen time and time again what formula does to babies. I refuse to put my baby through that.
I do have goats milk I will replace the feedings with. What do you think of organic cows milk? I think my health food store has the horizons brand. Would that be healthier then whole cows milk in a pinch??
And just FYI- I am only replacing her feedings now with 2 oz of juice until I could get ahold of something else to replace it with. I did not intend to only give her juice!
Also one more question- How often a day should she get goats milk in a bottle? I was thinking when she wakes up and before bed? Is that enough for one day for her or do I need to add more? (of course Im meaning this schedule for once she is fully weaned. During the process of weaning I will transition her over and give her bottles of goats milk during her normal feeding times.)
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#28 of 65 Old 09-02-2010, 09:31 AM
 
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Mrscompgeek just wanted to let you know how well you are handling the answers you are being given. Food is probably the one thing people feel the most passionate about and if you tell people that you don't agree with what they are doing it can get pretty ugly.

That being said, I think what people are saying is the fat/protein needs to be addressed. Cows milk has so much more protein than human milk because its meant to raise cows not humans (you know this) so good for you on findimg fresh goat milk if you want to substitute with it.

Have you considered coconut water? Fresh from coconuts would be best but there are some good packaged brands you could find online or at a hfs. It has a lot of the same properties as mamas milk.

Also, about the juice - juicing a few nonsweet fruits and root veggies with celery is so nutritious. I agree store bought juice is void of most nutrition once they heat it up. This could be a good addition . Also if she is ok with beans, a hummus might help fill a protein/fat meal.

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#29 of 65 Old 09-02-2010, 09:37 AM
 
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My dd stalled in growth when I was pregnant with ds. Because she was only 14 months old and I wasn't sure about my supply, we supplemented her diet with goat's milk and smoothies made with varying combinations of almond butter, avocado, banana (for sweetness), and full-fat coconut milk. Turns out my supply was fine, she just grows in plateaus and leaps. But after doing a lot of research and checking in with the various care providers in our lives, I felt good about those additions to her diet.
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#30 of 65 Old 09-02-2010, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for that!! I appreciate it. Like I said, I totally understand that not every family is the same thus not every family parents the same way. Not even every child is the same! This is my choice and all I ask is not to be judged.

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Originally Posted by tzs View Post
i think somebody else already mentioned it but you just have to keep thinking to yourself: fats and proteins, fats and proteins.
i'm no expert or dr. but milks and formulas satisfy both these needs really easily.

so....if you want to skip those and focus on solids or even if you do end up using the goat's milk it's still good to keep in mind. fruits and veggies are great and essential but it's easy to get hung up on them and miss the fats and proteins. you said you do chicken. you can add fats easily by cooking or coating other foods in butter or olive oil. coconut milk is great....avocado....eggs....
i even coat dd's fruits like strawberries, blueberries in homemade balsamic just to get that extra kick of fats with the olive oil.

trust me, i know it's confusing. we just started daycare at 12 months now and i'm still not sure what i'm doing about those 2 daytime/nap liquid feedings. dd eats a good amount of solids...regular people food and for now we're doing formula but not quite sure how to proceed.
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Originally Posted by Abraisme View Post
My opinion is that you should replace breast-feeding with formula until at least 18-24mo. I do not believe that babies should get cows milk as a substitute (unless your baby has suddenly become a baby cow). Formula is for baby humans and they need it until they can eat an entire diet of solids. Good luck.

ETA: Dr. Mercola also has a recipe for an all natural homemade baby formula. You'd have to check his website, but you basically take raw cow or goat milk and add a bunch of ingredients.
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Originally Posted by bubbagirl View Post
Mrscompgeek just wanted to let you know how well you are handling the answers you are being given. Food is probably the one thing people feel the most passionate about and if you tell people that you don't agree with what they are doing it can get pretty ugly.

That being said, I think what people are saying is the fat/protein needs to be addressed. Cows milk has so much more protein than human milk because its meant to raise cows not humans (you know this) so good for you on findimg fresh goat milk if you want to substitute with it.

Have you considered coconut water? Fresh from coconuts would be best but there are some good packaged brands you could find online or at a hfs. It has a lot of the same properties as mamas milk.

Also, about the juice - juicing a few nonsweet fruits and root veggies with celery is so nutritious. I agree store bought juice is void of most nutrition once they heat it up. This could be a good addition . Also if she is ok with beans, a hummus might help fill a protein/fat meal.
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