giving a 3 week old rice cereal- does this sound right to you? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, my little baby is a spitter upper and when she spits up, it comes out her nose sometimes. That kind of freaks me out. So I called our new pediatrician today, and she recommended a formula with Rice cereal  already added. Or, (since we BF) to mix a couple of tsp of cereal or oatmeal. per oz of pumped milk that I give her.

 

She's 3 weeks old. That sounds a little crazy to me, to be giving her rice cereal or oatmeal already. I think she should be nursing as much as possible.

Anyone else heard of their Ped. recommending this so soon? This doesn't sound right to me.


 

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#2 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 03:16 PM
 
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I would switch ped's immediatley. No that is very wrong. Keep nursing only please.

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#3 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 03:21 PM
 
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That's a very common first suggestion when babies do a lot of spitting/throwing up.  My ped says in abou 10% of reflux babies, it makes things much better and in the other 90%, it makes it worse.  My own daughter was not keeping anything down and not gaining weight.  We tried mixing in the rice - which is essentially just a thickener - to make a very very runny consistency.  It didn't work at all for her.  For my niece?  All the difference in the world.  She started mostly keeping her milk down and gaining weight normally.  My daughter eventually had to go on Prevacid.

 

It may or may not be something you want to try, but it's not totally crazy unusual advice.

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#4 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 03:37 PM
 
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It sounds really old school.

 

For what it's worth, my first DD would spit up/regurgitate 30% of what she nursed ... until she was ... gees, I can't remember, I think she was standing / walking when it stopped.  We were told to bulk her up with formula (not w/rice mixed in) to get her weight up.  I wasn't into that at all.  Also, they offered pump inhibitors (pepsid?) ... which we declined.  

 

She did not, however, have it coming out of her nose -- I imagine that's more problemmatic.

 

GL with your little one.


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#5 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I had heard of the rice before...but not this young. My mil said she used to give it to my husband to get him sleep through the  night when he was older.

 

II also wonder if the spitting up thing is because shes so young. she was born at 35w 6days.


 

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#6 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 03:59 PM
 
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That's horrible advice and potentially very harmful.

 

Spitting up is usually a laundry problem and not a medical one.  Giving a newborn anything but breastmilk (or formula) can cause medical problems.

 

My kids were both epic spitters as infants.  It passed.  We went through a lot of burp cloths and laundry, but they gained weight beautifully and stopped spitting up by around 6 months.  My mother tells me that I spit up regularly until about a year, so obviously well after I was started on solids.

 

Is it possible that you have a forceful letdown?

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html

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#7 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 04:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lovelylisa View Post

I had heard of the rice before...but not this young. My mil said she used to give it to my husband to get him sleep through the  night when he was older.

 

II also wonder if the spitting up thing is because shes so young. she was born at 35w 6days.



OMG, your ped. is recommending rice cereal for a baby who hasn't even reached its due date yet???  Run, don't walk, away from this ped.

 

FWIW my babies both started spitting up while still in the NICU, and the nurses and neonatologists didn't even bat an eye.  It just wasn't a problem or a concern.


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#8 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 04:36 PM
 
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I agree with others who have said get a new ped -- immediately! What bad advice your doctor gave you! I had a very forceful letdown with my ds and he had some nose leakage as well. It didn't last long. By maybe 3-4 months he spit up a lot less, and it didn't come out his nose.

 

Maybe the new ped can take a look to make sure there isn't any issue with the velum (soft palate). Everything is probably just fine. Keep breastfeeding...maybe invest in a few extra burp cloths :-) 

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#9 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 04:48 PM
 
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I would get a new ped asap.

I personally would never recommend feeding rice cereal, but if you are going to do I dont think its even recommended by most peds until 4 months. In fact, most rice cereal says on the packaging not to feed it to newborns.

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#10 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post

That's horrible advice and potentially very harmful.

 

Spitting up is usually a laundry problem and not a medical one.  Giving a newborn anything but breastmilk (or formula) can cause medical problems.

 

My kids were both epic spitters as infants.  It passed.  We went through a lot of burp cloths and laundry, but they gained weight beautifully and stopped spitting up by around 6 months.  My mother tells me that I spit up regularly until about a year, so obviously well after I was started on solids.

 

Is it possible that you have a forceful letdown?

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html

Wow, that kellymom link really sounds like what's been going on with us! I have an appointment next week  with a LC, so I will bring that up to her.
 

 

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#11 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 04:55 PM
 
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Humans do not have the enzymes needed to absorb and digest grains until around the age of 2 or 3.
And on top of that, your baby still has an open gut, and feeding anything other then milk will cause damage.
 

In traditional cultures parents would feed grains to older babies, only after chewing it them first. The Amylase enzyme would be mixed into the grain from the saliva, and allow the baby to properly digest it.


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#12 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 05:15 PM
 
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I would see the pedi and ask her about possibility of Acid reflux. giving rice will do nothing for spit up and cause constupation at this age.

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Originally Posted by lovelylisa View Post

So, my little baby is a spitter upper and when she spits up, it comes out her nose sometimes. That kind of freaks me out. So I called our new pediatrician today, and she recommended a formula with Rice cereal  already added. Or, (since we BF) to mix a couple of tsp of cereal or oatmeal. per oz of pumped milk that I give her.

 

She's 3 weeks old. That sounds a little crazy to me, to be giving her rice cereal or oatmeal already. I think she should be nursing as much as possible.

Anyone else heard of their Ped. recommending this so soon? This doesn't sound right to me.



 

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#13 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 05:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks View Post

Humans do not have the enzymes needed to absorb and digest grains until around the age of 2 or 3.
And on top of that, your baby still has an open gut, and feeding anything other then milk will cause damage.
 

In traditional cultures parents would feed grains to older babies, only after chewing it them first. The Amylase enzyme would be mixed into the grain from the saliva, and allow the baby to properly digest it.



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We have been over this time and time again. Provide proof of this "open gut" woo-ness.

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#14 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 05:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post




eyesroll.gif

We have been over this time and time again. Provide proof of this "open gut" woo-ness.


How is it "woo-ness"?

 

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solids/delay-solids.html

 


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#15 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 05:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post

That's horrible advice and potentially very harmful.

 


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On top of over active let down and massive over supply that caused "refluxiness" in my baby, it turned out (after dealing with the breastfeeding issues and also a dairy sensitivity he had) that he also had severe reflux. The acid-makes-his-vocal-cords-clamp-shut-so-baby-can't-breath kind of reflux. Not once did his specialists suggest rice cereal. In fact, one was so happy that he was exclusively breastfed, as breastfeeding helps with reflux.

 

So even if your baby had severe reflux, rice cereal is no longer recommended as a treatment (at least not by doctors who are up to date on the latest research it seems.) It's really "old school" as a PP said.

 

I too would be looking for a new doctor for my baby if I were given that advice! (We have a family doctor who we love.)

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#16 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 05:33 PM
 
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OMG. No, no, no. Is your ped. 85 years old? 

 

I agree with the others: get out of there! Either the spit up is normal newborn pukiness, or there's perhaps a reflux issue going on. Either way, rice cereal is not the answer!



 
 
 
 

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#17 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I didn't love this Ped to begin with (I loved our last Ped but we moved) so you all basically confirmed what I was feeling anyway.  Thanks :) I'm going to talk to the LC about the letdown thing, and maybe that'll help some of the spitting uppiness. Especially sometimes she flails about like she's getting a huge mouthful so that makes sense. 

 

My son was way into spitting up, so  I wasn't alarmed till I saw milk comng out heir nose.

 

 


 

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#18 of 65 Old 07-09-2011, 09:25 PM
 
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my guess would be that the spit-up out the nose will go away with a little age (though once you find a better ped you should get her soft palate checked). is she laying when the spit comes out the nose? if so you can try having her on an incline or upright when she's likely to spit up and it's less likely to go out the nose.


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My baby had some reflux, and this was discussed as a treatment, but we never tried it. He gained well and wasn't miserable, so I didn't think there was any need to actively treat the reflux, especially not with drugs. I would have tried rice cereal before the drugs, though. His digestion seemed to improve slightly after introducing (homemade) rice cereal at 4 months adjusted age (5.5 months after his birth) but at 10 months he still spits up occasionally.

 

The advice to try rice cereal or oatmeal wouldn't make me drop the doctor, but if you have other issued with this pediatrician, it might add to the points against him/her. Our ped has given us much worse advice (to wean before 12 months?!?).

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#20 of 65 Old 07-10-2011, 09:10 AM
 
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My baby has reflux and we tried rice when she was still in the NICU.  Like one of the pp said, our doc told us that rice works for some babies and doesn't work for others.  One other problem for breastfed babies is that breastmilk breaks down the rice reducing potential effectiveness (this was what the docs told us).  We tried the rice in breastmilk anyway, but unfortunately it did nothing.  I know a lot of people are horrified by the idea of giving young babies rice, but for me, in terms of trying to do no harm to a baby, I would rather use rice than medication.  Our docs put off using meds as long as possible because they said there are no good studies of the longterm effects of many of these meds-and some turn out to be scary,Reglan, for example, used to be widely prescribed but is now recognized to have serious potential side effects- which can potentially be a lot worse for babies than rice.  If my baby had shown any signs of having gut issues, or if we had a family history of allergies I might have said no to the rice.

 

All that said, after we tried the rice and it didn't work, we moved to zantac, which also didn't work.  My lo has now been taking prevacid for six months and it works really well for her.

 

ETA: It looks like there is a discussion in Breastfeeding Challenges that might be useful to you about figuring out whether a baby is having reflux issues or a hindmilk/foremilk issue.


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#21 of 65 Old 07-10-2011, 10:25 AM
 
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When my baby was spiting up, and fussy  and coliky my Russian mother told me to eat a lot of dill. Which I did. It seemed harmless enough.  It worked. Of course, it is statistical sample of 1 subject. So, who knows.

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#22 of 65 Old 07-10-2011, 11:57 AM
 
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I've been hearing the "rice in the bottle" idea for years.  I've seen it at work many, many times.  I can't say that I've seen it cause any problems in kids as they get older.  Our parents put rice in our bottles as infants too.

 

However, it's great in theory, but it really doesn't work.  The idea is, it's supposed to thicken the milk, and keep things from coming back out.  But, if you make a bottle of rice and milk, even if you shake it really well, within a few moments, the rice settles to the bottom, and the milk is still liquid at the top.  So, it still comes back up.

 

One thing I HAVE seen that helps is putting the baby down right away.  Either in a reclining stroller, or one of those fisher price rocker seats.  Even that doesn't work all the time.  It's actually just a delay in the spitting up.... I mean, how long can an infant sit there?  Eventually you have to pick her up, and she's going to yak on you again.

 

I've heard that feeding from only one breast at a time will help.  (or was it half feed on each breast??  I can't remember)

 

There are other really great tricks out there.  All doctors will say or do something wrong at one point.  If you don't like what you hear 10% of the time, maybe you can live with that.  If you don't like what you hear 50% of the time, you should probably find a new doctor.   It's like all advice, some you like, some you don't.  There isn't even one perfect parenting book out there, you take what you want, and ignore the rest.  

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There are other really great tricks out there.  All doctors will say or do something wrong at one point.  If you don't like what you hear 10% of the time, maybe you can live with that.  If you don't like what you hear 50% of the time, you should probably find a new doctor.   It's like all advice, some you like, some you don't.  There isn't even one perfect parenting book out there, you take what you want, and ignore the rest.  



But this doctor is recommending rice cereal for an infant who hasn't even reached its due date yet, just for spitting up, without even examining it for reflux or poor weight gain, and who didn't even suggest overactive letdown as a possibility.  That sounds to me like a ped. who is neither breastfeeding-friendly nor breastfeeding-knowledgeable, and that kind of "advice" could rapidly derail a normal breastfeeding relationship.

 

And to me, that IS harmful.

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#24 of 65 Old 07-10-2011, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's what kind of annoys me about the dr.... she hasn't quite been giving me answers to things that I feel comfortable with. She didn't even ask if I was breastfeeding in the first place, she just told me to buy the rice formula. Then, after the rice suggestion, she said "I hate to tell you not to breastfeed her, but I'd give her the bottle with the rice in it"

 

 

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But this doctor is recommending rice cereal for an infant who hasn't even reached its due date yet, just for spitting up, without even examining it for reflux or poor weight gain, and who didn't even suggest overactive letdown as a possibility.  That sounds to me like a ped. who is neither breastfeeding-friendly nor breastfeeding-knowledgeable, and that kind of "advice" could rapidly derail a normal breastfeeding relationship.

 

And to me, that IS harmful.



 


 

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#25 of 65 Old 07-10-2011, 11:38 PM
 
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I have no idea what "wooness" is. I also have never discussed the open gut on this forum before.

 

 

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Delaying solids decreases the risk of food allergies.
It is well documented that prolonged exclusive breastfeeding results in a lower incidence of food allergies (see Allergy References and Risks of Artificial Feeding). From birth until somewhere between four and six months of age, babies possess what is often referred to as an "open gut." opengut.gifThis means that the spaces between the cells of the small intestines will readily allow intact macromolecules, including whole proteins and pathogens, to pass directly into the bloodstream.This is great for your breastfed baby as it allows beneficial antibodies in breastmilk to pass more directly into baby's bloodstream, but it also means that large proteins from other foods (which may predispose baby to allergies) and disease-causing pathogens can pass right through, too. During baby's first 4-6 months, while the gut is still "open," antibodies (sIgA) from breastmilk coat baby's digestive tract and provide passive immunity, reducing the likelihood of illness and allergic reactions before gut closure occurs. Baby starts producing these antibodies on his own at around 6 months, and gut closure should have occurred by this time also. See How Breast Milk Protects Newborns and The Case for the Virgin Gut for more on this subject.
 

 

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We have been over this time and time again. Provide proof of this "open gut" woo-ness.


 


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#26 of 65 Old 07-11-2011, 05:47 AM
 
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I'm not sure if this was mentioned already, but when I was looking into it, I read that thickening feeds can be dangerous because if the baby aspirates particles (rice cereal) it's worse than aspirating liquids like breastmilk. Sorry, that is a horribly-worded sentence, but hopefully you get my drift. I believe it may also be more likely for baby to aspirate thickened feeds. Also, although spitting up may decrease with thickening, I have heard that silent reflux is still present. So less mess but not less pain & injury etc. for the baby. Plus the baby may fill up too quickly & ultimately not get enough nutrients.

I wouldn't be comfortable continuing to see a doc who recommended this... ESPECIALLY in a preemie...

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#27 of 65 Old 07-11-2011, 05:51 AM
 
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In traditional cultures parents would feed grains to older babies, only after chewing it them first. The Amylase enzyme would be mixed into the grain from the saliva, and allow the baby to properly digest it.


Although I agree with your conclusion, I'm not sure about your reasoning. Isn't amylase present in high amounts in breastmilk? So wouldn't mixing rice cereal with expressed milk do something similar to pre-chewing babies' food?

Also, where did you get the 'can't digest grains 'til 2 or 3 years old' data? I have generally heard about 6mos (due to amylase being available in baby's pancrease around that time).

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#28 of 65 Old 07-11-2011, 07:26 AM
 
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First of all, I know that Kellymom is a great resource for breastfeeding, but I do not consider it to be "proof" of scientific evidence that putting anything in your baby's gut before six months is harmful. One article written 3 years ago by Ann Calandro is not "proof" that babies will be harmed or develop allergies when fed other things besides breastmilk in the first 6 months of life. This line of advice makes a lot of mom's feel really bad, insinuating that once a mother has done something once, they have "ruined" their child's virgin gut. What about mom's who have to feed formula. I guess they are just ruining their kids virgin gut. There has been more recent evidence that is in favor of introducing foods earlier to prevent allergies.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/121/1/e44?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=solid+food&andorexactfulltext=phrase&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/125/1/50

(This, posted several months ago in one of the threads below by MDC user MJB. )

And, as you can see in all of these threads, everytime someone refreneces virgin gut, they just give a link to kellymom. While Kellymom is a good breastfeeding resource, I dont believe they are the authority on when to start feeding kids things other than breasmilk.

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1291932/continue-with-just-mama-milk-or-add-some-food
http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1292893/need-link-to-new-food-allergy-study
http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1279614/starting-solids
http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1273996/those-of-you-who-do-blw-how-do-you-give-the-baby-chunks-without-being-scared-of-choking/40 (GASP! Please, dont feed babies under 6 months)
http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1283644/babies-and-foods


Then, of course, there is this gem, one of my very first posts, where a user used some really snotty smilies at me and introduced me to the concept of the "virgin gut." Needless to say, I didnt quit letting my kid taste things. She is now 16 months and will eat about anything you put in front of her (including super sourdough pancakes) and she is extremely healthy and still nursing a ton. Also, no diagnosed allergies and she eats nuts, gluten, grains, and lots of dairy.

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1233035/what-have-you-put-in-your-baby-s-mouth





Holly and David partners.gif

Adaline love.gif (3/20/10), and Charlie brokenheart.gif (1/26/12- 4/10/12) and our identical  rainbow1284.gif  twins Callie and Wendy (01/04/13)

SIDS happens. 

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#29 of 65 Old 07-11-2011, 08:04 AM
 
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Th nose and mouth are connected. If a kid spits up with her mouth closed, I would expect it to come out her nose.

My daughter was a projectile puker. I found that she was more comfortable if I nursed her upright and kept her upright. I eventually discovered she had problems with some of the foods I was eating.

Good luck figuring out what's best for your baby.

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#30 of 65 Old 07-11-2011, 09:14 AM
 
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I agree with everyone who said RUN don't walk away from this ped.  I'd also like to suggest a chiro for baby.  If it's reflux (and it probably is lol) they can work wonders!


Amanda
Mom to Reya (13) and Little baby Lila 9/22

 

http://arealwomanssweatjournal.blogspot.com

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