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#61 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 12:24 PM
 
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Oh my kids watch tv.  I don't think I'd survive without it, but that said, I don't use it as a babysitter and we still get out plenty.  It's all about balance, IMO.

 

Thanks for the feedback on the BBQ.  We've gotten flack in the past, so that's why I asked, but so far all our kids parties have been on our terms.  So, yeah.  Cool.  Thanks.

 

Dropped Nora at school, went to Quiznos for lunch, watching some TV and playing with the baby...hopefully he goes for nap and I'll be able to clean up a bit.  My ILs are coming by tonight with birthday cake for Chris and I. (Yes, a vegan one!  They ordered it! LOL!)


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#62 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 12:44 PM
 
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Carrie - mmm Quiznos! (so not something you would order, but I love their prime rib sub) most of the ones here have closed. :(

 

hooray for vegan birthday cake!


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#63 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I could list stuff for sale on our local yard sale website but I don't like the idea of strangers coming to my home when Sean isn't here. So, again, that would have to wait until he's home. I guess I could arrange to meet somewhere public. That would still involve taking the kids out but not as much of a hassle as standing in line at the PO. then i'd just have to find the time to dig everything out, take photos and list it all with prices. i have quite a bit of stuff between diapers, clothes and woolies. i'd like to get it all listed at once because i think people would be more likely to get diapers and covers from one place (me) if they can.

i was very strict about TV when Ryan was young. Now, I don't even care. the TV is almost always on here, either watching something on cable, playing a video game or now streaming netflix. sometimes i wish dylan would pay attention but he doesn't. i guess since it's on all the time it's not something exciting. shrug.gif

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#64 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 02:11 PM
 
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I'm so emotional lately.  Do you think it means anything?  Hormones maybe?  I'm taking everything so personally.  I'm thinking about talking to my mom again, which I'd never thought I'd do.  We haven't spoken in well over a year.  I'm taking this whole cio thing wayyyy too seriously.  I'm having so much drama with DD and I feel like things are just miserable all the time.  I cry at the drop of a hat.  I cry all the time, really. DH and i are having issues.  I feel overwhelmed a lot of the time...and I feel like I'm just kind of blah.

I feel rather alone lately, w/o family, w/o friends.  And DH is all I have so when we bicker I feel out of control alone.

I'm wondering tho if maybe it's just hormones?  Maybe I'm just making big deals out of nothing?


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#65 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 02:41 PM
 
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I'm so emotional lately.  Do you think it means anything?  Hormones maybe?  I'm taking everything so personally.  I'm thinking about talking to my mom again, which I'd never thought I'd do.  We haven't spoken in well over a year.  I'm taking this whole cio thing wayyyy too seriously.  I'm having so much drama with DD and I feel like things are just miserable all the time.  I cry at the drop of a hat.  I cry all the time, really. DH and i are having issues.  I feel overwhelmed a lot of the time...and I feel like I'm just kind of blah.

I feel rather alone lately, w/o family, w/o friends.  And DH is all I have so when we bicker I feel out of control alone.

I'm wondering tho if maybe it's just hormones?  Maybe I'm just making big deals out of nothing?



It could be PMS. When did you get your cycle back w/DD? I feel like that some days. Like I just want to sit down and cry. I thought it was just delayed PPD since I didn't really have a PP due to DD's surgery and subsequent care. I know it gets worse when I'm PMSing.


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#66 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 03:10 PM
 
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I'm not sure b/c I stupidly got a mirena at my 6 wk pp visit after Nora.  I wish I had a gauge for when to expect things back.  Once I got the mirena, I'm pretty sure my cycle started right away, but obviously it wasn't a real cycle.

Yeah, i don't think it's PPD.  I honestly think I just need some good IRL friends who I don't constantly have to have a guard up, or defend choices, or try to convince of something one way or another.  I'm tired of it.  I feel like I'm wasting breath lately. 

And I want to get back in touch with family but I just don't know if I'm strong enough to do that.

Alysia, didn't you post something on fb about that awhile back?  And everyone encouraged you to keep talking b/c you never know who you will influence?

 


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#67 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 03:41 PM
 
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Carrie: has the difference been since Finn started solids? I think it could totally be hormones. And end of winter ickiness.

I do think some IRL friends would help. I don't know if y'all know but DH and I met thru eharmony, and I moved to be with him. Until the last couple years, when I made some friends thru church and crunchy mamas, I felt very lonely at times. Especially when we were going thru sex dry spells. I needed to connect with people. And with him. When that wasn't happening, I was the most depressed I have ever been. And generally I am not usually prone to depression. It's so hard when you are all alone. And you have toddler drama too! Hugs! Move south and you'll have some more IRL friends smile.gif

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#68 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I first wondering about PPD. It can come on late. It depends on whether you feel down, overwhelmed and irritated about everything all the time or if your feelings are situational. I think those feelings also have to last at least 2 weeks. Could be hormones. I always get very emotional and irritable during my lp.

I did post a while back on FB that I was feeling very overwhelmed by all the causes and feeling like it wasn't making a difference. I took a few steps back, stopped worrying about every little issue and stopped trying to pass on every little bit of info that I came across. I have so many friends on FB who post blogs and studies and all kinds of other things that are very important to me and I want to spread the word. If I shared everything I saw, I'd spend all day sharing so much that no one would have time to see any of it.

Have you checked out the Find Your Tribe board to see if there are any local AP groups? That's how I met AP moms in Hawaii and here. LLL meetings are another good place to meet like-minded people. Not everyone who breastfeeds and goes to LLL meetings is AP but many are. What about that Meetup website? Is that still available?

i haven't had a really good irl friend since i lived in hawaii. i was hoping to make some good friends in the homeschool group i joined but i didn't. i like the other moms well enough, but besides homeschooling, we don't really have much in common. they all ebf, which is cool, but that seems to be where the AP sensibilities stop. none of them unschool although they've had other unschoolers in the group over the years. i have a hard time with how they treat their children, very controlling and sometimes downright mean. i spend a lot of my time biting my tongue. They don't hassle me about unschooling and I don't hassle them about being mean.

I think two of the moms are beginning to not like me very much. One makes sour faces any time I say anything. She doesn't really argue or disagree. She just gets a look that says she doesn't like anything I say. The other I thought I might become good friends with but I think she has decided she doesn't like me or my family much because we unschool. She sort of accused me of saying she was mean once on FB, which I didn't. The next time I saw her after that she wouldn't even look at me. Weird. Oh well. Nothing I can do. There's one other mama who I still get along with even though we disagree on a lot of things. We just don't argue about them. I think we've both decided to not worry about our differences.

I'm used to being the odd person out. Did I tell you guys I was asked to leave the Hawaii AP group because I was too AP? lol.gif

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#69 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 04:49 PM
 
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Did I tell you guys I was asked to leave the Hawaii AP group because I was too AP? :lol


biglaugh.gif Now that's funny! My IRL friends are all over the spectrum. In most situations, I'm on the extreme end of crunchy/AP. But I don't hassle my friends about their choices and they don't hassle me. Sometimes we talk about it. And I just explain why I've made XY or Z choice. But I made the decision a few years ago that unless someone specifically asks my opinion, I keep it to myself. Now if they ask me why I've chosen to have DD stay in the room with us in her sidecar or why she's not really eating solids or whatever, then I will explain why I made that choice. I do have one friend, my goddaughter's mom and DD's babysitter that I censor myself around because she has the type of personality that if you choose to do something different than her, she takes it as a judgment on her choices. eyesroll.gif


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#70 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 05:06 PM
 
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I've made an appointment for DD to be seen by a geneticist. When she was born, she was labeled as a dysmorphic infant because of some physical characteristics, namely: sacral dimple w/skin tag, excess nuchal skin, widely spaced nipples and a palmar crease. They did some genetic testing to rule out DS and to see if she fit any known chromosomal syndromes. She did not. That was the last we talked about it. In doing my research for her low muscle tone in her chest and shoulders, Noonan Syndrome kept popping up. Seems it is also associated w/her heart condition. So I emailed her cardiac nurse to see if she could ask the geneticist that initially ordered the testing a question about Noonan Syndrome. I expected him to say it was covered and she's fine. He didn't. He messaged her back and said that he had looked at her chart and he would like to see her in clinic. Apparently there are other tests for NS and she hasn't had them. So we'll go see him in a few weeks.

 

I feel...undecided about this. I feel like I've got Pandora's Box in my lap and I don't know if I want to open it. If DD does have NS, will it change her care? Does it matter if she has that DX? Will it allow for other care that she may need? We have her regular cardiac clinic next week so I'll talk to her cardiologist about it then. He does a good job of calming me down when I start spinning out of control regarding DD.

 

The thing is I've felt all along that something is off with DD. I just couldn't figure out what it was. When I started reading about NS the other day it was like "oh ok that's what it is". But I don't want to jump to conclusions.


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#71 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 05:14 PM
 
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Do any of you guys belong to the Cloth Diaper Swap on FB? One of my friends joined recently and she's been buying and selling stuff like crazy! I thought of you MW because mamas are always posting their longies and stuff like that on there. You'd still have to to go to the post office though. I'm terrible about getting to the post office hence the reason you haven't gotten your yummy coffee from me yet! I haven't forgotten about you...things have just been nutso in my house recently.


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#72 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think that it could be helpful to get her diagnosed if she does have that. If she does, she may need extra care, support or interventions that could get costly and having an official DX would make it more likely for you all to get financial assistance for that. I just skimmed a little about Noonan Syndrome. It seems it can be associated with other possible medical problems, like blood clotting issues. I think it would be good to know that she might have a problem with that beforehand, jic. Try to take it one step at a time and not get ahead of yourself with a lot of what-ifs.

I am not on that FB group. I might join if it's a good place to sell used diapers and wool. I haven't had much luck on Diaperswappers, which is the only online place I know of anymore. I used to be able to easily buy and sell stuff on here until they closed and then revamped the FSOT board.

Don't worry about the coffee. One grocery store still sells the kind I like. I just have to make more effort to go there. I'd been shopping at a different one because I drove by it almost every day. The other isn't really far out of my way, though, and they have a larger organic selection.

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#73 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 07:08 PM
 
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Yeah the clotting issue is one that caught my eye. When DD gets a bruise, it stays forever. And small things like heel sticks or finger pricks bleed and bleed. But she hasn't had trouble with surgery as far as I know. Both times, she's only needed the one unit of blood that they use to prime the bypass machine. shrug.gif Trying to not freak out and go down a bad path. But I think you are right. If she has it, we need the diagnosis.


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#74 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was thinking that, if she had a clotting issue, the docs probably would have noticed with all her surgeries, unless it's something that can develop later. I don't know anything about that, really.

So, I have mixed feelings about getting Dylan to sleep tonight. I was afraid we were going to have another crazy late night like last night because he fell asleep around 8:30 but woke up about a half hour later. I took everyone to bed at 10. Dylan was restless and wanted to crawl all over the bed, which I can't really allow because he could fall off. I tried nursing him, and he would nurse for a little bit, but then he'd want to get up and crawl around again. Finally, I laid him down in the crook of my arm. He cried. He could still move but maybe not quite enough to get up. I don't know. I didn't hold him down or try to keep him from moving or getting up but I didn't pick him up or move him around because he was crying. He only cried for maybe a minute. Then it sounded like he was sucking his thumb. After a few seconds of that he started to get fussy again so I nursed him again. This time he nursed relatively quietly but still wasn't going to sleep and did try to get up again. I tried burping him and rocking him for a bit. Then laid him back down on the other side to nurse again. He again nursed for a bit and then unlatched and laid on me but I don't think he was asleep because he kept squeezing my cheek with his hand. Then he did the strangest thing. He started grinding his teeth. Oh, it sounded awful, like nails on a chalkboard, but I was afraid to try to stop him because at least he was still and not fussing or crying. I laid there with him doing that for several minutes and then got up. I'm still not sure he was asleep but he didn't stir when I got up. I could still hear him grinding his teeth as I left the room.

I feel bad about this. What if all of that upset him so much that he developed that nervous tick of grinding his teeth to deal with it?

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#75 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 08:22 PM
 
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Did his crying increase in intensity? Did he sound frantic? If not, he probably just figured out a fun new noise. Probably best to ignore it so he doesn't keep doing it!

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#76 of 396 Old 03-05-2012, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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He cries so little it's hard to know. I wouldn't say it was frantic. It slowly decreased in intensity. Ethan fell asleep and Kellen was already sleeping and neither was awakened by it and they were both in the same bed, Kellen right next to him. I didn't leave him. I was right there with him holding him in the crook of my arm the whole time. I just didn't nurse him or pick him up. That's what I thought, if I ignore it, maybe he'll learn that when it's dark and we are all in bed it's time to at least lay down and be quiet and still even if he isn't quite ready to go to sleep. If he had gotten really upset or started really screaming, I would have picked him up. And, like I said, it was for such a short time, only about 1 minute, literally.

Maybe it's an extension of when he was a newborn and would cry on my shoulder until he fell asleep. I'm so not used to that. I'm used to just laying down with my babies and nursing them to sleep.

Of course, I should be in bed sleeping, too, but I want to knit and watch some X-Files in peace.

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#77 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 04:35 AM
 
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LOL! X-Files!

 

MW: I am so out of touch with the people there; only I do thinkt he homeschool stuff there is still largely religion driven. (correct me if I am wrong) - and the religion that's there is very um. conservative? and jealous. I was so shocked when I moved away that when I church-hopped trying to find a good fit, that my previous church(es) were just happy I was finding a church that fit me well, and didn't talk bad about where I found a good fit.  For some reason I can't fathom, the people there want you to be just like them and agree with everything they believe; there is not a lot of space for agreeing to disagree. Considering I'm further south than you are, it's kind of surprising to find that people here are more flexible. (I will say also that people here are far more racist. I miss the lack of racial drama that we had in eastern NC - then again, maybe it was just a military thing, and not regional)

 

Here, the homeschoolers I know aren't really religious. Alot are agnostic or Catholic, and homeschooling has nothing to do with their religion. It has more to do with the broken system and how we want to raise our kids. Where as the religious people send their kids to public school almost as if it were a mission field. I don't agree with that at all.

 

I am on the crunchy spectrum somewhere middle to extreme. I don't use cloth wipes. I use sposies on DD for now. I don't eat all organic stuff. I wish I could. we do eat meat. (though I would like to have us eating less of it). I do use a stroller.  . . . I found my local crunchy friends through my doula. And I am so glad I did!

 

re: teeth grinding and such. Maybe he is just a restless go to sleeper. I am that way. Does he ever sleep while being worn? Norah nearly always conks out; it's like swaddling. magic!

 

Annie: re: Ava's possible condition. I think you should get her tested. It's better to know. It may help you and her medical team find better ways to help her. and if it comes back negative, then you won't constantly be wondering.

 

babies are awake . . . yay.


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#78 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 05:02 AM
 
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Kat - I think you may be on to something re: the solids.  I wonder if it's somehow related.  Idk!  I definitely don't feel sad or unhappy all the time, it's mostly situational.  It always comes back to some residual guilt I have over my lack of relationship with my family.  I feel like it's my job to mend a fence I didn't knock down.  Sigh. 

 

Annnie - re:the dx, I would go ahead and do it.  It doesn't seem like it would affect her negatively to have a name to what is wrong.  I don't think it would classify her in any way that is detrimental to getting her heart care, and it can only help if she needs PT or any kind of special education in the future.  I'm of the mindset that I like to know what I'm dealing with.  It is quite interesting to read about, I hope that you get some answers soon. hug.gif

 

Mw - YES!  I do remember about you being kicked out.  Something about supporting women to bf, even though they were talking about quitting.  I remember vividly.  I would be the same!  I would so have gotten kicked out with you.

I'm so black and white it's hard for me to find gray area friends.  I have so many "friends of friends" IRL that aren't my own...but we can only chat about one thing or another.

I met 2 fantastic ladies at the Target Nurse In.  We chat on FB all they time and they are local.  I need to just have them over for coffee or once it's nice out go meet them at a park.  I NEED to for my sanity.

LLL...I'm sort of over LLL.  Idk.  They are a wonderful resource, I think, but often I disagree with their tactics.  They were so up in arms over that photo of a daddy feeding his baby a bottle, and good luck trying to get any advice from a leader about gentle weaning of a toddler.  I say I'm all or nothing, but LLL does come across to me as definitely all or nothing.

That said my leader was so wonderful and I contemplated becoming a leader myself, b/c it would be so helpful when I do decide to start school to become an LC.  

 

I'm probably on the low end of the crunchy chart, so I dont know why it's so hard for me to make friends.  Maybe b/c I do so many mainstream things, the few things I feel strongly about HAVE to be there in order for me to like you.  Almost like a bare mininum?  Idk! lol.gif

 

Nora slept in her own room again for the first time in what feels like forever!  I feel like a new woman this morning (even though Finn woke up a million times last night.  I'm pretty sure he's just teething).

 

I started reading the No Cry Sleep Solution for preschoolers and Toddlers.  So far...I'm not learning anything I didn't already know.  Officially she gets enough sleep, she usually gets 12 -13 hours (even if she wakes in the middle, if I don't fight with her she goes right back to sleep in my bed).  It is nice to have a reminder though that as long as everyone is getting sleep and is happy, don't worry about what other ppl think.  Who cares if she's in my bed and DH is upstairs and the baby is next to us?  As long as WE ARE HAPPY, that's what matters.

Tho it is hard when your MIL says things like, "Is she STILL waking up?  Is she STILL sleeping in your bed?"  ugh.  Get over it MIL.

 

 


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#79 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 05:25 AM
 
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We have a family member whose 2 year old is still waking at night. She is currently being taken care of by her grandma (early 40's I think) and she and her mother (the g.grandma) are really struggling with this "behaviour". I am like, what's the big deal? this little girl has 1)recently gone through some hard stuff she doesn't understand (hence being with grandma) and also she is 2!!! If she's waking up, there is a reason. you may not know what it is, but try to figure it out. not everyone, even adults, sleep through the night all the time. I wish I could help more.

 

Carre: In regards to solids - introducing them is said to be the beginning of the weaning process, and as such, perhaps it has messed with your hormones a litle. and it's such a milestone of him growing up. It can make you think about your relationships too.

 

LLL . . . I've heard mixed things about the local ones. If I didn't have some crunchy mama friends, I might be tempted to check them out, but I don't really feel a need to.

 

I am such a moderate person. I can almost always see both sides of an arguement, even if I don't agree with you, I can at least see where you are coming from. Like on meat eating. I have no problem with it. I totally get why some people don't. If I were at a Vegan/Vegetarian house, I'd eat what was offered and be glad to try some new stuff. It's just not a big deal to me. I don't vax the kids and I feel strongly about it. I have crunchy friends that have done their research and feel just as strongly about vaxing theirs. I'm cool with that. It's when people make decisions out of a place of ignorance or just following the crowd that bugs me. I am pro-life, but I don't think abortion should be illegal. I can't see good that would come of making it illegal. I think we need to focus on better and more widespread use of conraception methods. but these are just examples.

 

I probably bite my tongue the most about breast vs formula feeding. I hate the idea its just as good (its not) and the tjought that it doesnt matter to your baby. It does.


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#80 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 05:52 AM
 
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We have a family member whose 2 year old is still waking at night. She is currently being taken care of by her grandma (early 40's I think) and she and her mother (the g.grandma) are really struggling with this "behaviour". I am like, what's the big deal? this little girl has 1)recently gone through some hard stuff she doesn't understand (hence being with grandma) and also she is 2!!! If she's waking up, there is a reason. you may not know what it is, but try to figure it out. not everyone, even adults, sleep through the night all the time. I wish I could help more.

 

Carre: In regards to solids - introducing them is said to be the beginning of the weaning process, and as such, perhaps it has messed with your hormones a litle. and it's such a milestone of him growing up. It can make you think about your relationships too.

 

LLL . . . I've heard mixed things about the local ones. If I didn't have some crunchy mama friends, I might be tempted to check them out, but I don't really feel a need to.

 

I am such a moderate person. I can almost always see both sides of an arguement, even if I don't agree with you, I can at least see where you are coming from. Like on meat eating. I have no problem with it. I totally get why some people don't. If I were at a Vegan/Vegetarian house, I'd eat what was offered and be glad to try some new stuff. It's just not a big deal to me. I don't vax the kids and I feel strongly about it. I have crunchy friends that have done their research and feel just as strongly about vaxing theirs. I'm cool with that. It's when people make decisions out of a place of ignorance or just following the crowd that bugs me. I am pro-life, but I don't think abortion should be illegal. I can't see good that would come of making it illegal. I think we need to focus on better and more widespread use of conraception methods. but these are just examples.

 

I probably bite my tongue the most about breast vs formula feeding. I hate the idea its just as good (its not) and the tjought that it doesnt matter to your baby. It does.


I have a 3 year old that still wakes up in the night almost every night!  Some people think that it's awful (and I admit to being annoyed with it myself sometimes) but it is what it is.  She seems to need that reassurance that she can call for me in the middle of the night and I will come into her room and tuck her in - or go into the bathroom with her and carry her back to bed and tuck her in. It will pass - but for now we just deal and get through it.  Sometimes DH says I should just let her cry - but I can't do that.  I think part of her problem is that she knows DS is in bed with me and she is having trouble finding her place right now - so she needs to know that I am still here for her too.  So if that means less sleep for me right now then I will do it - and once n a while I can get her to have a nap in the afternoon and I snuggle in with her then.

 

I am not very "crunchy" at all!  I don't do cloth, I eat meat, I am not into organics etc however I do homeschool (not because of religion - because I think the public school system is awful and there are drugs in the elementary schools here!) I do BF past what most people here think is "normal", I co-sleep.  But I do have a few friends who are on the same level as me - there are things that I feel strongly about - mostly I think every momma/family has to do what THEY feel is best.  I hate when people try to push their own views on other people.  Although if I had a friend who was  doing something I felt was harmful I would try to find a way to tell them.   For ex.  I have a friend -who is actually in labor as we speak - who doesn't plan to co-sleep.  So I talked to her about it since I feel that is best for everyone.  I didn't push my feelings on her just told her what I found.  BUT then she explained her reasons - her dh has sleep apnea and sleeps so deeply and has no idea what he does in his sleep - she has woken up to him fluffing his pillow on her face! so she feels like it wouldn't be safe - so she is going to have a bassinet by her bed so the baby can be close but not in danger.  So to me that is fine.  She is doing what she feels is best for her family.  But I think like Carrie said there are deal breakesr - I could not deal with someone who lets their kid CIO.  When you are a mom you talk about your kids and how you do things - those things are going to come up and I wouldn't want to have to hear about it.  I wouldn't want to always feel like I had to defend the way I do things either.

 

Anyway this may not make sense since I have been trying to write it with 2 kids talking to me, the TV on and a very loud heater coming on - and I just woke up! lol

 


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#81 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Kat ~ All but one homeschool group that I know of here is religiously based. Not just religious, either, but exclusively Christian. I stay as far away from those groups as possible. The group I joined is secular. It was started specifically for those people who don't homeschool for religious reasons and are not all about that. I don't know if the other members believe in any god or belong to any religion except one and she's Wiccan. The differences we have are about unschooling vs. school at home, but no one hassles me about that, and parenting and crunchy stuff, I guess. We don't discuss parenting so there aren't any overt issues there. I don't always like the way the other moms speak to their children. Sometimes it's downright mean and disrespectful. I don't like my kids seeing or hearing it. But, it's also very common and unavoidable, I think, so we have to be around it if we want to get out and have friends.

Aside from breastfeeding, I don't think any of them are very crunchy. I don't even consider myself very crunchy, though. I'm interested in NFL but I don't live it much. I'd be more NFL if I had access to more and could afford it. I tried buying almost everything organic at the grocery store a few days ago just to see how much it would cost. I spent $270 and had to go back to the grocery store 3 days later!

I don't really like the term, "crunchy". It's so subjective and relative. What does it even mean? Compared to most military spouses, I'm very crunchy and fanatically AP, but I've known other people that extremely surpass me in their crunchiness, maybe not APness. I guess no matter what I'm fanatically AP. Sheepish.gif

I think I'm a lot like you, Kat. I don't judge other people for their lifestyle choices. Take the religion thing you brought up. Most people here are Southern Baptists and they are a very strange lot to me. I don't really care what they believe, though, as long as they don't try to make me believe it. I don't go around trying to convert people to atheism. I'm afraid that people think I judge them when I talk about things that are important to me, though. I haven't figured out how to talk about formula vs. breastfeeding or CIO vs. co-sleeping/bedsharing without coming across to others as judgmental, which I don't mean to be. So, I have learned over the years to bite my tongue and not offer my opinion unless asked. Even that gets me in trouble sometimes because I think a lot of times people ask because they want to be told that what they are doing is fine and I don't always do that.

I don't understand why people freak out over a young child waking at night. It's perfectly natural. I hear that complaint all the time from parents who sleep train and/or do strict bedtimes. If it happens to almost everyone, then it's not a problem. I remember when I was 5 or 6 purposely falling out of the top bunk of my bed in the middle of the night so my mother would come for me. hehe Did you all see that article about how our natural sleep patterns may actually involve two broken 4 hour blocks of sleep rather than one 8 hour block?

Carrie ~ I don't go to LLL meetings anymore. I've never had the experience you describe but then I've never really asked for help with things. I went regularly for a few months after Kellen was born but quickly realized that after breastfeeding 2 babies already, there wasn't much they could teach me. I have to say, I was pretty upset by that health department sponsored add showing the famous sports dad bottle feeding regardless of what was in the bottle. I think it should have been pulled. If the add was about family and supporting it (which was the impression I got from the article, although it was never quite clear what the ad was really for), why wasn't mom in the picture breastfeeding? If she doesn't breastfeed at all or couldn't be there, there was no need to show baby being fed at all.

Dylan is still asleep! It's 10:50 am. I don't think he woke much during the night, either. I kind of feel like I should wake him but then I shouldn't. Oh, and my left breast is still really hurting. The pain seems to be spreading like it's deep inside and all the way around rather than just at the spot where he originally bit me. There's a constant dull ache and a very strong, sharp pain when he nurses.

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#82 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 08:27 AM
 
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 I have to say, I was pretty upset by that health department sponsored add showing the famous sports dad bottle feeding regardless of what was in the bottle. I think it should have been pulled. If the add was about family and supporting it (which was the impression I got from the article, although it was never quite clear what the ad was really for), why wasn't mom in the picture breastfeeding? If she doesn't breastfeed at all or couldn't be there, there was no need to show baby being fed at all.


Hmm, I probably should have looked into it more than I did then.  I agree with what you are saying.  I thought it was just a picture in a random ad and LLL got up in arms over bottle use, period.  I didn't realize it was a health dept ad!  

 

I agree also about the meetings.  I would like to go help new moms w/bf'ing, but it's hard to get the kids up and out by 830 am just to maybe help others.

 

I just had an awful mommy moment.  I yelled at Nora b/c she woke up Finn as I was trying to get him down.  I'm so sick and tired of her waking him up JUST as he's going to fall asleep.  She flipped on a really noisy toy, and when I asked her to shut it off, she said, "No!"  I got up while nursing him to turn it off, and she began screaming at me!  I am so bad at controlling my anger when she screams at me.  I always yell back.  I feel awful now.  And what did it fix?  Nothing.  She's mad, I'm mad,  and finn didnt sleep.  I screwed that one up. eyesroll.gif

 

1ht

 

Oh and yes on the diff bw crunchy and ap!!  I think thats a good point.  I'm not sure what i am anymore...def more ap than not but some days like today,  i really suck at GD.

 


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#83 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, that ad was made by the Australian (maybe, I know it was another country) Health Department and said something about how that guy takes care of his kids. I'm not sure what the actual purpose of the ad was. Maybe to communicate how important dads are in the care of children? I found it curious that the mother wasn't in it at all.

I would like to go to LLL meetings to offer my support and help. The main reason I gave up on that was that I found that most moms there either had very simple questions that any leader could answer or they wanted info on weaning. I can't help with active weaning and if I mentioned that I don't wean like that, I'd get funny looks from the other moms (not from the leaders). That's why I don't think I could be a LLL leader or LC. I'd be one of those that everyone else thought was fanatical and no one would like me. smile.gif

I'm bad about that sort of thing, too. I tend to yell back when my kids yell. I have also found that a lot of times I have to yell just to be heard. I can say Kellen's name a gazillion times quietly and he won't even look up, much less stop what he's doing and listen. I can't always get up and go to him. Sometimes I can't even catch him because he's running and jumping all over the place. So, I yell because that gets his attention. I hate that we've somehow got to the point that yelling is the way to get his attention. It was the same way with Ryan. Ethan is much more responsive to just talking.

Recently, I've had to send Ethan and Kellen upstairs when I think Dylan is trying to fall asleep. I have asked and asked for them to be quiet but they are incapable. I don't mean that in a bad way. I just think they don't have to capacity to understand what being quiet so Dylan can fall and stay asleep means. They think they are talking quietly but it's loud enough to get Dylan's attention. I'll shoosh them and they swear they are lowering their volumes but I can't tell. Now Ethan gets mad at me for sending them upstairs but there's nothing else I can do. I've tried laying down with Dylan in my room when I think it's nap time but he rarely falls asleep and then I get very frustrated.

It's so frustrating trying to balance everything with an active toddler and a baby. I haven't figured it out.

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#84 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 09:56 AM
 
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I don't mind the term crunchy. Even though it's related to granola (which I guess alot of natural minded people - crunchy haha - eat) and I don't really like granola. I'm def AP. except I do use baby stuff like excersaucers and bouncers and playgyms . . . my kids like them, and I like having a safe place to put them that they enjoy.

 

When I lived in Okinawa and had a Wiccan in my philosophy of religion class, none of the other students understood how we could disagree so much about religion and still be friendly. I guess so many people are used to Christians beating people over the head with religion. I'm not like that. The people at the church we go to and love aren't like that. They are more about living out the message of love and generosity and letting people come to them. I like that.

 

Yelling is sometimes necessary. it is when it's used as a fear tactic that I really don't like it. My Grandma and Aunt parent that way. my cousins are always shocked when spoken to in a normal tone of voice. it's kind of sad.

 

The difficulty I have when around people who parent differently than we do, is their tendency to offer advice. I'm not complaining about stuff, but they feel the need to offer suggestions and books about parenting. Like before Gabe moved into his own bed full time (on his own! before he was 2!) - I didn't mind co-sleeping. I am perfectly happy NOT co-sleeping with him too. Sometimes all you are looking for as a parent is a little commiseration while you're in the trenches, not necessarily solutions for things that aren't even problems.

 


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#85 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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see, i don't see using baby contraptions as not AP. i think it depends on how you use them. if you use them as ways to entertain your baby when he wants, that can be a good thing. if you use them to keep your baby contained so you can ignore him, not so good. kwim?

AP can be hard to define, too. I don't think it's so much a list of things to do or not do as a philosophy of how to treat babies and children. It's about being responsive to a child's wants and needs in a positive way and respecting the child as an individual person. There are some things that are definitely not AP, like CIO and spanking, but I think if you grasp and agree with the philosophy, those things probably won't be in your parenting tool box.

crunchy is harder for me to define. does it mean only using and eating natural things, no synthetics, no medicines, no processed foods, no electronics, living a minimalist lifestyle? how is anyone even able to do that? in my ideal world, my family would only eat natural whole foods obtained from local sources. we'd never eat fast food or TV dinners. we'd have only a few wooden, open-ended play toys. we wouldn't watch TV because we'd be too busy doing other things. but when i talk to other parents who try to live that way, they seem very controlling, like the parents who won't allow their children to play with make up or dress up like princesses. That goes against my idea of respecting children as individuals. IDK. That's a harder one for me to reconcile.

I know I'm crunchy as compared to the mainstream but I don't think I'm crunchy when compared to the crunchy community.

Yeah, parenting differences don't have to be a problem as long as people don't try to tell me what to do with my children. I can't be friends with someone who is very harsh and controlling, though. I don't want my kids hanging around parents who hit their children in front of mine just like I wouldn't be friends with someone who hit his or her spouse or went around routinely getting into fights with others. I don't want my kids to have to endure that kind of violence.

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#86 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 11:59 AM
 
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I am slowly trying to convince my MIL that spanking isn't a good idea. It doesn't teach kids anything, other than that it's ok to hit. (and when spanking is done in response to your child  doing something violent, I really don't understand the point) Since Wayne stopped spanking Gabe, Gabe has been 100% less violent. To me, that speaks volumes. (and to Wayne too, but MIL . . . I think she doesn't think we discipline Gabe at all, since we don't really do traditional methods of discipline)

 

I don't think my parents regret spanking me (or my sister) but I do think they see how we work with Gabe on things and that there are other, alternative ways to coax acceptable behaviour out of children. That's not quite the phrasing I want, but it comes close.

 

I think a real crunchy lifestyle would be difficult. There are things I try very hard to avoid - HFCS, certain food dyes, MSG, some artificial sweeteners, artificial foods in general . . . but it seems impossible to do this 100%. That is another thing I like about my parents as housemates. They totally "get" reading labels and things. MIL does not. she goes with whatever is cheap.

 

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I think that there is a distinction between NFL and AP like MW was pointing out. I have friends in my circle that are very NFL...they are living in a yurt as we speak! I tend to be more in line w/akind1. If you have researched your decision and you are coming from a place of an educated decision, then that's fine by me. It's the mamas that make parenting decisions because a spouse or family member is pushing them in to doing or not doing something that I don't agree with. I don't understand some of the mamas in my birth circle that are gung ho for having a natural, unmedicated birth but then almost blindly follow vaccine schedules. headscratch.gif

 

I definitely am on the more mainstream end of NFL, mostly because of finances. I can't afford to feed my family only organic. We don't have space to have a garden or compost. I'd probably do some version of that if we did have the space. But I don't automatically reach for meds, I try to keep HFCS, caffeine, and colors away from my kids. I rarely turn the TV on and prefer if it stays off most of the time. But we have plastic toys in the house. I think it's a spectrum not an all or nothing thing.


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#88 of 396 Old 03-06-2012, 10:39 PM
 
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see, i don't see using baby contraptions as not AP. i think it depends on how you use them. if you use them as ways to entertain your baby when he wants, that can be a good thing. if you use them to keep your baby contained so you can ignore him, not so good. kwim?
AP can be hard to define, too. I don't think it's so much a list of things to do or not do as a philosophy of how to treat babies and children. It's about being responsive to a child's wants and needs in a positive way and respecting the child as an individual person. There are some things that are definitely not AP, like CIO and spanking, but I think if you grasp and agree with the philosophy, those things probably won't be in your parenting tool box.

Yes! Too many people assume that to be AP you must also practice extreme natural family living-- and then these things together make you crunchy. But you can certainly practice one or the other alone. It's just that most people who practice one, practice at least a degree of the other one. 

 

I've found on my local AP group, there are definitely people who equate not being completely anti-medicine and natural living as being anti-attachment parenting. But that's not the case. They lose sight of the fact that as you said, AP isn't a laundry list of things you must do-- it's the idea of doing whatever it takes so that your child is securely attached to you, and feels listened to, respected, valued, etc. Yes, those things -tend- to be more likely related to parents who co-sleep, don't vax, exclusively breastfeed, delay solids, practice BLW, wear their babies, don't let them CIO, etc etc... but like MW said, with the exception of CIO and spanking, the rest of those will be different for every family. Different means to an end. 

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I definitely am on the more mainstream end of NFL, mostly because of finances. I can't afford to feed my family only organic. We don't have space to have a garden or compost. I'd probably do some version of that if we did have the space. But I don't automatically reach for meds, I try to keep HFCS, caffeine, and colors away from my kids. I rarely turn the TV on and prefer if it stays off most of the time. But we have plastic toys in the house. I think it's a spectrum not an all or nothing thing.

That's us too. I think if finances and time were not an issue, there's a lot more NFL practices we would employ. I'd love to eat all organic, but money won't allow. I'd love to grow some of our own veggies- but haven't been able to find the time. I'd love to use all only natural cleaning products and body care products-- but while most of the stuff I use is, some of the items I have would take too much effort and time to switch over right now, so we don't. I limit the meds, I don't run to the doctor every time DD smiles funny, I try to eat more healthy natural foods than processed, etc etc. I think my ideal version of our natural family living is a lot 'crunchier' than the one we're currently living. *shrugs* We'll get there one day. 

 

I'm also more into AP and NFL than most of society... but then I joined our local AP group and compared to a lot of them, I'm very mainstream. It's all a matter of who you compare yourself to... and really in the end, as long as it works for you, who care about what anyone else labels you. 


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#89 of 396 Old 03-07-2012, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I would love to have my own veggie garden. I tried growing a box garden for 2 or 3 years here but I couldn't get it to produce anything edible. Part of the problem is that I don't really know anything about growing plants. The other problem is that I don't have the time or motivation to keep up with it the way it needed. Maybe someday...

I define NFL as more of a list of all or nothing dos and don'ts than AP. With AP, there are things that can make practicing it easier, like EBF, co-sleeping/bedsharing, babywearing, etc., but none of them are necessary. However, with NFL, I don't think you can say that you live naturally if you eat processed or fast food (maybe any restaurant food), have plastic, use conventional chemical cleaners. IDK I guess I define "natural" a lot more strictly than I define "attachment".

That's probably why I have such a hard time NFL and periodically just completely give up. I go through phases where I try to live as naturally as possible until it hits me that it's impossible. I don't have access to or enough money to buy everything to be natural. Then I say, "F it!" and just get a bunch of conventional stuff and take my kids through the drive through 3 nights a week because it seems hopeless to try. If I could embrace the idea that every little bit counts or helps, maybe it would be easier for me.

My kids and food and toys are two difficult ones for me. I try to steer them toward more healthy choices but I'm also not going to deny them something they really want because I say it's unhealthy. Ethan and I were talking about organic food on the way to the grocery store the other day. After I explained the difference between organic and industrial food, he said, "So, before we had access to organic food we ate industrial food?" Yes..."And we're not sick or dead so it's ok, Mom." He has a point. None of us can know if eating organic vs. industrial food will keep any one of us from getting cancer. It might help the Earth some but maybe not for many reasons. Is it really worth it? Maybe it's better to buy locally, if you can. But, what do you do if you don't have access to locally produced food or at least not year round? It's all too much for me to try to figure out.

I approach toys the same way. I try to suggest more environmentally friendly toys but, again, I'm not going to refuse to get one of my boys a toy he really wants just because it's plastic or was made in China. I used to put more value on "educational" type toys but after watching my boys play with several different kinds of toys over the years, I've learned that they all have value. My boys make up completely different games and stories and whatnot with what many people think are close-ended toys and games that are made to be played with only one way. Just because something is made that way doesn't mean it has to be used that way and my boys are very good at coming up with different ways of using just about everything. Are wooden toys really better than plastic if we have to worry about lead paint or whether or not it was made from sustainable wood? Is a Waldorf doll and a bunch of play silks really better for the child if that child's access to entertaining and educational media is strictly limited? Is my concern for the environment and humanity in the abstract more important than my child's interests and wants? I don't think so.

Anyway, I'm rambling now. Dylan kept me up until 1 or 1:130 am. He took a nap from about 8:30-9:30 or 10 and was up. Ugh. I went ahead and woke him up this morning when I got up even though he probably would have slept longer. I'm hoping that will help reset his clock again.

knit.gifSAHM to 3 boys and 1 man; 22 jammin.gif, 9REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, 5 FIREdevil.gifand now 1 year oldtoddler.gif!

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#90 of 396 Old 03-07-2012, 08:09 AM
 
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I am different in that I would deny our kids something blatantly unhealthy. Red food dye makes Gabe nearly uncontrollable. It is something that is worth avoiding, I don't care how much he wants it. If Gabe wanted wanted a toy I didn't want him to have (IDK, like a rated M video game or something) I am not going to let him have it just because he wants it.

 

But I also think part of what I want to do as a parent is to help my kids want healthy things. not just food, but things that are healthy for their minds and spirits too. I try to figure out why he wants something (or think he wants it) -sometimes it is more important to meet that need than the surface "i wants" - like getting towards bed time Gabe heads to the kitchen and asks for everything he can see. Even if you gave him that, he wouldn't eat it. He's actually just really tired and wants to sleep (but doesn't want to all at the same time)

 

or like, sometimes he's acting out and what he wants/needs is just one on one time with one of us. Re: toys . . . . we don't buy many. We have lots, but most of them are gifts. We try to really think about whether he'll play with it and how much before we spend $$ on it. I am sure that will change as he gets older. I think all toys teach something.

 

On a completely different note: Pumping went better today than last time; I am back to about average. 7 oz this morning, and hopefully another 3-4 this afternoon.


Katrina - Mama to Gabriel  sleepytime.gif 11/20/2009 and Norah vbac.gif 10/11/2011- married to Wayne - geek.gif novaxnocirc.gifbfinfant.giffamilybed1.gifcd.gif&nbspand now new baby Theodore born 3/11/13 vbac.gif

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