HELP! My 15 month old son doesnt sleep! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 39 Old 03-22-2013, 08:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by graciegal View Post

There is no normal. It's JUST as normal for a 15 month old to "get it" and sleep through the night (like my daughter did) than it is for one to NOT get it and be troubled with sleeping and such. Case in point: my DS is a HORRIBLE sleeper and has been since birth. Wakes up every 2 hours at night, sleeps 10-20 minute naps once -maybe- twice a day. My nephew was born 16 days after my son and my sister has to set an alarm to wake up to feed him at night. He will sleep ALL night if left be. AND he takes several hour long naps during the day.

 

I think that mom's mental health is so important and if she needs to try everything under the sun to see if it works (including CIO) that's so much better than suffering silently because her kid can't figure out how to sleep yet.

 

And to the poster who said that people who use CIO have depressed and angry kids, seriously....almost all of us were taught how to sleep using CIO since the dawn of time. I'm willing to bet the person who said that above was, too.

 

Nobody argued that the mom's mental health isn't important - all that's being said is that the mental health of BOTH mom and baby are important.  Further, the mother is an adult.  She is able to seek advice about gentle alternatives, as well as support.  She is able to put herself in her child's shoes and weigh both sides.  She is also able to reframe her expectations and take comfort in the fact that this behavior falls under "normal."  And yes, mothers are able to make personal sacrifices for the well-being of their children.  (If OP is so sleep-deprived that she isn't able to care for her child, absolutely something has to give.  But I think most mothers would like more sleep, and can gain strength simply from commiseration and support.)  

 

A child is not equipped to do any of those things - a child has NEEDS, pure and simple.  Gentle methods that work with those needs are appropriate on mothering.com - CIO, which is essentially abandonment, is absolutely NOT.  It has been proven to lead to higher rates of anxiety and depression, less independence, and even lower intelligence.  It is also most certainly not a practice that has existed since the "dawn of time" but rather a product of the 20th century.

 

For a quick refresher on the detriments of CIO (which are real and lasting):

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out

 

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fussy-baby/science-says-excessive-crying-could-be-harmful

 

I can find more links.

 

To the OP - some other ideas - Can you transfer your lil one back into the house after he's asleep?  If so, is there any way you can use that time to nap, too, and let the housework go a little?  Do you have anyone who can give you a little bit of extra help with housework, or watch the lil one so you can take a nap?  Every little bit helps. hug.gif

 

Do you baby wear?  I sometimes had luck getting my son to nap in the carrier if we were on a long walk or dancing around the room and singing - then I'd often keep him on my chest and nap with him.  Have you tried an extra snack before bedtime?  Sometimes that will cut down on night feedings, or at least give you a longer stretch in the beginning.  We also had luck with nighttime EC for a time (he woke up less and fell back asleep quicker when he was dry).

 

We are in the same boat with DS, but I've never nightweaned or used a sleep training method - hopefully others can comment with their experience, if you are still around.

 

(edited after re-reading OP)


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#32 of 39 Old 03-22-2013, 10:13 AM
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Reading this thread makes me feel sick to see what mothering.com has allowed itself to turn into.  It use to be a haven for those of us that raise our children gently and instinctively. and a resource and a support place for those inspired to move in that direction.  Now it is just like every other forum where people are allowed to discuss and advocate their harsh treatment of their own children.  I will no longer lend my time and experience through posting here.  I really miss the old mothering.com.  What is the alternative forum now that mothering.com has lost it's gentle instinctive parenting focus?

 

I'm very sorry you feel this way.  We have found that meeting mothers where they are, and encouraging discussion and information giving is better than shutting people down cold.

 

If a mod had swooped into this thread, deleted posts and shut the discussion down that would have not been helpful for the OP, other people reading along - who possibly might need the very same help. :)

 

Sometimes, these discussions need to be had.  Turning to CIO is an easy thing when you are tired and frustrated and at the end of your rope.  Rather than meeting those desperate moments with a wall of disapproval, let's give the moms who need it more information, options, possible solutions that don't involve CIO. But some of the onus is on the members to help us with that.  Mods are few, members are many and a wealth of information. Help the other moms out. 

 

As for the person who thought there was too much gentle gentle talk on mothering - yeah, that kind of is what we are here.  smile.gif  


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#33 of 39 Old 03-22-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mjt80 View Post

Hi, I am looking for advice. I have a VERY stubborn son who is 15 months old. He still needs to nurse to sleep, wakes up 4 times a night and will only nap if I drive him around. Its crazy and I am ready to break the cycle.

I have been trying to decide whether to use the Ferber method or the sleep shuffle. My son hates to go in his crib when he is awake so I know either method is going to be tough. I have tried the Ferber method before and he just throws up after only a couple minutes. I am worried though that if I sit in his room by his crib he will just freak out even more than I am not picking him up. Any suggestions? I need some sleep too!!

 

Some kids wake up more than others.  My daughter nursed every couple of hours all night long until she was close to 3.  

 

I never was able to put my kids down awake.  Ever.  Just the movement of putting them down while drowsy would wake them all the way up.  I found that I needed to nurse lying down, so I didn't have to move them afterwards.  Would that be possible? A different sleeping solution than a crib?  

 

Obviously, if you have tried Ferber and he ends up throwing up then that is not an optimum solution for either of you.  And making him that upset repeatedly can't be good for him, and it isn't helping him get to sleep either. And that really is the most important bit about sleeping situations that it works for everyone.  If it doesn't work for him he keeps you awake and if it doesn't work for you you are still awake. LOL  Driving around is not a sustainable solution either, I agree.  

 

I would recommend the No Cry Sleep Solution as well.  I have heard folks have really good luck with that.

 

Additionally I would get a bedtime routine really set in stone.  Watch his cues, put him down when he is sleepy.  The thing we found is that trying to put a baby down who is not sleepy was useless, can't make someone fall asleep if they aren't sleepy.  We also found that putting our daughter down after the sleepy window meant that she got a second wind and it made it impossible to get her down for  much longer.  So watch him, and try to get him in bed when that sleepy window hits.  

 

I am assuming cocleeping isn't an option?  If it is, you might explore that and side lying nursing.  

 

Good luck, it looks like other folks have had some good recommendations.  It is so hard when you're tired.  My 7 month old is in a developmental kick where she wakes a lot right now, and I'm wiped too. :( I hope it eases for you soon.


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#34 of 39 Old 03-22-2013, 10:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AdinaL View Post
Watch his cues, put him down when he is sleepy.  The thing we found is that trying to put a baby down who is not sleepy was useless, can't make someone fall asleep if they aren't sleepy.  We also found that putting our daughter down after the sleepy window meant that she got a second wind and it made it impossible to get her down for  much longer.  So watch him, and try to get him in bed when that sleepy window hits.  

 

I am assuming cocleeping isn't an option?  If it is, you might explore that and side lying nursing.  

 

Good luck, it looks like other folks have had some good recommendations.  It is so hard when you're tired.  My 7 month old is in a developmental kick where she wakes a lot right now, and I'm wiped too. :( I hope it eases for you soon.

 

thumbsup.gif all of this - especially watching for cues - I noticed that made a BIG difference.  It's not always textbook, every kid is different, but it may include things like stumbling around, increased irritability, eye-rubbing, pouting, asking to nurse, etc.  Often I realized I waited until far too late, when DS was so wound up and hyper (in an effort to seek stimulation to keep awake) that it was twice as hard for him to switch to sleep.  Sometimes kids are ready for sleep much earlier than we realize.  


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#35 of 39 Old 03-22-2013, 11:22 AM
 
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Why post here if you are looking for different advice?


you are right, she should now by now that mothering is not the forum to seek/tell advice re: CIO.


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#36 of 39 Old 03-22-2013, 12:04 PM
 
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While a 15 month old waking four times in the night might be normal, it also sounds like it's not sustainable for this particular mama.  Just like all babies are different, all mamas are different in their abilities to cope with prolonged sleep deprivation.  I cannot handle that kind of night waking.  I'm a zombie and it makes me a bad mother during the day.  I also have an intellectually demanding job, so being sleep deprived for 2 years at a time is simply not an option.  Our 7 month old is sleeping pretty much through the night thanks in part to the No Cry Sleep Solution but also to my working very hard to teach my daughter about nighttime activities and what sleep is. 

One of the things I like about Pantley's approach in the NCSS is that she asks the reader to assess whether her child's sleeping patterns are really a problem or are just a problem because people are making comments about it.  For some mamas, nursing multiple times a night is no problem at all.  For other mamas, it's torture.

The OP reached out because she's frustrated enough that she is debating Ferberizing her child.  Telling her that it's normal for kids to wake this often is obviously not the right answer for this particular mama.  In my opinion though, the Ferber method and any other CIO method is not the right answer for any child.  But there are middle grounds to be found.  I personally liked the NCSS and Pantley's gentle methods.  Other people have have success with the Sleep Sense approach.  There must be other gentle methods folks around here can recommend that don't involve simply saying "suck it up".  I hope the OP finds some rest soon!  Good luck.
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#37 of 39 Old 03-22-2013, 12:07 PM
 
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If the Sleep Sense program is the one by Dana Obleman, it's basically a CIO with the choice of you watching it instead of just listening from another room. NCSS is a method with much gentler suggestions.
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#38 of 39 Old 03-23-2013, 06:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bouncymummy View Post

If the Sleep Sense program is the one by Dana Obleman, it's basically a CIO with the choice of you watching it instead of just listening from another room. NCSS is a method with much gentler suggestions.


I actually know nothing about the Sleep Sense program.  I mentioned it because someone upthread (or on a different thread) mentioned it as a "gentler" solution.  But I had great success personally with NCSS and NEVER let my daughter CIO.  I apologize if I muddied the waters by mentioning a program I'm not actually familiar with. 

 

For what it's worth, to the PP who was concerned that CIO was "advocated" upthread.... The mods stepped in twice to remind people of the user agreement.  And the Mothering community stepped in to gently educate and provide alternatives.  That's the definition of a healthy community, in my opinion.  I think Adina is absolutely right that shutting down and deleting threads is not the way to go.  Not allowing any mention of CIO makes it impossible to have a robust discussion of why gentler methods are ALWAYS better.  I think it's really important that we recognize that people who may not understand what Mothering is about will stumble across these threads by googling and we shouldn't seek to alienate them or make them feel like awful mothers but we should instead try to gently educate them about why AP methods are so much better for both babies and mothers. 


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#39 of 39 Old 02-01-2014, 06:30 PM
 
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this new article might provide some reassurance: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201302/normal-human-infant-sleep-feeding-method-and-development

great link!

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