At what point do I decide I am not doing the best thing? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DS just turned 1 year. He is 14 lbs and 26 inches. He hasn't gained anything in the past few months.
He is refusing to eat solids, so he gets most of his nutrition from momma milk.
I usually work (just started a month break) 4 hours a day outside my home. He nurses all night long. Until four days ago all night long meant every 2 hours and I could usually sleep through it and he did too.
But now he literally wants to nurse all night long. There isn't enough milk to do that. His little tummy was grumbling last night and I felt so bad!

DD was also small and followed the same growth pattern, she DID eat solid food. BUT she slept longer.

DR wants me to take him to the Feeding Clinic. I had a bad experience with them with DD(their advice: give her hot dogs and cheetos and douse everything in butter so she will gain weight!)

I was holding out trying to let him decide to eat on his own, but the poor boy is so hungry at night that he can't sleep!

At what point do I admit that I am harming him more than helping him?
Any advice? Do I take him to the feeding clinic? I offer him a million things to eat a day. Occassionally he will eat a baked french fry, some yogurt, a cracker, or a few pieces of o type cereal.
I offer him everything that we eat...and more!

I am tired, he is tired and hungry and I just don't know what else to do.

thanks
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#2 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 03:49 PM
 
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Trust your instincts. Do you think there's anything wrong with him? Does he still look and act healthy? Are you worried just because of what the doc said, or is there some other reason that has you concerned?

If he will eat certain solid foods, maybe you can have whoever watches him while you are at work offer those to him. If he really likes pears (for example) it won't hurt him to eat them three times a day. With my oldest DD (who has always been tiny and "off the charts") I have to just leave healthy snacks sitting out where she can get them whenever she feels like it, that's the only way I can get her to eat much of anything at all, and she's three! Doc also told me to give her cookies and junk to "fatten her up" like that would make her healthier or something? I think not! A nutritious diet IMO is more important than my child fitting the stupid growth charts.
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#3 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 03:54 PM
 
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What about a naturopath? I took my girls to one when they were that small for a similar issue however they were 14 months and 14 pounds. My girls are now big healthy 7 year old and you would never know this had been an issue. Goodluck to you and remember mother knows best
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#4 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 04:03 PM
 
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Do you feel like something is wrong? I don't trust the growth charts either, but if he is hungry, thats different.

My neice has celiac's disease so I always think of it first. It is also way more common than anyone wants to admit. It can cause the body to stop absorbing nutrients and cause slow weight gain because the intestines are damaged by the gluten. It can also be the cause of aversion to solid food.

I also agree that the food clinics give horrible nutrition advice. They told my sister to give her dd milkshakes with choc. syrup and ensure all the time just for some arbitrary weight gain, despite the fact that she was healthy.

HTH!

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#5 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stafl
Trust your instincts. Do you think there's anything wrong with him? Does he still look and act healthy? Are you worried just because of what the doc said, or is there some other reason that has you concerned?
Up until a few days ago I was fine with things they way they were. He is very active and healthy, just tiny.

But the past few nights he hasn't been able to sleep weel, and I do think it is from him being hungry. Also I noticed that during the day he is getting grumpier quicker, I think that is lack of sleep.

I honestly don't care what the DR said, he also said that the reason he was so small was because he nurses at night and night milk has less calories than day milk... WHATEVER!

But after last night when we were both up at 4 am crying and his tummy was growling even though he had been nursing all night I decided that something needs to change. I must not be meeting his needs.

Thanks again
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#6 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by 3 little birds

My neice has celiac's disease so I always think of it first. It is also way more common than anyone wants to admit. It can cause the body to stop absorbing nutrients and cause slow weight gain because the intestines are damaged by the gluten. It can also be the cause of aversion to solid food.
We actually went through this with DD. She was eating solids and nursing and still tiny. SHe was tested for celiac and it was negative. She has a humoungous growth spurt at 18 months.

I just don't know.

Thanks
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#7 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 04:11 PM
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Could he be going through a growth spurt? Teething? Follow your instincts (which it sounds like you are).


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#8 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane~Alena
What about a naturopath?
Thanks for the suggestion.

That is something that is out of the question right now because of this month long break, but once work starts back up and if this is still ongoing I will do this!
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#9 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by bec
Follow your instincts (which it sounds like you are).


Bec
Honestly at this point I am so tired and everything feels so muddles taht I don't know what they are... other than something must be done.
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#10 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aslmere
Honestly at this point I am so tired and everything feels so muddles taht I don't know what they are... other than something must be done.

But from your own words, you thought everything was fine up to a few days ago. That is your trigger. You started feeling something was wrong, that he is "hungry" and that you are "harming" him, that "something must be done." This is your instincts speaking to you. You don't sound muddled in your writing. You sound very worried, clear and articulate.

If you don't like what your doctor is saying, get a new one. If you don't like the feeding clinic (and telling you to simply go for low nutrition, high saturated fats doesn't sound like good advice), then don't go back.

to you mama.


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#11 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 05:20 PM
 
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I have know a lot of small children at a year, but I have to admit that a one year old weighing less than 15 pounds concerns me, and I'm pretty easygoing. I believe that all kids have their own growth curve and putting butter on everything for the sake of weight gain is sort of silly.

However, the fact that you can hear his stomach growl would concern me, as well as break my heart if I were his mom. This may not be popular advice, but if it were me, I wouldn't by any means give up breastfeeding, but I would probably suppliment with formula in between nursing (in a sippy cup if my kids would take it so he wouldn't be getting his sucking needs from a bottle) for a month or so and see if he puts on any weight with the extra calories from formula. My ds3 was 14 lbs and 25 inches at his two month check up so you can see why I'm sort of alarmed that your son is at one year the size of my son at two months.

If I were you, I would avoid the food clinic if at all possible and try to get his weigh up on your own soon. I have had friends take their children to the clinic at the hospital here and they give all the same advice about upping calories. However, realize that their first concern is for your child (though it may not seem like it all the time) and they have to consider the fact that (and I'm definitely not accusing you, just giving you information) you could be to blame for his weight. They have to consider that you could have munchousin byproxy (I know I butchered that spelling) and are starving him for attention. I'm sure you aren't, but some people do and the hospitals need to consider it because sadly enough it happens. One of my neighbor's friends had a son who was around 17 pounds at 18 months and they told her that if he didn't gain a pound in a month that they would hospitalize him for a week. She would have to be at the hospital and they would observe them interacting to be sure that she was adequately caring for him.

I know all that sounds awful, but I've seen enough news reports to know that sometimes all the precautions the hospitals and doctors take really are for the best for the child because there is neglect and abuse happening. However, it sucks for people like you who are truly worried and doing all you can for your child and are genuinly good parents. I know this is all scary to hear, but I want to make sure that you know what can happen. Doctors can be a great resource, and I don't want to scare you from seeking help if your son really needs it, but they have to consider EVERYTHING. Even the worse case scenerio. Just be aware of that going in, and stay aware that they document everything, not just the feeding issues.

I wish you good luck and I will keep you in my prayers.
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#12 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 05:24 PM
 
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It sounds like he's wanting to eat something more substantial but something holding him back from trying solids. Have you let him play with his food on the tray, just play and explore? Does he put toys in his mouth and explore them okay, and drink from a sippy cup?

My dd is severely feeding aversive. She eats by tube only. Up until recently she was at least eating some by mouth through a bottle, but this week she has learned how to spit stuff out, so that's that. She's only 6 mos. old and we are going to our first official feeding therapy session after the eval last month. She doesn't vocalize well and doesn't explore things by mouth very well, so this is an all-around problem for her growth and development.

I was kinda nervous about going to the feeding clinic for the eval but the therapist is very gentle and focuses on the positive things. If you feel the need to get him assessed, it's not a big deal, and the state may even cover it for you through Early Intervention. You can call your school district for more info. Testing is free and if he qualifies, the therapy will be free too.

I don't want to alarm you because every baby grows differently, but mine is almost 7 mos. and 16 pounds, and she is average for her size. 14 pounds for a 12 month old seems small to me, but then, people come in different sizes. His weight alone is not something to be concerned about, but if there's a bigger picture of some delays with stuff, it might be worth checking out.

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#13 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 09:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAmma
His weight alone is not something to be concerned about, but if there's a bigger picture of some delays with stuff, it might be worth checking out.

thanks for saying this. Some babies are small, that alone is no cause for concern! My oldest DD was just barely 15 pounds at one year, and has always been perfectly healthy and developmentally at or above average in every way. It is a very hurtful thing to hear someone tell you that somehow your child is defective, or that you aren't doing what's in your child's best interests. I know, I have put up with that stuff DD's entire life. She's just small, there's nothing wrong with that, but there sure is a lot of social stigma that goes along with being the mother of a small child.

...I've more to say on this but here comes one scary thunderstorm!!!
Anyway, see if you can get him to eat more solids, if you think that will help. Find another doctor if you think that is best. Again, trust those instincts of yours!
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#14 of 25 Old 08-24-2004, 10:11 PM
 
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As a mother and a pediatric nurse I must admit that this situation is a bit concerning... yes, everything may be just fine and this may be normal for your ds. However, it's hard to say that without a bit more information.

1) How much did ds weigh at birth? As a *general* guideline (and of course there are exceptions) the majority of babies will double their birthweight by 6 months and triple it by one year. So if he was quite small at birth and/or premature 14 pounds at one year could be just right. For example, Diane~Alena mentioned that her girls were 14 pounds at 14 months, and her signature says that they were born at 29 weeks. So that weight sounds about right then.

2) How much is ds nursing in the daytime? Do you have any concerns about your milk supply overall?

3) When you were working what was ds eating during that time and how much?

Like I said (and many other posters too), this could be normal, especially since you said your dd was also small. He might be genetically meant to be this size. But I think it would be worth looking into a bit more, just to rule out any problems. That feeding clinic sounds like a bit of a nightmare Do you have any registered nutritionists/dieticians (preferably specializing in pediatrics) in the area? Or at least another doc you could see? My concern is that if it is a medical condition that is treatable, you would probably want to know about it sooner rather than later. There are some conditions that cause slow growth and that growth potential might not be made up later on.

Good luck

Kirsten
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#15 of 25 Old 08-25-2004, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Mama2Xander

1) How much did ds weigh at birth?
He was 6 lbs 3 oz at birth. At 6 months he had doubled. He hasn't put on any weight since May. My DD weighed 15 lbs at a year and followed the same pattern. She is now almost three and weighs 30 lbs. I am not as concerned about low weight as I am with the recent hunger.

2) How much is ds nursing in the daytime? Do you have any concerns about your milk supply overall?
He nurses about 6-7 times during the day. I have never had an over abundant supply, but I have always had just enough.

3) When you were working what was ds eating during that time and how much?He would drink just enough EBM out of a bottle to keep himself happy. Sometimes he would also eat some dry cereal or crackers.

That feeding clinic sounds like a bit of a nightmare Do you have any registered nutritionists/dieticians (preferably specializing in pediatrics) in the area? The feeding clinic IS the only place to go. The are nutritionists and specialize in pediatrics. I have heard excuses that they are so used to dealing with low- income people (which I am) that they have to tell them low cost ways to beef up calories.
I do have him on a months long waiting list to be evaluated by the only local occupational therapy program that deals with texture and mouth issues.

My DD was hospitalized at 11 months the Dr told me one thing and then told hospital staff another. She was put in for failure to thrive and that is NOT what he talked to me about. We are seeing a different set of pediatricians now, but unfortunately there isn't many more to choose from. I was made to feel like an inferior mother and that I was starving my daughter, even though I KNEW that she was eating a lot.
We didn't go to the feeding clinic until after that hospitalization. DD was premature and had developmental delays. I did what the DR told me I had to do (go to the feeding clinic) so that he would refer me to Physical Therapy, which is what she needed.


I guess I will give in and go to the DR again.


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#16 of 25 Old 08-25-2004, 04:54 PM
 
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If you have any concern about your milk supply, you can take Fenugreek to boost it. It's usually available at health supply stores. Taking 2 or 3 tabs three times a day should help a bit. I also took some domperidone, but it's more expensive, hard to get a prescription, and not a natural remedy, so I don't know how you'd feel about that.

Someone mentioned supplementing with formula, but I'd suspect that at a year old, it'd be hard to get him to drink formula. I'd go for goat's milk or even cow's milk first. It's both cheaper and tastes much better.

I also have a smaller baby (now 13 months) who has never been a big eater of solids, and know how devastating it can be to feel like you're not able to get him enough milk/calories. Keep the faith, and he'll gain soon.
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#17 of 25 Old 08-25-2004, 05:29 PM
 
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I haven't read all the responses, but we tackled this problem too. Anna had severe reflux from the start and was at full food refusal (we ended up bottle feeding when she wouldn't eat at all) by 8 weeks. We fed her bottles in her sleep since she was so against it. It's great that your child has a positive breastfeeding relationship - that's huge for the child to understand that feeding can be positive, even if it's not solid.

Anyways, everyone was freaking out when she continued to refused pureed or solid food up through 13 months. We were recommended to the children's hospital for the feeding team and for the infant anorexia study (uh..no, you're not studying my child). Anyways, I found a wonderful feeding program that is very "hippie-like" and child-centered. I spoke with them and loved everything about the place. Called their references and loved everything more. It was pricey and a few hours drive, and overall I decided to tackle things on my own Agressively first.

First, here's the link to this great place. At least contact them and get their newsletter or ask their opinion on a treatment plan. If your child is healthy then I'd avoid the feeding team and work with people like this who specialize in teaching eating to kids who already have medical causes under control.
http://www.new-vis.com/

Second, have you seen a pediatric allergist? I highly recommend it. It's normally a 2.5hour visit (we had to drive 3 hours to get there), but you have test results and the debrief before you leave. I have a great contact if you're near Baltimore, MD.

Third, here's a great book. I'm reading it now:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

Fourth, we're in the local Infant and Toddlers program. We have an amazing speech therpist who works with Anna on mouth movements and feeding therapy. Anna is 19months now and we're about to get booted from the program. She's doing great, but only because...

I got fed up at 13months. I knew her reflux was under control and medicated properly. We began with spoon feeding. It was quite a fight, but by the third day she ate half a bowl of applesauce and yogurt. We move into one attempt a day, to two attempts a day, to three meals. Food was always available and yes, it was the fattening stuff, really, anything she'd eat. The goal initially was to make solid food eating fun, friendly, and not a fight. I still feed her yogurt for breakfast myself. Sadly, we supplement with pediasure as well, but at least I have the doctors off my back and she's up a line on the chart. I have a lot more information on our "intervention" if you're interested. It's essentially the same techniques used at a in-patient feeding clinic modified for home use and given by mom and not some stranger. Anna now has a great relationship with food. She now knows hunger and that food fixes it. She sits at the table for meals and eats. It's been a long road... but intervention was necessary. It was totally behavioral for her and I didn't realize that until day 2 of my intervention.

For finger foods, try cheese puffs (all natural Barbaras - great for learning to chew), fruit leather, chopped chopping angel hair pasta, pasta spirals in sauce, bacon (big hit for new learners). Just remember that it's more important now for your child to establish a good relationship with food. Once they realize hunger and how to fix it then you can alter their diet and make it more healthy. Unfortunately, sometimes the healthy stuff just doesn't appeal to our picky ones while they learn this whole eat to survive thing. Please PM me if you'd like to talk. We've totally been there.
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#18 of 25 Old 08-25-2004, 05:31 PM
 
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I see that you're on the west coast. What about this:
http://www.kindering.org/626.html
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#19 of 25 Old 08-25-2004, 09:23 PM
 
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It really sounds like your little guy is having a growth spurt. Babies do NOT need to eat solids by any particular time to be healthy, in fact, BM should be the primary food for the first year and solids are considered to be merely recreational. Babies can be exclusively breastfed for years with no adverse effects on their health so long as the mother is healthy and the babe is nursing enough.

Also, most BFed babies do not gain at all from 9 mo to 15 mo, this is not only common, it's normal and healthy. Babies this age get mobile and they slim down. If he is healthy in all other ways and still getting a bit taller (even if it's 1/4"), then he is still thriving even if he's suddenly more hungry. He might have been walking more or maybe learning to run or climb and needs more food. Nursing him more will increase your supply and give him more food. This is also a common age for babies to "self-wean", when in actuality they are just getting more active and distractable and will take whatever is fast and easy so moms need to be a bit more vigilant to make sure they are nursing enough. If he's having trouble nursing enough, try nursing him in a dark room with no distractions.

FWIW, my son also gained nothing from 9 mo to 15 mo, but I was "lucky" enough to have a huge kid to start with (he was 8 15 at birth and 27 lbs by 9 mo). Since he only dropped to the 75th %ile, our Dr. wasn't concerned. It's sad when a kid who starts in the 10th % does the same thing and the drs. panic. We need people on both ends of the spectrum, that's why they are percents of 100; if all babes were 25 lbs at a year, there would be no percentages.

The size of your baby is not the only indicator of his health. Look at the whole baby and then decide if he really needs this feeding clinic.

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YoungMan (6/00) & LittleBoy (6/04)
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#20 of 25 Old 08-26-2004, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well I have an answer to the hunger and it is totally unexpected!
It isn't him... I am pregnant!

Any advice now?
I was advised to gradually wean.

I just want him to not be hungry!


Thanks
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#21 of 25 Old 08-26-2004, 01:56 PM
 
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Wow, congratulations!

Ds is 2 and still nursing, I am 17 wks along. Supply has decreased and I have been discouraging constant nursing with distraction-books, fruit, extra playtime,etc.

ETA-I also nursed my 2.5 yr old twins till I was about 5.5 months preg with ds. They VERY gradually became accustomed to eating more solid foods.

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#22 of 25 Old 08-26-2004, 02:54 PM
 
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Hi there

Definitely second the naturopath and especially homeopathy. If you cannot afford to go see one get some good homeopathy books (or borrow from library/interlibrary if possible) and see if there are remedies that might help (I really recommend seeing a classical homepath tho if you can as there are remedies that really help with this) and my ND/homeopath also treated me as well as my dd (for different issues) but makes sense especially when pg.

Good Luck and congratulations!

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#23 of 25 Old 08-26-2004, 04:30 PM
 
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Congratulations!!

I dont have any advice, I was just lurking on this post and wanted to pop in with my well-wishes!!

~Christy crochetsmilie.gif, mom to DD Sage (12-2003) joy.gif and DS Isaac (04-2012)  babyboy.gif, wife to Josh geek.gif.

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#24 of 25 Old 08-26-2004, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destinye
Hi there

Definitely second the naturopath and especially homeopathy. If you cannot afford to go see one get some good homeopathy books (or borrow from library/interlibrary if possible) and see if there are remedies that might help (I really recommend seeing a classical homepath tho if you can as there are remedies that really help with this) and my ND/homeopath also treated me as well as my dd (for different issues) but makes sense especially when pg.

Good Luck and congratulations!
Destinye
Arent you in the Spokane area too? Which ND did you see?
At this point I am willing to do whatever I can to help him eat.

Thanks
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#25 of 25 Old 08-26-2004, 07:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aslmere
Destinye
Arent you in the Spokane area too? Which ND did you see?
At this point I am willing to do whatever I can to help him eat.

Thanks
Hi there

For my dd I saw Todd A. Schlapfer
COEUR D'ALENE HEALING ARTS
520 Coeur D'Alene Ave. Suite 100
Coeur D'Alene, ID, 83814
Phone: (208) 664-1644 Fax: (208) 667-5568
E-mail: tasnd@aol.com

He is really nice and helped with one visit with her colic and spitting up issues, he also helped me with my Bell's Palsy I had at the end of my pregnancy, but I also have been seeing Linda Hole MD (who is covered by my insurance while Dr. Todd is not - she also does acupuncture) I really like Dr.Todd though for this kind of a problem and love homeopathy.

WHOLISTIC FAMILY MEDICINE Holistic General Practice 2814 S GRAND BLVD SPOKANE WA L CHIU HOLE MD (509) 747-2902

Neither of them is particularly cheap though but its worth it for good health, PM me if you have any more questions.

Destinye/Anna

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