Janulicious June Thread #2 - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 02:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok - someone kick us off here. I'd dead tired...

Mama to B and O , wife to J and me to me! :
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#2 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 03:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, just read Heidi's last post from the previous thread (25 pages was getting a bit large, tho), and now I'm all charged up... bad because it's 2am. Anyway, I wasn't a women's studies major, and am not in the health care profession or the mama/baby profession, so this is a TOTALLY unprofessional opinion, but I am a mama, so it's not exactly out my ar$$ either...

I think it's a MAJOR conflict of interest. I don't know how mamas do it. Putting kids into ANY day care is a compromise, even a really good nurturing one. BUT it's usually not all bad. day care kids, especially ones from part time day care backgrounds are often VERY well adjusted and have a great sense of who they are in the world. This may develop more slowly for a child very attached to family/parent. OTOH, it's possible that too much leaves a baby/child feeling really lonely/abandoned and not having had a childhood supported by family and loved in a way that communicates QUANTITY of time is at LEAST as important as Quality. W/kids it's all about how MANY times they can get mom/dad to LOOK AT ME and see them swing again and again...but that's really important! Also, as they get older and kind of stop talking altogether, the am't of time spent listening can be really super important. So...

Ideally work env'ts would have a day care option available w/in the walls, or an open-ish env't so that kids could come and go more or less. Like they have at Mothering. Yk, I read that article, and it didn't mention too many OTHER places where that kind of child rearing is an option.

Heidi - what about getting some other mamas w/babies into the office and hiring someone to watch the bambinos together? Maybe having 3-4 part timers would pay off in the end? Just one idea...

Ok, now I'm REALLY going to sleep...

Mama to B and O , wife to J and me to me! :
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#3 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 03:59 AM
 
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Wow. Heavy stuff that I want to reply to, but am too tired to/ don't have the right words for. I really know what you all mean, though. I'm not in the birth field or anything, but I'm really torn between being an interesting mama that does lots of cool things for herslef, and being a super devoted mama that puts it all into her kids. I think you can do both -lets face it, you HAVE to do both if you want your kids to come out right. But thats always not so easy to just do.
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#4 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 04:12 AM
 
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the balance is soooo hard to find. with the birth stuff it's esp hard since the hours are so unpredictable. If I could work somewhere, doing what i do, and know i'd be gone from say 9-6 or whatever, then it might be doable. but the unpredictability makes it hard- and when your midwifing, you can't just call in sick when yoa need to.
working mamas can raise great kids and do an awesome job. there's no question about it! day care is NOT evil. kids need love and they can get it from all kinds of places. dh and I were talking about how when I was growing up my dad owned his own business and was gone all the time. But I don't remember him NOT being there . I just remember him being a great dad.

my thoughts are not feeling too coherent. yes, this stuff is heavy. it's hard to be a mama and be your own person. BUT, as a mama who was supposedly "finished", I can say that there will be a time where you are NOT your children's EVERYTHING. I wasn't anyones everything for at least 4 years before Luka was born.

rambling on when it's too late!
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#5 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 04:13 AM
 
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Heidi wrote "KAren, you're just a hairy boob bareing exhibitionist and retro-thinking anti-feminst lactating ludite with no AC!! Haven't you heard its the 2000's!!!! Heidi"

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#6 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 04:32 AM
 
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It took me too long to write- I just moved this over!

oops- I am like chatting away here, tonight...took a break to pee and nurse the baby, I love the little potty chair we got form the EC store!

Anyway, Andy, on my birth and c-sections...I haven't written up my birth story, and am just coming around to being able to deal, cause physically it just knocked me out and thats all I had space for with the new baby and all. So, I have really a really good back up doc for the center and count on getting appropriate low tech care when I have someone transfer. So that was what I expected when my birth got long and dragged out due to a weird baby position. Jessi, Annie, Karen, and it sounds like Lisa all had the classic long hard first timer birth as I did- and they all had vaginal births. Hard first time births happen sometimes, and that is where the skill of the provider, and the art of getting a baby out comes in. I made the decision to transfer when we were in good shape and I had some reserves left so I could get pitocin and maybe vacuum extractor, thinking I needed to go before I was totally pooped so I could have the energy to push. Iris was high in the pelivs and we made the decison to break the bag at home and see what happens in one hour. There was light meconium (normal for being overdue) but she stayed high in the pelvis and seemed to have her head in a funny position, and then contractions stopped.. so when the hour was up we thought it would also be a good thing to have the contious monitoring to check baby that was high as the water was all rushing out, and ther ewer eno contractions any longer so why wait around? (I had Jessi in my mind as I made my choices- thinking i would do what I had to do to give birth to this babe!). But when we called in we were surprised to realize my back up doc was on vacation and we got a total prick of a doc instead. He didn't look at me, evaluate me, or look at my records- he just said homebirth transfer+overdue+light meconium= c-section, no discussion possible. He also implied the baby was no longer doing good, and it would be an emergency c-section. He was a jerk, and actually seemed EVIL to everyone in his tone, and the way he spoke to us. After being in total shock, I mean I have never had one of my clients treated that badly ever, and we were not prepared to be adversarial because the care we usually get is so good, this just took us all by big surprise. After some debate I accepted because the chances that we were headed to a section were good and I felt I had no other choice. But in retrospect, the hard part is we see where we did have choices- we could have refused his care (we didn;t cause I know how the hospital works and there was no one else on the floor to take us- it is not a teaching hospital or anything, it's was him or the ER doc), my regular back up doc called the next day and said why didn't you call me at home I would have in in special for you even though I was off call, and we all were in alot of pain thinking we had taken crap from this asshole, didn't explore out every option, and it cost me a cut on my uterus and Iris her birth. I took lots of comfort in a big dent in Iris's head where she was ramming up against my pelivic bones, a crooked dent that makes me think labor was long because of her bad position, and very likely pitocin really wouldn't have helped anyway. And if Iris wa sin borderline shape as the doc implied, I was totally okay with a section if my baby couldn't handle labor anymore, and it had been a long time and one of the reaosns we were there was to get her on the monitor to get a look at the finer points of how she was doing. But I got my records and the doc lied a number of times in the records to justify the section- baby was actually fine. SO, honestly I will never know if I could have just pushed her out if I had an encouraging doctor, was given some fluids to rehydrate after being in the tub alot and getting overheated, and a whiff of pitocin, maybe a vaccum or epidural. The crummiest part is feeling like the doc was being venegful, refusing to give me care, and then lied to in my medical record to justify his decisons. He never even interacted with me enough to realize I am a midwfe and own the birth center- he found out after the surgery. He didn't apply one iota of brain power to evaluating how to best help me, but once he saw what had happened- he pushed a midwife into an unnecessary c-section it was like he virtually had his lawyer write the medical note to make the c-section look justified when the facts just don't hold up. He actually made up a few things-like that I had an excessive fundal height (but he never looked at or even got my prenatal records, and they didn't measure me and he never got closer tha n5 feet away from me so he had no way of knowing what my fundal height was) so it looked like he was dong it becuae I had a big baby. The next day when i confronted him he got ugly about it trying t omake me feel badly by saying "here you were big as a house and you wanted me to give you pit? That was A) not true B)just abusive and uncalled for! So, good care would hve been to go one more step in the rubric of appropriate level of care before a c-section was actually justified- I needed pit, then maybe an epidural, then maybe vacuum then maybe csection. My cousins were cases of not waiting it out and trying to get their labors to go faster than a natural first time labor does, and for the cousin that gave birth yesterday, the pitocin caused her baby to react badly, so then once they had pitted her she was no longer going to have strong natural contractions, and they weren' going to let her wait around and gain momentum on her own so they just did a section. At home, she would have waited until strong natural labor kicked in and barring any other concerns, would have probably had a nice normal birth. It was the rush to get her started since she was already in the hosiptal that messed her birth up. She just needed a bit and time and space most likely, to warm up to the labor. Who knows what would have happened if her body was able to labor as it would naturally- the natural contractions would probably not have caused the distress that lead to the decision for a section.

So. It sucks. I had to believe early on my c-section was needed so I could move on. As I said I grasped at the fact that there were things and signs that say she maybe wasn't coming no matter what we did, the weird labor pattern, her staying high in my pelvis, the particular way my hips hurt with each contraction, and the big dent in her head that indicates she was crooked and sideways in the pelvis. BUt I expected and would have liked to have tried moe things before surgury. The birth felt very ironic and karmic. This is what happened, I have just had to accept it. i haven't figured out what to do about the doc though. He was way out of line refusing care to me, and then lying later. I made a phine comlaint to the head of OB who I know and work with all the time, but haven't been in the mood to pursue any more.

Heidi
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#7 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 04:44 AM
 
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Oh Heidi I just had no idea you were treated like that at your birth. I had ASSumed that everything was done 1st before deciding on a c/s. What an SOB doc. You just never know what you're gonna get when you just walk in, eh? and lying? ugh. I just never can understand how they can be SOOO unprofessional when a mw does something a teeny bit out of the norm and everyone is all over her. lame. he SHOULD have given you the chance to do other things- like you said, pit, epidural, whatever. even if they didn't help, you would have TRIED them. we have not had any transports in the last 3 years where the docs let us try pit- they all rush to c/s.... except for one- and that woman needed a c/s (44 weeks, late decels at 4 cm).

I know you got healing to do mama. you know you've got support here.

9:44 Luka's still up and now he's upset. I like chatting though.
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#8 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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oh yeah, we're up. Doesn't every hospital have to have a review board? Any patient can write a letter of complaint for them, they HAVE to review it. Doesn't mean they have to DO anything about it, but it's something.

Heidi - Perhaps, now that you are physically more recovered, the karmic push is to KEEP you in the profession, which might otherwise lose an excellent midwife, because the mothercare/childcare debate can be so difficult. Just knowing what another mama might live through w/o the help of women like you may be enough to keep you debating and not decide to withdraw from midwifery (even temporarily).

Hugs to you. My 1st birth was so similar. The only thing that kept me away from the knife was my abject fear. My m/w did NOTHING to help once we were in the hospital. that sucked (and suprised us a lot). The resident on duty was such an a$$hole. He STILL makes me boil. Jerry was just petrified something awful was going to happen to me and/or the baby, he was frozen. It was so awful. It sounds like you got blindsided. I wish that hadn't happened, and thinking back on whatever trite and uncalled for comment I may have made way back after Iris was born, I apologise (tho I can't exactly remember...something about how if any of us could deal w/that kind of birth, you could or something like that...). That kind of birth is outside the realm of normal for anyone. I think it's inappropriate to ask ANY mother to give up her right to birth the way she wants to w/out trying all possible routes first (even if it DOES take longer!). Sometimes things do just happen, and we can try to find the best in them, but they're going to suck no matter how we spin them. What you DID get was one very lucky and beautiful baby! Hugs again!

Ok, he's making just the most precious little coos right now... I gotta be there... and it's plugged up this morning again. drag.

Mama to B and O , wife to J and me to me! :
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#9 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh - I made it! and it says senior member already! Wow...

So how do I get a title?

Mama to B and O , wife to J and me to me! :
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#10 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 09:02 AM
 
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Lots of food for thought and I don't have any time to respond

andy I hope you unplugg. I'm the one the gets pluggy alot and I've noticed that when I think its unplugged it will usually go back and forth a couple of times before its really unplugged.

I have a super grumpy baby over here and I realyl ashould be getting ready to leave (about 15 minutaes ago) I keep offering her the boob and she'll nurse for a couple fo seconds latch off and arch her back and scream this has been going back and for th for about 10minutes now. I gave up and put her down. I tried just hold her and she's writhing around screaming I don't know whats wrong with her. She's dry, obviuosly does't want to eat, plus she just had a giant feed an hour ago. I just looked at her and I think she's tired, but super pissed at something. Well I've got to run. I will try to post more later

mum to Christopher (6/98) Elizabeth (2/05) twins Aaron and Dominic (7/10/06) and new baby Eden (4-18-09)
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#11 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 09:02 AM
 
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whoa so much to read.......

Heidi- had no idea you had such a rough time with your birth.
I think some docs are just too eager to get birth moving, get a c/s done, it's pretty saddening. My cousin had a c/s because she was told baby was too big He was 9 lbs 1 oz. She was quite capable of delivering him as her first was 8 lbs so I don't see how that whole 1 pd difference. I know c/s have their purpose but think the rate is way too high. I keeped begging the docs to let me have Megan naturally. They said they would do everything they could to let me. I was so thankful for that and luckily she cooperated too.
gonna have to read article later!
That anchorwoman rocks man :LOL she said the same thing I was thinking when I listened to that. Made my day.

Andy- congrats on the roll! that sounded so sweet I know my mom had me 4 weeks late, of course that was back in the days before the inducements became prevalent. Oh ya congrats on senior member!
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#12 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 09:13 AM
 
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I was just thinking about the babies that were in the NICU with Megan. Well I can only really go on a few examples really but the moms that gave their babies bm did seem to be "healthier" as in fewer complications due to prematurity. There was one baby born at the same time Megan was at same age and his mom decided on formula. It was astonishing to see the problems he had and all the medications he was on. When we were discharged he was still on at least 10 different kind of meds. There were other babies that were formula feed and seemed like they just had more issues. But I did like the fact that the NICU was very pro bf or just giving bm. Even though I was pumpin I had the lc, nurses, the doc staff, etc... to telling me that bm is best especially for preemies. I remember one mom of twins who was originally going to do formula but changed her mind to pump after being told the benefits and she said she'll most likely continue to pump for awhile.
I don't know why I was thinking all this. Even though I had issues with the staff their at least they were pro bf.
Guess who's 8 mths tomorrow? I think around each month birth date I always seem to reflect on what happened, probably why I was thinking of all this.
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#13 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 10:06 AM
 
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Annie - It bugs me too! No mention of pumping or anything like that. It's really frustrating for me because I work in an office that supports the WIC program and supplemental food programs, and one of our major goals is to encourange low income women to bf. Statements like that make it seem impossible for them to work and bf.

Heidi - Our house is reaching that point too. I hate walking on things. Even if there is stuff piled on counters, if the floors are gritty, it makes the house seem so much dirtier. I love your comments/questions about work. There are times that I feel very conflicted about the work - home issue. I rarely feel guilty that I can't stay at home. What gets me is that I feel guilty becaue I in addition to not financially being able to afford it, I really don't want to do it. I love my kids, as we all do, but I would not be a sane mom if I stayed at home.

Andy - Congrats on the unplugging! I haven't ever had that kind of problem, but I imagine that it feels terrible. Sorry about the bread. Cool that Orin just rolled like that. It is such an exciting moment to have that happen.

Karen - Is Luka teething? I tried that chamomillia on both kids over the weekend during a couple of tantrums, and it works great.

Sheri - Sorry about the grumpy kiddo. Will has done that a couple of times and finally figured out it was because of gas.

SPM - Yeah for Megan's 8 month birthday! I can't believe that. It is so cool.

We are doing well here. Will loved the game and the Diamondback did win. I think for fathers day if I can, I am going to get little shirts from the Detroit tigers for the kids. He is a big big Detroit fan. Do any of you live in Michigan? If so, can we talk? Otherwise, i am going to end up ordering the shirts from the team shop and that is totally $$$ there.

I am writing down stuff to talk about later, so I will be back, but Andy - Congrats on senior member!

gotta go!
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#14 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 10:14 AM
 
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Karen, if Sears says 3-7% (and I'm guessing it's older info, even though it's on his site), then going with 7% puts about 1:14 kids with issues... SO for there to be 2 kids on here like that would be normal, we're a bit above average with Carmen, Lauren and Ori.

Laura, Megan is beeeeaaautiful!

Hehehe Eamon would make a great queen, IF he'd let you wear his clothes Love that!!

ROFL Heidi - it was my crack adddiction that made me do it !!!! :LOL

Congrats Andy!

Joyce, yer babes were full term, right? I think as a culture, we've learned that "normal" for twins is 28-36 weeks, when really, they should stay in the whole time!

Hehe Andy, handmedown from my SIL I'm not too opposed to traditional stuff (Mickey, Pooh, etc) but the spongebob group bugs me. And who wants to wear Barney on their clothes?

Andy, I'm going to find you a cookie recipe that has no wheat. And you can put in your choco chips.

Joyce's Artilce - with the exception of the "no benefits after 4 mos" thing, I can see the author's point. BUT why not rally the feminists to get that national law passed that lets moms pump at work w/o harassment, just like smokers get to smoke! And get WIC to give pumps to mamas, not formula vouchers, and more!

Besides, wasn't the point to show Bab's she was an idiot and should let moms nip? I don't think the nurse-in was trying to force bf as the only choice, but to force society to be tolerant of the bf'ing mamas!

Andy, a doula I know says her homebirth was 5 weeks late, which is amazing to me.

Heidi, perhaps now is the time to reach out to other midwives in your area and coordinate under one business? You can play ringleader and do the "work" ($, hiring, etc) and they can do the majority of deliveries? Perhaps you can extend and coordinate doula services and postpartum care, and more? Like an inclusive birth service, do childbirth class, etc.

Karen, yah, at least the LLL mantra I hear is "when bfing is no longer mutually beneficial" we know babies will benefit for years, but there comes a point when mama isn't getting a benefit, and for most of our culture, that's somewhere between 6 wks - 3 mos. while many of us go on for years... or at least hope to!

Karen, I don' tknow if you intentionally use c-birth over c-section, but to me (just mho) giving it the name "c-birth" makes it more "normal" and accepted... wanna debate the cultural significance of the language used?

Ut oh, I just read all the way to the end of the thread. I'm going to copy and post, and start reading again. You mamas are CHATTY!

Lisa, mama to Lauren, Elliot, angel Marion, and baby due in the fall.
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#15 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 10:25 AM
 
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I don't know how David can wiggle and eat at the same time, but he is. It's funny to watch, but I can't work like this. I keep trying to readjust him on my lap.

Anyway, they were born 36 weeks and 4 days. "Near term," per the docs. Carmen broke the watr with her toe; both were footling breech. Still feel guilty about it. Feel like maybe I should have taken it easy sooner (worked until the Friday before they were born) and she would have stayed in longer. Crazy. i know.
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#16 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 10:55 AM
 
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Andy, did you EVER go to bed?!?!

Annie, the balance thing, I think you have an edge, you started early and your kids are close in age - you'll have time to be cool and interesting when they are more independent (say when Violet is in 5th grade?) and still be young when they are all moving on (sniff sniff)...

Karen, you said But I don't remember him NOT being there . I just remember him being a great dad. which is SO true... it's all about HOW you parent, not the time you are there. My parents BOTH worked 80 hrs/wk when I was 12, and I stayed with grandma, but I didn't lose anything since when they were home they worked hard at working on us as a family.

Heidi, oh mama, wow, what an ass! And you being so logical and going in and having high expectations of care... sadly for you and I both, hindsight is 20/20, I learned a lot from Lauren's birth, yet there is so much that I regret and wish I had done differently. And now I'm thinking about it all, you, me, and everyone else who had a rough time.

For me, the home/work thing.. well my work was such a nurturing job, that being home is almost the same, with less craziness. My kids were so needy and I gave them so much, it was draining. I loved every day of it, but wow I was really exhausted every night too. After the experience we've had with the reflux, food issues, high needs, screaming, not napping, sucky baby, I know that being home was by far the best thing for Lauren. If she had gone into a care setting she would have ended up CIO because she was just SO needy. It made me insane, and she's my kid! Even my mom was overwhelmed with her for short times, and she was SO needing the breast for comfort when the pain was crazy. The reflux didn't really kick in until about 8 weeks, and I totally would have missed out on the signs and blamed it on a cranky kid in the evenings and my baby would have been miserable for months. Gotta stop now, the is getting worse!

Gross house, yah I'm with ya. We've been *trying* 10 min. here, 10 there, to get the kitchen done so we can finally get the cabinets in. But that has left the dog hair piling up all over the floors, I haven't washed the bathroom in a while, dh is barely keeping up with the dishes and I with the laundry, etc.

OK I'm finally back to my first post, time to hit refresh and see how many of you woke up this morning and got to talking while I was typing and reading.

Aaah it's just Joyce up this morning.

Joyce, did you have a c? I can't remember, I just remember you posting "I'm 20 lbs lighter" when they were born.

-L

Lisa, mama to Lauren, Elliot, angel Marion, and baby due in the fall.
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#17 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 11:22 AM
 
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Yup, a c-BIRTH because they were both feet first. The data showed that would just be way too risky of a birth; we could have a tangled mess in there. (Had an awesome OB who let me make decisions after hitting Medline and the medical library. He was prepared to deliver frank breech babes, especially if at least Carmen would turn, but when their feet wouldn't get out of the way, we had to schedule.) The OB gave me a big hug when we scheduled--he knew I wanted to have as natural a birth as possible. At first I was bummed that the babes wouldn't get to pick their own birthday--I felt like it was important that they go through at least some of the labor process--but then they came when we least expected, and surprised us, after all. The doc let me labor as long as I felt was right, and drove in after only getting a couple hours' sleep because he promised us he would be there. I had a doula with me, and she knew all the nurses, and was even with me during the c-section, so the whole atmosphere was really like a big party. The only hard part was the anesthesiologist (though his nurse anesthetist was sooooo great, and a big, buff, guy, exactly the kind of person I needed to lean on when I had that icky spinal!), and, of course, the recovery. Awful, awful, awful. It was hard to nurse, hard to eat, hard to pee, hard to do ANYTHING. We had a really rough start, the babies and I. I can't understand why some women schedule a c because they think it's somehow easier.

Boy, I could talk to you ladies forever. Time to persuade little girl she needs a nap. And work, must work . . .
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#18 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow - feels kinda quiet...

Thanks for the congrats. It feels like a sparkley morning! Now I get another excuse! Senior moments...Amazing how many ways we can excuse fogetfulness!

Az - Orin has had several 'moments' like that. I chauk it up to teething/growing. The sadness usually passes w/ 1) Chamomilla and 2) sleep induced by bfing. Sometimes it takes a couple of hrs., but when he's awake from that combination, he's usually smilie again. As smilie as he ever is!

Joyce - have we read your birth story? Have you written it, I mean. Somehow I kinda think you have told us bits and pieces, but I don't remember reading 'it'.Have you read some of ours? Some are very moving, some are not easy to read at ALL! They make for an excellent distraction

Lisa - I don't know HOW you live...it's just SO hard already! Too much chaos for me, and I'm over the edge. Honestly, trying to put a house back together during all this would just about apoplex me (I think that's a new way of using that word!).

Yk, my dad worked a lot too - on an easy week 50 -60 hrs, and I just remember waiting for him... I do remember times we had together, like early Sunday mornings he'd take us to sunday school and then to get bagles. Some nice mornings we'd go to the duck pond and feed the bagles (some of them, anyway) to the ducks for a while before going home. And they were special times for all us kids. But I really don't remember having those times as a family much (we all just hated my mom too much). Sad. Actually it's still like that. And my Dad, for all we love him, can be a real a$$ too. He's a bigot, and quite closed minded about some stuff. He totally thought the nurse-in a waste of time and immature. He REALLY feels this way! He's a PhD in psychology and he just totally doesn't get it. Total waste of time trying to 'convince' him, even with evidence, proof, stats, whatever. And he was always like that. Doesn't 'believe' in advocacy or proactivity or trying to change things from the 'norm'. He's kind of a butt kisser that way, but I do love him, and he's not a bad daddy. Just a$$ backwards!

Oh well. I'm going to get some water and see if anyone else has jumped on line. Today, I'm bored! That'll be the kiss of death to his nap, for sure! yikes!

Mama to B and O , wife to J and me to me! :
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#19 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 11:43 AM
 
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Joyce, yah, (where's the smacks head icon) if I had read all of what you wrote, I would have realized But for you, you get a c-BIRTH. Best outcome.

I'm on my little c-section huff after I got the new sparkly "pro-woman" health care dvd my hospital put out - it's all a big infomercial to get business, but it's full of little miss got my hair done and I'm wearing my makeup and then she says "I had an ELECTIVE c-section for BOTH of my girls" and the voiceover starts about how the baby will be warm and safe in the isolette, blah blah. ARGH! This is the hospital that did the first water births in the area, has the only independent midwife (other hosps have midwife groups), and some of the best care I've seen on a L&D floor, yet they're making a dvd full of mainstream propaganda when they could REALLY become the premier place in town for natural birth and pro-woman health care. UGH.

Lisa

Lisa, mama to Lauren, Elliot, angel Marion, and baby due in the fall.
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#20 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 11:57 AM
 
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subscribing...will read later

diahrrea ensues, along with vomitting
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#21 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 12:10 PM
 
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But Lisa, they don't make nearly as much money off the natural births!
I do hate it when women say, "My idea of a natural birth is going to the hospital with no makeup." Yeah, a lot of good that does for your baby. Maybe his anal-to-genital distance will be a little longer, just because you did that.

My gosh you people were busy last night and this morning.
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#22 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 12:28 PM
 
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Oh no, Pam, not again!

Laura, megan is BEAUTIFUL! Wow, those eyelashes, and that smile, and the little nose - aren't you in danger of bursting from the sheer cuteness of her?

Heidi, hilarious about the cutie booty crack. One of my favorite pics of Evelyn is her standing up, naked, from behind.

Article: mostly crappy. As we well know, women can breastfeed and work. I'm all for that law that would force employers to accommodate it. I figure, smokers take smoke breaks; I can take pump breaks. Usually I read something work-related while pumping.

Nicole, I'm like you: I think I would go crazy home with the baby. It all works out for us: I make more money than DH, we have the big house so that Nana can live with us comfortably, and I don't feel bad because Evelyn is with her grandmother. People used to say, "Wait until you have a baby. Then you'll want to stay home." but I really don't. I'd love to stay home a few more days per week, or to work shorter hours.

Thanks for correcting the ways/weighs. I totally missed that.

Ann, don't be embarrassed to have a housecleaner see your house! By calling her, you're acknowledging that your house in unacceptable. Therefore, she'll know that you do not live like this by choice.

Heidi, sorry to hear about your cousin. She's a normal woman, treated in a typical fashion - that is, badly!

[quote] I just never can understand how they can be SOOO unprofessional when a mw does something a teeny bit out of the norm and everyone is all over her.[quote]
Amen! Like that medical degree is a mandate from God, or something.

On the 4 1/2 wk-late delivery: good for that OB, for sweating getting the baby out with forceps! Finally, one who works hard for his money.

Joyce, it sounds like you had a great doctor. That's awesome. If more OBs were like that, we wouldn't have to bitch nearly so much on here.

I read somewhere that "cesaerean birth" is a much better term than section, when referring to the baby's arrival and not to the cut itself. ITA. Those mamas don't have it easy, esp the ones who know better.

Heidi, no wonder Martin is soooo attentive to Iris. He's really making up for his dad's absence.
On dads working - not always a bad thing. My dad didn't work much. He was lazy and didn't like it. So, he was usually around the house; we saw him a lot, and he did play with us, but a dad I could have respected would have been a lot better.

Midwives and working and finding a balance. Heidi and Karen, your work is incredibly important to the other women, but at the same time it's a huge sacrifice. I do not envy you your calling or the choices it gives you. If your birth center got big enough, Heidi, then you could leave the deliveries to other midwives and do the administrative stuff during normal hours, with Iris near you. It may take years for the business to develop to that point. It does seem like all signs point to you being meant to continue your work, to one degree or another. I hope that you can find a place for it. With Martin working from home and being such a great dad, the possibility is there. Are there any people there who are almost family?

Evelyn is not crazy about green beans.
Yep, Eric came home last night and the family rejoiced. He was very happy to see us. Evelyn was happy to play with him. Glad to hear Jerry came home early.

Az, are you out there?
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#23 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 01:59 PM
 
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Hey, are there any good Dad T-shirts out there?
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#24 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 02:06 PM
 
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: Andy- senior member. I think there's somewhere you go and request one- look on the main page adn I know there's a link for it. I haven't even thought about one for myself, so mine is "senior member" for now.

Lisa- yeah, I did use c-birth intentionally. I know I read, or it was at a conference or something about how when we call it a section is takes away the fact that it was a BIRTH. Heidi gave BIRTH by ceserean. Just c/s takes the mama out of the equation and that's wrong. It's bad enough that many moms who've had c-births feel like baby was taken from them, but many feel absolutely positive abotu their experiences. they gave birth. I believe language is a powerful tool and I try to do what I can.

Sheri- the way E is acting pretty much sums up Luka's day yesterday. mama. it was draining, but he seems happy now. hang in there!

Laura- there's no doubt in my mind that bm is just plain healthier for babies. I think what you saw in the NICU was reflective of that and my heart aches for the little one who you said was on all different types of meds. I do believe that babies DESERVE bm. and I think that if we completely changed the way we think about things, we could get all babies bf, but the american way is very individualistic on the whole. it's not popular here to be burdened by people/kids/whatever- just jobs : We're so afraid here of taking away mom's choice (at least in this sphere) that there is barely any hard hitting stuff about bf. they majorly softened the breastfeeding ad campaign because formula companies complained and complained. lame.
one country in the netherlands had low bf rates and they pounded the public with info and changed their rates to a high 90's% of bf- and bf that continued..... sorry. rant over.

Nicole- yeah, I think Luka is teething. I have been giving him hylands and they work, but just not for long. But who knows what it was yesterday.... something anyways.

Lisa- I think you can count Luka in with the food sensitivity babies. I took out wheat last fri cuz he had a persistent bumpy face adn today I'm noticing that it's gone. I guess I'm both happy and very I LLLOOOOVEE bread. BUT, I'm gonna go a few more days w/o it and see if I can eat it occasionally (like rotation diet). Esp considering we're going on a big trip soon and it won't be as easy to stay on a diet. I wish the lack of wheat affected my excema though- it's horrible since Luka was born.
And No, I didn't try Andy's recipe yet because I have to get the ingredients (weird flours).

Pam aren't stomach ailments fun??

BTW, HI does have a law for employers to provide space and time for pumping. other states do too.... imo Necessary

jessica- yeah, staying home with baby is not always easy. sometimes I have wished for just a little part-time job- one where I didn't have to pump and could just get away for a bit. I actually did do that when Noam was about 9 mos. but the pay was absolutely crap.
I say woo hoo to the working pumping moms. I have a close friend who is the major wage earner in her house. went back to work at 4 mos with both kids and then worked 4 10 hour days with pumping. she nursed at night to bond more with babies and then ended up pumpong for 2 years with each kid!!! and her kids are just awesome. dad toon care of them most of the time with 1 day a week with a sitter. they are very well-adjusted too it CAN be done!

Luka's ready for some mama attention.
to you all!
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#25 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 02:09 PM
 
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jessica- not obvious here what they are, but granola threads has a dads section
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#26 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 02:33 PM
 
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Yeah, I just ordered from Granola Threads, but their dad designs were few and lame. I got the "I gave birth without drugs" on a Glamourmom for me, and the "Breastmilk: it's what's for dinner and breakfast and lunch and whenever else I want it" for Evelyn in 24 mo size. The one I really wanted to get her is "My mom is weirder than your mom." Another time; shipping was only $2.50.

Ooh, I downloaded some awesome pics from the camera to the computer last night. I can't wait to post them. Kids are magically more photogenic when they can sit up.
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#27 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 03:02 PM
 
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Oh Pam, healthy poo to you guys!

OH $h!t. I just had a HUGE post and somehow I managed to erase the entire thing. BOOBOOOOHOOOOO!

Going back up the page to start typing again. Back to Pam's post and then on!

Jessi, yah it's all about the $$. The head of anesthesiology was the one to do my epidural, his fee was $1700 plus the $ for narcotics. He's also in the dvd, "blah blah, pain management, blah blah, we like to get the mothers as comfortable as soon as we can, blah blah" apparently he yelled at my m/w for not giving an IV to every laboring woman as soon as they arrived. She stood her ground and told him that when she could come into surgery and pick the drugs he got to use, then she'd start letting him make decisions in obstetrics.

Can you take a "smoke" break too? Like, look at me, my pump is smokin'!!

Ok you guys have changed my perspective on c-birth. But I reserve the right to call them sections when people say things like "I had an elective c with both my kids" and "oh yah, it's great, next time I can just schedule the day instead of waiting to go into labor" ugh, just ugh!

Karen, I honestly think there are more allergies out there than the medical folks want to admit. For me, I know something in the first 10 foods is bad on my face, but I'm not really excited about eliminating foods again to find out. Like your eczema, there is probably something triggering it, my face is all a mess too, it was so nice and clear when I was on turkey and turkey and more turkey, but whatever the allergen is, it took a while for it to build in my body. I'm going to wait until I'm back on a mostly full diet before eliminating the first 10 foods again to figure it out. At least I know which 10 foods it is!

State law for pumping is good, but really we need to add it to the pregnancy/maternity/new mom things as a part of FMLA or something similar. National law must happen.

Working/being home thing - I'd like to get a part time crap-pay thing maybe in the fall or winter, just to give me 8 hrs a week alone. Selfish yes, but so necessary. I think working at the expensive kids place for the discount would be nice, or maybe the expensive mom clothes place.
Actually I know I want to be in education. I love going to school, I love teaching, I love education. So I need to pick something - childbirth classes, LC, baby care, something, and get certified in that. And I plan on going back to school when Lauren's youngest sibling is about 3, I'd like to start a phd then. You get 5 years for that, so I could start out part time and then go full time once the little was in school. So many things I want to do!

Jessi, I got the same one for Lauren, and I SO WANTED the weirder one too. It's soooooo fitting for us right now. We're really out of place here in Ohio, it's a backassward state, and we are freaks. I like being just enough of a freak that I make people think, although I look like everyone else, and I just fit in. It's when people get to know me that they see how I'm different... and the new crunchier me is pretty different than who I was 2 years ago.

Ah dh, Lauren and I went out for lunch with the guys at NASA. We went to a local taco dive, yummy and mostly healthy, and they made my meal w/o cheese for me. Lauren did well, fell asleep in the convertable MT, and is napping now. Hoping she stays there for an hour, it would make a nice day for us - just enough time for another nap at dinner, and to bed with the sunset.

Andy didja fix your smiles yet?

UGH we were smack in the middle of the big blackout 2 summers ago, and dh has been watching the power usage this week at the house. He says it's dangerously low (uh, 100 instead of 120?) and that if we start having brownouts that we have to turn off the a/c. Not to be good citizens and avoid the big blackout again, but to save the motor on our furnace. It burned out the week of the blackout last time. $$$$ to fix.

Lisa

Lisa, mama to Lauren, Elliot, angel Marion, and baby due in the fall.
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#28 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey Lisa - ha ha on the 1003 1centers!!! The longies are AWESOME!!! Thanks you SO much for sending them our way!!! Still no smilies, but no time now to get to the board. Sharing the computer w/dh and dd is tough on my chatable minutes! Jessi - you go on and MAKE those mistakes! I was impressed it escaped you Means you're paying more attention to what you're SAYING instead of WHAT you're saying, kwim?I know lots of moms who love to work. Finding the part time balance is optimal, usually, but not always possible or ideal, even. We have two sahd's in our babysitting coop.

Fussing big time - can you hear him??? caio!

Mama to B and O , wife to J and me to me! :
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#29 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 04:28 PM
 
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Morning!

Wow, lots of educated discussion today! I don't even know where to start. I really like the notion of c/birth instead of c/section. It IS a birth. That's one word that's always bugged me. I'm really happy to see others using a different word.

Heidi I had the suspicion you had some feelings about your birth, just cuz of all the body stuff you were having, and in my field of work we sometimes, ok always, see emotional stuff manifest in the body while its waiting to be processed in the mind/heart/soul, yk? I dunno, you could complain to the hospital board. It might be a good thing to do since you are such a birth advocate, and I think it would set an awesome example and really make you feel better in the long run. Although, a lot of us didn't have c/births, we did in some way have a birth trauma. We're so here for you!!! We want to hear your birth story!!!

I should say, about the working thing. I've actually worked part time the whole time I've had kids. Up until I was preggo with Violet, that is. Luckily, massage therapy is super flexible. I can kinda schedule people whenever I want. Even when I worked at super fru fru spa, I would have them schedule a gap between every 2 clients and my mom would bring MAk down so I could nurse him. (We only lived about minutes away) So, I'm really lucky in the sense that I DO have a very child friendly job. Only, I getting a little burnt out. I just have to deal with so much heavy STUFF from people, on an energetic, emotional level, and that's hard to do when you're already zapped from well...kids. Work has actually been hounding me to come back, but I've been seriously avoiding them. : That's me hiding.

Lisa - part time crap job. Coffee house! Its FUN.

Nicole - Yeah! GO Diamondbacks! Did I tell you my dh is seriously baseball obsessed? I mean obsessed. He's already got Kobe pitching, catching and hitting. He even went to college on a b-ball scholarship. His favorite team is the Cardinals

JOyce, there was something I was going to tell you, but I can't for the life of me remember what. 36 weeks is a long time for twins to stay in these days!

Jessi - www.cookiepants.com has lots of dad shirts, I think.

Oh, on the allergies - I know one reason the rate has skyrocketed in the past few years, especially with peanuts, is directly caused by GMOs. People's bodies just can't process it.
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#30 of 425 Old 06-10-2005, 04:30 PM
 
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Oh, forgot to add, I can no longer button the wonderoos around V's thighs, so I'm selling them all. If anybody wants any, let me know.

Andy and Karen, here's how you add your senior title:
http://www.mothering.com/mdc/senior_...mechanges.html
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