Cruel for not using tylenol and orajel - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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DS is teething..and is in a lot of pain. He's been fussing and crying for a few days now, won't sleep, has a mild fever, etc.. all of the teething symptoms.

I nurse him, comfort him and try just about everything I can. (Wet washcloth, etc.) But, I don't want to use tylenol or orajel. I just can't see how it's a good idea to put some topical gel on raw red gums that are sensative/vulnerable to infection. And, I just believe the point of a mild fever is to fight infection...that's why the body creates one, right?

Am I nuts? Am I cruel? DH says I'm cruel for not giving ds these things that would make him feel better.
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#2 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 09:49 AM
 
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I tried using orajel on my dd when she was teething and it totally freaked her out. I was never able to get it just on her gums and would end up with it on her tongue or lips and she would spend the next 10-15 min batting at her mouth because I think it bothered her. That said, I did give her tylenol occasionally, though not until all other methods had been exhausetd. Have you tried a cold wet washcloth? My ped reccommended that. Just wet a clean waschcloth, put it in the fridge for a few minutes, and then give it to the baby to chew on. (Under supervision of course). That worked for us, gave her an outlet for the endless chewing, and the cold soothed her gums.
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#3 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 09:50 AM
 
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I don't do the oragel, either. It kind of freaked me out how it numbed my WHOLE mouth (I tried it before dd). Too weird for me. We use Hyland's Teething Tablets, and they seem to sooth dd's mouth.

As far as the tylonel, I was told by my ped to treat the baby, not the fever. Just because dd has a fever doesn't mean I automatically give her tylonel. There have been times when dd has had a fever but carried on like nothing was wrong. Other times, the fever really seemed to bother her. I'm more likely to give tylonel at night when she and I both need rest, especially if it's been several nights of teething and we're both exhausted.

I don't know if that helps at all...it's just what works for us.

Take care, and I hope your little one feels better soon!

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#4 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 09:52 AM
 
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I usually reserved the tyonel or motrin ( which worked much better for us) for just before naps and bedtime. I found esp with ds3 if he was more rested he managed it better. We also did the wet/frozen wash cloths and he didnt like the numb feeling of orajel ( little guy just kept his tongue sticking out).

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#5 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 10:27 AM
 
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We use Hyland's teething tablets. They worked better when my daughter was cutting six teeth at once, including molars, than Tylenol worked when she was cutting two at a time in the front. I wouldn't call it "cruel" to not give anything, but it's not something that I would do.
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#6 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 10:46 AM
 
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I don't use teething gel either. I have read that is some rare occasions the gel has slipped to the back of the mouth and numbed the babies gag reflex casing her to choke on her own saliva. It's been linked to a few cases of sids. Not worth it in my mind. I've had some success with clove oil. I dilute the oil in olive oil until it just numbs my lip not burns it. About one drop of clove oil in one tbsp of olive oil. It does help the pain but dosn't numb compleatly.

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#7 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 10:51 AM
 
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I probably wouldn't use orajel b/c it feels weird to me, but I would definitely use tylenol before night and naps and Hylands teething tablets otherwise. I do think that if you have the power to reduce or prevent pain for your infant, who can't do this him/herself, and you don't do it, it's for selfish reasons - most moms I've seen making these posts (NOT saying htis about you, just what I've observed) want to be able to say that they wouldn't give their baby xyz (a pacifier, tylenol, whatever it is they have a philisophical problem with) - but if your baby needs it, and you don't give it so you can be in the Cool Kids Club who refuse to do anything that isn't "all natural" or "AP" or whatever, that's ridiculous and selfish. NOT trying to flame you = just being honest in response to your question. I get so mad when I read posts like "my baby is in pain but I don't want to give pain medication" or "my baby wants to suck but I hate pacifiers" -- It's not about what YOU want, it's about what the baby NEEDS. And yes, Tylenol is not "all natural" but it is very safe and harmless. SInce when did a logical, sane use of science become our enemy?

Certainly, try the natural rememdies. But don't deny your baby comfort just so you can wear the "no Tylenol" badge.
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#8 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 10:54 AM
 
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I didn't read all the threads, and maybe someone suggested this already, but do homeopathic teething tabs or gel. Totally safe.
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#9 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 11:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yo Becca
I probably wouldn't use orajel b/c it feels weird to me, but I would definitely use tylenol before night and naps and Hylands teething tablets otherwise. I do think that if you have the power to reduce or prevent pain for your infant, who can't do this him/herself, and you don't do it, it's for selfish reasons - most moms I've seen making these posts (NOT saying htis about you, just what I've observed) want to be able to say that they wouldn't give their baby xyz (a pacifier, tylenol, whatever it is they have a philisophical problem with) - but if your baby needs it, and you don't give it so you can be in the Cool Kids Club who refuse to do anything that isn't "all natural" or "AP" or whatever, that's ridiculous and selfish. NOT trying to flame you = just being honest in response to your question. I get so mad when I read posts like "my baby is in pain but I don't want to give pain medication" or "my baby wants to suck but I hate pacifiers" -- It's not about what YOU want, it's about what the baby NEEDS. And yes, Tylenol is not "all natural" but it is very safe and harmless. SInce when did a logical, sane use of science become our enemy?

Certainly, try the natural rememdies. But don't deny your baby comfort just so you can wear the "no Tylenol" badge.
: Well said.

On another note when my 19 month old started cutting teeth I used orajel and she would scream for hours after using it. I live a month live that and at her 6 month well baby visit I mentioned it to the dr and he said stop giving her the orajel shes have a reaction to it. I immediately stopped giving it to her and I could deal with her better with out the orajel then with it. I am one that HATES giving medicine to their children but when it comes down to them ebing in pain I bring out the tylenol.
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#10 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 11:14 AM
 
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I agree with Yo Becca. I don't think it is necessarily cruel to not give the medication but acetemenophin (tylenol) is definitely safe. It does not have the adverse affect that ibuprofen does on the liver (in very large doses). So far we have used it exactly once. dd has been waking every 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours with teething pain. My wife was getting so strung out and so was I. Finally we decided to try it and dd slept through the whole night, only waking to nurse for hunger (exactly once). So everyone got lots more rest and that can only be good for the body and one's health. We have also used a homeopathic medicine and it worked well, too, though not quite as long. I don't think you should rely on the medicine, or use it just to get rest (unless you are about to snap, which happens sometimes, too - one friend told us how she freaked out and yelled at her daughter - better tylenol than that, in my opinion), but if the pain is bad and you have tried all other options then don't feel bad about using it. Many things we do all the time are not "natural", such as riding in a car, and are far more dangerous than tylenol.
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#11 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 11:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Our2Girlz
: Well said.

On another note when my 19 month old started cutting teeth I used orajel and she would scream for hours after using it. I live a month live that and at her 6 month well baby visit I mentioned it to the dr and he said stop giving her the orajel shes have a reaction to it. I immediately stopped giving it to her and I could deal with her better with out the orajel then with it. I am one that HATES giving medicine to their children but when it comes down to them ebing in pain I bring out the tylenol.
ITA except I use motrin. I ask myself if it were me would I take something for the pain and if i had a tooth ache that was preventing me from going about my buissness i would take something.

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#12 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 11:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by nannymom
I ask myself if it were me would I take something for the pain and if i had a tooth ache that was preventing me from going about my buissness i would take something.
I don't try to bring down fevers but if my son is in obvious pain I give him Tylenol. It works very well. I would have to understand your reasons for not using Tylenol to relieve pain before I could comment as to whether it is cruel or selfish or whatever.
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#13 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 11:26 AM
 
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I posted before about "too much" Tylenol but I do give it to dd when she is teething and in pain. I try teething tablets first (I don't do Oragel either because dd HATES it!) becasue they really do work but if she is in pain Tylenol it is! I was just worried about TOO muCH since it seemed I was giving it to her often...But she is cutting 4 teeth right now and if I were cutting four teeth I would want Tylenol!
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#14 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 11:28 AM
 
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Kim,

No you aren't cruel. I don't think many people stop to think about motrin and tylenol. I wish I had the link about babies and motrin but they are now trying to get people NOT to use motrin.

Since I had gastric bypass done, on my list of NO drugs to take is motrin/ibuprofen. The reason? It causes ulcers in little stomaches (I guess less surface area to absorb the damage it can cause) even in SMALL doses. I was told it isn't necessarily what is IN the drug, it is what the drug causes the body to do to the stomach. I wish I had the details. A gastric bypass nurse explained it to me one time but I have long since forgotten. She told me several gastric bypass patients refused to listen and ended up burning a hole in their new pouch and needed surgery to correct it. So if I compare my new stomach to my baby's, they both pretty small. If gastric bypass people can't take it, I could not give it to my baby even at the recommended dosage for babies. So that is why I avoid motrin.


Whenever I did use tylenol, I didn't find it worked real well and after finding this board, I tossed the tylenol. I did use hyland's teething tablets and that seems to work. I also use oriental medicine I was given called Comfort Shen by her pediatrician that has an OM license. Seems to work as well. Both the hyland's tablets and the comfort shen work better than tylenol ever did.

I also got the baby safe feeder that has a screw on lid as opposed to the flip top. I crush some ice and put it in there and she seems to like that.


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#15 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 11:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tootpapa
I agree with Yo Becca. I don't think it is necessarily cruel to not give the medication but acetemenophin (tylenol) is definitely safe. It does not have the adverse affect that ibuprofen does on the liver (in very large doses).
Hmm...Perhaps I am reading this wrong, but tylenol does have adverse effects on the liver in large doses. Sure, I believe that tylenol is relatively safe when used as recommended. However, tylenol does and can cause liver damage.
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#16 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all of your posts.

Here's the thing, dh insists that orajel works for ds. I don't think it does, when he stops crying it's b/c I distract him. I'm afraid that it will numb his throat and he will choke. I won't let him use it before bedtime for sure.

As far as tylenol, it doesn't seem to work either. We've used it on occasion and I don't seem to notice a difference. So, if it doesn't seem to be working, why put extra medication in ds? Also, I don't think a little fever is a bad thing..I think it's the body's way of fighting off infections.

I've tried Hylands, doesn't seem to work either.

If I had terrible tooth pain, I know I'd take tylenol. I take it for a headach. I guess my issue with not using it is that it doesnt' seem to really work, and I don't like putting that stuff in ds. I know it's safe -- atleast tylenol is when used according to the label, but I just feel 'off' using it on such a little body.

DH says he thinks it work, so I don't know. I think distraction is much more effective.

That's why I posted this. I need a reality check.

I'll try the tylenol and see if it requires a few doses...and then if it still doesn't seem to work, I'll try the clove oil. (I don't have any on hand or I'd try that first.)

Thanks!!
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#17 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 12:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yo Becca
Certainly, try the natural rememdies. But don't deny your baby comfort just so you can wear the "no Tylenol" badge.
Amen, sister.

Look, some of us choose to go through childbirth without pain meds, or we forego pain meds for a headache. (Or, if you're like me, you have a natural homebirth but take meds at the first sign of a headache/migraine.) These are choices we make for ourselves based on our own pain tolerance.

And while I am adamantly against shoving antibiotics down the throat of every kid, or medicating a mild fever, teething pain is another thing. Use what works, and provide the kiddo some relief. Being in constant pain is very energy sapping. Good luck to you.
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#18 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 12:44 PM
 
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Dr. Sears says that treating with a fever reducer doesn't interfere with actually fighting the bacteria or virus that's causing the fever - it just makes the child more comfortable. I wouldn't treat a fever that didn't seem to be causing distress, but I *would* give Tylenol for something that was making my daughter miserable.

My parents (retired pediatrician and pediatric nurse) recommended that I not use Orajel because there's an increased risk of choking - it numbs the whole mouth and can interfere with swallowing. Because my baby has reflux, I'm especially paranoid about choking.

My baby just went through a bad, bad teething week. I started out not intending to give her any medication, and just working with cold teething rings, frozen washcloth, extra cuddles, etc., but eventually I decided that she really needed some pain relief. She was a different baby once she had some Tylenol. I tried to use it sparingly, but I also did feel that it was important to ease her suffering.

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#19 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 12:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tootpapa
t does not have the adverse affect that ibuprofen does on the liver (in very large doses).
I haven't read all the posts, but wanted to correct this information. Tylenol CAN have adverse effects on the liver, but only in very large doses. (This came up when people used the wrong amount of infant tylenol drops when they were new). If you are careful about dosing, this shouldn't be an issue.

Motrin has no adverse effects on the liver--it's cleared through the kidneys.
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#20 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 12:58 PM
 
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I dont like orajel. But mostly because it simply doesnt work. It lasts for maybe 15 minutes. So the only real use is to tide the baby over till the tylenol takes effect. But really it has never been part of our teething reportioire.
But a baby in pain to ME is far more important than any reservations I have about the use of Tylenol or motrin. Yes, I would prefer my child not receive medications if he doesnt need them. But I wouldnt watch him suffer in pain if I could stop it.
I also like homeopathics and had more success with straight chamomilla from borion than with the Hylands. And I use it first. But I will use tylenol for pain (or motrin if tylenol doesnt work) in a heartbeat.
I have in the past felt guilty for not giving in and giving motrin sooner.
"doh! She is crying because she is in PAIN! If I had realised this 20 minutes ago her pain would be over by now."
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eta: if tylenol doesnt work I would go with Motrin. It is better for teethign pain because it is an Nsaid and it reduces inflammation in addition to treating the pain. I feel that tylenol is safer than motrin though so I always try it first.
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#21 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 02:24 PM
 
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I know a woman who uses plaintain tincture on her babes gums. It works so well for them that he actually gets excited about using it! Perhaps you could try that.
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#22 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 02:33 PM
 
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Well, coming from someone who has had many dental issues and teeth pain, I would never ever subject my child to that without helping relieve the pain in some way. I do think letting your child sit around in pain w/o doing something is kind of cruel. If nursing and cuddling isn't working, you should be trying something else.

Now, saying that, I haven't used orajel since I put it in my own mouth when my oldest was a baby. It freaked me out and I couldn't see how it would be a very nice thing to do to a baby. I use tylenol sparingly, and only when I think it's necessary. I used hylands teething tablets and they seem to work well, though they freak my dh out because one of the main ingrediants is caffeine. Someone recently told me about chamemilla. You can buy them at the health food store, they come in a little blue container, they work wonders!
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#23 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 02:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbridi
Am I nuts? Am I cruel? DH says I'm cruel for not giving ds these things that would make him feel better.
I used to think like this too, but, I now give them Tylenol if they are in pain. I figure they are too little for a voice yet, and if I were in pain, I would want pain relief, and I should extend the same consideration to them.

But I used to be VERY anti-med, but I'm not anymore. Everyone has a right to pain relief, is my opinion.
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#24 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 02:52 PM
 
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I would definitely go by the baby. If my child were miserable I would give him/her tylenol. If s/he was a little fussy, I would try other things first (ppl have already mentioned hylands). I am one of those moms who has not given her children any meds, not to be cool but mostly because I think natural responses are there for a reason... a mild fever I would just let go and do its work, and try to provide comfort in other ways (cool cloths, snuggling, nursing, ice, etc)... When my son has a bad cough I go the vapor rub route rather than the cough medicine route... it really works! If he has a cold I just let him have the cold and try to keep things flowing with lots of fluids, saline drops and bulb syringe...
I think my response is mostly out of concern for the meds and their potential side-effects, not being well-tested for children, etc... (I have a strong case of doctor mistrust and question a lot of medical advice) but also not wanting to suppress the natural effects of the illness symptoms (noses run for a reason, fevers happen for a reason, they don't all have to be automatically medicated away) but the disclaimer is (and this is key) that my kids have never been terribly sick... if they were miserable then I would turn to pharmaceuticals.
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#25 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 04:30 PM
 
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I think after reading the postings of the original poster, I didn't get at ALL that she wanted to wear a badge of no tylenol. I think the issue is that some of us have not found tylenol to work and neither has the Original poster. So then the question is why use it?

Someone mentioned that motrin doesn't have an adverse effect of the liver, but it DOES have an adverse effect to a stomach or they would not tell gastric bypass patients with their new small stomachs to NOT take it due to stomach issues it can cause like ulcers. Gastric bypass patients can't even take it in small children's doses.

At one point mainstream thought aspirin was a good choice to treat babies and we learned different later...too bad it was too late for some kids.

Just giving out some things to think about.

Original poster, you may want to do a search in this forum for natural teething and see what you come up with. Some people have used some other homeopathic remedies that seemed to work for their child.


Sherra

PS. Found this article here on motrin (I know there are other articles floating around..just don't have the links handy ):

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weekl...motrin_sjs.htm

Quote:
Keep in mind that there have been previous reports of serious reactions being caused by ibuprofen. In one study that found an association between ibuprofen and acute vanishing bile duct syndrome, a liver disorder, the author concluded that 'because this drug is currently widely prescribed in the pediatric population and has potentially very severe adverse events, even in the absence of overdose, it should remain a second-line treatment for fever and pain' after acetaminophen. But because acetaminophen (Tylenol) doesn't reduce inflammation and may not always control your child's fever or pain, avoiding ibuprofen (Motrin) altogether may not be practical though.
Guess it can affect the liver. I didn't know that.
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#26 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 04:44 PM
 
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FWIW, I tried it all too and none of it seemed to work so I stopped giving it, that just makes sense. That's hard when your dh is saying it is working and you don't think it is ... I always defer to mama instinct in those cases .. well, good luck, he'll get through it soon enough .. teething is so hard, isn't it?

Yeah, and I'd never give Tylenol just for a fever, but I would for pain ... especially in an instance like teething when it's just a temporary situation.
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#27 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 04:57 PM
 
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We never had luck with Tylenol because of the red dye and sucralose or other sweetener that ours had in it. Turns out these two chemicals cause both my kids to be pretty hyperactive. We avoid them like the plague now. It's a shame but most kid's medicine will have a chemical dye and an artificial sweetener (sucralose, aspartame, or saccharin) in it. I would rather try some other natural remedies first than have a kid who is bouncing off the walls or throwing fits when they should be resting from whatever is afflicting them. My oldest (4) throws tantrums and wets herself when she gets either of these chemicals. My youngest (2) won't sleep much at all and acts similar to a kid who has had too much caffeine.

I love the plantain idea a pp had. How exactly does that work?

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#28 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 05:04 PM
 
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has anyone tried gumomille oil? (I just ordered some through a co-op so haven't tried it yet)

I give tylenol as a last resort and use homeopathic chamomille or the hylands teething tabs or calms forte first. oh and there's also another remedy I have by hylands that I can't remember offhand (it's for older babies-maybe calcium phos?).

and really the only times ds has ever really tylenol so far is when he's been teething. I don't deny myself pain relief if absolutley needed so I wouldn't deny my kids either.

my DH grandma swear by vanilla extract rubbed on babies gums. my mom used whiskey on our gums as babies.

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#29 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 06:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yo Becca
I probably wouldn't use orajel b/c it feels weird to me, but I would definitely use tylenol before night and naps and Hylands teething tablets otherwise. I do think that if you have the power to reduce or prevent pain for your infant, who can't do this him/herself, and you don't do it, it's for selfish reasons - most moms I've seen making these posts (NOT saying htis about you, just what I've observed) want to be able to say that they wouldn't give their baby xyz (a pacifier, tylenol, whatever it is they have a philisophical problem with) - but if your baby needs it, and you don't give it so you can be in the Cool Kids Club who refuse to do anything that isn't "all natural" or "AP" or whatever, that's ridiculous and selfish. NOT trying to flame you = just being honest in response to your question. I get so mad when I read posts like "my baby is in pain but I don't want to give pain medication" or "my baby wants to suck but I hate pacifiers" -- It's not about what YOU want, it's about what the baby NEEDS. And yes, Tylenol is not "all natural" but it is very safe and harmless. SInce when did a logical, sane use of science become our enemy?

Certainly, try the natural rememdies. But don't deny your baby comfort just so you can wear the "no Tylenol" badge.
Right on Becca!!

Loving Lucy Amelia
"light makes it better"
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#30 of 38 Old 09-26-2005, 07:15 PM
 
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We use Hylands teething tabs, and occassionally, if it is a really REALLY horrible day, we use a little tylenol, but popsicles also work nicely

Kristin- Wife to J, Mommy to B (11), M-S (8), and little J (4) and J&J (7 months)
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