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#61 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 03:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Aimee21972 View Post
depends on teh situation

the adult in change is not always blameless

the adult is change is not always at fault

all depends on how it happened

what matters more is how the adult in change feels -- even if it is not actually your fault, would you feel it was?

Aimee
It does NOT depend on the situation.

Kidnapping is always wrong. Just like rape is always wrong, theft is always wrong, and murder is always wrong. It is never the fault of the victim, the victim's family, or the victim's neighbors. Unless they were somehow in cahoots with the perpetrator, it's not their fault.

It would make about as much sense to say "if your child gets kidnapped, it's your neighbor's fault." I mean after all, they gave the impression that they were watching the kids, right?
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#62 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 03:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fek&fuzz View Post
You should tell him that it seems like he has a pretty close eye on him so they should be safe.
:
I don't think this is unusual at all. I think you're doing a great job with your kids!
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#63 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 03:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
It does NOT depend on the situation.

Kidnapping is always wrong. Just like rape is always wrong, theft is always wrong, and murder is always wrong. It is never the fault of the victim, the victim's family, or the victim's neighbors. Unless they were somehow in cahoots with the perpetrator, it's not their fault.
I kind of agree with Aimee... If you knowingly put yourself or your child in a situation where you are more likely to be hurt/kidnapped/taken advantage of, etc, then you do need to bear some responsibility for that. It doesn't decrease the culpability of the perpetrator, at all, of course. But if, for example, someone said they left their kid at a park while they popped into the store, and the child was abducted, then I would consider the parent partially at fault, even though it was still wrong for someone to kidnap the child. (Not saying that situation is anything comparable to the OP's!)
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#64 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 04:00 PM
 
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No. This is incorrect. If someone kidnaps a child, it's their fault. NOT the fault of the child's mother.

Ugh.

ugh WHAT? No, it's not the mother's fault if someone decides to take your child. BUT... if the mother and the child were in the same space it is much more unlikely it would take place. I don't see the issue here... if a mother is with her baby the baby isn't going to be kidnapped... if the child is left alone then it becomes more of a possibility. Why risk that?
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#65 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 04:03 PM
 
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I just think it's ridiculous that there's even a discussion about kidnapping when this mom's kids are within her sight RIGHT OUTSIDE A SCREEN DOOR. Your kid isn't likely to get kidnapped, period, unless you have a psycho ex. But they're probably about as likely to get grabbed from the bed or crib upstairs in your suburban home as they are to be grabbed from a porch while your door's open and you're standing right there.

And the "you'd be to blame if your babies got taken" stuff is emotional manipulation, pure and simple. It's a cheap guilt trip against a woman for no other reason than she doesn't live in the same kind of news-induced paranoia as most American moms. It's wrong.
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#66 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 04:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
And the "you'd be to blame if your babies got taken" stuff is emotional manipulation, pure and simple. It's a cheap guilt trip against a woman for no other reason than she doesn't live in the same kind of news-induced paranoia as most American moms. It's wrong.
ITA.
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#67 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 04:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
It does NOT depend on the situation.

Kidnapping is always wrong. Just like rape is always wrong, theft is always wrong, and murder is always wrong. It is never the fault of the victim, the victim's family, or the victim's neighbors. Unless they were somehow in cahoots with the perpetrator, it's not their fault.

It would make about as much sense to say "if your child gets kidnapped, it's your neighbor's fault." I mean after all, they gave the impression that they were watching the kids, right?
Yeah, I have to agree. That line of discussion was starting to remind me very much of the whole "Well, it was her fault for dressing so sexy. What man could resist?" thing. I mean no disrespect, but that's honestly what it made me think of.

Mama to Thing 1 and Thing 2.
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#68 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 04:18 PM
 
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If you leave your child unattended in a playground and they wander off and get hurt or fall in a lake or eat dirt, you are absolutely responsible for that, IMO. If you leave your child on your front step secured in a stroller and someone kidnaps them, you are not to blame. If you leave your child secured in a stroller and then decide to go out and get groceries leaving your child unattended, you are a neglectful parent, yes, but it is not your fault if someone decides to kidnap or injure that child. There is a difference.

Mama to Thing 1 and Thing 2.
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#69 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 04:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Aimee21972 View Post
yep

I have learned to ask myself -- if somethign BAD happens -- even if it is not directly connected to this decision -- am I going to blame myself??? ig YES then I do not do it or another one i like --w hich DH says is mena spirited "if another parent did this, and something bad happened, woudl i think they were stupid for taking the risk" if YES, then it is a riski do not take.

It is like co-sleeping -- SIDS can, though rare, happen ina faimly bed -- if you will feel gilut of the family bed inthat ohhh so rare case -- don't have a family bed.

this is how i view all parenting --

personally if something did happne to the babies out side, I'd never forgive myself, so i'd not leave them.

JMO

AImee
OK, I have to jump in here. You do know that SIDS is less likely in co-sleeping, right? Barring parent intoxication or unsafe setting (like excess fluffy pillows or couches), that is.

To the OP, I don't think you're doing anything wrong. If you're worried about your neighbor or passersby calling CPS, then I would try park the stroller in the back or side yard. But if your front yard is closer to a door, then that's as safe or safer than being in another room in the house.
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#70 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 05:29 PM
 
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I'd absolutely let my children sleep outside. I do not life my life being fearful of the what ifs.
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#71 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 05:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Llyra View Post
I keep them dressed for the weather, and shaded from the sun, and I am never further away than just on the other side of a screen door. But I'm wondering if this is really such a weird thing to do, to leave them to sleep outside (in my own front yard, far back from the road, in a quiet safe neighborhood) because my neighbor is HORRIFIED.
Would you do this? Do you think I'm doing wrong?
Seems okay to me. I'm sure you can see them through the screen door so no issue there.

Is neighbor more upset because they are outside or that you aren't sitting there on top of them?

Fresh air is great for them.

Kim , mom to Amanda (16):, William (13), and Annie (5)
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#72 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 05:41 PM
 
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With three kids, you do what you have to do to get through the day and if this means finding a comfy spot for your babes to nap then be it. If this isn't a comfy spot by mainstream standards, so what? Most of mainstream doesn't have twin babies and another kid.



And regarding the neighbor, you probably do some other things that he would object to, it just so happens that he's seen this one.

I don't think CPS would get involved in this one. I mean not like you strap them in the stroller and leave them to cry in the sun or anything.
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#73 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 05:49 PM
 
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Just put some landmines around the stroller and some barbed wire over the top.
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#74 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 06:14 PM
 
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There's nothing in the world wrong with what you're doing, OP!

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#75 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 06:22 PM
 
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Sounds like a perfectly good idea to me. The only way I could get ds to nap was to get him outside, laying flat in a pushchair and walking, walking until he slept - then out in the garden and he napped happily.
Sorry the neighbour is giving you a hard time. Maybe he doesn't realise that you can see your dc?
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#76 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 07:30 PM
 
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Anything is possible I suppose. I just believe that these fears that we pass on to our children are FAR more likely to cause them harm.
Yeah.
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#77 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 08:16 PM
 
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Yeah, but a wild animal thinking 'yummy' depending on where they live is not unlikely at all.
Huh?? Not unlikely at all? OK, what wild animal is going to hop up on a front porch in suburbia and eat the babies? I mean, really. I'm from Alaska and even bears -- it's SO SO SO unlikely that they ever attack people, and if they do it's out in the woods when they get surprised by someone coming along. I can't think of what other wild animal would eat babies.... I've never even heard of it happening! Besides, the mama says she can see them.

OP, keep doing what you're doing. It's fine, totally fine!

Mama to 3 kids. We live in a yurt!
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#78 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 08:23 PM
 
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I just think it's ridiculous that there's even a discussion about kidnapping when this mom's kids are within her sight RIGHT OUTSIDE A SCREEN DOOR. Your kid isn't likely to get kidnapped, period, unless you have a psycho ex. But they're probably about as likely to get grabbed from the bed or crib upstairs in your suburban home as they are to be grabbed from a porch while your door's open and you're standing right there.

And the "you'd be to blame if your babies got taken" stuff is emotional manipulation, pure and simple. It's a cheap guilt trip against a woman for no other reason than she doesn't live in the same kind of news-induced paranoia as most American moms. It's wrong.
I'm having your name tattooed to my left buttcheek.

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#79 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 08:55 PM
 
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Just put some landmines around the stroller and some barbed wire over the top.

Mama to Thing 1 and Thing 2.
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#80 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 09:09 PM
 
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Just this morning, my baby fell asleep as I drove to my mom's house. I left him in the car, asleep, went in the house, peed, mulled around, then came back out, checked on him, rinse, repeat (well, not the peeing), until he woke up. It just seemed the logical thing to do at the time.

And, I'd do it again. :
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#81 of 166 Old 05-01-2007, 09:35 PM
 
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Huh?? Not unlikely at all? OK, what wild animal is going to hop up on a front porch in suburbia and eat the babies? I mean, really. I'm from Alaska and even bears -- it's SO SO SO unlikely that they ever attack people, and if they do it's out in the woods when they get surprised by someone coming along. I can't think of what other wild animal would eat babies.... I've never even heard of it happening! Besides, the mama says she can see them.

OP, keep doing what you're doing. It's fine, totally fine!
When I read that I immediately pictured a pack of 10 squirrels carrying a baby away.

Maybe a swarm of killer bees?

Yeah, i am with you.

flowersforyou.gif

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#82 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 12:34 AM
 
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my concern is more -- wind blows someing into storller, wind blows stroller over.....cat jumps in storller, animal knocks storller over......

babies get bigger and more active and wake up and tip storller before youcan get to them.....

etc etc

but i think -- if someone saw the patteren of leaving the babies in a stroller out side day after day .... hummmmmmm ... i doubt they'd be trolling by and just grab them, but anyone doing the leg work to find trouble to get into.....

Aimee
I cannot imagine how you function on a day to day basis. Do you feel scared all of the time? It seems like that would be really hard. I am not trying to be snide, I just really think that would be difficult to get by thinking of all the bad stuff that could happen at any given time.

To the OP what you are doing sounds fine to me, I'm glad you found a way for the twins to nap together.
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#83 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 12:37 AM
 
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When I read that I immediately pictured a pack of 10 squirrels carrying a baby away.
I.. cannot.. help.. myself..

[Aussie accent]

A dingo ate my baby!!

[/Aussie accent]

Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do. Because they're FAST.
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#84 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 01:00 AM
 
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I'm not sure how approachable this man is, but have you talked to him about it? Like explaining just how you are to us, that it's the only way to get them to sleep, you're right inside the door b/c DD1 needs to be attended to? Maybe if you see him milling around outside, just open the door and wave.

I think what you're doing is great, but the old man might worry me a little.

Linzie~~wife to Eli 10.1.06, mama to Summer 5.06 and John 7.08
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#85 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 01:20 AM
 
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sounds like a great way for everyone to get their needs met to me

I often think its hard for people to visualize other families needs. If this is working for you I would keep it up. I"m not sure what your neighbors problem is but maybe just ask him, is he upset they are outside? or upset he can't see you and they are outside?

i live in a rural area and if one of my kids falls asleep in the car I'm totally comfortable with the door open sitting inside the door on my front porch reading the mail or talking on the phone, I mean I"m still supervising my sleeping child they just aren't in bed

and my babies all sleep outside in the stroller in the summer, most of the time I park it in the back yard though, but that's cause there is nothing to do in the front
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#86 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 02:11 AM
 
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One thing that has suprised me about parenting is how good my instincts are about what is safe, and what is unsafe. Frequently I feel like I just know what's the right choice for my child. Only you know your neighborhood, your babies, your own reaction speed and hearing, etc . . . So, only you can judge whether this is the right choice. If you tell me it feels right to do this, then I'm going to trust your judgement. Right outside the screen door doesn't sound dangerous to me.

I also feel like often we make the decisions about what to allow our kids to do based on fears of disaster, but we don't take into account less dramatic but more likely risks. We never let our kids cross a street, and then wonder why they don't develop the sense of moving vehicles they need to become safe drivers. We never let our kids try new things and the grow up missing a lot of the wonder of the world. I think that not letting our kids outside as much as we can puts them at risk for all sorts of things from health problems from breathing stale indoor air, to obesity and lack of fitness from a sedentary lifestyle. Letting them sleep outside might be the first step in that.

Congratulations on your twins by the way!
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#87 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 02:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Attila the Honey View Post
When I read that I immediately pictured a pack of 10 squirrels carrying a baby away.

Maybe a swarm of killer bees?

Yeah, i am with you.
: Holy crap, this is the second mention of lethal squirrel attack on MDC...TODAY! The little buggers must be plotting something...
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#88 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 04:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
Honestly, I'd be more afraid of the nosy neighbor calling CPS on me than I would be of kidnapping. For that reason alone, I'd stop leaving the babies out front unless I was outside with them.

Could you put the stroller in the BACK yard while they nap?
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#89 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 04:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BetsyS View Post
Just this morning, my baby fell asleep as I drove to my mom's house. I left him in the car, asleep, went in the house, peed, mulled around, then came back out, checked on him, rinse, repeat (well, not the peeing), until he woke up. It just seemed the logical thing to do at the time.

And, I'd do it again. :

You do that here and CPS takes your kids and you get 1 yr of court ordered parenting classes. There's also lots of posters every where about NEVER EVER leave a child in the car. To many children die that way around here and its a horrible way to die If my kids are asleep I grab a book and stay in the car with them so I know for a fact what the temp is in the car and not what it feels like for 1 second.

Seriously?
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#90 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 04:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
I.. cannot.. help.. myself..

[Aussie accent]

A dingo ate my baby!!

[/Aussie accent]

umm, a dingo DID eat her baby so not really funny imo.

Seriously?
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