am i wrong? baby sleeping outside - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 04:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Llyra View Post
I've decided to think of something really outrageous and over-the-top to do to really freak him out, and then he'll forget all about the babies.
Right on.

And this is off topic, but I never got the dingo reference and I just looked it up and wow. That's a horrible story no matter how she died. Oy, who would have thought that this thread would lead me to learn about the Azaria disappearence.
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#122 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 04:57 PM
 
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It's normal, but I would do it in the backyard with you there or very close. My Dutch friend says they leave their babies in carriages outside the pub while the adults drink inside....even in the cold wet winter! And they are fine...but that is their culture, not ours. Argh.

Jenny, mother of two boys; 7-25-06 and 7-27-08. Loving wife to Cole. I love birth! :
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#123 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 05:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Romana9+2 View Post
I completely agree about fresh air and naps, but I always just bring the stroller inside once the baby is asleep.
I don't think you completely agree with the OP - she feels there are benefits to the babies actually continuing to breath the fresh air during the nap - not just falling asleep while breathing the fresh air.

It sounds lovely to me, I only wish there were some way for it to happen in my current living situation, but we're not set up like that. (apartment life, sigh)
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#124 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 05:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Llyra View Post
Actually, I'm not really sure WHAT he thinks the danger is. DH went over last night to chat and kinda feel things out (because of the CPS thing) and my neighbor told him that I'm a crazy hippie freak who's warping his children. He talked about how I let DD1 dig in the dirt and play with bugs and go outside without shoes, and how he can't understand why she's not in some kind of organized activity so that she doesn't "waste all her time outside getting dirty". He mentioned the other day when DD1 was lifting her dress up outside and had on no panties (we're potty learning). He mentioned how my babies are never bundled up "properly"-- jeez, it's 68 degrees out there and they're in cotton sleepers and cotton swaddling. How bundled does he think they need to be? He thinks I'm going to "suffocate that baby" with my Mei Tai, and he thinks it's a "trashy" that I put cloth diapers out on the railing to sun out the stains. He also mentioned the garden being "a mess" and complained about how I dress and how I really ought to "get my hair done". So I think he just doesn't like us, and that my babies sleeping outside is just another "hippie" thing. He's really strait-laced and religious and generally a crank, I think, but DH says he doesn't think the guy would ever call CPS. I've decided to think of something really outrageous and over-the-top to do to really freak him out, and then he'll forget all about the babies.
That's too bad that your neighbor is such a judgemental person. As long as you don't think he'll call CPS then I would just continue doing what you've been doing. You're the mommy and you know best. Good luck.

Jennifer, mama to darling dancing Juliette, and sweet baby Jameson
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#125 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 05:11 PM
 
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But then again, I let my children play outside by themselves, and I leave them in the car while I put library books in the dropbox, and they only ride in Graco and Cosco carseats, so I obviously don't care whether they live or die, right ?
Thanks for saying this. I have been feeling like this when I read some of the threads lately and it is nice to know I am not the only careless parent who is obviously not concerned for her child's safety.

To the OP, I'm sorry you have to live next door to that guy and I am sorry your partner had to get such an ear full. What a drag. If my daugher wasn't allowed to spend a lot of time in the dirt without her undies on, I think she would not be the extremely happy girl that she is.
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#126 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 05:17 PM
 
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OP, I'm sorry too that your DH had to hear all that from this neighbor! Maybe it would help to anonymously give him this article.

The Hippies Were Right!
Green homes? Organic food? Nature is good? Time to give the ol' tie-dyers some respect
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#127 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 05:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Satori View Post
You do that here and CPS takes your kids and you get 1 yr of court ordered parenting classes. There's also lots of posters every where about NEVER EVER leave a child in the car. To many children die that way around here and its a horrible way to die If my kids are asleep I grab a book and stay in the car with them so I know for a fact what the temp is in the car and not what it feels like for 1 second.

I don't know what my point is in adding the following information. Maybe to point out that there is probably always some possible danger in anything we do. Several times now babies being left to sleep in parked cars with open windows/doors has been mentioned. I have learned from similar discussions on message boards in the past, that there is a small danger of a car *bursting into flames* shortly after the ignition is turned off. Reportedly, this had actually happened while kiddos were in the car. I never tried to verify it.

So seems like there is risk in everything! We've all got to figure out what is *acceptable* risk for ourselves and our families.


Edit to add: OMG, OP, I just read your update about the neighbor. Yikes, sounds like there is no pleasing him. I think he needs a hobby - like maybe one that keeps him down in the basement where he can mind his own business about your family.
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#128 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 05:54 PM
 
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i wouldn't do it...
i am not scared of kidnapping at my own house
cps can kiss my bum they have nothing they could get me on except i need to wash my drapes...kinda dusty...

My DS is one of those "wild" "nature" kids... we spend 90% of everyday outside together!

here is why i don't leave him outside...we have found a dead coyote right outside our backyard, racoons try to attack me at night...deer and all other criters are in our NEIGHBORHOOD 100ish houses...i live in a big city almost smack in the middle of it to be exact

but the kicker is STRAY DOGS...i've had them come up to my ds with me 2 ft away trying to shoo them to death (ftr i love big dogs had them all my life)
i feel that our neighborhood is safe but i have a nosey old lady who walks around everyday, multiple times...:

to the op i know twins are crazy hard....awesome that you can get them to sleep AT THE SAME TIME but you wanted my opinion and i gave it...and tell you "neighbor" to go take a pee up a rope...if you feel safe w/it it's probally ok but maybe stick a baby monitor out there too, incase something happened and you HAD to walk away ykwim? it's just not something i could do if that makes sense?

OT baby? dingos? someone pm me w/a link i've never heard of this...
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#129 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 06:06 PM
 
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OT baby? dingos? someone pm me w/a link i've never heard of this...
moive -- based on a true story -- meryel streep was in it. Late 80's.

in austrial. couple is camping, baby goes missing. they claim dingos stole it out of the tent. they (or she) is suspected. AS posted above no one really KNOWS, but very few believe the dingo took a baby from a tent, though they are wild and would love to get a helpless baby -- prey without fur.

I have it on tape and DH had never heard of it -- and dingos took my baby -- or any varition of "the dingos did it" is a long standing "line" in my family. it is on TV late at night some times.

title: a cry in the night or a cry in the darkness.

Aimee

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#130 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 06:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ergonyer View Post
That has happend, once, maybe twice, ever. In the past century there have only been like 50 attacks by black bears!! And thats including all the trash-acostmed bears, all the bears protecting their cubs, all the bears that kids provoke, everything. Black bears are scavengers (which is why, should you be attacked by a BLACK bear, you should *not* play dead, they'll eat ya ), which means that they eat dead things, and otherwise mostly plants (berries, nuts, etc). Bears are *FAR* more scared of people than people are of them unless they have become accostomed to eating your trash - in which case its the peoples dumb fault for leaving it out and thinking "oh how cute that little bear..."

I'm sorry, but I took a whole class in college on black bear managment - and they just aren't the terrifying animals that many people make them out to be. Nor are they nearly as big as most people think. Theres just too much misinformation on bears out there, but the bottom line is, that unless provoked (you between trash, food, cubs, etc) they won't attack.
I actually know a lot about them too. We have at least two incidents per year here. A cub scout was attacked sleeping in a tent in the fall. He was not provoking, he was not even awake. Not worth the risk, IMO. As we encroach on their territory, they get more aggressive. We routinely see traps for relocation, etc, because they are nuisance bears. That is a major problem here. Yes, this is the fault of the people leaving trash, growing vegetable gardens, putting out pumpkins for Halloween, etc. However, I can't control what neighbors may do to bring them into the area. Believe me there are tons of idiots around here that feed them and think it's cute. When my mom bought her house, she had a huge bear problem. Turns out, the former owners were notorious bear feeders. Now she has a bear problem that is no fault of her own. It's actually against the law to feed them in this state, but it still happens. The true "mountain folk" do it to lure them and then will actually take a shot at them.

I don't care if there was one attack on a child, not worth it, sorry. Not when we live in one of the most highly concentrated areas for them on the east coast. Especially at this time of the year, when they are out with the babies that were born in January. The one on my porch was quite large. The hunters get 600 pounders every season. To me, that is big. I was totally freaked out as he stared in the glass door at me. Not that I think he'd attack, but I wouldn't leave a small child unattended here, ever. I'm sure the parents of the dead baby thought they were safe, too. I heard the bear smelled milk on the baby, and that was how the attack was explained. My little nursling smells like milk 24/7.


Anyway, back to the OP. In her situation, without wildlife and in a safe neigborhood, with mommy near it's probably safe. The neighbor sounds like a nut.
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#131 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 06:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Llyra View Post
Actually, I'm not really sure WHAT he thinks the danger is. DH went over last night to chat and kinda feel things out (because of the CPS thing) and my neighbor told him that I'm a crazy hippie freak who's warping his children. He talked about how I let DD1 dig in the dirt and play with bugs and go outside without shoes, and how he can't understand why she's not in some kind of organized activity so that she doesn't "waste all her time outside getting dirty". He mentioned the other day when DD1 was lifting her dress up outside and had on no panties (we're potty learning). He mentioned how my babies are never bundled up "properly"-- jeez, it's 68 degrees out there and they're in cotton sleepers and cotton swaddling. How bundled does he think they need to be? He thinks I'm going to "suffocate that baby" with my Mei Tai, and he thinks it's a "trashy" that I put cloth diapers out on the railing to sun out the stains. He also mentioned the garden being "a mess" and complained about how I dress and how I really ought to "get my hair done". So I think he just doesn't like us, and that my babies sleeping outside is just another "hippie" thing. He's really strait-laced and religious and generally a crank, I think, but DH says he doesn't think the guy would ever call CPS. I've decided to think of something really outrageous and over-the-top to do to really freak him out, and then he'll forget all about the babies.
How about tandem nursing outside topless? Just kidding, sometimes I'm evil. :
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#132 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ergonyer View Post
That has happend, once, maybe twice, ever. In the past century there have only been like 50 attacks by black bears!! And thats including all the trash-acostmed bears, all the bears protecting their cubs, all the bears that kids provoke, everything. Black bears are scavengers (which is why, should you be attacked by a BLACK bear, you should *not* play dead, they'll eat ya ), which means that they eat dead things, and otherwise mostly plants (berries, nuts, etc). Bears are *FAR* more scared of people than people are of them unless they have become accostomed to eating your trash - in which case its the peoples dumb fault for leaving it out and thinking "oh how cute that little bear..."

I'm sorry, but I took a whole class in college on black bear managment - and they just aren't the terrifying animals that many people make them out to be. Nor are they nearly as big as most people think. Theres just too much misinformation on bears out there, but the bottom line is, that unless provoked (you between trash, food, cubs, etc) they won't attack.

Could you clarify your claim about the number of bear attacks in the past century? Perhaps you mean attacks that occurred outside the context of humans camping or otherwise inhabiting "bear territory"? Bears are a significant problem, and one that will only worsen as people decide to intrude on formerly wild areas that serve as bear habitat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rica_by_decade
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#133 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 06:33 PM
 
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Wow this thread is going...
Remind me of the one about sleeping in the car a little while ago.
OK I may get flamed as well...
I have not read all 7 pages of posts, but I have to say I do similar as OP and I don't think I put my child in danger. I actually often use a baby monitor too when she is out. It's not like I am very far even if I am in... Small house, open doors. Can't worry all the time, need to have a life and enjoy it... I do put her in the back yard, not because I feel it is any safer, but just to make people around me shut up.

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#134 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 06:35 PM
 
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I'd say your pretty safe. I wouldn't leave DD in the front yard, b/c there are inactive train tracks right across the road with people walking on them a lot. Today I was reinstalling our car seats, and some guy came up to me and asked if I needed my yard mowed. The other day someone was talking to me about how Lexingto (the next town over) is a really crazy place. Something about the way he was talking just made me feel uneasy. I would say just trust your instincts. Sorry your neighbor is so judgemental!

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#135 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 06:54 PM
 
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Nothing strange about it--most of northern Europe does this.

It makes me so sad how fearful the U.S. is--we live in one of the safest societies in the world (despite what the media wants us to believe). It sounds like you're doing great!
I used to nap on the balcony,too.

I'd prefer the back though.
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#136 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 07:41 PM
 
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Thanks for saying this. I have been feeling like this when I read some of the threads lately and it is nice to know I am not the only careless parent who is obviously not concerned for her child's safety.
I'm a terrible mum as well. We live on the second floor of an apt. and you need to key in through a main door and then go up the flight to our apt. When I have groceries, if DD is sleeping, I roll down the windows or leave the doors open while I carry the groceries in.

Why, just today, I left her in a grassy patch at the playground while I pushed the girl I nanny on the swings. I was *gasp* fifteen feet away! And, occassionally, I was not watching her EVERY SINGLE second. Had a giant hawk swooped in and carried her off, well, I was screwed.

Luckily, she amused herself by eating the grass, and the hawks obviously hadn't gotten the nosy neighbor alert that there was a baby not being hovered over.

I've read the stats...a child has a greater chance of being struck by lightning or of dying in a plane crash than being abducted by a stranger. Roughly 82 percent of all abductions are perpetrated by FAMILY members, and another 11 percent by friends of the family...so, seven percent by strangers. Sexual abuse is even less..for 0-5 year olds, strangers were the perpetrators in 3.1% of the cases.

In other words, you should be worrying about grandpa, aunt Mary, or your neighbor hurting your child FAR more than a random stranger.

Interesting article here...
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...abduction.html
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#137 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 11:32 PM
 
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Wow this is a long thread, I only read the first page I admit.

I would leave my baby napping in the back yard, inside of a fence, if I could see her. Although my main concern would be bug bites. I've been reading lots of Charlotte Mason these days (19th century educator that was all about fresh air for kids) and so it sounds great, maybe if you could get a bug net for your stroller or something.

But safety is definitely first, so inside of fenced back yard would be a lot better than out front.....

Homeschooling SAHM to 3 children under 5 + one on the way.
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#138 of 166 Old 05-02-2007, 11:35 PM
 
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Mamas, I think you maybe misunderstood. When I say on the other side of a screen door, I mean literally that. My babies are not out of my sight at all; they are on one side of the door and I am on the other, right where I can see them. I sit there so that I can keep an eye on both my babies and DD1 at the same time; DD1 often won't go outside. She's 2 and busy with her own games and play and often I can't persuade her to go outside, and if I force the issue she throws a tantrum and then wakes both babies up and then where am I?

Frankly, I worry more about DD1 being left alone. She's mobile and active and curious and much much more likely to run into trouble than two newborns securely strapped into carseats and in a sturdy, braked stroller.

See, now I'm getting all defensive. I mean geez I asked for your opinions and you gave them nicely and I shouldn't be all defensive. It's just I'm so thrilled to find some way to get the babies a nap without at least one and usually all of my kids crying, and now I guess I have to give it up. You're right about CPS; that's exactly the sort of thing my neighbor would do....



But it's not like I'm upstairs folding laundry while they're outside sleeping. I'm casual with my kids, but not stupid.
Like I said, I've been reading Charlotte Mason, I think you should find a way to get your daughter outside and pronto! Get her outside first and then put babies to sleep

Homeschooling SAHM to 3 children under 5 + one on the way.
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#139 of 166 Old 05-03-2007, 12:55 AM
 
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I think your neighbor and my Grandma should get together. Then they could judge everyone and b**** at each other all day, and leave the rest of us alone.

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#140 of 166 Old 05-03-2007, 02:04 AM
 
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To me it really depends on where you live and only you know what it's like. At my mom's house 5 miles out in the country down a long driveway with no neighbors within a mile I would totally do it.

Like I said, just depends.

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#141 of 166 Old 05-03-2007, 06:51 AM
 
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I would only do this in a rural area (read: in my family's neighborhood down south in SC and GA). If you feel comfortable enough to do this, than do what works for you and bump the neighbor.

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#142 of 166 Old 05-03-2007, 09:19 AM
 
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Just wanted to add that my mom warned me of this just the other day. She said that when I was a baby a little baby was abducted and never found this very same way. The mom was very routine so they think someone was staking her. After she went inside and turned her back to the babe for just a split second the babe was snatched!

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#143 of 166 Old 05-03-2007, 09:30 AM
 
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LLyra--I have not read the million of replies-I may go back--but you are asking for peoples two cents. Here is mine.

I think you are under a lot of stress with twins (how do you do it? God bless)...lots of work....and, if you can get a break by having the twin sleep in a stroller--go for it. I am assuming you live in a "safe" area (not down town DC).......and that you are pretty much right there.........keeping a safe eye on them while they nap nicely in the stroller. I think the odds of someone walking up and stealing your kid are slim...but...we all need to be very careful of this to be safe. I tend to be OVER paranoid and feel worried when I run in to get a quick (and i mean a quick) glass of water or a tissue (I mean quick!!)---I am afraid someone may snatch my 6 month old out of the stroller....i live in a super safe place...but you never know...point is...we all need to be safe and smart. I trust you are making a good choice and being responsible. Not turning your back for long etc. I know you would never want anything to happen......

I LOVE PP's reply to say to your neighbor "you seem to be keeping a good eye on them--I am sure they will be safe".

I would need to be right there. I watch too many TV showes.....America's Most Wanted..etc. But do agree it is rare.....but still, if it is your kid that is snatched.

And--Sounds like a good way to get them to sleep at the same time......just keep a close eye on them........ Keep up the good work!
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#144 of 166 Old 05-03-2007, 09:36 AM
 
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BTW-I just read your thread that said you were literally on the other side of the door---I think we all are making a bigger deal of this. And I think CPS would need way more of a reason (I am a teacher-trust me it takes a lot of "abuse").

GO ENJOY YOUR DAY!!
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#145 of 166 Old 05-03-2007, 11:18 PM
 
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Llyra - My MIL does this when watching my DD and my neices and nephews. She walks them in the double jogger, and anyone who falls asleep is left at the bottom of the stairs until the wake up. She only does it when the weather is appropriate and she comes in and out and watches from the kitchen window. She lives on a few acres though.

I think this is fine. My biggest fear would be CPS (i've had them called on me - it doesn't matter how ludicrous the accusation, they have to investigate them all, and it's terribly insulting and sad when it's uncalled-for). But it sounds like your neighbor is just an all-around jerk. Good thing he isn't my neighbor - imagine *gasp* up to 4 naked kids in the kiddie pool all at once! Boys and girls together! How shameful!!!

Much more of a threat than bear attacks in the trenton area (gimme a break) are sunburn and mosquito bites - and I'm sure you are monitoring that.

I've left my DD in the car sleeping (windows open) for 3 minutes while I run into my rural post office to buy stamps, etc. I know she won't overheat or be kidnapped - my biggest fear is paranoid strangers calling CPS.

Keep it up - sounds like a great system!

Also - the Dingo quote - anybody else think of Elaine from Seinfeld? Never knew it was based on anything real...
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#146 of 166 Old 05-03-2007, 11:22 PM
 
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But then again, I let my children play outside by themselves, and I leave them in the car while I put library books in the dropbox, and they only ride in Graco and Cosco carseats, so I obviously don't care whether they live or die, right ?
Yep - if you haven't spent at least $200 on your carseats, you don't love your children enough. And if they ever get sand in their hair, they are clearly neglected. Glad you got that memo!
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#147 of 166 Old 05-03-2007, 11:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cinnamonstick View Post
... I am assuming you live in a "safe" area (not down town DC) ...
I work in downtown D.C. (Do you really mean downtown Washington?!?) The idea of it being shorthand for a "dangerous" place cracks me up. I mean, no one really lives downtown, but I'm trying to imagine what would happen if a baby were left outside there. A K Street lawyer might trip over the stroller and spill his latte?
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#148 of 166 Old 05-03-2007, 11:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mothragirl View Post
if you feel it is safe than it probably is. i wish i could sleep outside!

:

A doula who married a cop & became a mama to 3 boys: G 12/22/00, my rainbow baby B 2/2/07 and L 2/10/10 my CBA2V baby, waiting for my little caboose late February 2013 & always remembering my two angels 2006 & 2012.

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#149 of 166 Old 05-04-2007, 04:58 PM
 
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I know my mom says people have done this since forever because it works.

I wouldn't do it because I am way too paranoid ever since I saw the movie Adam . . .but then again, I put my DD to sleep on her tummy. We all have our comfort levels.

I say do what feels right. But I agree with the pp who said your neighbor might call CPS!

 2/02, 4/05, 2/07, 11/09, and EDD 12/25/11 wave.gif

 

 

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#150 of 166 Old 05-05-2007, 04:30 AM
 
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Wow - lots of different opinions here. My 2 cents is that it is okay as long as you really are right on the other side of the screen door & you live far off the main road so that it is not a high traffic area. I believe this used to be done all the time in past generations it is a shame that now we live in such a fear based culture (sometimes fear based for good reason - but nonetheless...)

You go with YOUR instinct!
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