Why does he get an opinion? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 9 Old 10-27-2005, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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After reading a bunch of links that Helen passed on (thanks!), I am trying to allow myself to become comfortable with the idea of breech homebirth. And it does makes sense to read links from the UK as opposed to the US, where they still do deliver breech vaginally (hosp and home)far more regularly then we do here.

I really like this quote by MW Mary Cronk

One needs to distinguish between breech births - that is, babies born by the expulsive efforts of the mother, which in my opinion are safe, and breech deliveries - that is, babies born by traction by midwives and medical practitioners, which in my opinion are pretty dodgy.

We have reasonably good, safe caesarean section in the year 2000. We should use it for the breech births that do not progress spontaneously. If the labour progresses spontaneously, ie the contractions come oftener, last longer, get stronger, the cervix effaces and dilates, and the breech descends through the pelvis, the baby will be born. If this does not happen there is no place for augmentation - trying to push the baby through the pelvis with contractions driven by oxytocic drugs. Nor is there any place for trying to pull breeches through the pelvis with managed breech extractions. Labours that don't progress are telling us that the baby should be born by CS.

In my experience, if a breech presenting baby is too big for that particular woman's pelvis, the presenting part does not descend and the labour does not progress. It is when we try to be clever and stimulate/augment the labour or try to do breech extractions that we get into trouble. Furthermore a big well grown baby has a big bum. The bi-trochanteric diameter is very similar to the bi-parietal diameter..
And where else would you get the opportunity to allow it to proceed unassisted than at home?

But DH isnt buying it. He keeps saying "what if something happens?" I try to tell him that surgery is not an option for me unless it *has* to be. And that there can be complications that cause a baby to die no matter what - head down, Csec, on the monitors at a hospital...there are no guarantees. But he says it doesnt matter, if we have a HB and something happens, everyone we know will blame it on the HB and us as irresponsible. And then he tunes me out, saying "lets just focus on getting the baby to turn."

Great, thanks! So my gut is finally beginning to tell me that if this baby stays breech, I should stay home. And if things dont progress well, then by all means...I will have the surgery! But why not try? And my MW is not willing to try if my DH is not willing.

I just hope this babe stays in long enough to allow us to work this all out! I seem to be having more BH and more cramps and aches that may or may not be ctx these past fews days. But it could also be all the stuff we are doing to get the babe to turn.

Jenn, perpetually tired mom to DS(9): DD(4.5): DD(2) :
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#2 of 9 Old 10-27-2005, 09:33 AM
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Jenn, it is hard sometimes with the DHs. For whatever reason, I think they are much more prone to worry about things that are beyond their control - things that we may not be as freaked out about. I have gone toe-to-toe with DH about several things that I thought were pretty stupid, but that for him were (for whatever reason) *really* important. I guess I just had to realize that it might be harder for men to have faith that everything is going to be OK, maybe because THEY are not carrying the baby so they don't have that intuitive connection to the baby, the process, and everything related. Really, they are just bystanders...and sometimes I think about how maddening that would be for me (a control freak) to be in that situation during the most important phase of our lives, so I try to understand that he is just doing what he thinks is best in terms of getting the desired outcome: a healthy, alive baby.

I'm not sure if you have told him about it in this way, but you may want to say that you want to at least *try* - and that the only chance you have for success is if you stay at home. Could you compromise and choose a time period, like X-number of hours at home or something? Maybe you could try to help him understand *why* a vaginal birth is so important to you.

Given that your MW said she won't do it without his cooperation, I might feel a little ganged-up on, especially since when it comes right down to it, YOU are the one carrying this baby and giving birth. Sometimes I'm tempted to pull rank, so to speak, because I am the mama....but I guess ultimately that only leads to someone feeling resentful, and that definitely isn't helpful.

I'm really just rambling here so I don't know if I've said anything helpful, but I hope that you can work this out so that you have the experience that you want to have. :

Ever-evolving mama to my beautiful Brynn, and my little dimple-face Noah .
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#3 of 9 Old 10-27-2005, 10:20 AM
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yeah, since when does he get an opinion??? I agree w/ everything Amy said. I'd just keep talking to him about it. Really lay it onl thinck about the mother's intuition part. If you feel it's okay then seriously he needs to reconsider his position. I understand the MW's position though because if one parent was against it from the get go and she went ahead and assisted anyway and *GOD FOBID* anything went badly, she'd get in a heap of a lot more trouble than if both parents agreed.

You still have time. You know your dh better than he probably knows himself. I know that you'll be able to talk to him in a way that will help him change his mind... sometimes men need to be led in a way that they think they are making the decision but they're really not if you KWIM???? It's your body first and foremost and opting for surgery as a first without even trying is unfair to you.. and think of all the drugs that will get in the baby's system too. That's what you are trying to avoid by going the HB route in the first place. Babies spontaneously turn in labor too, you know (of course you know).

Just my thoughts....
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#4 of 9 Old 10-27-2005, 11:57 AM
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The quote makes perfect sense to me -- I can't offer any techincal advice having not been through birth. Of all that you said this is what rubs me the wrong way:

But he says it doesnt matter, if we have a HB and something happens, everyone we know will blame it on the HB and us as irresponsible.

The LAST thing that matters is what other people think! That is so far behind you and the babe's well-being. I would think that he probably understands that and of course cares more about you two than others opinions, but (and perhaps this is psychoanlalyzing way too much here) perhaps he was just using that as a tactic to change your mind, thinking that it might affect you if people thought you were to blame if something went wrong. I don't know but it is disturbing to me to think about it in those terms. Sorry if I am being too harsh on poor DH who is probably somewhat distraught and searching for the right solution, too.
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#5 of 9 Old 10-27-2005, 12:27 PM
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He might be saying one thing and feeling another. Is he actually worried that something bad will happen to you (i.e. worst case scenario)? I know that was an obstacle for us with getting to an agreement on homebirth. He would be devastated for the rest of his life if something were to happen to me (har, don't think much of myself, do I?). Talking about my feelings about hospital birth and my fear of that was helpful.

Maybe talking more about each others underlying emotions might shed more light and help y'all come to an agreement or compromise. Can you build some failsafes into the birth (in mine, it's rising BP or proteinuria during the birth means transfer, which is fine with both of us) that helps him to feel safer?
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#6 of 9 Old 10-27-2005, 01:18 PM
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Check out the October board... (Juliacat) just had a breech baby... butt first. It was in the hospital, but breech births can happen just fine. Good luck! Remember, it is your body, you have the final say.
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#7 of 9 Old 10-27-2005, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I actually read her story this morning and it was very inspiring. I will share it with Dh later.

My MW wants to sit down with DH and I and discuss it indepth. I think it will help me to have them both together (unless they gang up on me )

DH has always had a tendancy to worry about what other people think and its a quality that makes me crazy. I guess he has helped me become more tactful in my old age, but I tend to say what I mean and what I feel. I dont play games or dodge subjects as a rule. But I do think ultimately, his concern is the baby dying, not me. Getting stuck, etc etc. You know, all the dangers that modern obstetrics and our legal system have drilled into us for the last 20 yrs!

Thanks for your input. I really just needed to vent and its nice that this is such a safe place to do so.

Jenn, perpetually tired mom to DS(9): DD(4.5): DD(2) :
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#8 of 9 Old 10-27-2005, 02:03 PM
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Also, Ben probably makes it harder for him- having already got one kid who needs extra care, he's probably terrified on some level of another.
We talked to Mary Cronk a few times before she retired, and were seriously considering booking her (she had a stroke the same day baby turned.) She is an amazing force for change, and one of those people who is so passionate about what they do, they drag you along with it.
Good luck, and I hope your dh comes around. I think it's a big mental shift for a man to equate c-section with very bad thing: that was the bit that Steve found hardest. If you can get him to the point where he realises that vaginal and surgical births aren't options like wool or cotton, you might be nearly there.

Helen mum to five and mistress of mess and mayhem, making merry and mischief til the sun goes down.
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#9 of 9 Old 10-27-2005, 06:37 PM
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jenn I know my dh would be the same way. Maybe it's because we have one child who is special needs, maybe it's because their mindsets all point toward the hospital, I dunno. It's hard because in our hearts we know they just want what is best for us and the baby. I'm so sorry and hope the baby turns so that it will no longer be an issue!!!
I think talking with the midwife sounds like a fantastic idea!!!
****still sending turn baby turn vibes to you *****************
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