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Old 06-26-2010, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:53 AM
 
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$4000 a month defecit? First, I know that there is no way I could make $4000/month. Secondly, our family budget (which admittedly is really bare-bones) is less than half of that. I see that you live in the bay area, and I know it's really expensive there, but we live in a high COL area, too. The easiest thing for you to do is probably to cut expenses -- sell a car, move to less expensive housing, etc.

I don't know how to make your husband more concientious about money, but that will be an important step in the process. Does he expect to be making more money soon? Are those expectations realistic? Has he shared his business plan with you?

Finally, if you can pick up work that pays enough to make up the difference, daycare is not the end of the world. It's stressful to be dependent on someone who, from the sound of it, isn't as reliable as you need him to be.

Good luck with it.
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:13 AM
 
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i would go to any extent. in your situation, i would get through the next few years, on birth control. then if he still was willfully refusing to support his family, i would be gone. maybe not a divorce, not right away, but we would not be living together with him having all the benefits of having a wife (sex, but cooking/cleaning/money managing also)

however, i do wonder if maybe you are just having some difficulty adjusting to a lower income. you said he is making half of what he used to and there is a $4k/mo defecit? $8k a month, really? wow! thats just never been my reality, but i am quite sure you can make some adjustments to get by on $4k/mo. i get by on $1,500/mo with two kids.

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Old 06-26-2010, 10:15 AM
 
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I would think the first thing i'd do is cut as much expense as possible. If you are going 4K in deficit every month you are going to be bankrupt pretty soon!! That is just crazy!

Cut the cable/internet/etc. etc.
Buy less food
Cook from scratch,
Don't go out to eat
Don't buy anything that isn't necessary
Sell a car
etc.


OH and go post this in the frugality section. At first I thought the title of your post was kind of mean. Like you just expect more money from your DH but it certainly sounds like there are some strange underlying issues involved. Like the fact that he slept through your labor and was no where around when your DD was born? I would have been pretty hesitant to get pregnant again with this man!!!

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Old 06-26-2010, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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well cutting costs is hard to do alone. This didnt happen over night. he was making 3 times what he makes now, we never looked at a price tag just bought whatever we wanted and had extra, before dd and me not working, we had 2 incomes and mine was much larger than his, so we have well I have cut out a lot.

But now its bare bones on my end, but i cant control when he goes and buys things with a credit cards or whatever. I can say we need to move, but i cant really move us or sign leases without him.

I know the reality financially, im not as worried about it. Like I said there are other things going on and thats part of it he feels like he doesnt need to work as hard cause I will provide the money eventually and we can get bye like this for the next year or so and then i or my family will pay off the debt and ill start working, but im not o with that and i have told him so very clearly so the problem is that he is not making enough, not as motivated as he used to be and ontop of that not willing to look at the budget or cut costs.

I guess my main question, that I should be asking him, is why are you not working more? I could say look im only willing to work 6 hours a day so i am hiring a maid... right? I expect him in this situation to get more work, get different work, etc. he is ok with what he makes and says he cant work more and is not willing to work like he did before.
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Old 06-26-2010, 01:57 PM
 
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I think shaming or whoming should be a family decision-- not a unilateral decision. Both require sacrifices. Hopefully you all can come to a compromise.

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Old 06-26-2010, 02:00 PM
 
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Honestly, it sounds like you both need to get into counselling ASAP. I don't know how a marriage can work with two people on such different pages financially. It sounds like you're both out to suit your own needs without communicating with each other or working together for the future of your family.

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Old 06-26-2010, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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dh doesnt want me to work either, it was actually his pressure to stay home, i was in grad school and had a private practice i loved, he said o you quit school and tay home right? i said what planet or era are you from? Why would i give up everything to be home? thats ridiculous im a modern woman blah blah then baby came out, i looked in her eyes, and couldnt imagine ever leaving ehr side haha i also said i wouldnt nurse because there's formula now and its jsut gross! i nursed for 2 years plus! exclusively for 1 of them, meaning no solids, s he never got formula or anything... anyway i think though at this point now that dd is 3 dh wants me to work, and that was the plan, for me to work part time in the evening and weekends but then i got pg! now i dont feel ethical taking cases when i will be having a baby in a few months and passing the cases onto someone else
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Old 06-26-2010, 02:10 PM
 
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well....if it were me I'd take ALL the credit cards and cut them up. Then put a pie chart in his face along with cash. This is how much we can affords for you to spend a week, IF you continue to make X (X being average of how much he's making lately. Make a separate checking account for bills so he does take from that. He needs to see the numbers.

Its not about working more it about spending what you can afford then working harder for what you want to afford.

OR have a financial adviser do this same thing for you.

on you marriage end, seek consulting or pastor or someone. it sounds like hes self destructive, which may not mean he doesn't love you, he just does like him.(but I could be totally wrong)

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Old 06-26-2010, 04:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by donutmolly View Post
Honestly, it sounds like you both need to get into counselling ASAP. I don't know how a marriage can work with two people on such different pages financially. It sounds like you're both out to suit your own needs without communicating with each other or working together for the future of your family.
Yeah if my dh and I were in this situation, I'd want us in counselling, and for that matter financial counselling.

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Old 06-26-2010, 04:36 PM
 
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I agree with getting rid of the credit cards - I can't imagine being that much in the negative every month (or negative at all - DH doesn't earn a ton of money, but we haven't touched credit cards in over 7 years).

I can honestly say I'd prefer my DH home more often than having plenty of money and him working 16 hours a day. But it sounds like unless you guys can make drastic cuts - likely including selling your home and vehicles, and your DH's excess spending - I don't know how you will survive. What happens when you max out your credit or it gets cut off? It happens nowadays, even to those who pay more than the minimum every month on time.

I also agree with counseling - financial and marriage.

I hope you are able to stay at home when the new baby comes, but I hope your family can stay intact - or you happily split - and that your money problems go away.

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Old 06-26-2010, 04:47 PM
 
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He puts his receipts in a certain spot for me to budget, thats basically his responsibility. i have made it clear to him he is not making enough money. Giving him copies of the our budget showing about a 4000$ a month deficit, etc etc.
You guys spend $8,000 a month?

the problem isn't just income, it's out go.

Building a new business takes time, and often there is a lag before it really kicks in. You guys need to start working as a team.

May be counseling would help.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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Old 06-26-2010, 05:04 PM
 
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I guess I can see his point of view, too--he is tired of working 100 hour weeks, tired of only seeing his family on the weekends, etc, etc.

BUT...if you want to change your life, then you have to change some of the fun (spending money) parts of it, too.

so, in my house, we'd have a come to Jesus meeting, and I'd see how bad he really wanted to change his lifestyle (by seeing what the commitment was to change his spending as well). And/or I might ask him to do the bills for a while.

Whatever you do, you can't just continue the way you are or you'll be bankrupt and marriage-less before you know it.
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:11 PM
 
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There is no "to what extent" for me. If my family was $4K in the hole each and every month (almost $50K short a YEAR), there would be no way on this earth I would be staying at home. $4K a month TAKE HOME (post tax) would require another full time salary of around $70K a year because taxes will take out a lot of it before it ever hits your bank account. That is not possible with most part time jobs.

It seems to me that he can't win...if he works a lot, he can never see his kids. If he works a normal amount he's being told he's not working enough and the bank account is short. And so that leaves spending less... Part of having the privelage of staying home is making sacrifices...living in an area with a lower cost of living, having a smaller house, and in general spending less. A child's relationship with BOTH parents is important, and so if I wanted to stay at home but we were $4K short a month (which is my DH's take home pay, and we live in a great house, eat an all organic diet, have memberships to various places, and have 3 kids, including 2 with special needs that require weekly therapies, so I can't fathom being bare bones and still needing that much money to break even...), the family would come to a mutual agreement on what to do. For me, it would involve moving to a less expensive area, giving up luxuries, selling things we didn't need, and if that still didn't make ends meet, I personally would be looking for a job where I could work from home or work evenings after my DH came home...

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Old 06-26-2010, 05:28 PM
 
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$4K a month TAKE HOME (post tax) would require another full time salary of around $70K a year because taxes will take out a lot of it before it ever hits your bank account.
you know, when you put it that way, their spending is about $8,000 a month, or $96K at year, which would require a salary of around $130,000 (depending on taxes) per year.

So if you rephrase the original question to "would you still stay home if your DH made less than $130,000?" nearly every stay at home mom will answer "yes" because most families with a stay at home parent live on less than that.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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Old 06-26-2010, 05:34 PM
 
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I've read over some of your history and I don't think this is a problem that can be solved by going back to work and not making other changes. Do the math and see if childcare for 2 children, travel for work, etc. would leave you with any income. If it would you can make the choice and I would separate finances from your dh, I would even consider divorcing him on paper, in order to safeguard you and your children's future. Just because he is determined to crash and burn, financially, does not mean you have to go with him. If you get your inheritance and don't legally separate your finances he is going to burn through it and leave you and your children with nothing.
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:36 PM
 
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So if you rephrase the original question to "would you still stay home if your DH made less than $130,000?" nearly every stay at home mom will answer "yes" because most families with a stay at home parent live on less than that.
I think that was very well put. My answer would be yes too. We've lived on 14K, we've lived on 35K Right now we're at about 20K/year, and in a situation where I can still stay home.

To me, this issue looks like another symptom of much larger relational problems. And honestly, I can see both sides. If you want to be home with your baby, yukookoo, and your deficit is so much every month, then start by making changes that you can change. Cut the lifestyle in whatever way you can. I would go as far as getting rid of credit accounts. IMO, there is nothing wrong with your husband having his own business, or even making less money. But you do have the right to insist that his lifestyle fit within the budget constraints he's created.

I suggest counseling. And particularly with someone who can help you two learn to work together on finances as well as the rest of life.
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Old 06-26-2010, 08:41 PM
 
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you know, when you put it that way, their spending is about $8,000 a month, or $96K at year, which would require a salary of around $130,000 (depending on taxes) per year.

So if you rephrase the original question to "would you still stay home if your DH made less than $130,000?" nearly every stay at home mom will answer "yes" because most families with a stay at home parent live on less than that.
sure, but she never said that 8k a month is her bare bones budget, she said she is on a bare bones budget while he is out spending a ridiculous amount of money.

she is not asking if we would stay home with our children if our dh made less than $130k a year, she is asking if we would stay home if our husband was refusing to cut down his spending after drastically cutting down his income.

OP- i have read some of your other threads. it sounds like you (and to a possibly greater extent your dh) are waiting on an inheritance or trust fund to kick in and racking up tons of debt in the wait. Do you have a supportive family? would they be willing to help you out if you left your dh? From what you have said, I think I would leave. And I absolutely do not say this lightly. This is no different than a college student racking up loads of credit card debt because they think they will be able to pay it off with no problems when they get a real job. You will have to pay for this in the future, with interest, and it might not be as easy as you think. What if something happens to your trust fund? Don't count your chickens before they hatch and all of that, you know.
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Old 06-26-2010, 08:46 PM
 
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i dont think its fair to expect someone to work more than 40 hours/week. i definitely think if you arent making on that its time to get a part time job or cut way bck if hes unwilling to work more
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i dont think its fair to expect someone to work more than 40 hours/week. i definitely think if you arent making on that its time to get a part time job or cut way bck if hes unwilling to work more
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i work way over 40 a week trust me and always have whether at home or out. Maybe part of the problem is that i grew up around males that worked 12 hour days, my grandpa, dad, uncles, on both sides every man worked A LOT. it was sort of unbalanced the other way, we had a nanny and maid service while my mom was a sahm for 10 years. They did fine financially on 100 k a year on bay area, paid the live in nanny etc. my mom went shopping, took classes, cooked when she felt like it and on the weekends when the nanny was off my step dad did the laundry, dishes, cleaning etc. My mom never did that...

dh's life: his mom was married 4 times and his male role models sat on the couch with a beer in hand while his mom served. I think he thinks he is doing way more than the average man when i think he isnt doing enough so thats part of it.

I guess the real deal is that im scared, i feel alone without my dad (passed away a few months ago) and i want to feel like dh is more responsible and can hold down the fort while i morn and am pregnant, not take the opportunity to have a party since mom's not home!
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:09 PM
 
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sure, but she never said that 8k a month is her bare bones budget, she said she is on a bare bones budget while he is out spending a ridiculous amount of money.

she is asking if we would stay home if our husband was refusing to cut down his spending after drastically cutting down his income.

OP- i have read some of your other threads. it sounds like you (and to a possibly greater extent your dh) are waiting on an inheritance or trust fund to kick in and racking up tons of debt in the wait.
I went back and read some of the other threads. I don't think either of you seem very realistic about money, and I doesn't sound like the two of you are able (at this time) to work as a team.

The problem isn't the number of hours he works. It's way bigger than that.

I really like the Dave Ramesy book on money. You guys could try working through it together.

But if your DH refuses to act in any responsible way about money, divorcing him so he has to write you a check each month and then you can be responsible with that amount of money might provide your children with more security than staying married.

Doing it before your inheritance would be better than later, and doing it soon enough that his high-earning years could be considered when calculating his financial obligation to you and your kids might be in your kids' best interests.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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Old 06-26-2010, 10:38 PM
 
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i dont think its fair to expect someone to work more than 40 hours/week. i definitely think if you arent making on that its time to get a part time job or cut way bck if hes unwilling to work more
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I'm not much of an advice giver, so I don't have anything to offer in that way. I do, however, want to point out that self-employed individuals routinely work well over 40 hours per week.

After the birth of my first child (I was single) I ran a licensed family daycare from my home. I worked a minimum of 60 hours per week. 80 hours was common and 100 was not unheard of. I was with my daughter all the time, so it was worth it.

My husband is currently self-employed and also has a part-time job where he works 1-3 eight hour shifts per week. As I mentioned in another thread he is literally working from sun up to sun down. (For what it is worth, I also have a small pt paid job). He is completely ok with the hours he works because it is and always has been our priority for one of us to be home with our children.

Also OP you are quite right to point out that you are working well over 40 hours per week.
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:59 PM
 
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... Part of having the privelage of staying home is making sacrifices...living in an area with a lower cost of living, having a smaller house, and in general spending less. A child's relationship with BOTH parents is important, and so if I wanted to stay at home but we were $4K short a month (which is my DH's take home pay, and we live in a great house, eat an all organic diet, have memberships to various places, and have 3 kids, including 2 with special needs that require weekly therapies, so I can't fathom being bare bones and still needing that much money to break even...), the family would come to a mutual agreement on what to do. For me, it would involve moving to a less expensive area, giving up luxuries, selling things we didn't need, and if that still didn't make ends meet, I personally would be looking for a job where I could work from home or work evenings after my DH came home...

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Old 06-26-2010, 11:08 PM
 
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Personally for a short term "solution" if there is one, open up a separate account linked to your current one, pull out a certain amount each month (put together a true bare bones budget, after cutting cable and cell phone, and cutting coupons, etc) and leave him an "allowance" that he can spend. That's what my dh and I do and it works perfectly, if he spends all his money in one week on some item (which never happens), then its his problem, but it doesn't affect my ability to buy groceries or put gas in my car.

Sounds like the op needs to figure out why there is such a disconnect between her and her dh.
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:20 PM
 
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I'm not much of an advice giver, so I don't have anything to offer in that way. I do, however, want to point out that self-employed individuals routinely work well over 40 hours per week.

After the birth of my first child (I was single) I ran a licensed family daycare from my home. I worked a minimum of 60 hours per week. 80 hours was common and 100 was not unheard of. I was with my daughter all the time, so it was worth it.

My husband is currently self-employed and also has a part-time job where he works 1-3 eight hour shifts per week. As I mentioned in another thread he is literally working from sun up to sun down. (For what it is worth, I also have a small pt paid job). He is completely ok with the hours he works because it is and always has been our priority for one of us to be home with our children.

Also OP you are quite right to point out that you are working well over 40 hours per week.
oh i know some people do it. i have 2 jobs (sleep over nights) and i choose to work the hours i do but i as the wohp would be really upset if dh demanded i work more hours or treated me like i was lazy for working full time
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:19 PM
 
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OP, I think it's OK for you to feel upset about your DH changing the rules mid-game. He has historically been a worker and you guys have pulled in large incomes and have set your lifestyle up accordingly. Now, if he came to you and said, "DW, I really need to work less. I can work x amount of hours a week and bring in x dollars a month. I'm willing to curb my spending habits and change our lifestyle accordingly." But this isn't what he's doing. And he's not willing to even talk about budgeting. You guys need counseling or things could get bad in a hurry.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:11 AM
 
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Yeah, I don't see the problem being he refuses to work enough, but there clearly is a problem if he refuses to sit down with you and discuss how to live within the income you do have. That's not ok. I would insist that a money conversation is needed, and NOW. $4000 in the hole is NOT ok. Whether you need to increase income (either by him working or you working) or decrease expenses, it needs to be a family decision. IMO, once you have a family and a partner, you don't just get to decide to quit your job or buy stuff you don't have the money for without consulting your family/partner.

My DP has a good paying job that she hates, and some day she will leave it to do something else, but when she does, it had darn well better be after a family discussion about what will have to change to make things work.

To answer your question, OP, I would not go back to work with a newborn if I had any other options. After the 6-12 months range, I would go back to work if the money (after daycare & travel expenses) would be worth the family sacrifices of not having a SAHP.

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Old 06-29-2010, 02:52 PM
 
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I see from your recent posts that you have an inheritance coming.

Is it possible he sees that as a reason he doesn't have to think about money?

If that's the case, you both need to take a hard look at how much you *really* have coming. I bet it sounds like a lot when you put it the way you did in that other post. But you are currently racking up nearly 50K a year in debt. that will be 100K by the time you get access to your inheritance. Just how big is this inheritance? You say it's enough to buy a house and have a 3-6 month emergency fund. I'm sure that sounds great -- but its not REALLY all that much if you continue to dig yourself into a hole as fast as you are right now.

If I were you, I'd be consulting a financial planner/accountant and a lawyer. At the rate he's going, you could wind up with no money left by the time you get access to the money -- it will all be spent on things that you are jointly responsible for. YOu need to extricate yourself from his finances before your nest egg goes to paying off all his debts.

savithny, 42 year old moderate mom to DS Primo (age 12) and DD Secunda (age 9).

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Old 06-30-2010, 08:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KatWozBlue View Post
Personally for a short term "solution" if there is one, open up a separate account linked to your current one, pull out a certain amount each month (put together a true bare bones budget, after cutting cable and cell phone, and cutting coupons, etc) and leave him an "allowance" that he can spend. That's what my dh and I do and it works perfectly, if he spends all his money in one week on some item (which never happens), then its his problem, but it doesn't affect my ability to buy groceries or put gas in my car
That really only works if both parties are on the same page. When he runs out of his "allowance" he can merely put it on his credit cards. If you truly can't come to an agreement on money, you need to separate. You are going to be responsible for this financial hole that's being dug. Any idea how long it will take to dig out of something like this? What happens if the inheritance doesn't come through? What if it comes through and just covers everything "he's" spent in the last year or two. How are you going to feel about that? Are you going to be irritated by the lack of future you and your kids have because of current behavior?
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Old 07-01-2010, 12:19 AM
 
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Making a decision as a family to be single income isn't an easy thing to adjust to. Most of the single income families I know (mine included) make WELL under 50K/year. In fact, the majority are probably in the 30-35K range (still us). My DH runs his own business, and I run the business end of it because I'm more financially oriented. He's been on his own since fall of last year and it's BARELY paying the bills but slowly moving in the right direction. With his unemployment span last year and then the business start up, it's been a long road to getting where we need to be.

Your only choices are to increase income or decrease expenses, or some combination of the two. It sounds like the area you have the most control over the situation is to decrease expenses, and leave the increasing income (or not) up to him.

Being 4K over budget each MONTH is mind boggling to me. SOMETHING has to have room to give here. Make it your mission in life to find it and eliminate those expenses ASAP!

Best of luck!

GOOD moms let their kids lick the beaters. GREAT moms turn off the mixer first!
Humanist Woman Wife , & Friend Plus Mama to 6 (3 mos, 2, 9, 13, 17, 20)
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