Where did the idea come from that little kids are better off NOT at home with their moms? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 196 Old 04-01-2012, 05:18 AM
 
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I try very hard not to judge other parents. What people do with their kids is their business, barring abuse of course, I just don't care. We all try to do our best. The thing about preschool that grates on my nerves is the government sponsored idea, that all children NEED to be in preschool, and very young children NEED to be educated. I personally believe, our early education system in many cases, is really not developmentally appropriate or healthy for young children. I think the government needs to butt out and worry about k-12. This trickle down effect is not serving our children well. I'm not talking about daycare programs to help lower income parents work btw! I'm all for government subsidizing those if need be. I'm talking about short preschool programs. If parents want to send their children to preschool because they need a break, or their child is very social and wants to play, or their child has special needs and needs services or whatever, rock on. That's every parents right to choose. I wouldn't judge anyone on it. smile.gif

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#92 of 196 Old 04-01-2012, 07:24 AM
 
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I don't think daycare is negative I just prefer people to call it what it is. My niece is almost 3 and just moved up to pre-school so I call it pre-school, before that I called it day care.


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#93 of 196 Old 04-01-2012, 01:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mambera View Post

 

 

I used to say 'day care' but since the activities there (Montessori) seemed more and more school-like once she moved to the 2+ room I switched to calling it 'preschool.'  It's not because the term 'day care' carries any negative connotations for me, though it seems to for you for some reason.  ??


 

 

Hm, there are other reasons to have two working parents besides financial necessity and gross materialism.  We like our jobs, DD likes her preschool (or day care if you will), it's good for her social development, and we'd be driving each other nuts alone together all day.  I suppose I could stay home with some corner-cutting but we'd all be miserable so I don't see the point.
 

 


Sorry, I wasn't trying to say those are the only two possible reasons for someone to choose to work... I was speculating on why some people might be unaccepting of my lifestyle. I was trying to say that a SAHM who has all the things that society says we 'need' isn't subjected to the same judgement as a SAHM whose family lives on a much lower income. I think most people can agree that happiness is a necessity, or at least should be a very high priority. How each of us goes about that is our own business. 

 

For me 'daycare' is when the kids are there for a full 8 hour day, usually 5 days a week, and 'preschool' is a 2 hour program, 2 or 3 times a week.


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#94 of 196 Old 04-01-2012, 02:39 PM
 
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I don't personally think it's helpful to send babies and toddlers 2 and younger to preschool, though I don't know that it's harmful either. I just don't know how much it's about education.

OTOH, I do think some preschool is helpful, and I'm glad I sent my older child, and I plan to send my younger child, at 3.5 years. Kids can learn ABCs and all that at home of course, but there are things that they can only learn in a group that will prepare them for school if they'll be going to regular school. Things like how to sit in a circle and participate in a group activity, how to line up, it's a big help in learning to take turns and share, learning how to listen to a story told to a group (which is different than when a story is read to just you.) That kind of thing. Kindergartens expect kids to know how to behave in a classroom setting when they start kindergarten.

My older daughter loved preschool, and my younger one is excited to start. It can be a great thing. I wouldn't say kids are better off there, but I don't think they're worse off, and I think there are things they learn at preschool which make going to kindergarten easier for them.
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#95 of 196 Old 04-03-2012, 09:23 AM
 
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In response to the original poster, I totally agree with you.  Where I live in Canada, they just started a new full day pre-kindergarten for 4 year olds.  Prior to that it was half-time Pre-K.  I'm a SAHM and strongly believe in at least one parent (or other close family member) being with their child on a daily basis for those early years.  I feel that developing a secure attachment with a person that truly loves the child is very important.  That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.  I have worked my life around it.  We have gotten creative living single-income in a double-income society.  I do recognize that it is somewhat of a luxury in our culture to actually be able to stay home with your children.  I do not judge those who cannot or choose not to stay home.  Each person does what they need to do based on necessity, or personal choice.

 

In some cultures, it is unheard of to let a stranger have any say in what your kids do all day.  But here is is normal to ship off young infants into institutional care.  I do have a hard time thinking this is any good for the little ones.

 

I went to enroll my son in Pre-K with the intention of doing just part-time.  And I was met with resistance from the principal and vice-principal.  They seemed to think my son would be better off full-time (35 hours in their care)! I don't get it.  I've taught him so much in his short life, so why all of a sudden am I unqualified because our goverment implemented full-day kindergarten a few years ago?  Our goverment thinks that their early education is building a better workforce for tomorrow.  Grooming little children to be little workers at 4 years old. Sickening.  So many children are in before-school programs, in school all day, after-school daycare, then evening extra-curriculars.  They are over-scheduled, and have exhausted, emotionally unavailable parents.  Childhood is rushed, and children are hurried to grow up.  My son has many years of full-time school ahead of him.  Why such a rush to get started? 

 

Follow your heart, do what feels right.  Your intuition is strong and accurate on this one.  Little children need their mommies.  They should be eating lunch at their family table, having naps in their own beds. 

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#96 of 196 Old 04-03-2012, 01:17 PM
 
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I haven't read answers beyond the first page. OP, I completely understand what you  mean. I grew up in a European country that provides that too and it is commonly accepted that you have to put kids in daycare or they won't get socialized, that mom cannot teach them and so on. That background is offensive and I dislike it so very much as well. DS was home with me until 2.5 years when he started 2.5h preschool twice a week. At 3, he started 3h preschool 5 days a week in the mornings. I had DD too at that time so it was a break for me, and time to concentrate only on DD. But DS did great, and he caught up on his English (he only actively spoke my language at that point; he could understand English btu didn't bother to speak it). I specifically though chose a school that teaches a certain curriculum that I like (letters, phonograms, such). So it is not daycare, it is a school, which is a huge difference to me. I realize daycare is a necessity to working moms, but not to us SAHMs. 3h of preschool is not 3h of daycare.

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#97 of 196 Old 04-03-2012, 05:32 PM
 
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I haven't finished this thread (read the first few pages quite a while ago, but  haven't been back recently - I'm on page four), but want to comment on something that I see a lot in the WOHM/SAHM section of the Mommy Wars.

 

I was a WOHM for the first ten years of ds1's life. That ended when I went on maternity leave with dd1. I've been a SAHM ever since (nine years this month). I hated being a WOHM, but there were really no options, financially. My paycheque was what kept a roof over our heads, and food on the table. I desperately wanted to be a SAHM, which made WOH even worse. I hated missing so much time with ds1, and wasn't even a little bit interested in having a career. I can't even relate to wanting a career (male or female - dh steps up to the plate to provide for us, but I wouldn't marry someone who was really ambitious, either - just not a vibe that I want in my personal space).

 

That said...having an emotional need to earn money, be financially independent, challenge oneself in the workplace, etc. is absolutely a legitimate reason to go to work. Some people really don't thrive as SAHPs, and if a mom is truly overwhelmed, bored, in need or more adult face time and/or mental stimulation...who the f--k am I to say they should ignore that and stay home? I don't think being reared by someone who is martyring herself 24/7 to do something she thinks she "should" do, but doesn't want to do, or enjoy doing, is going to benefit from that. If a woman has a need to be in the workforce, or climbing the ladder, or whatever, then she shouldn't have to ignore that need. We, as SAHMs, don't get to decide if said need is valid or not.

 

And, yeah - I think it's a shame when a mom is constantly fed up with her kids, and can't wait to get away from them....but if that's how she really feels, then I definitely think her kids are better off at preschool, daycare, or whatever. I remember how it felt to live with someone (my ex) who didn't value me and didn't want me around, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, let alone a kid. (This paragraph was specifically about an aunt metioned upthread, not about WOHMs, in general.)

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#98 of 196 Old 04-04-2012, 08:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mambera View Post

I just want to say I think it is a bit of a misconception that all parents who feel preschool is good for their children are pushing 'early education.'  I feel preschool is good for my child because it is interesting and entertaining for her to be with a group of children than it would be for her to be home with me all day (I WOH anyway, but even if I did SAH I woul  to send her to a group setting assuming it were financially feasible).

 

I don't personally feel my  2y/o 'needs' to learn reading or arithmetic yet (although she is picking up both quite well, mostly from being read to and 'taught' stuff by DH), but I do really feel that she needs to learn how to interact with other children in a group setting. 

 

If you want to play the 'natural' or 'evolutionarily appropriate' or 'traditional-cultures' or whatever card, then in most of these settings it has been the norm for children to be exposed on a daily basis to a community of people who are not their parents. 

 

Now it's true that preschool doesn't equal 'the village,' but I think it does a better job than being home alone with mom all day.



I want to address this because i think it was me who brought up an evolutionary angle.

 

Did you miss where i said:

 

 

Quote:
We went to groups, parks, museums, hung out at the library, saw friends, worked our way through the toddler and preschooler busy-books...

 

and

 

 

Quote:
 Kids need contact with other PEOPLE, of all ages.  So long as your kid gets contact with other people, preferably loving people who are interested in them and kind to them, they will do great.  How you choose (or become or provide) those influences is up to you.

 

I'm not "playing a card" and i totally agree (and did state even in my original post) that kids need PEOPLE!  We really must all begin to see past this binary "at home=alone with mama/at preschool=with other people" dichotomy.  It's completely false and it just fuels a war that none of us are actually wanting to fight!  I am not trying to defend my right to keep my kid at home with only me for company any more than a person using preschool is trying to defend her dumping her kid so she can get a break!  My kid is not stuck in bored and alone with me and her kid is not "dumped" at preschool!  We're merely making different decisions to get the needs of our kids met.

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#99 of 196 Old 04-04-2012, 12:10 PM
 
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I'm sorry, I got interrupted while writing that post or I would have been less abrupt.  I don't think I was responding to GoBecGo's post actually, rather to a couple of others that suggested the main reason for preschool is a desire for early formal education.  And I absolutely am not interested in fighting a 'mommy war' - obviously we are all making the choices that we feel are best for our own families, and it's completely impossible to say what somebody else's kid needs since kids are so different from each other and have such disparate individual developmental trajectories and needs.

 

But since we are on the topic, regarding the 'village' thing, I really do not think that either of the options available to modern parents approximates 'the village,' meaning a community of constant composition, of people of different ages, mostly older than the child, engaged in various meaningful/productive pursuits that the kids can learn about by watching and participating to the extent that they are able, but that are not engineered around the child. 

 

Preschool doesn't do it because all the kids are at the same developmental age, doing activities specifically geared for that age, and there are only a couple of adults around and they are concentrating on the kids.  Home with a SAHP doesn't do it either (unless you are in a large multigenerational family situation maybe) even if there are lots of outside activities, because the exposure to other people is intermittent, the composition of the community is changing, and again the activities are geared specifically to the child.

 

But beyond that, I also want to take a step back and ask to what degree it is important to try to 'approximate the village' anyway?  It does sound like a really nice kind of life (assuming a good climate and plentiful natural resources of course) but OTOH 'the village' is not where we live.  My kid is going to have to navigate her way through standard schooling and labor force participation where she is constantly going to be in the company of peers so I would like her to be comfortable in that kind of situation.  I do like the aspect of preschool where the community is made up of the same people day in, day out because I think that helps a child learn how to relate to others effectively. 


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#100 of 196 Old 04-04-2012, 02:28 PM
 
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     Quote:

Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post

We really must all begin to see past this binary "at home=alone with mama/at preschool=with other people" dichotomy. 


I couldn't agree more. My daughter definitely didn't lack exposure to other people before she started preschool at nearly age 5 (she missed the cutoff for kindergarten by a couple months). She came out into the community with me and participated in daily life. She knew all the folks at the library, bank, post office, and local shops. We spent a lot of time with friends and neighbors. Apparently all that must have served her well because she had no trouble adjusting to school, and she got along very well with everyone. 

 

 

edited to fix typo

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#101 of 196 Old 04-05-2012, 06:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by littlest birds View Post

Wow, how unnecessarily heated!  The OP is talking about one idea that bothers her.  People assuming toddlers "should" be in a school type of setting.  Not whether it's a good choice for some people but assuming one thing is right for all children.  She isn't referring to reasons people individually make that choice, and I think more so it is frustration that her community members don't even consider her own choices as valid.  


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#102 of 196 Old 04-05-2012, 06:57 PM
 
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There are some darn good reasons to use daycare and preschools and the like.  If it works for your family - great!

 

The idea that all children have to be in a structured/institutional setting by two or three or they are doomed is preposterous - and somewhat offensive to women.

 

 

 

 

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#103 of 196 Old 04-05-2012, 07:25 PM
 
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Responding to the OP.  Warning: snarky post ahead.  Addressing myself, or some fictional mother.  Any resemblance to any pp is entirely accidental because I've only read 10 posts, first and last.

 

For me I feel this is related to the same issues that surrounds the parent that hasn't started using babysitters and taking regular "me" time.  Because if you don't, you know, that's an unhealthy relationship.  In addition, daycares and preschools are staffed with *trained professionals*. You, mama, are not a trained professional, you know!  Your only experience comes from actually giving birth and raising your kids.  But these professionals, they have been to *college* to study kids and are sooooo much more qualified than you.  Can you state how many things a child is learning by stacking blocks?  Do you?  If you cannot state the reasons a child should play with blocks, you are not qualified.  Are all your games and activities proven to be educational to a child's intellectual and emotional development?  Did you write your thesis on incremental academic progression in the prefrontal lobes of reticent amorphous juveniles?  (biglaugh.gif Quick break.  I'm amusing myself too much with this inane banter.)  Every activity in daycare and preschool is carefully designed to provide maximum developmental growth.  And we've scheduled free play, with preapproved toys that are safe and squashy and washable and antibacterial and non-pointable, from 2pm to 3pm.

 

And, back to the main point..... who are you?  Just a mom.  You need a break, we all know you do, because you are not designed to tolerate children with perfect patience 24 hrs a day.  If you lost your patience yesterday, that's just a sign, again, that you are not qualified.

 

Oh, and if you don't make the break with your kids now, they will be sleeping in you bed until they are 34.

 

Selfish mother, share your child with the rest of us.  You really aren't up to the job.

 

We are always here to help you.  Until another 10 years when we discover that what we've been doing is actually detrimental bunk.  But we'll still know more than you.

 

Hope y'all made it through without thinking I was talking about you.  I've taken a real kind of pressure that has personally been pushed on me and made it absurd.  orngtongue.gif

 

 


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#104 of 196 Old 04-05-2012, 07:38 PM
 
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Like I said, I like preschool as an easing-into-school thing, and I sent my first for 2 mornings a week when she was 3.5, then 3 mornings a week when she was 4.5, and then it was easy for her to go 5 mornings a week to kindergarten. Of course now it's all whole-day kindergarten so that throws my plan off with #2.

What I don't get it starting it younger and younger, and wanting them there all day. The preschool did tell me my oldest would be better off there 5 full days a week, as I recall. I just don't think formal education is an issue for 3-year-olds. They need to play and have fun. They learn the most just playing.

I also don't get wanting them to go younger and younger. We'll have prenatal preschool some day where pregnant moms will go and sit in a circle with speakers pushed against their bellies.

I think it's great to have good places if both parents work or if they do need a break, but I don't think it's preferable to being with a parent. If you are going to send your kid to school, I think it can be useful for getting them used to that kind of a setting and easing them into the whole school thing.

I think a lot of it is just marketing. They make more money the more kids they have and the longer they're there, and having classes for 2-year-olds opens up a new marekt.
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#105 of 196 Old 04-06-2012, 12:11 AM
 
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Snarky?  No... funny... yes! 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSilver View Post

Responding to the OP.  Warning: snarky post ahead.  Addressing myself, or some fictional mother.  Any resemblance to any pp is entirely accidental because I've only read 10 posts, first and last.

 

For me I feel this is related to the same issues that surrounds the parent that hasn't started using babysitters and taking regular "me" time.  Because if you don't, you know, that's an unhealthy relationship.  In addition, daycares and preschools are staffed with *trained professionals*. You, mama, are not a trained professional, you know!  Your only experience comes from actually giving birth and raising your kids.  But these professionals, they have been to *college* to study kids and are sooooo much more qualified than you.  Can you state how many things a child is learning by stacking blocks?  Do you?  If you cannot state the reasons a child should play with blocks, you are not qualified.  Are all your games and activities proven to be educational to a child's intellectual and emotional development?  Did you write your thesis on incremental academic progression in the prefrontal lobes of reticent amorphous juveniles?  (biglaugh.gif Quick break.  I'm amusing myself too much with this inane banter.)  Every activity in daycare and preschool is carefully designed to provide maximum developmental growth.  And we've scheduled free play, with preapproved toys that are safe and squashy and washable and antibacterial and non-pointable, from 2pm to 3pm.

 

And, back to the main point..... who are you?  Just a mom.  You need a break, we all know you do, because you are not designed to tolerate children with perfect patience 24 hrs a day.  If you lost your patience yesterday, that's just a sign, again, that you are not qualified.

 

Oh, and if you don't make the break with your kids now, they will be sleeping in you bed until they are 34.

 

Selfish mother, share your child with the rest of us.  You really aren't up to the job.

 

We are always here to help you.  Until another 10 years when we discover that what we've been doing is actually detrimental bunk.  But we'll still know more than you.

 

Hope y'all made it through without thinking I was talking about you.  I've taken a real kind of pressure that has personally been pushed on me and made it absurd.  orngtongue.gif

 

 



 

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#106 of 196 Old 04-09-2012, 01:29 PM
 
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But there are plenty of folks who might say that you were a bad parent for even trying to do it all yourself, and that you did your 2 and 4 year olds a disservice for not putting them into preschool so that they could play, make friends, and have trained teachers to help them learn more. And it will go on and on if you do homeschool -- I get all kinds of grief for homeschooling my 9 year old, especially since he has separation anxiety. My SIL told me he's too sheltered and my aunt told me that I was harming him by not forcing him to go to school.

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Wouldn't the world be better if we could all get along and realize we are ALL doing the BEST we can for OUR family? No 2 families are alike,.I plan on homeschooling but I was very close to sending my 4 and 2 year old to preschool last year. I was along with a infant, 2 year old and 4 year old with my husband deployed. So basically a single mom with a wedding band. Only thing I didn't do was bring in a pay check. NO ONE was willing to help me, not my inlaws who lived down the street, not anyone from church.. no one. I was totally alone. You know how hard it is to be on 24 hours a day 7 days a week for almost 9 months straight? I still don't know HOW I did it without totally losing my mind, Am I a "bad" parent for considering to send my young "babies" to school for a couple mornings a week? No. I was someone who needed a break. Just like my neighbor who sends her only daughter (3 yo) to preschool 3 mornings a week, she needs a break. Its not that they can't raise or teach their children, its that they are human and we all need breaks once in a while..

 

I think people need to find some compassion and love for the people around them.


I think part of it is, that when it's a choice, no matter which choice you make, it can be easy to feel somewhat defensive about it unless everyone else is making the same choice. Also, if your choice is different that those around you, it can be hard both because your choice isn't being validated and because the social network to support that choice is not in place.

I did put ds into preschool at 4 because most of the moms who I'd met were doing so and my ds suddenly had nobody to play with, and his best friend's mom asked us to send him to the preschool she had chosen for her child. He had fun but didn't really make any real new friends, other than one who dropped him like a hot potato as soon as he started (full day) kindergarten.

 

This is a slightly different point of view but: 

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/12/love-key-to-brain-development-in-children/?hpt=hp_t2

 


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#107 of 196 Old 04-09-2012, 01:37 PM
 
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How is it possible to work 42 hours a week and still have almost full home duties? Do you not sleep or something? I'm not asking to be snarky I'd really like to know.

Quote:

 

 

Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post
 

nice, very nice.  As Mother who works 42 hours a week on a schedule that gives me almost full home duties.  As in I still do it ALL and more... your comment is pretty unsettling.

 

The question is... do your kids not have any friends or require a social life?

 

 


 



 



 


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#108 of 196 Old 04-11-2012, 12:54 PM
 
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banghead.gif Got this crap from MIL on Easter....I was "informed" DD NEEDS pre-school and she is "socially deprived" for not being in daycare. I said "Yeah you going to pay for it?" She thinks it's free here! (It's not)

 

We are planning to homeschool anyways so I guess that is somewhere this thread could venture, are homeschooled kids socially deprived? *I* don't think they are as long as they are in groups and sports, have kids to play with etc. I also don't think school is a place for socializing b.c you are told to sit down and shut up really. I know in my elementary school if we talked during LUNCH we were not allowed to go out for recess...

 

I think pre-school kids socialize but like someone else said it's all the same exact age group.


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#109 of 196 Old 04-11-2012, 01:06 PM
 
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banghead.gif Got this crap from MIL on Easter....I was "informed" DD NEEDS pre-school and she is "socially deprived" for not being in daycare. I said "Yeah you going to pay for it?" She thinks it's free here! (It's not)

 

We are planning to homeschool anyways so I guess that is somewhere this thread could venture, are homeschooled kids socially deprived? *I* don't think they are as long as they are in groups and sports, have kids to play with etc. I also don't think school is a place for socializing b.c you are told to sit down and shut up really. I know in my elementary school if we talked during LUNCH we were not allowed to go out for recess...

 

I think pre-school kids socialize but like someone else said it's all the same exact age group.


Really? My public school experience wasn't anything like that at all. Lots of discussion, lots of physical activity, and no one was ever told to shut up. We were expected to pay attention to certain things, but group work was always encouraged (which meant we were talking alot). I wouldn't send my child to a school where he was expected to sit down a shut up. Behavioral expectations are one thing, but they should always be age appropriate.

 

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#110 of 196 Old 04-11-2012, 01:37 PM
 
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Did you see my line afterwards? We weren't even allowed to talk during lunch this was K-4th grade! Public school in the town I lived.


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#111 of 196 Old 04-11-2012, 02:38 PM
 
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   oops accidentally posted before ready

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#112 of 196 Old 04-11-2012, 03:57 PM
 
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Did you see my line afterwards? We weren't even allowed to talk during lunch this was K-4th grade! Public school in the town I lived.



I don't think most schools are run like this anymore. DH used to get hit on the knuckles K-8. Things are different now.

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#113 of 196 Old 04-11-2012, 04:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sosurreal09 View Post

banghead.gif Got this crap from MIL on Easter....I was "informed" DD NEEDS pre-school and she is "socially deprived" for not being in daycare. I said "Yeah you going to pay for it?" She thinks it's free here! (It's not)

 

 


As a homeschooler, I am not going to embark on yet another socialization argument (BTDT).  I'd just as soon have debate with an anti-abortion activist or a creationist, if only for the change of scenery.

 

But anyway, I do find it funny that being social with siblings and parents just doesn't seem to register as valid enough with the folks (the elusive "they") that the OP is griping about.

 


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#114 of 196 Old 04-11-2012, 04:47 PM
 
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      *

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#115 of 196 Old 04-11-2012, 05:39 PM
 
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At my daughter's school, there's a lot of good socialization, but there's bad socialization too. I think it's a wash between homeschool and public school as far as that goes. More socialization at school but not all of it good. Anyway, just a personal opinion added in.
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#116 of 196 Old 04-11-2012, 06:38 PM
 
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the elementary school here doesn't allow talking at lunch, either. it's pretty normal in our area.


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#117 of 196 Old 04-11-2012, 07:43 PM
 
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the elementary school here doesn't allow talking at lunch, either. it's pretty normal in our area.


How is this possible? What is the reasoning behind this rule? (Sorry, OP, I had to ask.)

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#118 of 196 Old 04-12-2012, 05:08 AM
 
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they do not have much time for lunch, so they have to be quiet and hurry to eat. the kids get in trouble for talking. no talking in line, or in class. so socializing is done at recess, unless it is raining, then they must quietly watch a movie!


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#119 of 196 Old 04-12-2012, 06:19 AM
 
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Movie instead of recess! Wow at least we got to play kickball in the gym if it rained...

 

I'm 24 BTW so I'm not that old, no clue if that school changed or not.


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#120 of 196 Old 04-12-2012, 07:32 AM
 
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we got to play in the gym also on rainy days. my daughter comes home hyper as heck everyday. i let her as much as i can stand! we homeschooled until this year, 2 of the kids wanted to go to school.


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