Where did the idea come from that little kids are better off NOT at home with their moms? - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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#181 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 11:00 AM
 
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Sorry. DP
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#182 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 12:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by geekgolightly View Post

i am a SAHM and i am really excited that my kiddo can start going to preschool part time. i can start to get the housework done without high needs bb following me undoing my work, get better organized, and exercise without waiting until he naps and then stopping when he wakes up. it is win win and i am not a bad parent for being happy about this new change.
i'm a mommy not a martyr.

 

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I'll admit that I'd also like to submit to that list "martyrdom isn't good for anybody." There's plenty of martyrdom on display here, and I freely admit I don't get it. I don't think parental unhappiness is good for children, and I don't get why anyone would sign on for an extra helping of it that they could avoid. I understand the automatic defensiveness that comes out in response. I'm not a lesser parent because I chose grad school and then a fulltime job instead of staying home going nuts because some people think that's what good moms should do.
I trust other parents to do as I have, and make choices that work for them. Just don't kick me while you're doing it.

I must admit that the I've only skimmed the posts through the middle of the thread because most in the middle were off on some debate without really reading the first part of the thread, and some not even reading the first post.  So, though I've "kept up" I haven't read each and every post thoroughly.  My apologies.....

 

......but, where did martyrdom come in with this?  I am unaware of any parent trudging through with something tortuous, difficult, and making the ultimate sacrifice for a belief [that children are better off at home] [that children are better off at preschool]?  Where is the display?  Perhaps some financial situations that force a particular decision or another might make for some bad feelings, but martyrdom??  I'm not seeing where the display is from either side, just requests (or demands, at times I suppose) to understand a person's choices and individual situations.

 

Maybe I am simply misunderstanding the posts.


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#183 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 12:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SweetSilver View Post

 

......but, where did martyrdom come in with this?  I am unaware of any parent trudging through with something tortuous, difficult, and making the ultimate sacrifice for a belief [that children are better off at home] [that children are better off at preschool]?  Where is the display?  Perhaps some financial situations that force a particular decision or another might make for some bad feelings, but martyrdom??  I'm not seeing where the display is from either side, just requests (or demands, at times I suppose) to understand a person's choices and individual situations.

 

Just in the past little bit - check out posts #164 and 174. 

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#184 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 02:28 PM
 
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really, you don't see the martyrdom? the - my children "need" me full time-, -i must be there for them All The Time-, -daycare *is* inferior- is all over this thread!

 

children do not *need* one parent 24/7. i am a mommy, but i am also a human being who needs to shower, exercise her body, eat foods without it getting thrown in my hair, and hopefully someday, have the time to develop an outside interest. because there are many things i am interested in, not just being a MOMMY ALL THE TIME. it is healthy to have outside interests.

 

i think if all a woman wants out of her life is being a mommy, she should go for it, but it's not me, and i am really tired of the prevalent notion at mothering (which used to be an internet home for me) that mommies are nothing more than mommies. it's asinine to assume that as soon as you give birth, you lose all interest in the entirety of the world.

 

and this is for all of the privileged mommies who *can* stay at home, like me. i'm not even gonna touch on how offensive it is to hear this kind of thing for moms who actually need to work to put food on the table.

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#185 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 02:57 PM
 
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This has gotten ridiculous!! There is no need for either group to try to force their ideas on the other. It's time to call a truce. We are all doing our best for our children.
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#186 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 03:03 PM
 
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This has gotten ridiculous!! There is no need for either group to try to force their ideas on the other. It's time to call a truce. We are all doing our best for our children.


not just a truce, but a real understanding that everyone is doing what they think is best for their own families. it is time for mothering.com to move away from the mindset that if someone is doing something different from what you perceive to be right for your family, it doesn't mean it's wrong for all eternity. that takes real empathy, and i think everyone here can do it and stop being so judgmental.

 

i left because i was tired of the judgments. i'm back and i hope things change. this place has gotten so slow, and IMO the collective think on parenting is part of that.


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#187 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 05:05 PM
 
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I have neither a spouse available 24/7, nor do I have a fat bank account, and perfect health. I DO however have a DESIRE to see my children grow up, loved, secure and safe. Something I can not guarantee will be provided by ANY other caretaker. 

 

I ALONE parent these kids, as my husband is working in Alaska. I wont go into my health or my bank account, as that is irrelevant, I never said you MUST be with your kids 24/7 I simply think it is best, you can choose who parents (molds, educates, influences) your children. That is why they are yours. But *I* feel it is healthier and safer in the direct care of a mother who loves that child far better than any other human can. 

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#188 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 06:06 PM
 
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Yep.

I was once a sahm, briefly a ft wohm, now a pt wohm. My work schedule allows me to only work nights and weekends and be home with my kids all week. Which is awesome in a lot of ways.

I don't HAVE to send my 3yo to preschool. but he loves it and is a much happier boy since starting there. He loves the routine, and he learns a lot from being around kids his own age. He has special needs, and being around kids his own age has helped him progress more than anything else we've done. And I am a happier mom, because i have a few hours a week now to spend extra time with my littlest, and to rush around tackling Mt Laundry so that I don't sit around guilting myself for a messy house, as I am prone to do.

I feel like I have a little respite in my week, and that's a good thing for my emotional and physical health. I don't expect the preschool teachers to love and care for him the way I do; why would they, he's not their kid and he doesn't live with them. Just because they don't treat him exactly like I would doesn't mean they can't be a positive influence on him. They are.

I didn't send my oldest, and that was the right decision for her. But different kids and different families need different things.

It's not all one size fits all, and that's okay. Not "WRONG" for another family to do things differently. I'm finding that the more kids I have, the less I resent other people for doing what works for them. The majority of us are just trying to do our best. smile.gif

edited by queenofthemeadow to remove a quoted UAV

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#189 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 06:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by deannaggg View Post

You do not need to parent 24/7, but do you SERIOUSLY think the person who is your care provider is going to love, nurture and care for your child as well as you can?

 

Of course no care provider loves my child "as well as" I can.  That's not their job.  It's not their work to replace me, or to somehow be parents for ten and only ten hours a day for three and only three years.  AND THAT'S FINE.  I hired them to take on a certain task, and that task has limitations.  They agreed to take money in exchange for certain work, and they have some pretty firm boundaries.  The daycare workers are really important partners for us, in caring for the kids, but it's not a shock that they aren't us.

 

As for caring for the kids as well as I can?  It's an open question.  Our house is on the corner of two busy streets, where there are frequent car accidents - our yard is not a safe place for children to play.  In order to safely play outside, we have to load up and drive to a playground.  So I chose a daycare located in the middle of a city park.  I was specifically trying to address an issue with our living situation.  While in care, the kids spend about 3 hours a day outside when the weather's good.  Serious improvement over what I'd manage myself.  I'm absolutely horrendous at planning meals and mealtimes.  Daycare has a service bring hot lunch in, and they serve breakfast and snack, relieving me of the chore I am worst at - also an improvement for the kids.  Daycare potty trained both my kids.  Daycare had a clever trick for getting them not to cuss after I taught them how.  Daycare has had solid advice for a bunch of parenting quandaries, which they've given only on request.  (I also have a part time nanny.  He's awesome.  He's way more experienced with kids then I am, and I am more appreciative then I can say.  I have seen no evidence that he's been tempted to offer the kids corn chips and a multivitamin for lunch, which puts him one up on me.  The children have definitely benefited from having him around.  He has what I don't, the ability to announce that since this is finals week, he will not be coping with my kids.  He's not a replacement parent either.)  (And my kids spend a lot of weekends with my parents these days!  There is, however, nothing keeping my mother from bringing me back two sugared-up kiddos and telling me to get them some snowpants.)

 

I am immensely grateful, every day, that I am able to raise my kids in the heart of so much family and community.  I am grateful to have so many resources.  Sometimes there are hard physical limitations on my ability to care for my kids, and it's really important that we can reach out in so many directions when that happens.  If you WANT this much childcare, and you are lucky enough to be able to get it, and you and your kids are all happy and healthy, I don't think you should have to go around saying that you have some kind of special dispensation that allows you this much childcare.  Fundamentally, what allows anyone this much help is great good fortune. 

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#190 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 10:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by deannaggg View Post

I have neither a spouse available 24/7, nor do I have a fat bank account, and perfect health. I DO however have a DESIRE to see my children grow up, loved, secure and safe. Something I can not guarantee will be provided by ANY other caretaker. 

 

I ALONE parent these kids, as my husband is working in Alaska. I wont go into my health or my bank account, as that is irrelevant, I never said you MUST be with your kids 24/7 I simply think it is best, you can choose who parents (molds, educates, influences) your children. That is why they are yours. But *I* feel it is healthier and safer in the direct care of a mother who loves that child far better than any other human can. 

 

Really? Mothers have beaten and killed their own children. Mothers have sat back whlie their husbands or boyfriends sexually abused their children. Mothers have stayed with men who are beating their children, and even covered for them. Mothers have walked out to party and left their children at home, unattended. Mothers have left children in dirty diapers for hours and hours, resulting in horrific diaper rashes. (Fathers have done all these things, too - I'm not mother bashing.) Being a mother is a function of biology (or legality, in the case of adoption, or simple choice in case of being partner to a man with full custody of his children). Being a mother does not automatically mean that one will love any given child better than any other human can.

 

 

edited by queenofthemeadow to remove a quoted UAV


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#191 of 196 Old 12-04-2012, 10:29 PM
 
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Also, your assertion that people who put their children in daycare (which is "wrong", apparently) aren't parenting their children is whacked. DS1 was in care (I was lucky enough to be able to get care in my home, from relatives, but it still wasn't me) for years. I was still his parent. I was still the one who dealt with medical issues, and made appointments with the doctor and the dentist. I was still the one who fixed most of his food. I was still the one who decided on the household rules. I was still the one who made the decisions about staying up late, when he could have a treat, etc. I was still the one who tucked him into bed each night, and listened to him talk about his day. I was still the one who helped with his homework, when he got to that age. I was still the one who sang to him at bedtime.

 

I can assure you that my now almost 20 year old son has no confusion about who his parent was.

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#192 of 196 Old 12-12-2012, 07:56 AM
 
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deannagg and tpase-

I have removed any of your posts that are against the UA and the SAHM forum guidlines.  Specifically:

 

Quote:

Any debates or demeaning comments about mothers who have other lifestyle choices will be closed and the posters alerted or warned.
 

Please do not post in this manner again.

 

I am also going to go through and remove any quotes of deannagg's post so that I can re-open the thread.  I will also be removing any posts that are personal attacks. 


 
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#193 of 196 Old 12-12-2012, 08:16 AM
 
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OK, we are back in business.  I want to remind everyone of the forum guidlines again.

 

Quote:

Any debates or demeaning comments about mothers who have other lifestyle choices will be closed and the posters alerted or warned.
 

This is not a place to start or continue the mommy wars.

 

 

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Welcome to The Stay At Home Parenting Forum! This forum is a place for stay at home parents to discuss issues that are unique to being a SAHP. All threads in this forum should be specific to being a SAHP. There are many threads that SAHPs may wish to post that may apply to the community in general. If this is the case, please place the thread in the appropriate forum outside of SAHPing. Here is a small list of examples of what does and does not belong n SAHPing. If you have any questions about whether a thread belongs here or not, you can PM a moderator or ask in Q&S.

Any debates or demeaning comments about mothers who have other lifestyle choices will be closed and the posters alerted or warned.
 


 
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#194 of 196 Old 12-12-2012, 10:41 PM
 
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Women have paid others to care for their children for a long time, and moms have had other relatives care for their young children for even longer. If you are a stay at home mom, and can afford preschool, and really think your child enjoys it, then that is your choice. I think that the OP was trying to say that she feels that the trend now is to say that all kids should spend a good chunk of their childhood in daycare or preschool, and that even stay at home moms are doing it (since they are in the vast majority in most or all Western countries). It isn't just women who must work who have set this trend -- just read Mary Poppins (there is a series of them, published over a long period of time in the 20th Century) to see that wealthy women have had others raise their kids for them. The time involved in caring for children can be quite demanding, and is not highly valued in our culture. I did send my first child to preschool for one year (a coop preschool), mostly because I wanted a bit of a break but also because his friend was going there and she was suddenly not available for him to play with). I am homeschooling him now, and don't have the time nor money to send dd to preschool. Sometimes I worry that she is being deprived, but I know that she is introverted and doesn't have high social needs, and at this time, anyway, I am able to do a lot of projects with her that she might do in preschool.

Each of us has to do what is best for our family. It would be nice if folks could just share their stories and what works for them without trying to tell others what to do. Support is so hard to come by when you are a SAHM.


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#195 of 196 Old 12-13-2012, 01:32 PM
 
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Schooling is IMO someplace where there is, in many cases, more than one good choice. My younger one (close to 4) is in preschool two days a week for 3 hours each of those days. It's just a litlte time, and it's for her to have fun with the other kids more than anything. Also, I do plan to put her in regular school when she's older, and because of that I think experience in a classroom will help make Kindergarten better. If I were planning to homeschool (which I think is also a good choice) I would not put her in preschool, but I do think it can help with the transition to school if that's in the plans.

I think school - depending on the schools available to you - can be a good choice, depending on the child. I don't think it's a good fit for all children, but my older child (10 - almost 11) loves it and has been very happy. She loves being home as well, and she would get a lot out of homeschool, but again I think either choice would be very good for her.

I don't understand feeling negative about either choice. Both choices are good for most children (depending on the schools available) and if school starts to appear to not be right for one of mine, or if the schools change in a way that makes them no longer seem right, I'll happily homeschool them. It's good to have two good choices available. Not everyone does. Working moms and many single moms have only one of the good choices available, and moms in areas where the schools aren't good might really only have one good choice available as well.

Also, I think it can be a problem to assume what is best for someone else based on our own specific circumstances. If the schools where I live were not as good as they are, I might think it's crazy to put your kids in school when you could homeschool them. And if I didn't have good circumstances for homeschooling, I might think it was crazy to keep your kids out of school. But each of us is the best authority on our own circumstances and what our best choice is.

It would be nice if we could celebrate the choices we have, and be understanding of those who don't have the same choices available, or who have made a different choice.

Do 3-5 year old kids NEED preschool? No. Can it be nice for them? In a lot of cases, yes. Can it be helpful for them? Maybe, especially if they're be continuing on to public or private schools. Are there kids it might not be best for? Probably, especially depending on what preschool options there are in any given place. Is homeschooling also a good choice? Absolutely! Is it a better choice than preschool? That depends on the speific circumstances and child, but I think a lot of the time they're equally good choices, and some of the time homeschooling is a better choice. I'm sure there are cases where homeschooling is a worse choice, but it probably applies more to people who don't put this much thought into the choice.

That's actually why I chose a small amount of preschool - I think there's good to preschool, and there's also good to being home with me at least most of the time.
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#196 of 196 Old 12-14-2012, 10:10 AM
 
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Schooling is IMO someplace where there is, in many cases, more than one good choice. My younger one (close to 4) is in preschool two days a week for 3 hours each of those days. It's just a litlte time, and it's for her to have fun with the other kids more than anything. Also, I do plan to put her in regular school when she's older, and because of that I think experience in a classroom will help make Kindergarten better. If I were planning to homeschool (which I think is also a good choice) I would not put her in preschool, but I do think it can help with the transition to school if that's in the plans.
I think school - depending on the schools available to you - can be a good choice, depending on the child. I don't think it's a good fit for all children, but my older child (10 - almost 11) loves it and has been very happy. She loves being home as well, and she would get a lot out of homeschool, but again I think either choice would be very good for her.
I don't understand feeling negative about either choice. Both choices are good for most children (depending on the schools available) and if school starts to appear to not be right for one of mine, or if the schools change in a way that makes them no longer seem right, I'll happily homeschool them. It's good to have two good choices available. Not everyone does. Working moms and many single moms have only one of the good choices available, and moms in areas where the schools aren't good might really only have one good choice available as well.
Also, I think it can be a problem to assume what is best for someone else based on our own specific circumstances. If the schools where I live were not as good as they are, I might think it's crazy to put your kids in school when you could homeschool them. And if I didn't have good circumstances for homeschooling, I might think it was crazy to keep your kids out of school. But each of us is the best authority on our own circumstances and what our best choice is.
It would be nice if we could celebrate the choices we have, and be understanding of those who don't have the same choices available, or who have made a different choice.
Do 3-5 year old kids NEED preschool? No. Can it be nice for them? In a lot of cases, yes. Can it be helpful for them? Maybe, especially if they're be continuing on to public or private schools. Are there kids it might not be best for? Probably, especially depending on what preschool options there are in any given place. Is homeschooling also a good choice? Absolutely! Is it a better choice than preschool? That depends on the speific circumstances and child, but I think a lot of the time they're equally good choices, and some of the time homeschooling is a better choice. I'm sure there are cases where homeschooling is a worse choice, but it probably applies more to people who don't put this much thought into the choice.
That's actually why I chose a small amount of preschool - I think there's good to preschool, and there's also good to being home with me at least most of the time.


The part I bolded may be my favourite quote ever on MDC. Well said.


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