Mommies who met their current DH/Partner before they were divorced - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 10:50 AM
 
Oh the Irony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: grateful for truth
Posts: 3,448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Harley--that's not an affair. Once people are separated (truly separated and both parties are aware of it) then I wouldn't consider it an affair or having homewrecker status.You did no wrong there that I can see.

Go read at www.survivinginfidelity.com irene. Eye opening. I wouldn't tend to call the affair partner a homewrecker--i would put that more on the cheating spouse myself.

You do have some misconceptions about affairs though. They can happen in decent marriages.

Affairs are all about dishonesty and deception and are not based on reality.All the lies involved are a form of emotional abuse.People need to make choices and decisions and act on those honestly or else they will cause much pain. And complicate issues of custody and possible spousal support even more.
Oh the Irony is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#32 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 11:01 AM
 
Seasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Host city of Laundryfest 2009
Posts: 1,533
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh the Irony View Post
You do have some misconceptions about affairs though. They can happen in decent marriages.

Affairs are all about dishonesty and deception and are not based on reality.All the lies involved are a form of emotional abuse.
Thank you. One of the nasty lasting remnants of having an affair is that the innocent spouse forever gets to read on messageboards that gee, her marriage must have already been over, or not strong, for the cheater to have chosen an affair. Which disrespects, in fact ignores and blames her for, the victimization she endured. Staying within the UA: statements like

-"Why do people get upset about exes moving on?"
-"Can a third party really interfere between a solid marriage? I guess if you brainwashed someone you could do that." and
-"Is it really an affair if the marriage is long dead, but not quite legally over yet?"

are each an incorrect generalization and often, in the particular, a self-soothing justification ("it's ok for me to commit adultery because the marriage must be over").

The only thing you owe to others is to behave with integrity.
Seasons is offline  
#33 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 11:23 AM
 
Oh the Irony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: grateful for truth
Posts: 3,448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yup. And I cringe whenever I read "my partner would never cheat". I truly believed that myself. People change and shit happens. His affair had more to do with his need for ego stroking, feeling young again and not being able to identify and communicate reasonable needs to me. Our marriage needed some love and attention but it wasn't broken prior to all the deception.
Oh the Irony is offline  
#34 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 11:30 AM
 
NolaRiordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasons View Post
Finish your business with the spouse you promised your life with, first: get your own home, your own $upport, your custody plan for those kids. And respectfully and lovingly TELL your spouse, before you trade him in.
Exactly!

And that's pretty much what I told my now X when he tried to tell me he had done nothing wrong in taking up with his GF because our marriage had been over for a long time (even though we were living together, raising kids together, etc. etc.) And a little later when I thought about it I realized that the fact that I had to TELL him that meant he really wasn't the man I thought he was.
NolaRiordan is offline  
#35 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 11:52 AM
 
Krystal323's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In a world of dreams
Posts: 3,139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
quotes in no relevant order:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoLawyer View Post
(My ex-husband married the woman he moved in with right after he moved out of our house. We're all friendly, and our stepkids play together.)
this is really cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasons View Post
(Oh, and almost all of the affair participants say that the first marriage was "over even though we still live together," while we betrayed spouses often explain we thought our marriages were strong and there was no plan to separate. So somebody's not telling the truth...)
well everybody's gonna try to justify....that's only human--however...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aricha View Post
I don't think it is "not telling the truth" so much as two very different truths.
...this explains it better, i think. people can be having very different realities right alongside each other, even with communication lines open. i lived this way for years

Quote:
...Yet it apparently came as a huge shock to him that I had been unhappy, that I didn't want to be with him, that there were issues in our marriage so big they weren't going to change, etc... I had definitely not hidden these things from him.

He would tell you it was totally out of the blue, that we'd been happy, and that we both planned to stay together. I don't think he's lying, I just think that's what his reality was. It's just not the same as my reality.
: exactly. my ex says the same thing, and while i feel bad for him in some ways, in other ways it infuriates me that he can be that selective in his memory processing and get sympathy for being the victimized upstanding spouse who "never saw it coming".

If you're constantly plugging your ears and humming loudly to yourself, should you NOT be held accountable for missing important messages??

Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyhalfmoon View Post
Is it really an affair if the marriage is long dead, but not quite legally over yet?
see, this is where general beliefs about the legal institution of marriage come into play. my dad actually would not take my mother out on their first date until she'd physically shown him her signed divorce decree! me, on the other hand, i think the legal institution of marriage is just a governmental construct. the judge signing the divorce paper is not tantamount to a Divine act--instead it's just a legality in my book. however, people get really fired up about this, and so it depends largely on the opinion of individual people.

my ex and i didn't have one bit of a problem with both of us seeing other people before the paperwork was final. we were broke, the div took a long time, and by the time they'd signed the papers it was like "oh finally".

my dad, however, was completely beside himself that not only was i very involved w/someone else before the paperwork was done, but that my ex was too, and neither of us minded! oh the horror!

The timeline for the way things unfolded in my life certainly doesn't paint the prettiest picture of me However, no one truly knows what was going on except the people that were immediately involved--me and my ex. we got married under threat from my parents--i was pregnant, and young, and that's just what you do. i was clinically depressed for years, and tried insanely hard to hide it from the world. I guess i did such a good job in public that he never noticed--despite the fact that i was barely functional at home. he put on this great-dad face to the world, yet ignored the kids. He was content to mooch off my parents rather than manage the money he earned appropriately, and the real kicker was that my parents treated him like their long-lost son. They quit speaking to me for over a year when we split.

i could go on and on, but i'll quit. suffice it to say that there are infinite scenarios with infinite possible complications on this issue....it's nearly ALL grey area IMO... :

Freethinking Earth-mama of five. uc.jpg

Krystal323 is offline  
#36 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 11:59 AM
 
Just Elsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenirene View Post
i have always wondered about the idea of a 'homewrecker'. Is that possible? Can a third party really interfere between a solid marriage?

No. They can weasel their way into a marriage that is struggling and could be saved if they acted with a little class and found a playmate who was actually single. That a marriage is in trouble doesn't make it okay to intrude, it makes it that much more contemptible.
Just Elsa is offline  
#37 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
greenirene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasons View Post
Finish your business with the spouse you promised your life with, first: get your own home, your own $upport, your custody plan for those kids. And respectfully and lovingly TELL your spouse, before you trade him in.
Well I gave up nearly all of my financial independence in order to support my dh's career advancement - really curtailing my options in a severe way. I did tell my spouse I wanted to leave a long time ago and have lived separately while in the house while he also 'uses me' (if you want to think of it that way) for child care and housekeeping and meals (but resents that I don't take care of him emotionally and i'm sure sexually too). (It's funny how we place more value on the contributions of the man who brings in money - the wife is 'using him' if she lives with him and doesn't want to be there even though she's contributing just as much to the family while she cares for the children.)

I had a lot of career options that I gave up with my dh's promises of a happy family. Moved away from a very upwardly mobile job and he did some things to burn those bridges where I cannot return or use them for references. He's also gone out of his way to cut off all my social structure and networks so that I am as powerless as possible (this is typical of his controlling nature in everything.) I am physically isolated and don't have transportation. I am doing my best to figure out how to leave. My current dh has always worked against my plans to try to have my own financial security over the years.

Btw I am not physically seeing the other man. I do know that he loves me and I love him and that we are both serious lifetime committed types (i'm sure you don't believe me). It has been solidly certain for some time and I have known him in person for a long time - just cut off in person contact due to the legal risks. He doesn't have the money to get me out. I don't have the money. I'm working on my situation but it's incredibly slow. The legal twists are not what you would think and I can't up and leave.
greenirene is offline  
#38 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 12:19 PM
 
ElliesMomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal323 View Post
quotes in no relevant order:



this is really cool.



well everybody's gonna try to justify....that's only human--however...



...this explains it better, i think. people can be having very different realities right alongside each other, even with communication lines open. i lived this way for years



: exactly. my ex says the same thing, and while i feel bad for him in some ways, in other ways it infuriates me that he can be that selective in his memory processing and get sympathy for being the victimized upstanding spouse who "never saw it coming".

If you're constantly plugging your ears and humming loudly to yourself, should you NOT be held accountable for missing important messages??



see, this is where general beliefs about the legal institution of marriage come into play. my dad actually would not take my mother out on their first date until she'd physically shown him her signed divorce decree! me, on the other hand, i think the legal institution of marriage is just a governmental construct. the judge signing the divorce paper is not tantamount to a Divine act--instead it's just a legality in my book. however, people get really fired up about this, and so it depends largely on the opinion of individual people.

my ex and i didn't have one bit of a problem with both of us seeing other people before the paperwork was final. we were broke, the div took a long time, and by the time they'd signed the papers it was like "oh finally".

my dad, however, was completely beside himself that not only was i very involved w/someone else before the paperwork was done, but that my ex was too, and neither of us minded! oh the horror!

The timeline for the way things unfolded in my life certainly doesn't paint the prettiest picture of me However, no one truly knows what was going on except the people that were immediately involved--me and my ex. we got married under threat from my parents--i was pregnant, and young, and that's just what you do. i was clinically depressed for years, and tried insanely hard to hide it from the world. I guess i did such a good job in public that he never noticed--despite the fact that i was barely functional at home. he put on this great-dad face to the world, yet ignored the kids. He was content to mooch off my parents rather than manage the money he earned appropriately, and the real kicker was that my parents treated him like their long-lost son. They quit speaking to me for over a year when we split.

i could go on and on, but i'll quit. suffice it to say that there are infinite scenarios with infinite possible complications on this issue....it's nearly ALL grey area IMO... :
Krystal, everything you said is really true. i think we as a group could go on discussing this topic for days, and no one is ever going to believe in their bones what they didn't directly experience.

my DXH (we were young, didn't have kids and are still friends) wanted me to see other people while we were married b/c he didn't want to have sex anymore. seriously. i couldn't bring myself to doing that at age 29, so i divorced him. but in my depleted condition (emotionally abandoned, physically abandoned), i did find comfort with someone before we were officially paperwork signed divorced.

in the eyes of some people, i guess that might make me an "adulterer". (nevermind that it was XH's suggestion. and if you judge me for this, please ask yourself if *you* would have resigned yourself to a sexless marriage at age 29?) FWIW, i will add that we did do marriage counseling for a couple of years, too. and XH quit going to it. i couldn't make him go!

it's been more than 10 years since then for me, and one of the lessons i carry with me from the experience is that there are no blanket "rules" and you just never know what went on between two people in a marriage/divorce.

i would try not to judge either side. because you just. don't. know. and you probably never will.

the OP asked a pretty open ended question, and it sure has stimulated a lot of powerful response!

ElliesMomma is offline  
#39 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
greenirene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal323 View Post
: exactly. my ex says the same thing, and while i feel bad for him in some ways, in other ways it infuriates me that he can be that selective in his memory processing and get sympathy for being the victimized upstanding spouse who "never saw it coming".

If you're constantly plugging your ears and humming loudly to yourself, should you NOT be held accountable for missing important messages??
This is my situation. Thank god i have all the written communication where I told him what was wrong over the years. Very emotional and emphatic and spelled out what was happening and begging him to work on our marriage. I guess he just thought i was bluffing. Even now I've been very clear about some things just general human to human respect issues and he says he wants to reconcile and he's going 100 miles per hour in the opposite direction of what he clearly knows I want and am as a person. As always saying one thing and doing another. That's him for sure. He's a dizzying person to be in a relationship with.
greenirene is offline  
#40 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
greenirene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal323 View Post
me, on the other hand, i think the legal institution of marriage is just a governmental construct. the judge signing the divorce paper is not tantamount to a Divine act--instead it's just a legality in my book. however, people get really fired up about this, and so it depends largely on the opinion of individual people.
I totally agree with this. I think the moral issue here isn't the government contract. And it is up for debate likely for a lot of people when the spiritual marriage is over. I think often the marriage dies for the two people at different times and for different reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal323 View Post
i was clinically depressed for years, and tried insanely hard to hide it from the world. I guess i did such a good job in public that he never noticed--despite the fact that i was barely functional at home. he put on this great-dad face to the world, yet ignored the kids. He was content to mooch off my parents rather than manage the money he earned appropriately, and the real kicker was that my parents treated him like their long-lost son. They quit speaking to me for over a year when we split.
This is my life.
greenirene is offline  
#41 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
greenirene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I may be way out in left field here on this compared to a lot of people - but i'm a free thinker I guess. I guess it's because i was so unattached to my dh and he was always so into other women so much (porn, emotional affairs, obsessions, etc.). I guess for me the moment someone decides they don't want to be with me I have no more rights to them - government contracts be darned. I would not be personally offended if after that point they moved on into a new romantic relationship. I don't feel I have a 'right' personally to be offended by them finding happiness elsewhere. But I am probably very liberal on the 'ownership' aspects of marriage and relationships. Probably because I've lived in a very controlling relationship for a long time and have felt like property for so long it makes me sick. I don't want to do that to anyone else. And it's so eye opening to me how angry my dh has always gotten over the years about me wanting happiness in my life. He's never cared about me. Doesn't know how to. It's always always been all about him.
greenirene is offline  
#42 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 01:28 PM
 
Sunflower223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Haven't had time to read all the other posts. I scanned them however.

My story is the following:

My current husband and I met when ex dh and I were seperated. We were in the process of getting a divorce and he had moved in with the teenage girl he left me for so it wasn't really an issue. WE had both mutally decided the relationship was over and there was no chance of reconcilliation.

Our seperation began when I was 6 months pregnant. DD was 4 months old when I met current DH. Ex dh was broke and in school as was I. We could not afford a divorce but mentally we were divorced. A divorce paper is simply a lawyer's profit. I don't see that it amounts to a hill of beans personally, once both people are positive that a relationship can no long exist, they are divorced.

My current husband actually had to end up paying for my divorce from ex dh because he did not have a job and we wanted to get married ourselves. I was a sahm at the time, finishing college.

Resigned from teaching to be a doula and freelance writer.  run.gifMommy to blahblah.gif (06/05) and Peace.gif(05/07) and bouncy.gif(09/09) and fly-by-nursing2.gif(02/11)

Sunflower223 is offline  
#43 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 10:28 PM
 
catina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Greenirene,
I wouldn't feel guilty. Your situation sounds just awful. He doesn't have to "agree" to a divorce, does he? See a lawyer. I don't know what state you're in (as in, what state in the USA), but if you should be able to leave. Think what qualifications you have, what support (with or without the new guy) you have, and just go. . . especially if he seems violent.
I don't know if anything is really cut and dry. It would be nice if all parties agreed that their marriages were really over; it would be nice if peple didn't fall in love while married to other people; it would be nice if all timing was just right. But it doesn't work out that way.
And since some states (like NY) take so long to get a divorce in, and longer if, say, your boyfriend's X refuses for a over year to even sign the separation agreement detailing a very normal visitation --even giving her Xmas and Thanksgiving every year! (and it takes a full year from this signing before one can apply for divorce), then. . . especially as people get older, why wait?
I didn't enjoy the idea that my then boyfriend's technical-but-spearated-pending-this-imposed-waiting-period wife was still Mrs. K. . . even though they were most definitely not together. And it was weird to think of how to describe her to others (the soon-to-be-ex-wife of my boyfriend?).
I told my boyfriend that he could not propose to me until the divorce papers were in. And he did, a week later.
The weird thing was, she was still named Mrs. K. . . . and as I kept my name, there it was that she sounded like she was his wife, and that I wasn't. But as we didn't live in the same place, it was really just weird to me.
One could say that he should have waited until he was completely, utterly divorced before dating again, but. . . after so many years of intense unhappiness. . .
catina is offline  
#44 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 02:16 AM
 
straighthaircurly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Roseville, MN
Posts: 1,537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Current DH and I were both married when we met and started dating. No kids involved or it would have been very different. We both got divorced within a year of meeting. Then we waited about another year before moving in and then got engaged and eventually married.

Kris wife to Stew and mom to Joey 8/03 who cares for , 2 frogs and a worm
straighthaircurly is offline  
#45 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 02:09 PM
 
VocalMinority's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: surrounded by testosterone
Posts: 1,303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Greenirene:

I don't wish to upset you when you're obviously already going through a hard time, but I'm going to say what I really think because the choices you're making or considering making with your new love may make your life even harder.

As I said earlier, only you and your husband really know if you should feel guilty about finding someone new. If BOTH of you understand that you're only sharing a home for convenience and NEITHER of you expect commitment or monogamy from the other - and that was the case BEFORE you took up with the new guy - then it's not anybody's place to be judgmental, since your husband was not in the dark.

But you describe your husband as emotionally and potentially physically abusive, controlling, heartless, unfeeling, manipulative and - with every additional posting you give - less and less of a worthwhile person. (I'm not saying he IS that way. I don't know him. I'm just saying that's how you're making him out to be, so evidently that's how you think of him at this point.) Yet at some point, you wanted to marry and make a baby with him.

N-O-B-O-D-Y is at their most clear-headed and making their best decisions when they feel trapped in a loveless home. Nobody. The most natural thing in the world when you're in that situation is to see (or think you see) opportunities for love, happiness, and a better life elsewhere. I think that's especially true when you have young children and when you despair of being able to support yourself and them, if you left your current spouse. No matter how liberal we become as a society, there is something that feels "right", comforting and secure about having a partner and a safety net, when you're raising children. And if you hate the partner you have now, it's natural to wish for a different, better one.

You need some time and space for yourself, to make sure you've grown enough to choose someone better than your current spouse. I emphasize: HE was attractive to you once, too. And it is not an easy thing to train yourself to be attracted to healthier things. No matter how wonderful the new guy seems, you ARE relating to him in the shadows of your unhappy home, which cannot help but influence your impressions of things. I think there is no way for you to objectively analyze whether you're making an improvement - or jumping from one mess to another - while you're still in your miserable home.

Not to mention the fact that if this new guy IS your soul-mate, how fair is it to him, to get involved with you at a point when you seem to have no clue how you will extricate yourself from your current marriage? How long will he be satisfied dating you while you're going home to this jerk? Or are you looking to the new guy to figure out how to get you out of the marriage, or to pay for your divorce? You don't think that will change your relationship with him? I know this is easy for me to say - harder for you to do - but your energy right now really needs to be spent researching your options for divorce, custody, child support, work, childcare. Falling in love is heady, emotional, hormonal and intoxicating. It is D-I-S-T-R-A-C-T-I-N-G. Do what's going to create stability for your kids and give yourself the reward of romance after the work is done.

One woman in a house full of men:  my soul mate:    or... twin sons:(HS seniors) ... step-son:  (a sophomore) ... our little man:   (a first grader) ... and there is another female in the house, after all:  our
VocalMinority is offline  
#46 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
greenirene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
well... my current dh never was really that attractive to me. i married young for reasons i no longer agree with. i wanted the kids for me not because of him. i've known for about 3 years I wanted to be away from DH for sure. an accidental pregnancy prolonged my attempts to plan to get out (i always felt obligated to 'service' him as this was how i had been taught good wives behave but i never once enjoyed or wanted to). finances and lack of access to options are hindering me now.

I"ve been studying what it is I really want in life with great intensity for a year and a half now. I became crystal clear on a lot of very specific points before I thought about the new guy. I did lots of personality tests. read a lot of books. discovered a lot through my nighttime dreams and let my mind really embrace my own real personality and self. I had a lot of time to myself away from my dh due to his work schedule for years. I was on a warpath to discover myself. Yes the relationship with him has been yucky - pretty horrible since my first child was born. I did keep trying to work on it for quite a few years because i felt morally obligated to. But my self discovery path is what led me to realize we just don't fit. And that's when I quit trying to save something that was never there. I don't know how to explain it but I never felt connected to my current dh. Never really did 'love' him - i thought that love stuff was for other people and that he and i just weren't 'like' that. I married him young and figured out the day after the wedding that something was horribly wrong. But stuck with it for nearly a decade.

I don't physically see the other guy. I'm not 'dating' him. I've known him for a long time and had a solid friendship with him and knew everything about him before any admission of feelings for the other happened. As for him he'll be committed to me for life no matter what. If he has to wait years to see me again, he will. He spends all his energy trying to help me works as many hours as is superhumanly possible to try to get funds together for me. He would go to the moon and back for me.

I do have a clue how to extricate myself. It's money. It's very hard for me to come by due to my lack of access to transportation and business connections as well as some current legal issues, but the other guy is working on that for me. It's slow going. In the end we'll figure it out. He and I have each in our personal lives solved huge financial and business obstacles before. Together we're barely stoppable even though our reality for now is that we have to move this mountain a spoonful at a time until we find better income sources. The good thing for the new guy and I is that he and I are the hardest working people we've ever known besides his dad and my grandpa and we're unstoppably positive people and great at finding creative solutions in the face of all odds.
greenirene is offline  
#47 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 03:04 PM
 
Mountaingirl79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Asheville NC
Posts: 1,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Life isn't black and white...there is a big grey area in the middle. It's not " If you're still married, then you're married" , when there are other circumstances that the outside world isn't aware of. (And really, it's none of anyones damn business!)

For instance, in some states, like the one I divorced in...you have to live apart for an entire year before "they" would grant a divorce. Thats not counting the time it takes for the actual court process to go thru. It can literally take years and years for a divorce to become finalized. Thats a lot different than still living together as husband and wife and going off and getting a new love. A world of difference.

I met my now dh when I was legally separated from my xdh. It had been a couple of years since the start of the official separation, and my divorce was finalized the following year.

The year after that, I remarried. :-)

Mom to three boys 7/7/00 fencing.gif 11/20/02 and 10/29/2011 luxlove.gif

 

Writing at: http://paisleymama.blogspot.com/ and other places! 

 

 
 
 

Mountaingirl79 is offline  
#48 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 05:17 PM
 
vbactivist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aricha View Post
I don't think it is "not telling the truth" so much as two very different truths.

I came within a breath of leaving my ex twice, then actually did leave and came back... We fought about some really big issues that neither of us were willing to budge on. Then he left for a while and I finally realized I could make it on my own, and I told him I wanted to get divorced... Yet it apparently came as a huge shock to him that I had been unhappy, that I didn't want to be with him, that there were issues in our marriage so big they weren't going to change, etc... I had definitely not hidden these things from him.

He would tell you it was totally out of the blue, that we'd been happy, and that we both planned to stay together. I don't think he's lying, I just think that's what his reality was. It's just not the same as my reality.
Well, actually, the evidence (you still living together, still legally married) supports both his truth and reality. So, I guess I will echo some of the pp and say, move out, finalize your divorce - make it a reality and the truth, then get involved with a new partner. Otherwise, it is kind of slimy to one's partner (and children, too - it looks like everything is fine to them as well), to appear like you're married, while being in a realtionship on the side with someone else.
vbactivist is offline  
#49 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 05:40 PM
 
bigeyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: hawaii
Posts: 7,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyhalfmoon View Post
Is it really an affair if the marriage is long dead, but not quite legally over yet?

This is a sore spot for me- My Hubby was in the beginning of divorcing his Ex when my stepdaughter was born, and was seperated from his Ex for 11 months and working very hard on his divorce when he met me and it was a very nasty divorce (starting BEFORE he met me), and his Ex dragged it on for years (until my stepdaughter was 3 1/2), but somehow, I'm always considered the "Homewrecker". Whether I was in the picture or not, my Hubby was already divorcing, so I don't see how I should matter in the divorce equation?
It shouldn't, but people always want to assume the worst.

I didn't even start dating my dh until after his previous wife died. In fact, I dumped another guy I had been seeing for months when dh and I got together. He wasn't even on my radar before because he was just this nice married guy at work.

But of course people who knew us just assume we were having an affair before we started dating openly.

People are always looking for their own personal soap opera, imo.

for intuitive readings click here :
bigeyes is offline  
#50 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 07:42 PM
 
VocalMinority's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: surrounded by testosterone
Posts: 1,303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
But of course people who knew us just assume we were having an affair before we started dating openly.

People are always looking for their own personal soap opera, imo.
Amen to that!

One woman in a house full of men:  my soul mate:    or... twin sons:(HS seniors) ... step-son:  (a sophomore) ... our little man:   (a first grader) ... and there is another female in the house, after all:  our
VocalMinority is offline  
#51 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 08:33 PM
 
VocalMinority's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: surrounded by testosterone
Posts: 1,303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenirene View Post
I"ve been studying what it is I really want in life with great intensity for a year and a half now. I became crystal clear on a lot of very specific points before I thought about the new guy. I did lots of personality tests. read a lot of books. discovered a lot through my nighttime dreams and let my mind really embrace my own real personality and self...I was on a warpath to discover myself...As for him he'll be committed to me for life no matter what. If he has to wait years to see me again, he will. He spends all his energy trying to help me works as many hours as is superhumanly possible to try to get funds together for me. He would go to the moon and back for me...Together we're barely stoppable...he and I are the hardest working people we've ever known...and we're unstoppably positive people and great at finding creative solutions in the face of all odds.
Oh, Irene. First you needed advice, but now you have it all figured out?
It is so easy to pledge endless devotion to each other when:
A- You have a "mission" together, a battle to win, a seemingly insurmountable obstacle that you're determined to overcome; and when
B- You feel like Romeo and Juliet, longing for each other but kept apart by the cruel world.

Have you heard the saying, "After you rescue a damsel in distress, you just wind up with a distressed damsel,"? If you win your battle and wind up free to take your kids and live with or marry this guy, at that point your relationship with him will have a whole different basis and a lot less dramatic tension. Sometimes he will be the slob who won't put the toilet lid down and sometimes you will be the nag who won't let him eat red meat when he wants to (or whatever mundane lifestyle issues you develop - everyone has them). The point is, you may very well discover that you loved the longing and the promise of him more than you love the sometimes-grouchy, sometimes-smelly, sometimes-unreasonable real person that he is when he's not rescuing you. You can't "know" how that will go, because you've never yet carried on a relationship with him when you weren't in need of rescue.

And if your entire divorce is financed by him, both you and he will feel obligated to try to make things work, even if you find out you're not right for each other. Does that sound familiar? You say you already stayed with a complete asshole for a decade, from a sense of moral obligation. How long might you stay with a guy who may not be a complete asshole, but whom you discover you don't really love?

If you are a SAHM and your husband is employed, not only will he have partial or total responsibility for your legal fees if you file for divorce, but legally his income is "your" (both of your) income, so he will not be allowed to deny your basic material needs while the divorce is going on, just because he's mad at you. Moreover, you will get the house (apartment, whatever), because of the kids. Going to see a lawyer isn't a commitment. He/she will listen to you and advise what he/she can do for you and how you should proceed before you sign a contract. Your bill would only begin when you went back to the same atty. Attorneys take on women all the time who don't have independent income sources, because they know they can get money out of the husband. A friend or relative could drive you, or if absolutely necessary, your knight in shining armor could take you, during one of those long periods that you mentioned your husband is away, for work. It's not the best option, but if necessary you can take your kids to the atty. with you. Women do it all the time!

Your husband may not deserve a lot of sympathy, but he at least deserves to know what game he's in the middle of playing. You referred to the two of you "using" each other. If you BOTH know you're working toward a divorce, that's one thing. You're even. But if HE thinks both of you intend to stay in your miserable marriage indefinitely, but YOU have a secret benefactor storing away money for you, and you're only going to tell him your plans AFTER you have all your ducks in a row and are headed out the door, that's totally unfair. He needs a chance to save up for an attorney, too. And here's a benefit for you: if you tell him your plans and he gets so mad that he goes out and files for divorce tomorrow, that will GUARANTEE he pays 100% of your legal fees, if he's the petitioner and you're a SAHM. If you are the only one who knows what road you and your husband are really on, wouldn't that make you "controlling", like you complain that he is?

One woman in a house full of men:  my soul mate:    or... twin sons:(HS seniors) ... step-son:  (a sophomore) ... our little man:   (a first grader) ... and there is another female in the house, after all:  our
VocalMinority is offline  
#52 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
greenirene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I already have a lawyer retained as does my dh. He already filed for divorce once but withdrew it. Due to what I learned in the first time around process, I know a lot more about this now. What might seem like the 'right' thing to do isn't always legally in the best interests of the stable custody situation I am working toward for my children. If he files for divorce tomorrow I'm totally screwed as are my children. I've consulted 3 lawyers on this at this point.

As to the other guy I've known him way long enough to know the grouchy, unreasonable, slob, etc. side quite well. I'm very acquainted with his negatives. Sure he could change over the decades in ways I don't know right now. But I do know him well and have known him well for a long time and well outside the context of romance, etc. I have a lot of history with the other guy enough to know what I'm getting into. This isn't some silly girl thing just being caught up in some fairy tale. This is real life.

The advice I'm predominantly looking for is how to best handle and carry out what I know in within myself is the right path for me and for my children. Not whether or not I am a good determiner of what person works for me.
greenirene is offline  
#53 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 10:46 PM
 
Anglyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Then my dh must be the homewrecker, since I was technically married. I actually knew him for years, not well. He was my brothers best friend and I lived 200 miles away but of course we met a few times and I heard about stuff here and there that was going on with him. Never dreamed he'd be someone so important in my life. My xh and I had been seperated for over a year when we decided to try one more time for our ds's sake. Huge mistake and only made me, him and ds miserable and put us all through the seperation process again only this time it ended with physical violence. After six months me working three jobs to make ends meet (no financial help from the x) and my x doing stuff like showing up and placing himself on my couch and refusing to leave, I decided to move back home. I did. At that point neither xh nor I had filed for div or had any intention of as divorces cost money. Neither of us had the money to pay lawyers, we no real assests to fight over etc. and the only real reason I could think of to bother with it would be to remarry and I certianly had no plans of that! So yeah, when dh and I started dating, I was completely married, legally. I was not at all married in any real sense of the word and dh and I had both dated other people. Anyway, dh and I ended up living togather and when I got pregnant with dd was when I realized that being tied to another man, even in name only, was an insult to what dh and I had togather and that I wanted not even the apperance that dd might be xh's legally so thats when I filed for divorce. Things got held up, as they do and my divorce wasnt final until AFTER dd was born! That was six years ago and we have had two other children togather since then. I suppose by the technical letter of the law dh was an "affair" but really, thats ridiculous imo. My marriage to x was way over and the divorce was only finalizing details. I certainly dont think I should have passed up my soulmate when I finally found him due to a technicality!

On the issue of not seeing when things are wrong. I have a friend who, when she left her xh, he expressed total shock and dismay and stated that he hadnt known anything was wrong. When she pointed out that she had told him explicitly, "Im starting to hate you", his response was, "I didnt think you meant it". I mean, she didnt say it jokingly. Thats not to say there arent people who are blindsided, there are. I also knew a couple who I would have thought were the happiest most stable couple I knew. So did she, until she found out about his multiple affairs. Some people are good at pretending and lying. I should know. Between xh and dh I dated a married man who I had NO idea was married! Looking back, I guess I should have seen some of the signs but he was very convincing with his lies. He even told me all about his pshycho exwife who refused to accept the divorce and had even gone so far as to lie to his family saying she was pregnant when she wasnt and routinely stalked him and broke into his email etc. You see, he was setting the stage for when she found out about me and contacted me. Trouble was he messed up by disapearing off the radar the same day I got her email, making me start to wonder which one was the liar and so I called her, she gave me contact info for his ex (whom he was living with and she was pregnant with his child when he started dating the current wife) and I called her and she verified everything, with no stake in lying to me or to her. Point is, is ex told me she had NO idea anything was wrong til he showed up with a finance to move his stuff out days before thier child was born! It was awful and I felt awful, his wife was actually pregnant, like nine months so.

Anyway, thats all just to say, there are many diffrent situations as there are people, from lying cheaters and innocent spouses to psycho relationships to people who have truly moved on, but not all business is wrapped up. I know I originally planned no serious relationships til ds was grown. But who am I to argue when fate walks through the door?

~Me, mama to soapbox boy (1991), photo girl (1997), gadget girl (2003), jungle boy (2005), fan boy (2003) and twirly girl (2011). Twenty years of tree hugging, breastfeeding, cosleeping, unschooling, craziness
Anglyn is offline  
#54 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Anglyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenirene View Post
I already have a lawyer retained as does my dh. He already filed for divorce once but withdrew it. Due to what I learned in the first time around process, I know a lot more about this now. What might seem like the 'right' thing to do isn't always legally in the best interests of the stable custody situation I am working toward for my children. If he files for divorce tomorrow I'm totally screwed as are my children. I've consulted 3 lawyers on this at this point.

As to the other guy I've known him way long enough to know the grouchy, unreasonable, slob, etc. side quite well. I'm very acquainted with his negatives. Sure he could change over the decades in ways I don't know right now. But I do know him well and have known him well for a long time and well outside the context of romance, etc. I have a lot of history with the other guy enough to know what I'm getting into. This isn't some silly girl thing just being caught up in some fairy tale. This is real life.

The advice I'm predominantly looking for is how to best handle and carry out what I know in within myself is the right path for me and for my children. Not whether or not I am a good determiner of what person works for me.

I have a friend who was honest and up front with her abusive husband about wanting out, so he physically threw her out, kept her from her three year old son and is now, as the one with all the money and power, keeping her from her child legally. He has hacked into her email accounts to stay one step ahead of her in legal strategy. He wont allow her or anyone in her family to see the child. He beat the crap out of her when she was there.

There are times when you have to be sneaky, its called survival and I understand. My mother had to escape from my brothers father. He beat her black and blue and when she TOLD him she was leaving, her dad was coming to get her, he got out his service rifle and said, "if he walks through that door, hes a dead man". So she called and told him never mind, we made up. When she left, we had to sneak away with what fit in our car and leave the rest. He came after her and had to be physically deterred by my grandfather.

I would do whatever I had to do to protect myself and my children, no matter what and even if it was considered sneaky or underhanded. People who have not been in an abusive relatoinship dont understand that you are not dealing with a reasonable or rational person.

~Me, mama to soapbox boy (1991), photo girl (1997), gadget girl (2003), jungle boy (2005), fan boy (2003) and twirly girl (2011). Twenty years of tree hugging, breastfeeding, cosleeping, unschooling, craziness
Anglyn is offline  
#55 of 60 Old 05-24-2009, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
greenirene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anglyn View Post
I would do whatever I had to do to protect myself and my children, no matter what and even if it was considered sneaky or underhanded. People who have not been in an abusive relatoinship dont understand that you are not dealing with a reasonable or rational person.
This is my situation and I've tried a lot of routes to get out. Since I have no documented proof of all the horrid stuff that's gone on - i'm going to have to make plans that protect my kids in ways the laws won't because I never called the cops when i should have over the years and so it's only me that knows what he's capable of and why he should not be the primary custody person. I've read plenty in the single mom's forum about moms unable to protect their children from drunken exes, etc. It's not as cut and dry as you think. There are best case scenarios but they don't happen to everyone.

I need to have everything ready. And since the man has threatened me physically and also attempted to take the kids away once, he's lost the right to the 'do the right thing and spell all your plans out for him ahead of time' thing. Sorry - I'm looking out for me and my kids first. I hate to hurt his feelings but I know what he's like when he's angry. I'm setting up a stable life for my kids in a good place and this other person is gladly helping me and has spelled out for me that if i change my mind about him after it's all done, that's ok. He'll give me all his paychecks for as long as I need them and I can walk away. He just wants me to be happy in life and he loves my kids and that's all he cares about.
greenirene is offline  
#56 of 60 Old 05-24-2009, 02:51 PM
 
Krystal323's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In a world of dreams
Posts: 3,139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
{{{{hugs}}}}

sometimes, very occasionally, the world is telling you you're wrong and horrible, and you have to press on with what you know in your heart and mind is right. a road with no support from anyone is long and hard, but it's do-able. good luck

Freethinking Earth-mama of five. uc.jpg

Krystal323 is offline  
#57 of 60 Old 05-24-2009, 09:32 PM
 
sunflowers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I read the responses to this thread and I can't help but wonder about the idea that divorce is a simply a legality...

If that's the case, then a marriage itself is just a legality. You know this ("You" as in the general "you" - not the OP!) and still go on to marry again... Why? When your current marriage dies, you will again have to feed the lawyers to get that piece of paper.

Several posters have indicated they feel the way I describe. Why would you ever get married again?
sunflowers is offline  
#58 of 60 Old 05-24-2009, 10:36 PM
 
aricha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflowers View Post
Several posters have indicated they feel the way I describe. Why would you ever get married again?
That's a really good question, and one I thought a lot about between marriages...

I did feel that way about marriage, and many of my friends and family were surprised the first time I said I was getting married. In retrospect, I think I got married the first time because I thought it would make my boyfriend get serious about our relationship and act like a grown up. But I can't say I was more committed to the relationship because I had a legal document that said I was married... I was more committed because I had made a commitment to intertwine our lives... we owned a house, planned to have a future, were supposed to be each other's best friends and biggest supporters. My commitment to our marriage started to falter (not in terms of an affair, in terms of considering divorce) when he wasn't holding up what I saw as his end of the deal... he wasn't my partner, my supporter... we didn't have the same future in mind and weren't really walking down the same path anymore... and he certainly wasn't my best friend.

My divorce from him, to me, was basically a legally binding agreement for getting out of the various aspects of our life that had been entwined... the house, the stuff, the money, etc. And it cost about $200 and a do-it-yourself-divorce book, plus the willingness and sense of self-worth to stand up to him.

So then my current husband and I didn't intend to get married. We were absolutely committed to staying together, we just didn't see the point of getting married... it's not like it had been that hard to get unmarried before, so we didn't see that getting married was going to somehow make our relationship magically more solid or anything like that. And I don't know what changed... I was pregnant for the first time and was amazed at this incredible thing we had created together, and it somehow all seemed much bigger than just the two of us... and I decided I wanted to be married to him.

So I suppose the first time it was a legal marriage, and the second time it was a spiritual marriage... The first time for what I thought it would mean to the other person, the second time for something I discovered it meant to me.

Not real enlightening, perhaps... but the best I can explain it.

Parenting four little monkeys (11, 8, 6, and 4) with the love of my life. Making it up as I go.
aricha is offline  
#59 of 60 Old 05-25-2009, 01:07 AM
 
Anglyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflowers View Post
I read the responses to this thread and I can't help but wonder about the idea that divorce is a simply a legality...

If that's the case, then a marriage itself is just a legality. You know this ("You" as in the general "you" - not the OP!) and still go on to marry again... Why? When your current marriage dies, you will again have to feed the lawyers to get that piece of paper.

Several posters have indicated they feel the way I describe. Why would you ever get married again?
I didnt and I wont. I call dh my husband because he is, in every way that matters. We've been togather seven years, have three children togather, have bought a home togather and plan to spend our lives togather. I dont need the legality of a marriage liscense to tell me who I love or who Im committed to.

I have nothing at all against those who DO marry and understand thier reasons totally. But you asked and this is my honest answer. I had the legalilty of the marriage liscence twice now and it guaranted nothing.

Marriage is very easy to get into, incredibly hard to get out of. But it still doesnt stop anyone from walking away, it just draws the hurt and anger out longer, imho.

~Me, mama to soapbox boy (1991), photo girl (1997), gadget girl (2003), jungle boy (2005), fan boy (2003) and twirly girl (2011). Twenty years of tree hugging, breastfeeding, cosleeping, unschooling, craziness
Anglyn is offline  
#60 of 60 Old 06-02-2009, 11:34 AM
 
bellababy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: between palm beach and new york
Posts: 292
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think everyone's situation is so different, and there is a privacy that exists within a marriage/relationship that no one outside that relationship can truly understand. That does not absolve wrongs on the behalf of either party, whether they include cheating, lying, or treating your spouse poorly.

In my case, I was the one who started an 'emotional' relationship with another man while still married to my husband. Though our relationship had been suffering for a long time, the bottom kind of fell out all at once, and the feelings I had for this other person put the nail in the coffin for me.

I am not proud of my actions, and I know they have hurt my husband. The man I met and I stopped communication at one point so that we were both sure he was not the reason I was leaving my husband. If our relationship ended tomorrow, I would still divorce my husband.

I think every person is different. I don't believe you can put timelines and rules on people's lives and relationships following a breakup. For some reason, when two people are married as opposed to simply in a relationship, we place a different set of standards upon them.
bellababy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off