Custody Rights at School (corrected) - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 37 Old 02-16-2010, 01:17 PM
 
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For starters, it's not just Dads who have these issues - it is non-custodial parents. Male AND female.

Secondly, it really is rather foolish for ANY divorced parent to not have at least a copy (I always make sure I had a *certified* copy) of their custody/visitation orders in my glove compartment. Because you just never know. W/o a copy of the order, the authorities are going to err on the side of caution - as they should. I knew that if I were to have a problem, I would be able to show the cops, principal, school attorney, Joe Schmoe at the gas station *exactly* what the situation was. And I'm a custodial parent. Yes, the cops WILL look at the papers and even if they don't enforce the orders (they actually cannot normally do so unless the order states that they are to), they will include that information in the report.
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#32 of 37 Old 02-16-2010, 10:14 PM
 
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We've never supplied anyone with custody documentation, and neither has mom. Ther eis no reason for us to, and it is not information any of us feel other people need to have. It is an agreement between the parents and the court, and the enforcement of it is up to those people.

We have so many different copies that say so many different things, and separate agreements that have been made to change single sentences of the custody agreement... we could certainly carry around a copy of the document that says my husband has 52% custody, and there is nothing anywhere on it that says that isn't the most current agreement. Likewise, mom could show someone the one that says she has custody every Wednesday and Thursday, and there is nothing on there to indicate that is no longer the case. In my opinion, custody orders are only good if you are addressing custody in court, and they shouldn't be used for other things.

I agree that a parent who has a restraining order prohibitting the other parent from picking their child up needs to let the school/camp/doctor's office/sports coach, etc know that. And the school/camp/etc should ask for that request in writing along with any supporting documentation, and then should consult with their lawyer or local law enforcement to make a plan for what to do if that parent comes to pick up the child.

If a parent has not done so, the presumption should be that both parents should have access to their child. If the school doesn't know the parent who is picking up for the first time, they should check ID, as they would for anyone unknown picking up the child.

Third parties should not be in the habit of interpretting and enforcing custody agreements, IMO.

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#33 of 37 Old 02-21-2010, 08:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoLawyer View Post
Since you have joint legal custody, your ex should still have access to school records, (depending on the state) the right to attend school events such as conferences and plays regardless of whether it falls during "his time," and so forth, WITHOUT permission slips. That seems to be the area of contention in the OP--that fathers are often denied things they have the legal right to (in her case, that also includes the right to pick up the kids directly on his days) without specific authorization from the mom. Not that her husband tries to pick up the kids when it's not his time and gets rebuffed.
Our Court is exact opposite. I have had Clients not put the non-custodial parent down as an authorized person to pick the child up, or a step parent down as authorized. In Client's defense, non-custodial parent didn't live within a reasonable travel distance to get the child from school in an emergency (as in 1-2 hours away). The only people custodial parent had put down were people who could be there quickly to get child in case of an emergency.

I have had the Court Order the custodial parent put down both Bio Parent and Step Parent as an authorized person to pick the child up from school.
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#34 of 37 Old 02-22-2010, 01:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by khaoskat View Post
non-custodial parent didn't live within a reasonable travel distance to get the child from school in an emergency (as in 1-2 hours away). The only people custodial parent had put down were people who could be there quickly to get child in case of an emergency.
I always put my step-daughter's mom as an authorized person to pick my step-daughter up, even though she lives 3,000 miles away and it isn't her parenting time. It just feels like the right thing to do, even though there are virtually no circumstances in which she would be picking her daughter up, because even if a meteor struck both me and my husband, it would take her at least a day to travel here and one of the emergency contacts would have to pick her up in the meantime. But I feel like, on principle, it should be clear that she always is allowed access to her daughter. IF she misuses that by picking her up when it's not her parenting time, that's between my husband and her and the court if necessary.

I realize our situation is not the same as everyone's, but I think unless there is a restraining order or some other honest-to-goodness concern for a child's safety, both parents should always be authorized to have access to their children.

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#35 of 37 Old 02-22-2010, 10:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aricha View Post

I realize our situation is not the same as everyone's, but I think unless there is a restraining order or some other honest-to-goodness concern for a child's safety, both parents should always be authorized to have access to their children.
Ditto. My ex is always on the pick-up list although he is also not close enough to pick up in an emergency. In fact, he's number 2 on the list - I put myself first since the kids live with me and I can pick them up in case of an emergency. Alternates are a friend of ours and my parents.
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#36 of 37 Old 02-22-2010, 10:30 PM
 
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THIS! Unfortunately and sadly this is so true. I know several Dads this same type of scenario has happened to them. Cops will not enforce the custody papers. It's a civil case... so if you are dealing with an ex who wants to be spiteful, whatever, she is allowed to do so and keep alienating the child from Dad.

Many areas are still operating in the old backwards laws of Mom is CP, no questions asked... even if she doesn't always operate in the best interest of the child.

Things are much better between my DH and his ex now... but I can tell you how many times she hung DSD over his head like a pawn in the first year him and I were together... as well as threatening to take his name of the approved pick up list at DSD's school... and the cops he talked to about it told him straight out basically too bad too sad for you... take her to court.

It happens. It's crappy and disgusting... but it happens.
This has happened quite a few times to my husband. When his ex has denied his rightful visitation, just because she thought she'd miss her son too much that weekend, or because at the last minute they decided to have a birthday party for some random uncle that weekend, she refused to bring their son to the transfer location. My husband called the police, had all the court paperwork in the vehicle as proof, the police tried to call her, she wouldn't answer, and the police said, sorry, there's nothing we can do. Take her back to court or something.

My husband has issues dealing with the administrators at his son's school for years because they unfortunately would believe his ex's stories. Although he had a legal right to information about his son's education, he always had to convince the staff to release that information to him, repeatedly resubmit paperwork to the schools regarding his rights and they'd still give him a hard time. When that school staff would become familiar with the truth and my husband, she'd yank him out of that school and enroll him in another along with submitting her bullshit stories. They'd at first believe her, then come to realize her craziness, round and round in circles. So, three years ago, she took him out of public school and home schools him. There is no longer anyone else but her for him to get info about their son's schooling. The staff at the schools were automatically in favor of the CP/Mom until proven they were wrong, but at least, eventually, they'd begin to see the light and treat him fairly.

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#37 of 37 Old 02-23-2010, 11:14 AM
 
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In our case, YES Our kids are vax free, but knew my ex could be convinced to vax in a heartbeat. My current DH is a chiropractor and ExH was mad because DH signed Sage's physical paperwork for preschool (not a legal problem in our state- just saved me a trip across town) SO Ex got so mad, he wanted a clause addedd to the decree that states that Unless it is an extreme medical emergency, the children's Primary Care physician must always be Dr. So&So's Office. I agreed (no reason not to, I am the one who picked that Ped's office 8 years ago) and had a paragraph added that Vaccinations are NOT classified as medical emergencies and that neither parent had the right to have either of the children vaccinated, for any reason, without signed, notarized, consent, of both parents. It also states that if circumstances should change (health status, available vaccines, etc) no one has the right to decided upon or administer a new/changed vaccine, without both parents present and at the agreed upon Ped. office.

Pretty wordy, but I do not have to worry about ex trying to "sneak" vaccination. (And yes, we did sit with our Ped's office and discuss the H1N1 vaccine. They did not get it ) I sent- a copy of the front page of my divorce decree (lists my name, ex's name, and kids DOB's) along with a copy of the medical page (the vaccine things, and the statement that in the event that we disagree, the mother makes final medical decisions)- to the two county health departments near us. Ex was threatening to take them to one of the walk in clinics and have it given anyway since it only needed one parent signature. At first the medical director of the clinics was saying there was no way they could watch for 2 specific kids, how could they ever be expected to know which parents both agree and when there might be an issue going on. I agreed that he was right, they couldn't be expected to just know, but ~that in the case of my children~ I had provided names, SS#, DOB's, father's name, and copy of the court doc. that said MAY NOT VACCINATE~ So, yes, I expected them not to jab my kids! Since there were only 8 locations each day, and the same team of HD employees running the daily clinics, it should not be too difficult to have the registration person watch for their names

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoLawyer View Post
Hm...the doctor's office has never ever EVER required both parents' consent for anything. Yes, my SD's mom is supposed to get my husband's agreement for non-emergency care (beyond the day-to-day stuff like whether to give Tylenol for a fever) but the doctor's office, to my knowledge, has never asked. (Then again--why would they? Do doctor's offices routinely ask people, "are you divorced? is there a parenting agreement in place?")

To take this a step further...neither has the school (there was a vaccine clinic at school for H1N1--my SD had her's through the doctor so her mom declined, but my husband was never asked by the school). My husband's never been asked to sign a permission slip for anything, including for the testing for early kindergarten entry.

Does Claire's require both Mom and Dad's permission before letting a kid get her ears pierced? (I can answer that: No. My SD got hers pierced with her mom.) Does the DMV require two signatures for a driver's license? (That I don't know; I haven't looked at a driver application for a minor since I was 16.)

All of these are decisions that joint custody requires be made by both parents. But I don't think most third-parties even think to ask (especially if the one bringing the kid in is the mom). The parenting plan is between Mom and Dad and the court, not between Mom, Dad, the court, the doctor, the DMV, the piercing station at the mall, etc. I suppose there's an assumption that most of these things are worked out between the parents BEFORE they engage the third party (though schools, where pick-up is likely to occur, may be different).

Edit: I should add, my husband and his ex generally agree on the major life decisions. I could see where this would be a major problem if, say, one wanted to vax and the other didn't. I'm sure the non-vaxer would probably say something directly to the doctor (and school) so it would be on file.

My husband was also able to enroll his daughter in Sunday school without the church asking if he had the legal right to do so.
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