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#61 of 72 Old 02-20-2010, 05:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thyra View Post
JSMa - I'm going to respectfully agree with Ione. It is up to BOTH parents to fight for their children. One parent doesn't get off scott free just b/c the other moved away. She threatened child support actions, he should have beat her to the punch and petitioned for visitation (you say he wants children after all).
A few thing I think everyone should remember here:

1) She was cheating on him, and he knew it.
2) She moved away well prior to the birth of the child. There is nothing the potential biological Father can do until the child is born, with establishing paternity, support or visitation.
3) She may have put another man down on the original birth certificate as the bio father, like maybe the guy she is seeing now, or someone else, or even left it blank.
4) For him to be able to do anything to establish paternity, visitation or support he needs to know several things: a) Child's Name; b) Date of Birth; c) Biological Mothers name and address. Obviously he didn't know a or b here, as Mother failed to inform him, because she didn't want him to know about the baby. So, yes, he should have tried to do something , but Mother didn't give him the means to do it, so it is more her fault. The ONLY thing he could have done in advance was file with the State of PA (where I presuming the child was conceived since that is where JSMA is from, and he is her friend) putative Father' registry.
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#62 of 72 Old 02-20-2010, 05:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bobandjess99 View Post
a father can sign up with the state to say that he believes he is/mnight be the father of a child, and when the child is born, they will do paternity/support/custody. He could have done that.
What you are referring to is the Putative Father Registery, and it is not used the way you are describing it. You file paperwork with the registery, then if someone tries to put the child up for adoption or go after support for the baby or obtains financial assistance from the State (WIC, Medicaid/Medicare, Food Stamps, etc), the putative father registery is searched for any potential father's of the child. Then they are eliminated one by one, through genetic testing.
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#63 of 72 Old 02-20-2010, 05:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by laohaire View Post
If it is true that a man cannot request a paternity test - that is messed up beyond belief. If true.
A potential Father CAN request a paternity test. But prior to doing so the child has to be born, in general (there are some circumstances but they are the exception). Again, in general, he would have to know the Date of Birth, Place of Birth (ie State/City), and Child's Name (sometimes you can do Baby Doe, but not always).
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#64 of 72 Old 02-20-2010, 05:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sweetmama26 View Post
Uh he could have gone into any court and requested Paternity testing, on the grounds of wanting to develop a relationship with his child, I doubt a court would tell him no. His lawyer gave him bad advice.
Not so, under the UCCJEA (Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act), you have to file in the child's home state. So, for a child who is less than 6 months of age (or as in this case, at the time of birth or shortly thereafter), in the State the child was born in. Again, you have to know where the person was living and where the child was born. You cannot just walk into any Court in any State and make the request. There are laws/rules/regulations regarding Jurisdiction over Subject Matter and over the Person's involved. And a Court has to have both Jurisdiction over the Subject Matter and Jurisdiction over the Parties involved (in this case, Mother, Father AND Child).

Which maybe why MI, even though they have appear from the posts to have jurisdiction over the subject matter (Custody, Visitation and Support) and they appear to have Jurisdiction over Two of the Parties (Mother and Child) may not have Jurisdiction over Father.

an Example...years ago I did a custody/divorce action. The Court ruled it did not have Jurisdiction over the Father for purposes of Issuance of Service of Process, because he didn't have enough connection to the State of Ohio for it to happen - even though he and his wife and child visited Ohio on a Regular basis and registered cars in the State of Ohio. My client's case was dismissed for Lack of Jurisdiction over Father.
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#65 of 72 Old 02-21-2010, 02:21 AM
 
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I'm not going to even bother arguing about something I have no clue in a matter on, you live in the states I do not, I live in Canada and I know in my country at least, a father can walk into any court room in ANY jurisdiction and say I have a potential child in such and such a jurisdiction and the mother's name is this, I believe the child was born in this month in this year. And the judge reviews it and allows it usually. Too bad the states aren't like that.

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#66 of 72 Old 02-21-2010, 08:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sweetmama26 View Post
I'm not going to even bother arguing about something I have no clue in a matter on, you live in the states I do not, I live in Canada and I know in my country at least, a father can walk into any court room in ANY jurisdiction and say I have a potential child in such and such a jurisdiction and the mother's name is this, I believe the child was born in this month in this year. And the judge reviews it and allows it usually. Too bad the states aren't like that.
And it gets even better. To enforce a child support order from say the State of Ohio, against a parent in the State of Washington, you first have to get the State of Washington to recognize it as a valid Court Order.

It is because of how our Judicial and Legislative system works. Yes, we have the Federal, but they cannot make laws that unreasonably affect States. States have the option to enact Federal Legislation, for instance the UCCJEA I mentioned above.

Each State has to enact it, or a variation of it, for it to be valid in the individual States. But the Federal Government uses a big club called Financial Assistance over State heads to get them to enact it. If they do not, they wont get any of the Money that has been attached to it, for various projects (even things like highways and health coverage).

If the custodial parent moves and the non-custodial parent moves out of the State the original parenting/visitation and support order were given in, the new home state of the child has the right to accept or refuse to accept jurisdiction over the Order/Decree, so the parents could have to go back to the State they moved from to get different orders put into place.

Not sure how it works in Canada, but in the US an attorney is only licensed to practice law in the State(s) they have passed the bar in (or who have been accepted for admission w/o testing - and each State sets their own criteria for admission w/ and w/o testing). What we call a Federal License, only allows you to practice in the Federal Court in your District, so I can only practice in Southern District of Ohio. I have to be accepted into any other District, including the Northern District of Ohio. Then, if I want to practice before the Supreme Court of the US, it is a totally different admission process. But, I can practice in any Court that is administered by the State of Ohio, be it municipal, County, mayor, Appeals, or Ohio Supreme Court.

So, even though I have passed the bar, I can only give advice to someone in Ohio, otherwise I can get hit with illegally practicing Law in another State, which is why PL and I both put down that we are not giving legal advice to anyone when we post messages on things like this.
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#67 of 72 Old 02-22-2010, 12:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Marsupialmom View Post
Some states it is hard for a dad to get a paternity test unless the mother (or state) ask for it. In the states that do allow it, there is not much education that a possible dad can request DNA.
This.

What a terrible situation all around. Been on a similar side of your friend's fence, and still dealing with the repercussions. Mistakes by dad that are inexcusable, but also dealing with a mom that lied about BC, refused to agree to a paternity test for ludicrous reasons, talked mad, non-stop trash about HIM being a deadbeat, rarely answered the phone when he called to see babe (there was even one time when he was home, surfing with a friend, they got to talking about the situation and DH tried explaining to the friend how he tries to see babe, but X wouldn't answer the phone, and to prove his point, had the friend call X, who answered the phone. As SOON as friend got off the phone, DH called. No answer. The friend never gave him grief about it again)... and to this day it's still a jumbled, manipulative mess. I've so much to say about it but I know I'm being watched but Jsma, I really do understand your friend's frustration, even though I agree that he's got his own piece of personal blame for it having gone this long without being addressed, and I understand and empathize with your fury, down to the last drop.

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Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
He had consulted a lawyer at that time, and the lawyer counsled him to wait for her to initiate the paternity test. He was told the same thing that he could not be the one to request it... that his ex would have to do so when she initiated the proceedings for support.
You know, back before I started going through all of this stuff, when my DH (then not even yet BF) told me the same thing, I thought he was a raging d-bag lying... you get the point. I couldn't believe my little ears. But since that day, after a LOT of research and reading and hearing others' stories, I have heard from more and more fathers that they too went to the courts for help only to be told that THEY can't initiate paternity. Mom has to, and if she doesn't want to, then Daddy's up a creek without a paddle. *shakes head* It makes me sad that my DH and so many other dads who aren't versed in family law go to the ONE place where justice is supposed to be blind and they can hope to find help, only to be turned away on a farce like that. I hate it.
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#68 of 72 Old 02-22-2010, 04:31 PM
 
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I hate it, too, even though I'm on the totally opposite side of the debate (over whether men who impregnate single women should get any automatic rights/responsibilities assigned to them on the basis of biology). I mean, either the a baby is "entitled" to two legal parents in every case, or a baby is not. It certainly shouldn't be the mother's choice to either deny or enforce fatherhood ex post facto. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

And as with so many things in family law, the only people who are protected by these kinds of policies are the total jerks - the kind of women who hide pregnancies/ deny paternity until they decide they are interested in getting support, the kind of men who threaten pregnant women to keep them from naming them as the father, etc. etc.
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#69 of 72 Old 02-22-2010, 04:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by khaoskat View Post
And it gets even better. To enforce a child support order from say the State of Ohio, against a parent in the State of Washington, you first have to get the State of Washington to recognize it as a valid Court Order.

It is because of how our Judicial and Legislative system works. Yes, we have the Federal, but they cannot make laws that unreasonably affect States. States have the option to enact Federal Legislation, for instance the UCCJEA I mentioned above.

Each State has to enact it, or a variation of it, for it to be valid in the individual States. But the Federal Government uses a big club called Financial Assistance over State heads to get them to enact it. If they do not, they wont get any of the Money that has been attached to it, for various projects (even things like highways and health coverage).

If the custodial parent moves and the non-custodial parent moves out of the State the original parenting/visitation and support order were given in, the new home state of the child has the right to accept or refuse to accept jurisdiction over the Order/Decree, so the parents could have to go back to the State they moved from to get different orders put into place.

Not sure how it works in Canada, but in the US an attorney is only licensed to practice law in the State(s) they have passed the bar in (or who have been accepted for admission w/o testing - and each State sets their own criteria for admission w/ and w/o testing). What we call a Federal License, only allows you to practice in the Federal Court in your District, so I can only practice in Southern District of Ohio. I have to be accepted into any other District, including the Northern District of Ohio. Then, if I want to practice before the Supreme Court of the US, it is a totally different admission process. But, I can practice in any Court that is administered by the State of Ohio, be it municipal, County, mayor, Appeals, or Ohio Supreme Court.

So, even though I have passed the bar, I can only give advice to someone in Ohio, otherwise I can get hit with illegally practicing Law in another State, which is why PL and I both put down that we are not giving legal advice to anyone when we post messages on things like this.
Here if you want to be an interjurisdictional lawyer you have to pass a special bar exam to be allowed to practice in all federal jurisdictions. Which is why I'm kind of laughing at my son's sperm donor for telling me he's going for full custody because he can't afford an interprovincial lawyer and he has to file in my jurisdiction. Sounds like a complete mess if you want to practice in different states.

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#70 of 72 Old 02-22-2010, 06:49 PM
 
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Interestingly, there is a thread over in Single Parenting by a woman in a similar situation to this. She is pregnant and needs to tell the father-to-be. She will want CS after the baby is born, and she does plan to tell the guy soon. She's getting a lot of advice from some to either not tell him at all or to wait until after the baby is born to let him know. I feel he has a right to know, but clearly there is a range of opinion on this one.

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#71 of 72 Old 02-22-2010, 09:37 PM
 
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(shudder) I wish I could get the Ghost of Christmas Future to visit that mama who posted in Single Parenting. Nobody should feel morally obliged to disclose an out-of-wedlock baby to a guy who has repeatedly threatened to kidnap his FIRST out-of-wedlock baby.
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#72 of 72 Old 02-23-2010, 12:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Smithie View Post
...either the a baby is "entitled" to two legal parents in every case, or a baby is not. It certainly shouldn't be the mother's choice to either deny or enforce fatherhood ex post facto. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.
So well put, Smithie!

I admire others who can be brief but clear, like that. (I'm generally incapable of it, myself!)

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