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#1 of 9 Old 06-05-2006, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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(FTR, I believe in God/dess, with a mix of beliefs sort of from lots of religions. I draw alot from Christianity, but alot from paganism too. )
I just got the kids from my ex, and we had a little thing happen. Ugghh. Riley had this little soap my mom gave him from our store. It is a bright blue soap on a ribbon from an angel mold, that was a Christmas ornament. Fairly innocous (sp?) and I, who am pretty sensitive to overbearingly religios crap, had no thoughts one way or the other about this soap ornament. It seriously never even dawned on me anything about it being a religios icon or anything. JUST a piece of soap that my son likes.
Well on friday the kids took it with them to their dads, they often take one toy or something to bring from home. This morning my ex comes up to me all pissed and said "don't send this crap over here ever again, I will not have it in my house!!!" I said... "Adam. It's a peice of soap." To which he and his gf got all pissy and bug eyed at me. So when I gave the soap back to the kids Addie says to me "We can't take that to Daddy's house, it's propaganda, and propaganda isn't allowed at daddys house. " I tried to talk to her a little bit, but she got really upset and was just adamant that her soap was propaganda. I asked her if she knew what propaganda was and she said "When someone tries to make someone else do something that is bad for them" and told me again that it's bad and not allowed at Daddy's house

So here is my problem. I agree with them that there is alot of religious propaganda, especially in our area. I agree that we should teach our kids to be wise and think through everything they hear, etc. But their is so much illogic thinking and intolerant hysteria that the kids are exposed to when they go over there, it's as bad in my mind as the fundies at some of the churches. I tried to talk to her a bit about logical thinking. That that soap is just soap, what it represents can be one thing to one person and one thing to another, that "people" COULD use religious icons as propaganda, but that doesn't make the icon itself evil. ETC. I think that she already was pretty talked out on the subject because she said "I learned enough about propaganda, Mom..." So I have dropped it for now, but I really want to know how to address this in the future. I wish that he could have just told her "I don't believe in Angels" or I believe this...." instead of handeling it this way. It's always like this though. I got on wikipedia and found lots of great info on what propaganda is, and isn't etc. But it's all a bit old for them. Any ideas on a simple, non threatening way to discuss this with them? Thankfully they still like their fave soap! (Not because it's an angel. I think you guys know me pretty well by now. I could care less if it has an angel or a star of david, or a spiral, or an om symbol, I just get fed up with people that think they are SO progressive and accepting and tolerant except when it comes to anything close to christianity.

I've cross posted this elsewhere.... I just thought I should post here as well!

Shelley, mom to dd 5/19/01, ds 9/06/02, and ds 4/01/07.  Lost babe 4/09

belly.gifDue 12/18/12!

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#2 of 9 Old 06-05-2006, 02:23 PM
 
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That bites - I'm sorry he made such a big deal about it!

I would just file the relationship between religion and propaganda, what propaganda is, etc. away as something interesting to discus in another context at another time. If you use the angel soap blow-out as a springboard for any kind of conversation at this point, they're going to feel caught in the middle, and it's going to remind them of what was clearly a pretty uncomfortable experience at their dad's. Some other time, in some other way - e.g. when there's an interesting, relevant news story worth discussing - you can come back round to the ideas involved.
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#3 of 9 Old 06-05-2006, 02:36 PM
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Im in a blended family - 3 step sons, 1 bio daughter and the one thing I have noticed about myself is a lot of the time I will be stressing over a situation long after the kids have already forgotten about it. I tend to be a fixer when I really should just give it and them to God, if I really trust him. kids are pretty resiliant, but I do hear you -what if it happens again? and the girlfriend sticking her nose in, Im sure that was annoying. Sometimes i think kids can see thru B.S. Maybe not at first, but they soon "see". If their dad is going to make big deals out of little things all the time that is going to get old and annoying. You just be the steadfast voice in their head that doesnt lose it, telling them how much you love them, telling them sometimes people have different beliefs, here is mine.... and you will and should find your own truth as you get older.

dont know if that helped? sorry
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#4 of 9 Old 06-05-2006, 03:26 PM
 
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We are Atheists, and bio has sent "jesus loves me" t shirts home with the kids, has told them that my husband, myself, and anyone else who does not believe in "their' god, and in "their" way will go to heck.


This is a "pick your battles" item for us, and we chose to pick this battle. We won. There is now a contempt of court charge against bio dad. Neither one of us are to be belittling the others religious beliefs. That is just good parenting, and I can not believe that it took a court order to get him to stop. (if it has stopped) Bio never went to church while we were married, and it is only sense being in a relationship with new wife that he has been born again, so he changed the rules on us, not us.


Something as innocent as an angel, my kids might have thought it was a fairy. It is all myths and propaganda. I am not sure how sensitive your ex is about stuff, but I suggest a calm and rational sit down. Also, respect his views in front of the kids, even if you laugh at them in private.

So while I 'preach' communication, I am not against pulling out the big guns of the attorneys. :

Good luck.
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#5 of 9 Old 06-05-2006, 03:33 PM
 
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I dont understand why ex got mad it not like child was trying force him to look or use the soap. It for her enjoyment, just explain why your ex is mad and try to keep such things away from him. But a question what would you or he do if your children decide to accept a certain way of thinking or religion.
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#6 of 9 Old 06-06-2006, 06:37 PM
 
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I wouldn't discuss it with them. It is over...they get it, it is propoganda. You agee that there is religous propoganda. You disagree if THIS is propoganda but dad already said it was so if you disagree you put them into the position of deciding if mom or dad is right.

Just drop it...there isn't a bigger message here to teach as far as I can see.

It is always best to avoid any issue that leaves you in a dad's opinion vs mom' s opinon place.

If you really must address the issue of propoganda then do so by talking about something totally different (not soap) and let them decide what to do with the info (don't connect it to the soap issue). Maybe discuss comercials as propoganda or the fish on some cars? I don't know but do it on an unrelated matter. Frankly I would drop it if it was me.

your ex is being a dink but it is hard when you have different religous beliefs. it feels like there is no give. We are in that situation and the hardest thing of all of step life has been dropping the rope on the god issue. It feels like you are failing your kid in a profound way but there is no way to say that mom is right about her god and you are right about your god...there is just the one god after all! So we just dropped the rope, when they ask we answer and we live our spiritual life in full view for all the kids to see but we don't press it on them at all and we never respond to any questions like "other parents says this" we just reply with "oh" or "how do you feel about that?"
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#7 of 9 Old 06-06-2006, 06:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boobybunny

This is a "pick your battles" item for us, and we chose to pick this battle. We won. There is now a contempt of court charge against bio dad. Neither one of us are to be belittling the others religious beliefs. That is just good parenting, and I can not believe that it took a court order to get him to stop. (if it has stopped) Bio never went to church while we were married, and it is only sense being in a relationship with new wife that he has been born again, so he changed the rules on us, not us.
we are in a similar position in that religion is adressed in the PP but new stepparent is different and pulling the other household a different way. We also tried to address it in court and while we got a "victory" we have not seen any change and it cost a lot of money and good will.
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#8 of 9 Old 06-10-2006, 10:56 AM
 
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Sounds to me like your son has the right idea holding onto a symbol of God's love. God will bless him for that.
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#9 of 9 Old 06-12-2006, 10:02 AM
 
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Wow. That's a tough situation for little one's. I don't know how old your dc's are though. We have similar problem's here. Difference is we are both Christian. He is Catholic and I am non-denominational. I have personal problems with the Catholic teachings. I was raised in a paraochial(sp) school and so my foundation, even though I can't spell , is deep. He is the physical custodian and always says that our daughter is "catholic". It makes me mad because people choose what they are, not their parents, imo. You can't make your child be something. Gosh. So when this subject is broached in court they say that they will not be getting into religion(i.e. our Judge is Catholic). Anyway, I don't make it a battle for my child. I think that all the talking your ex did was probably his point of view, but you have a right to share your point of view with your children as well. Hence, if you feel that angels are appropriate and acceptable "toys" then the ex needs to back off. Nothing like making a mountain out of a mole hill. If I were you I would simply tell the ex that while you share some of his points of view about religious propaganda, you will not be limiting your children's play things to exclude "angels" and that your children are independant thinkers and should be allowed to have an angel soap if they choose. I wonder if it was a "fairy" would he have the same problem? Anyway your children weren't receiving any pressure about the item from anyone but him and they will grow up to make their own choices about religion, God, and faith. Why is he so afraid of an angel? Angels are parts of other non Christian faiths, am I wrong?
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