In Court Constantly for Child Support - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 31 Old 08-31-2006, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am looking for some good advice!!!
My ex and I have been divorced for 6yrs. We have 3 children together, he sees 2 of them. He has gotten remarried to a woman with 3 children, and I now have a partner. He has the kids every other weekend and every other week in the summer.
He takes me to court almost every month for the past 3 years to get his support lowered or suspended. It has gotten to the point where the court does not want to see us. I have taken a lawyer with everytime and now she says there is nothing more we can do.
He is suppose to pay less then $100/month, he refuses to pay medical bills, got the court to take his paying medical insurance away. He also quit working so he had a lower income to show. I did get a work seek order hoping that would make him get a job, but of course the court will not enforce it. Because he quit his job he now gets food stamps, housing and free insurance that he puts our kids on for the summer.
I thank god do not need his money, but still fight it because I think it is legally unfair that he does not have to put forth any income to support our children. My partner and I basically pay for everything! He lets his support go into rears so it will just get taken out in his taxes.
I just do not know what I can do legally anymore. I mean he is a dead beat dad, but no one cares!!!!

Any advice would be great, I am up for anything. :
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#2 of 31 Old 08-31-2006, 04:03 PM
 
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Well the only other thing I know of is getting it enforced through the State Support Enforcement Office. There isn't much they can do if he's not working but at least they'll be the ones doing all the work and you won't have to keep going to court. I'm not exactly sure how they do it, but if you haven't tried getting it enforced by the State maybe think about it. The District Attorney does it, that's all I know.

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#3 of 31 Old 08-31-2006, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Child support actually wants to drop the support order because his income is 800/month. The district attorney will not do anything because his support is so low that it usually gets paid off at the end of the year!
I just really want him to pay for insurance, bills and support. Therefore; I can only do that in court. But now they refuse to see us...
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#4 of 31 Old 08-31-2006, 08:59 PM
 
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why did he quit? Why is he still not working? Why is he only seeing two of his three kids?
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#5 of 31 Old 09-01-2006, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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he quit because he did not want any of his money going to me for support. He only sees 2 because our oldest hates him and told him he never wants to go there again so I had him sign off on visitation. Granted he still has to pay support, but he will not sign off on the rest. I even told him I would give up support. It's all a control issue for him. The kids hate going there, but he told them he didnt care.
In my eyes he will never work and live off of the state. His wife even quit working and works for cash now as well.
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#6 of 31 Old 09-01-2006, 06:01 PM
 
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I have to say I have a hard time believing stories like this. Was he always such a man of low character? What posessed you to have three kids with him?!

My gut reaction to such stories is that he doesn't feel the need to fill you in on the whys and wherefores of his unemployement status nor his wife's so you are free to assume. In anger he might have said things like "I quit so you can't get any more money" but I just find it hard to belive that anyone would choose the kind of destitute life of welfare as some sort of "gotcha" for the ex.

even that story about guys who forgoe promotions just to avoid cs increases- I just don't buy it. Cs is ONLY 20% of salary so you still get 60% more! It just doesn't make sense in any rational cost benifit analysis. I have certainly seen and heard peopel say "hey it is more work, it messes up my home/life balance and hey it will all go to cs and taxes so why take the promotion" but that to me is really them making the call on other reasons...if they wanted the promotion they would take it despite taxes and cs increases.

I guess my advice for you would be to drop your rope. I don't see you "winning" because either he isn't able to get a job or he won't get a job and in any case he has no money. You are being driven nuts in court- your kids are being hurt by seeing this as mom vs dad. just let it go. Is it fair? no- but hey life isn't fair! Suck it up and drive on. What do you win for fighting? not much as far as I can see- sounds like you too are tired of the court thing and if he is destitute he really has no choice but to keep on taking you to court looking for relief.
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#7 of 31 Old 09-01-2006, 07:48 PM
 
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hhmmm.
WI law must be very different than IN law in these matters...Here, you can only go in for a CS modification *IF* the resulting change would be a difference at least 20% of the order (so, no going in for petty little $20-30 changes, etc) and there is a maximum of ...i believe once per year, but i'd have to double check that one..it might be twice....


Also, here you can NOT get support LOWERED..only raised..that is because, in the courts eyes, if you WERE makiing such and such money, you have to continue, or efind other employment with similar pay......that ios so, say, a doctor can';t quit his job making $200,000 per year, get a job at McD's, and then have his support lowered......he is required to continue making the amount he as when the original order was made......
*IF* he loses his job to a ligitimate layoff or downsize, and is unable to find similar paying work (and proof must be provided), then and only then, might a reduction be considered..(But, it is RARE...most guys end up taking on a 2nd or 3rd job in order to meet a CS obligation that was set when they used to be making a lot more money.......)

CPST
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#8 of 31 Old 09-01-2006, 07:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MommyMine
I have to say I have a hard time believing stories like this. Was he always such a man of low character? What posessed you to have three kids with him?!

...

even that story about guys who forgoe promotions just to avoid cs increases- I just don't buy it. Cs is ONLY 20% of salary so you still get 60% more! It just doesn't make sense in any rational cost benifit analysis. I have certainly seen and heard peopel say "hey it is more work, it messes up my home/life balance and hey it will all go to cs and taxes so why take the promotion" but that to me is really them making the call on other reasons...if they wanted the promotion they would take it despite taxes and cs increases.
....
Please don't bash the op. I have one child with my stbx and was he a person of low character...yes, but he was able to lie and hide it for awhile before I saw him for what he is.

And yes, this person who made promises, took vows, and fathered a child decided it didn't mean all that much because he wasn't happy. He doesn't see it as child support but money for me. He has said he doesn't want his extra job (coaching, 15K/year) because it would lower his obligation. Even if it's ONLY 20%, it's 20% he believes is his.
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#9 of 31 Old 09-01-2006, 07:59 PM
 
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oh and back to the op...I'm just starting the process so I don't have much advice to give. If it's that much stress and you don't need the money, then I would let it go for awhile...karma will bite him in the ass soon enough.

Also, you may want to try cross-posting this in single parenting.
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#10 of 31 Old 09-01-2006, 08:27 PM
 
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I say again- if he wanted the extra work for his reasons he would take it despite cs. He is saying he doesn't want it bad enough for his reasons to offset the cost of it.
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#11 of 31 Old 09-01-2006, 10:50 PM
 
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I have no good advice but I do want to give you a sympathatic hug.

My former spouse makes over 100K a year, and he is whining and smucking about the 1500 he will now have to pay, after dragging my booty back into court again and again.


Btw, he has asked for a "de novo" review of our entire divorce.
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#12 of 31 Old 09-02-2006, 05:17 AM
 
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Big hugs.
I think the key to this one is finding out why the court isn't enforcing the work seek order: like Mommymine says, I think he's being an irresponsible (cough)er by not paying and offering you no explanation. You NEED a new lawyer though, if she's letting this go.
I also believe in karma. He'll get his payback one day, particularly as at some point in the next 80 years his kids will find out and hate his guts for it. (Don't tell them yourself, btw.)

Helen mum to five and mistress of mess and mayhem, making merry and mischief til the sun goes down.
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#13 of 31 Old 09-06-2006, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I realize you may have a hard time believing that story but yes it is true. Was he always like that no. He was in the service and was hurt so he was discharged. After that he just hated all of his jobs so het quit. I already had 3 kids so it wasnt too easy to leave.

The reason he basically quit and refuses to work is he has had a hard time with that fact that I left him for another woman who pays for the children and loves them a lot.

This is thrown in his face by our children everytime they see him, which I am sure makes him angry. My new family does everything he has always wanted to....

His new wife is one of those who thinks the old wife and the kids shouldnt get any of his money. They are a real pair of lowlifes.....

I have tried everything you could possibly think of with court. My lawyer has basically come to the conclusion because WI child support isnt receiving all of the government funding that they will now just let the losers be losers....

I am just glad I can afford my family and then some and do not rely on him. He can continue to be a loser but I will continue to try to have him live up to all of his financial responsibilities....


Thanks flapjack... I actually have thought of getting a new lawyer, and I agree with the karma statement!!!! I have woman power and I will use it..haha
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#14 of 31 Old 09-06-2006, 05:59 PM
 
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in the end WImom3 you can't make him a better person. And at some point you have to ask yourself why you are doing this.

Is it right that he gets away with something and fails to support his kids? Of course it isn't. But it sounds like he has bigger issues and his failure to support his kids plays into his bigger issue of being unable/unwilling to work that preceeded his anger about cs or your divorce. In otherwords it sounds like he is a looser and this not paying cs is just another way you can see he is a looser.

So you got to ask yourself- is it worth this pain in your butt to get blood from a stone? If yes then keep on keeping on and plan to go back to court this often forever. If no then drop the rope and let him be a looser in his own quiet bit of looserville and you get on with your life.

I myself would choose the second becuase I have been to court enough to know that I hate it and would not want to be stuck in this limbo place you are and I think the pattern is clear enough that you can see it (from what you said) and he sounds like he is going to keep on being a looser.

If he pulls his head up at some point then you can go after him for cs then- heck go for back cs then !
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#15 of 31 Old 09-07-2006, 04:57 PM
 
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Wow Mommymine I wish we lived where you live. Here every time my DH gets a check they take 65% of it YES I said 65%:


Why not fight for sole custody or have your partner adopt your children and be done with this man.
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#16 of 31 Old 09-07-2006, 05:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MeganW
Wow Mommymine I wish we lived where you live. Here every time my DH gets a check they take 65% of it YES I said 65%:.
there has to be more to that story like 12 kids or he owes back support or they consider him voluntarily underemployed.
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#17 of 31 Old 09-07-2006, 05:48 PM
 
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I have to agree with MM (and I'm actually shocked she said that ) but , YES!!, sometimes it's just not worth the time & $$ and it's best to move on, be happy, and forget the loser.

That's a personal choice, though, so I can't say if that's the best option for YOU. It was the best choice *I* ever made, though, I can tell you that. So, my kids miss out on a couple hundred bucks every few months, but they get a mom who is more relaxed, less bitter, and way happier because she has a drama free relationship and doesn't have to revisit the issue of her loser ex every few months
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#18 of 31 Old 09-07-2006, 10:37 PM
 
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I think Mommymine is harsh... but I totally agree. There's no point in keeping yourself on the rack over this. It's sounds most healthy to just let it go. Whether he's got some physical disability, is deep into a clinical depression, or is just a shmuck, he's probably not that way just to keep money from you and the kids. And I doubt you or a court is going to alter it a bit - it sounds so painful to keep fighting over and getting no where. And if the money is trivial to your family... the principle way isn't worth it. You'll just make yourself sick.
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#19 of 31 Old 09-08-2006, 12:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MommyMine
there has to be more to that story like 12 kids or he owes back support or they consider him voluntarily underemployed.
our DD is his 4th they WOULD NOT reduce support due to an additional child and it took our attorney standing up for us for them to back down on his right to be voluntarily impoverished due to being primary caregiver to our dd. under md law she's entitled to a sahp for 2 years.
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#20 of 31 Old 09-08-2006, 11:31 AM
 
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I am a sahm and it sucks being a sahp with prior kids to support. But I can't have too much sympathy for your plight. I would say he is voluntarily unemployed and we knew in our house that it wasn't an option for dh to be the sahp since he had a prior cs obligation to fulfill.

We were though very impoverished for a long time due to cs- but that was our choice. We knew about it when we had kids.

Further I am not familiar with many states that REDUCE cs for future children- rather they slow the rate of increase for future kids.
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#21 of 31 Old 09-08-2006, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I really do understand it is best to let it go. I really do, but it is soooo hard when I know he is just doing this to make me angry. It at times seems just stupid that I even fight back in court, but I didnt have these children on my own and shouldnt have to be the only one supporting them. I would be happy if he just paid for insurance or something.. I think what bothers me the most is that the court isnt willing to charge him with contempt. He is court ordered to pay support, and to get a job....But again they do nothing. The state just does not enforce anything! The let him be on welfare, but tell me I cant get any sort of state help (not that I want to) because I make too much money.... The state is technically not suppose to be helping anyone who does not pay their child support...

So again as you can see it is all frustrating...I wish I could blink and be over the fighting for money.....It's just not that easy....
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#22 of 31 Old 09-08-2006, 05:27 PM
 
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So again as you can see it is all frustrating...I wish I could blink and be over the fighting for money.....It's just not that easy....
no it is not...and yes it is.

You just have to choose to stop letting it bug you and when it comes to your mind to be mad you drop it. Even say it out loud "nope, I am not going to let that looser make me mad anymore" and move on.

I had to learn to do that when I wanted to be angry that we couldn't pay bills and bm was using our cs to buy new appliances in her new house and I was struggling to make food for my babies. But you can't go there.

As a cp I am angry that my ex doesn't visit our child. But you really can't do anything to make the other person be better. But you can- you really can choose to stop letting it bother you.

It isn't any different than stopping any habit behavior. It is impossibly hard and totally easy to do. Just put down the cupcake and step back from the fridge (OK that one I can't do but I have learned how to stop obsessing and being angry about the ex-either ex!).
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#23 of 31 Old 09-08-2006, 07:29 PM
 
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MM - You make a lot of very good points. I totally understand the frustration with struggling to make ends meet and watching bm buy new things left and right...and you're right, at some point you gotta let it go. Luckily we've mostly arrived at that point. It is tough for DH every once in a while though when he hears about somewhere really fun (and totally out of our budget...even before DD was born) that bm got to take the girls to because of the monthly CS.

The state where DH and BM were divorced is one of the few in which CS is reduced basked on the number of children the non-custodial parent has exclusive of the custodial parent. Even if we were the custodial parents and bm had more children, she would be able to file to pay less support for the first children in order to accomodate her new child(ren). So, we're preparing to file, and bm knows that. As she said, since the oldest is now in public school, her daycare costs are cut in half, so costs will still be covered even when CS is reduced.

WHEW! Sorry, didn't mean to hijack!

WImom3, it's a shame your state isn't more proactive about dead-beat dads. In the state where CS was settled for DH and his x, if he had stopped making payments, or refused to pay, he would have been put in jail. Period. Dead-beat parents are taken very seriously here. If they're not paying, they go to prison. Not sure what that accomplishes, but at least it's a harsh reality for those who refuse to take care of their children.

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#24 of 31 Old 09-08-2006, 07:30 PM
 
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I agree let it go. We don't persue child support from the non-cust. parent because what a pain, and how much would we get anyway? If you don't need it, let it go. I also find it hard to believe that the only reason he's doing this is to anger you. If you said you'd never ask for child support would he go out and get a job? You will feel better to untangle youself. Let life/karma deal with him, not you.
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#25 of 31 Old 09-08-2006, 07:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WImom3
I really do understand it is best to let it go. I really do, but it is soooo hard when I know he is just doing this to make me angry. ...
So what he's really invested in is making you angry, and engaging you in conflict? I bet he'd be pretty bummed if you just wrote him off and got on with your life, hey? No more regular court 'dates' together - what would he do for kicks?

Seriously, it does sound very frustrating, but I agree with the others that if you're not getting anything out of it and don't expect to get anything out of it, bowing out of the conflict dynamic may be the best thing.
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#26 of 31 Old 09-08-2006, 11:56 PM
 
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You divorced yourself from the marriage when it became to toxic for you to live with. Divorce yourself from this toxic dynamic all over again. And it's probably going to be as hard to let go now as it was the first time, but you were strong enough then, and aware of what you really needed to do for you. I'm sure you're strong enough now. You have a lot of energy invested, just imagine where else you might invest it to better benefit. This man is still taking up so much of you, almost effortlessly on his part. Imagine being free of it, lol.
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#27 of 31 Old 09-11-2006, 06:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MommyMine
I am a sahm and it sucks being a sahp with prior kids to support. But I can't have too much sympathy for your plight. I would say he is voluntarily unemployed and we knew in our house that it wasn't an option for dh to be the sahp since he had a prior cs obligation to fulfill.

We were though very impoverished for a long time due to cs- but that was our choice. We knew about it when we had kids.

Further I am not familiar with many states that REDUCE cs for future children- rather they slow the rate of increase for future kids.
Dh's potential income would NEVER support the 3 of us. With or without the support arrangement.
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#28 of 31 Old 09-11-2006, 06:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MeganW
Dh's potential income would NEVER support the 3 of us. With or without the support arrangement.
I am sorry but not everyone can afford to have a sahp. Men who choose to stay home but have prior kids they are obligated to support must have wives (or someone) who are willing to cover the nut for them. Just like the cc company who won't waive my bills because I stay home-my dh has to cover that too.

Life isn't fair and we don't all get to do what we want. Sorry your life isn't turning out like you wish it would.
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#29 of 31 Old 09-11-2006, 06:51 PM
 
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I can understand both views. D-ex should help to support his children period. And yes I do believe that he could be doing this just to cause conflict with you. But is it really worth the aggravation. Remember you shorten your life when you allow stress to run it.
I would suggest taking a different avenue. Start with writing to your Senator. Find a group that is trying to fight for what you believe in. You may be out of luck with your case, but you might be able to help with someone else's. Help to change the laws in you state.
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#30 of 31 Old 09-13-2006, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have thought a lot about what you all have said... And while I was doing that I received a wonderful phone call !!! Also he decided to pay a small amount of support! (strange, but I'll take it)

I found out the state is taking him to court for a different reason. Of course this isnt related to my situation, but if they find him to be a liar, it will only help my case!

You were all right! I do need to just sit back, let life takes its course and karma will get him!

So I will wait on court, and just keep sending him the bills he is legally responsible for...
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