Uh oh... DSD moving out of town - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 35 Old 02-02-2007, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Biomom called DH yesterday to say that they are planning to move out of town... 5 hours away... this month!!!

This is breaking my heart. We currently have DSD about 10 nights per month. Biomom figures that one month in the summer will be adequate from now on. That would mean we go from having DSD 30% of the time to having her less than 10% of the time.

DH has no legal agreement of any sort with BM. He always just said he trusted her. He has paid child support consistently, at more than what is in the local guidelines. And he is on the birth certificate - DSD has his last name, but BM has told her she plans to change it when she marries her boyfriend! But I don't know if DH has a leg to stand on, legally speaking, in terms of going to court about this.

I'm wondering, for people who are in an out-of-town situation, what sort of arrangements do you have? I think we should have DSD for the whole summer and all her school holidays. That still adds up to less time than we have with her now.

Poor DH, I know he is really upset. He is meeting with BM on Sunday... Apparently she claims she is surprised that he isn't okay with this.

Also, how do we approach this with DSD? I don't want to pretend to be happy about it when we are not.

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#2 of 35 Old 02-02-2007, 04:29 PM
 
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You're in BC?

Yes, he absolutely has a 'leg' to stand on, from what you're describing. Go see a lawyer! He doesn't necessarily need to just take whatever she's offering.

Re the name change thing, my dh dealt with this at one point. She needs his permission or it's no go.

Did I mention to go see a lawyer?

If you're looking for a good one, rather than just cracking open the yellow pages, one way to look would be to see if any practicing family lawyers teach at the law school in Vancouver (if that's where you are), or who teaches the bar admission courses. That's often a good indicator of quality, which can be hard to find when you don't know where to look.
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#3 of 35 Old 02-02-2007, 04:46 PM
 
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I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but in the US (or at least in my state) both parents have to consent for one parent to move a child far away from the other parent. I would absolutely talk to a lawyer.

Also, I don't think that you have to "pretend to be happy" for dsd's sake. My grandmother moved my mom halfway across the country from her father when she was a little girl, and my mom thought that her father must not care about her all that much if he would allow that. She found out recently that he tried to fight it and lost (it was the 1960s), but it would have spared her a lot of hurt feelings to have known earlier. You can say that you are upset, will miss her, etc. without placing blame on her mother for moving her away. Good luck!

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#4 of 35 Old 02-02-2007, 05:21 PM
 
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Yes, I wouldn't drag your stepdaughter into the gory details, but I'd say that her mom has let you know about these plans, and that you'll have to see what you can work out around continuing to have meaningful time together, because that's really important to you.
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#5 of 35 Old 02-02-2007, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Mammastar, that's very good wording. Wow - I wish that kind of thing came to me easily but it doesn't, I guess I focus on the negative too much. I'm learning, though, slowly.

This is particularly upsetting as I feel like I've just started to really connect with DSD in the last month or so... I've been trying some of the Playful Parenting ideas and it has really worked - I was being too adversarial with her before and we were creating some bad patterns, and I was really excited about breaking out of them. I was actually feeling like she enjoyed our time together in the past couple of weeks.

I just keep thinking about her bedroom sitting empty for the next 4 months... :

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#6 of 35 Old 02-02-2007, 06:16 PM
 
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It bites that her mom is pulling this on you so quickly - I would suggest your husband not agree to anything on Sunday, so he can talk to a lawyer.

Courts have even prevented custodial parents from moving away with the child where it would interfere with access. They also have flipped custody. Not that either would necessarily happen in your case, but perhaps you could get an access order or agreement that's more meaningful, or an order against her moving while the details are hammered out?

We live on the other side of the country from my stepkids, and got an order for more than what your stepdaughter's mom is offering, with us having had less access than you before we moved.
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#7 of 35 Old 02-02-2007, 06:37 PM
 
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Yeah, one month a year isn't enough. My Dh has 2 weeks in the summer with his dd (the agreement set up when they lived in the same city, minus the every-other-weekend part). The kids are practically strangers to us now.
Dh should have gone to court to fight but has always feared it the girls would hate him for making their mom so sad and feared court could give him a worse deal that what he had. Like a pp, I think the girls took it as we don't care!
By the time we had any $ to think of going to court, the girls were already at the point that they didn't want to be away from their friends and church for the whole summer.

Yeah, here in the US I've known several moms that have been told by the court that they couldn't move with their child to a city 2hrs away.

By the time Dh realized this rule, his ex had already been out of state for 3yrs and he felt that would hurt his case for him to wait so long. He had a crapy lawyer that didn't set up the "what ifs"

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#8 of 35 Old 02-04-2007, 01:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pinksprklybarefoot View Post
I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but in the US (or at least in my state) both parents have to consent for one parent to move a child far away from the other parent. I would absolutely talk to a lawyer.
\!
Yep. And, plenty of people have their plans quickly changed when they realize the adult can move, but the child cannot. Again, as the pp, I am in US, not Canada, but a parent cannot just move away from an involved parent here. Even if you don't have a formal agreement, if there is a steady history of visitation, that should be enough. Our lawyer told us that many times, the custody is reversed if the parent moves, or at least that is was will happen, but the other parent often chooses not to move to avoid that.

CALL A LAWYER. I assume she waited till the last minute on purpose.

We are not allowed to move out of the county. Or, WE can, dss cannot, even though we have custody.
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#9 of 35 Old 02-04-2007, 03:22 PM
 
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See someone quick. She can not UP AND LEAVE without HIS PERMISSION. That is illegal in most states, look on line. I am in Colorado and I can not move more than 30 miles away without his permission. I would go and have something LEGALLY SETUP! Dont let her leave till you have something accomplished, otherwise it will be harder.

Hang in there.
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#10 of 35 Old 02-09-2007, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just a little update: DH is filing court papers today to try to stop the move. Failing that, we're asking for interim custody so that DSD can stay with us and finish the school year at her present school.

I get to serve biomom with the papers tonight... not really looking forward to that but it needs to be done asap and by somebody who knows who she is, other than DH, so... me.

We've discovered a plane ticket for DSD will cost over $450 (not the $200 that biomom told us) because as an unaccompanied minor she can't get the cheapest fares, and on top of that there is a fee of $75 each way. And even though spring break is next month, biomom says we won't get to see DSD in March because they can't afford it! I just don't get why she would think we would be okay with that. DH is so upset he actually cried - a first in our 4.5 years together...

Thanks for all the support.

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#11 of 35 Old 02-09-2007, 04:54 PM
 
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Good for you.

FYI, Air Canada is changing their unaccompanied minor policy effective April 1, so they can only go on direct flights. In our case, that's going to have a big impact, and we're hoping it won't screw up access, so heads up!

Unbelievable she'd think it was a-ok to just cut access like that, especially given his previous level of involvement. I hope you've got a lawyer?
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#12 of 35 Old 02-09-2007, 04:57 PM
 
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oh mama, I just want you to know that your story is on my mind. I'm sure it'll all turn out fine but until then (((hugs))) Please keep us updated. Your DSD is so lucky to have so many adults who love her!

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#13 of 35 Old 02-10-2007, 04:24 PM
 
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I was just about to say what everyone else has said - call a lawyer, get papers going which it sounds like you are doing.
There *is* a stipulation in the Family Court Act which your DH can go on, making it so she cannot leave the province, city, country unless both of you agree to it, and judging by the sounds of it, she won't be allowed to go.

Also about the name change thing, she cannot do it without your DH's consent. It is against the Family Court rules, and unless he signs his permission, there is no way she can have the name changed. Granted when that child is no longer a minor, the child can change their name. But being your DSD is still a minor, this won't happen.

Good luck with everything, and im sorry this person is like this toward you and your DH...
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#14 of 35 Old 02-10-2007, 11:42 PM
 
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Everyone has had great advice so far...
• No she can't change dsd's name w/o consent if your dh is on the birth certificate
• My Dh is a long distance non custodial parent- (long story) BUT get this in the system ASAP! Do not let her go with dd- there are residency issues if she leaves and establishes herself elsewhere and the cost becomes incredible to order her back ...sigh, we know
• Our legal arrangement is EO spring break, odd years a week including Christmas, even years a week including New Years and 6 weeks in the summer. We pay all transportation costs. In our case she'd let us see them more but the cost is prohibative and they are older and really don't wnat to come more- friends become so important, they actually only come for 3 weeks in the summer right now- by their choice

GL!
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#15 of 35 Old 02-11-2007, 12:01 AM
 
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How did serving the papers go? We are in Manitoba and when my ex and I split up he put an order in place that I couldn't leave the province. Not that I was planning this since my family is here. We live 2.5 hours away from my bonus dd and we pay all transportation cost but are going to court on Wed to either have her drive some of the way or have a order in place to not pay support.
I've been thinking of you and your family. I bet she was p.o'd when you served her!
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#16 of 35 Old 02-12-2007, 04:52 PM
 
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Oh this breaks my heart....don't give up.

The money you invest in the attorney now will be money well spent for all they years of heartache it can save in the future.

The court can order a number of things at her expense, even if the move is allowed.
She may decide that it is just too expensive to be flying DD back and forth and change her plans.

The time that is lost between a child and her father (and you) is something that can never be regained just because a (selfish) mother has a whim to move somewhere else. Who knows, the move may even be an attempt to reduce her father's influence on her - that would be shameful, but not unheard of.
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#17 of 35 Old 02-13-2007, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been thinking of you and your family. I bet she was p.o'd when you served her!
Um. Yep. I served her on Friday. The court hearing is next Wednesday. She has been calling DH non stop to yell at him. He finally hung up on her last night. This is SO stressful for him and he just doesn't know what will happen. He tends to believe the things that she says to him, such as:

-She is the primary caregiver so he has NO say in anything
-The judge will think he's being selfish, trying to take a child away from her mother
-He is lucky he gets to see his daughter at all
-He is not her guardian

You get the picture. She's begging him not to take this to court, saying it will only make things worse for him. Right, the court really takes a dim view of parents who want to be involved in their children's lives. She's now offering 19%. At least that's an improvement.

I'm really hoping we can stop this move. It's worrying because they decided to make this move at the drop of a hat, and they have no job to go to. Not sure how they intend to support two adults, an 8 year old and a baby...

DSD is (i hope) unaware of the court case - at least she hasn't said anything about it. However, she has been making a lot of comments about how much DH and I love her.

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#18 of 35 Old 02-13-2007, 08:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Laggie View Post

-She is the primary caregiver so he has NO say in anything
-The judge will think he's being selfish, trying to take a child away from her mother
-He is lucky he gets to see his daughter at all
-He is not her guardian
.
If all this was true, and she wasn't worried at all, why would she keep calling you??? Good luck on Wednesday and keep us posted.
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#19 of 35 Old 02-14-2007, 10:22 AM
 
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Sorry she's being a pain. I would just call screen for now and let it all go through the lawyers. Sounds like she's worried at losing the total control she's created for herself.

And it's wonderful your stepdaughter knows how much you and her dad love her!
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#20 of 35 Old 02-14-2007, 05:34 PM
 
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How did the hearing go? I'm thinking of you and your family today, mama.

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#21 of 35 Old 02-14-2007, 05:42 PM
 
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I usually fall firmly on the side of custodial mamas in these situations, but from what I can tell from your story, your dsd's mom is full of .

I'm Canadian - if he has had her 30% of the time, whether legally scripted or not, chances are very good this will continue. He has a very good chance of being able to stop the move, or in the alternative get interim custody of your dsd.

I had to sign an agreement not to move out of the county with my daughter, never mind 5 hours away - that is pretty standard around here (Ontario).

He also doesn't have to take the mama's calls. The point of a court process is to figure it out there, not in screaming matches on the telephone.

Sending good vibes...
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#22 of 35 Old 02-14-2007, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DSD gave me a new nickname yesterday... Pseudomom. I don't know where she comes up with stuff - I think that's pretty funny for an 8 year old. Guess I'll have to change my screen name... or maybe I should finally create a signature.


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#23 of 35 Old 02-14-2007, 10:08 PM
 
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Laggie
Looks like you stepped on biomama's toes and now she's worried. Don't worry even as biased as we have found Canadian courts they will surely slapped BM's hands and put her in her place. If she isn't moving for family or employment reasons she absolutely has no leg to stand on. Yes dad has the right to be part of the decisions! Just wondering isn't BM trying to take the kid away from dad and the interm order would only be for the child's best interest not to take the child away from the mom? Looks like she's a bit scared IMO and defensive as heck!
Good luck in court! don't let BM scare you into giving in to her! As far as telling sd anything, I'd wait and let sd take the lead if she says "mom said..." or starts the conversation I'd wait it out. But be prepared for the conversation and how you will react without trashing BM. I do feel bad for your sd as she is feeling BM's upset and possibly her wrath.
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#24 of 35 Old 02-21-2007, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Update: we lost. Biomom will be moving out of town with DSD this Friday.

The judge actually gave us less than what she was offering - she was offering 5 weeks in the summer, a weekend every month (or two weekends per month if we would pay for one) and xmas and spring breaks. She was offering to pay all travel expenses.

The judge ruled that DH has to pay half the expenses because he makes a lot more money that she does. He also ruled that we get 4 weeks in the summer, every SECOND long weekend (3 day statutory holiday weekend) and a week at xmas and spring break.

Court sucks.

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#25 of 35 Old 02-21-2007, 09:47 PM
 
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OMG I'm shocked. I'm so, so sorry. I'm sorry what I wrote may have given you false confidence also.
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#26 of 35 Old 02-21-2007, 09:49 PM
 
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I'm sorry, you must just be reeling. That sounds very difficult for all of you. I'm sure it will be tough on your stepdaughter to suddenly go to a new school and not see her dad so much.

Let me try to think of bright spots for you....hmmm...

You had mentioned that, although she was 'offering' to pay all expenses and to give certain access, she was then saying that you wouldn't actually get to see your stepdaughter at all of those times because she couldn't afford it, right? So maybe in a way this will still work out to be a bit more than you would have had her, if you had just relied on her mom's 'offer.' It will have the force of a court order, and, if your dh is paying half the expenses of the access, she won't be able to say "yes, you have access, but oops, I won't send her because it's expensive".

So far as not getting her every second weekend goes, that will be a huge adjustment, I'm sure. But if the move is going ahead anyway, flying every second weekend would have been pretty stressful and expensive for all, right?

Hugs to you all.
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#27 of 35 Old 02-21-2007, 10:15 PM
 
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I'm so sorry. It is kinda crazy how it is totally up to a judge. One judge feels one way, another feels another. Did you have a lawyer? Does he/she have any advice?
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#28 of 35 Old 02-22-2007, 11:18 AM
 
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so sorry to hear. I would have bet $ you would have won! My Dh would never take ex to court because he totally believes stuff like this would happen.

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#29 of 35 Old 02-22-2007, 02:50 PM
 
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I am sorry to hear what the dim witted judge ordered. I am actually sitting here in shock!!!!! Although at least now you have a court order and BM hopefully won't try and screw around any further. My heart is breaking for you and your DH I still can't believe the judge ordered that! I too would have put $ on your case to turn out better than this! Stories like yours makes me want to go and get my law degree to fight the injustices that dad have to deal with in the courts!
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#30 of 35 Old 02-22-2007, 03:32 PM
 
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I'm so sorry to hear this. Reading your story brought back lots of painful memories. We lost DSS to a move away several years ago and it was awful. She moved him two states away, a 2 hour plan trip or 18 hours in the car.

DH fought the move, and the court experience was horrid. Despite the fact that he had been an involved father all along (had his son 35-40% of the time, never late on one cs payment EVER, happily paid for extras at biomoms request), DSS is a biracial child with very serious (life threatening) special needs & developmental delays, the judge put the onus on DH to "prove that it would be detrimental to the child to be moved away from his father". WHAT????? The courts do not value fathers AT ALL and I think it's absolutely despicable.

But I do want to offer a bit of hope. Our biomom's big move didn't work out as well as she thought and 2 years after moving away, she moved back. And DSS is actually living with us now and he sees his mom 4 days a month (alternate weekends). In fact, we now totally have the upper hand because she does NOT want to go to court again. We live in CA, and once you are assigned a judge to your case, you always see that same judge. So the same judge who granted her move-away 5 years ago would not be happy to see her back in court, with her son living with his father, the same man she tried so hard to make look like an unimportant part of their son's life. Oh, and why did she move back? She met a man while she was her on visitation weekends here in the area (special needs child could not be put on flights alone - she or DH accompanied him on each visit) and they started dating, so she decided to move back. Yeaaaahhhhhhh. Real stable, lady. :

Anyway, you just never know what the future holds. I hope things get better for you all. In the meantime, hold strong and do your best to make the time you do have with DSD special.

Again, I'm so sorry.
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