So the Judge told him... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 23 Old 10-09-2007, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Last week I finally went to court because dd's father doesn't think he has to pay child support on time, or at all, for that matter. He told his woes to her saying he can't pay because of "unforseen" bills, had to borrow $ to get his house out of foreclosure (which he re-mortgaged & re-modeled for his new wife) blah, blah. She asked him if he had a job, he continued to lament about his bills. Finally she said "Mr. X, do you have a job & sleep in a house with a roof over your head?" He said he just barely has a roof over his head because he can't pay his "unforseen" bills. She says "Mr.X are you OUT ON THE STREET?". He finallly says "No" & she tells him there is no excuse & she wants him to "forsee" taking care of his child. I could not believe she actually said that! It was the first time in the 20 years that I have known this man that someone completely shut him down & he had no recourse. Then the judge orders for child support to be taken directly out of his paycheck through wage deduction.

Now, my question is - dd came home from visiting her father & said that he took her to look at a house upstate that he might buy. If he moves upstate he will obviously not keep the job that he has (he has had this job for over 15 years). If he quits this job what happens to the wage deduction?

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#2 of 23 Old 10-09-2007, 02:00 PM
 
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The courts see this all the time and see right through it

If he voluntarily quits his job the courts will still calculate child support based on if he was still working there ..

Example , a friend of mine,
her ex husband worked at boeing making 500,000 a year..
He quit his job
and got a job working at a car dealership making only 50,000 a year ..
+++He told her he won't have to pay the child support +++
!!!!!! HA HA !!!!!
The court still based the child support on the $500,000 a year salary because he voluntarily quit his job ...
and if he wasn't working they would still calculate the child support based on the is higher wages
All he did was screw himself ..... and if
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#3 of 23 Old 10-09-2007, 03:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by azfiresmbm View Post
Example , a friend of mine,
her ex husband worked at boeing making 500,000 a year..
He quit his job
and got a job working at a car dealership making only 50,000 a year ..
+++He told her he won't have to pay the child support +++
!!!!!! HA HA !!!!!
The court still based the child support on the $500,000 a year salary because he voluntarily quit his job ...
and if he wasn't working they would still calculate the child support based on the is higher wages
All he did was screw himself ..... and if
Wow... if that is true, his entire salary would probably be going to cs.

I know that courts do often look at "earning potential" if someone quits a job.

This may sound snarky, but I'm glad that he doesn't have the money to pay cs but has the money to buy another house.

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#4 of 23 Old 10-09-2007, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This may sound snarky, but I'm glad that he doesn't have the money to pay cs but has the money to buy another house.
My thoughts exactly. We are also going back to court in 2 weeks because I am also seeking a modification in child support because it hasn't been upped in 4 years. He did not bring a lawyer with him the first time & told the judge he wanted to adjourn so he could retain an attorney. She had to grant it. She set the adjournement date for October 23, at which time he inturrupted her & said "uh, the lawyer I'm looking to hire is free on November 3, November 5, or December 12." Then she looked at him like he was nuts & said you'll be here on the 23 because I'm making a judgement whether you're here or not. So he can obviously afford to pay an attorney a retainer, but not his child support.

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#5 of 23 Old 10-09-2007, 06:12 PM
 
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I think that azfiresmbm's friend is not the norm.


At least in AK, and WA, and OR, and WI:

child support is 20% of the CS payer's income.

child support amount can be modified if there has been a 15% increase or decrease in the CS payer's income,

CS modifications can only be requested once a year (whether requested by the CS payer or CS receiver), so as not to clog up the courts with a lot of CS changes.


ETA:
Congratulations OP on this necessary victory in court.

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#6 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Congratulations OP on this necessary victory in court.
Thanks for your responses mamas! I guess I'll find out exactly what's going to happen at the next court visit.

BTW, somebody said to me today "well your making more money now & you just recently got married so you probably won't get the modification" (Last year I fianlly graduated grad school after working 2 part time jobs & being a single mom. Now I have a full time job & got married in May) How does my salary affect my x-h's child support responsibilities? I did not work my butt off in school to work full time to lessen his support payment.

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#7 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 05:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by katybear mama View Post
How does my salary affect my x-h's child support responsibilities? I did not work my butt off in school to work full time to lessen his support payment.
It only changes his support (depending on the state) if he's got joint physical custody...in my state, for instance, if kids are with one parent less than 25% of overnights, the other parent's income doesn't matter. It's considered "full custody" and the visitation parent owes 17% (for one kid). However, if it's 30/70 or 50/50, then income does matter, and it's a complex formula.

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#8 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 05:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by katybear mama View Post
How does my salary affect my x-h's child support responsibilities?

It doesn't.



In Alaska, the only thing that reduces the CS is if the payer has the child 110 nights a year (over nights, not just days) [30/70 custody], and then the CS amount is reduced slightly, but not significantly.



The CS receiver's marital income or their own income has absolutely no bearing whatsoever in the amount the CS payer pays, which is 20% of gross income.





*in 50/50 custody no one pays CS.*

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#9 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm in NY & CS is calculated at 17%, I am the custodial parent, he has visitation for 2 hrs on Wednesdays & every other weekend. Thanks for setting my mind a little more at ease.

I am not counting on the CS modification, the real reason I took him to court was for the arrears & for the wage deduction so it gets paid on time. I know he is going to show up in court with his lawyer & all his paperwork about his supposed house foreclosure (I just found out his parents recently loaned him 12 thousand dollars to get it out of foreclosure) & all the bills he cannot afford to pay.

My dd told me, when she came home from him this weekend, that they went to Conn. to look at a house that he & his wife might buy. So he got his parents to pay so he can keep his house so he can sell it & move out of state. Nice that my divorce agreement says that I have to live within 30 miles of him but he can decide to pick up & move wherever he wants & assume that he can still see dd every other weekend. Granted, Conn isn' t that far away from Long Island but I am not comfortable with her being that far away from me. And what about his job? This is why I think he plans on quitting, or that maybe his company is offering buy-outs (which they have done in the past & do around contract negotiating time).

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#10 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 06:23 PM
 
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Wow, you and I are about as far away from each other as we could be and still be in the US.

(not counting HI, of course, or Florida).

anyway, we're far apart, that's all I'm saying.

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#11 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 06:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Abi's Mom View Post
I think that azfiresmbm's friend is not the norm.


At least in AK, and WA, and OR, and WI:

child support is 20% of the CS payer's income.

child support amount can be modified if there has been a 15% increase or decrease in the CS payer's income,

CS modifications can only be requested once a year (whether requested by the CS payer or CS receiver), so as not to clog up the courts with a lot of CS changes.


ETA:
Congratulations OP on this necessary victory in court.
NOT in OR... if CS was 20% of his income, I would be getting 2K a month, and it is based on his base income, not his actual income with OT. So my ex makes well over 140K a year, but pays only 1180 a month in CS.
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#12 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 07:04 PM
 
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Huh, well, my brother lives in Oregon and he pays 20% of his gross income to his 14 year old son.

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#13 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Abi's mom, wow, we are far apart. I've never been to Alaska, but from what I've seen it looks beautiful. Actually, right now I'd love to move as far away from here as I could - I guess that would be, hmmm...Alaska!

BoobyBunny, here too CS is calculated by base income & not any overtime. I know because my x-h makes a good deal of $ in overtime.

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#14 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 08:34 PM
 
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Isn't this all so stressful! In FL there is a formula they use based on income etc. Maybe do a search for your states child support guidelines. I know here in FL its all online, so when DH and his ex were setting up there chlidsupport, they both new what to expect.

again, I feel your pain, as my DHs ex goes back and forth with him all the time, he pays as expected, and gives his DD anything needed, but his Ex is always hounding him for more (yet there is ALWAYS enough for her bar tabs onthe weekends and for her and my step daughter to have the latest coach bag and hollister outfit) grrr

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#15 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 10:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by katybear mama View Post
BoobyBunny, here too CS is calculated by base income & not any overtime. I know because my x-h makes a good deal of $ in overtime.
That whole base income thing boggles me.

Here, you bring in last year's tax return which proves EXACTLY what the gross income is, no guessing, no approximating, no leaving out overtime. It's based on the facts only, actual income.

I just think it's odd that some states don't require ACTUAL income to determine the amount of child support. That just seems wrong.

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#16 of 23 Old 10-10-2007, 11:58 PM
 
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It doesn't.

*in 50/50 custody no one pays CS.*
Not in MN! We have 50/50 and pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $350.

Also, with regards to overtime, if the overtime is something that is regular, they will count it. If it is temporary or occasional, they will not.

It amazes me how different the laws are in various states!

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#17 of 23 Old 10-11-2007, 12:17 AM
 
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in most states 50/50 does not mean you do not have to pay child support ..

It's based on income of both parties, number of dependents both parties have, who pays for health insurance , etc ..

Some State Courts web sites for each state has an custody support worksheet , you can fill it out without submitting anything and get an idea of the support ..

When we calculated ours with 50/50 my step-sons mother would owe us money ...
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#18 of 23 Old 10-11-2007, 12:19 AM
 
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azfire
Do you have a link to the website that lists the different rules for each state?

Or does each state have a completely different website.

It would be interesting if they were all listed on one page, specifically detailing their differences and similarities.

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#19 of 23 Old 10-11-2007, 12:23 AM
 
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It's based on income of both parties, number of dependents both parties have, who pays for health insurance , etc ..
That part isn't true for Alaska.
They'd never consider the CS receiver's income, it doesn't matter at all how many kids the payer has, and health insurance (who pays or doesn't) has no bearing on determining CS.

Maybe Alaska is weird.

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#20 of 23 Old 10-11-2007, 01:31 AM
 
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I googled Alaska and this is what is on your court web-site

Rule 90.3. Child Support Awards.

(a) Guidelines--Primary Physical Custody. A child support award in a case in which one parent is awarded primary physical custody as defined by paragraph (f) will be calculated as an amount equal to the adjusted annual income of the non-custodial parent multiplied by a percentage specified in subparagraph (a)(2).

(1) Adjusted annual income as used in this rule means the parent's total income from all sources minus:

(A) mandatory deductions such as:

(i) federal, state, and local income tax,

(ii) Social Security tax or the equivalent contribution to an alternate plan established by a public employer, and self-employment tax,

(iii) Medicare tax,

(iv) mandatory union dues,

(v) mandatory contributions to a retirement or pension plan;
(B) voluntary contributions to a retirement or pension plan or account in which the earnings are tax-free or tax-deferred, except that the total amount of these voluntary contributions plus any mandatory contributions under item (a)(1)(A)(v) above may not exceed 7.5% of the parent's gross wages and self-employment income;

(C) child support and alimony payments arising from prior relationships which are required by other court or administrative proceedings and actually paid;

(D) child support for children from prior relationships living with the parent, calculated by using the formula provided by this rule; and

(E) work-related child care expenses for the children who are the subject of the child support order.

(2) The percentage by which the non-custodial parent's adjusted income must be multiplied in order to calculate the child support award is:

(A) 20% (.20) for one child;

(B) 27% (.27) for two children;

(C) 33% (.33) for three children; and

(D) an extra 3% (.03) for each additional child.

(3) The court may allow the obligor parent to reduce child support payments by up to 75% for any period in which the obligor parent has extended visitation of over 27 consecutive days. The order must specify the amount of the reduction which is allowable if the extended visitation is exercised.

(4) Potential Income. The court may calculate child support based on a determination of the potential income of a parent who voluntarily and unreasonably is unemployed or underemployed. A determination of potential income may not be made for a parent who is physically or mentally incapacitated, or who is caring for a child under two years of age to whom the parents owe a joint legal responsibility. Potential income will be based upon the parent's work history, qualifications, and job opportunities. The court also may impute potential income for non-income or low income producing assets.

(b) Shared, Divided, and Hybrid Physical Custody.

(1) Shared Physical Custody. A child support award in a case in which the parents are awarded shared physical custody as defined by paragraph (f) will be calculated by:

(A) Calculating the annual amount each parent would pay to the other parent under paragraph (a) assuming the other parent had primary custody. In this calculation the income limit in subparagraph (c)(2) and the minimum support amount in subparagraph (c)(3) apply.

(B) Multiplying this amount for each parent by the percentage of time the other parent will have physical custody of the children. However, if the court finds that the percentage of time each parent will have physical custody will not accurately reflect the ratio of funds each parent will directly spend on supporting the children, the court shall vary this percentage to reflect its findings.

(C) The parent with the larger figure calculated in the preceding subparagraph is the obligor parent and the annual award is equal to the difference between the two figures multiplied by 1.5. However, if this figure is higher than the amount of support which would be calculated under paragraph (a) assuming primary custody, the annual support is the amount calculated under paragraph (a).
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#21 of 23 Old 10-11-2007, 01:34 AM
 
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#22 of 23 Old 10-11-2007, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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found this on CS modification in New York:


When can child support orders be changed?Child support orders cannot be changed on a whim or because a court thinks that "it is time." It must be based on evidence proving that there is good reason to make the change. This usually requires that a person who wants to make the change show a changed circumstance. You must show that the facts that existed when the last order was entered have changed. (In the many years a child support order is in place, the parent's circumstances may change many times.) For example, in New York, if one parent's income has changed (either gone up or down) by at least 25%, this is considered a big enough change to require a change in the support order. You can request a modification for a lesser change in income, but will not necessarily be guaranteed a change in the support order.

What circumstances might require a change in support?
Many different scenarios can create changed circumstances. For example, if the paying parent has had a large increase in income, the court can order the child support increased. Or, if the child's needs grow, such as if the child becomes ill or disabled, the amount of support can be ordered raised. Sometimes the mere passage of time creates the changed circumstances. For example, as a child grows older, it becomes more expensive to buy clothes, food and other necessities. These increased expenses can be enough to justify a raise in the support order.

Support can also be reduced if you can show why this would be fair. For example, support payments may be reduced if the custodial parent inherits money, gets a large raise or otherwise has an increased ability to support the children. Or, if the paying parent loses his or her job, the court can be asked to reduce support during the period of unemployment.
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I wonder if my job (which by no means pays really well - look at my sig., I'm a librarian) constitutes "an increased ability to support the children"

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#23 of 23 Old 10-11-2007, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And this:


How can Child Support be changed or modified? The courts in New York will permit the modification of child support, either upward or downward, if there has been a substantial change in circumstances, the change is not something that has been previously anticipated. Of course, self-inflicted economic injuries may not be accepted as a justification for a downward modification.

Can a Child Support obligation be discharged in bankruptcy? No. Federal law does not allow child support or alimony payments to be discharged. If there is genuine economic distress (which bankruptcy is intended to alleviate), then modification of the support order by the State court should be pursued.

"While Eeyore frets ...and Piglet hesitates...and Rabbit calculates...and Owl pontificates...Pooh just is."
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