Upset. EXDH wants to "reunited" DD her molester. - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 46 Old 06-25-2008, 01:06 AM
 
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GoBec, please consider that you did this at age 19, not at age 8. Makes a very big difference.

I smell religion somewhere in here -- all this talk about finding it in her heart to forgive. Are you in a very religious area? If so, is there not some sort of court wariness regarding the Mormon-fundamentalist embarrassment that recently happened? Do keep in mind that if you can appeal a bad decision, the less parochial the court gets the more it'll be aware of scrutiny from child advocates.
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#32 of 46 Old 06-25-2008, 05:58 AM
 
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He was still having sex with me when i was at 8. He stopped when i was 12. I began processing when i was 13 (when sex ed classes revealed to me the extent of the wrongness inside our family home) and faced him about it at 14, then again at 17, when he told me who had been abusing him (i'd had no idea) and i told him i forgave him. I had to live with him and with the possibility of the abuse returning throughout all that time. Please do not belittle my experience, i offered it to help not to disagree for the sake of it. It is hard to get on with one's life when one is carrying this sort of thing around. It is hard to get over it when everyone is saying "oh you NEVER get over something like that!" and acting like you're made of glass. If it happened to my daughter in a similar situation (i.e. if the abuser was themself a child at the time) i would do my best to resolve it for everyone's sake, ESPECIALLY my childs'. If you treat someone like a victim they continue to be one, and if you treat someone like a monster they might just become one.

Anyway, that was the $0.02 of someone who has been in a somewhat similar situation. I shall butt out now.
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#33 of 46 Old 06-25-2008, 10:55 AM
 
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He was still having sex with me when i was at 8. He stopped when i was 12. I began processing when i was 13 (when sex ed classes revealed to me the extent of the wrongness inside our family home) and faced him about it at 14, then again at 17, when he told me who had been abusing him (i'd had no idea) and i told him i forgave him. I had to live with him and with the possibility of the abuse returning throughout all that time. Please do not belittle my experience, i offered it to help not to disagree for the sake of it. It is hard to get on with one's life when one is carrying this sort of thing around. It is hard to get over it when everyone is saying "oh you NEVER get over something like that!" and acting like you're made of glass. If it happened to my daughter in a similar situation (i.e. if the abuser was themself a child at the time) i would do my best to resolve it for everyone's sake, ESPECIALLY my childs'. If you treat someone like a victim they continue to be one, and if you treat someone like a monster they might just become one.

Anyway, that was the $0.02 of someone who has been in a somewhat similar situation. I shall butt out now.
GoBecGo

I agree with this. I am also a victim. It's really not until you stop "fearing" that person that you can move on. No, I don't think you can say "get over it" ~ but you can live life every day without some phrase, some smell, some touch sending you into a tailspin.

OP ~ I agree that it is VERY likely that your DD's offender (especially since he was so young himself) was a victim as well. That doesn't excuse or justify his behaviour ~ but it may help your DD "understand" what happened. Ultimately, I don't really care what makes the "family" feel better. However, both your DD & the offender need to heal. It may help both of them to "break the cycle".

There's also the fact that your DD may not "frame" what happened properly without understanding it. I know girls who think all 13-yo are offenders, or boys w/brown hair, or glasses, or thin, or some other "characteristic". Do you know whether or not she walks around each day scared of every boy/man she sees who holds some similarity to the offender?

Again, I'm not advocating that she be pushed into something she's not ready for. However, as a survivor ~ I understand what the goal of the therapists is. I'm curious, when she says she's scared to meet him b/c he said he would beat her up (and that's a whole new level of scary!) ~ have you talked with her about how if she wanted to face him it would NEVER be alone and she could have as many people as she wanted there with her. Even police.

Is there some type of middle ground, mediation or "smaller step" that could be taken that everyone might be comfortable with?? Is there any way that EXDH's family could have this boy write a letter. He could apologize. Something to open the communication that is non-threatening to your DD?

I commend you for wanting to protect your DD. I understand the desire to grab her & run. However, sometimes an "outsider" recognizes that we've run so far in the other direction that we've actually passed up places we would otherwise be comfortable standing in.
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#34 of 46 Old 06-25-2008, 02:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mama41 View Post
GoBec, please consider that you did this at age 19, not at age 8. Makes a very big difference.

I smell religion somewhere in here -- all this talk about finding it in her heart to forgive. Are you in a very religious area? If so, is there not some sort of court wariness regarding the Mormon-fundamentalist embarrassment that recently happened? Do keep in mind that if you can appeal a bad decision, the less parochial the court gets the more it'll be aware of scrutiny from child advocates.
I fail to see what the poster's religious beliefs (if any) have to do with this. Also, as you can see, this didn't happen at age 19.

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#35 of 46 Old 06-25-2008, 03:13 PM
 
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I spent time with my molester "supposedly safely" and it was not healthy or empowering. It was not pleasant. It ruined holidays for me that otherwise could have been joyful.

Being molested didn't destroy me, and being physically safe in the presence of my molester DID NOT empower me.

besides, it sounds like the molesters family is minimizing and denying and I'd bet you theres more than one molester in those sorts of settings.
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#36 of 46 Old 06-25-2008, 03:51 PM
 
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WOW- I'm sickend and horrified by all of this! How appaling that they have the audacity to do this. How very proud of YOU I am, that you are standing TRUE to Yourself, and your Daughter! Courage mamma is right.

Isn't there a big NATIONAL association that would be interested in helping a CHILD protect herself from her predator? There has to be an outside agency that is willing to help you... off to do some searching.

I also agree that you should check into changing the custody agreement- esp. if EH is pressuring you to violate 2 current court oders. Until those orders are overturned he is trying to violate them IMHO. Even a tempoary custody change might make enough of a wave to get him to BACK OFF. What a UAV.

Married to Michael and Mother of Jake 9, Jillianne 7, Jensen 5, Jacen 4. I've got severe osteoporosis, a fractured hip and chronic pain-so please be patient with me! Pagan,Crocheter,Reader,Homeschooler- that's me in a nutshell.

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#37 of 46 Old 06-26-2008, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post
I haven't read all the responses. I was abused by a family member with a similar age gap. My abuser was the victim of an adult molester which was what led him to abuse me.

I wasn't "reuinited" - we lived together in the same house all my life until i was 19, but i DID have to figure out how it all happened, what caused it, who he was and where he was with it (suicidally regretful, as it happens) and yes, forgive him.

It was the best possible thing for me to do. My forgiveness has made NO difference to the guilt he feels, but it has released ME to live a normal life and not hold onto this thing. I don't think your DD should be forced to do anything she doesn't want, but i cannot tell you how empowering it is to look into your abusers eyes and say "You did me wrong. What do you have to say?".
Thank you for sharing your story. I truly do appreciate it.

My DD will never have the opportunity to ask him "why?" I can not be there with her now because of the divorce and EXDH's family believes that *I* made this all up. That I forced DD to say it happened to hurt them. (notice everything is about THEM??)
Since the divorce EXDH has gone along with his family in telling people that I made DD do this, even though we were married at the time it happened and came out. He was 100% for DD until months after the divorce. He didn't speak to or have anything to do with his family because they sided with the nephew, even hired his attorney but then he needed money from mommy and daddy and tried to turn this all around on me.

They will never protect my DD from him. They have already told DD that I made her do this.
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#38 of 46 Old 06-26-2008, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Isn't there a big NATIONAL association that would be interested in helping a CHILD protect herself from her predator? There has to be an outside agency that is willing to help you... off to do some searching.

I also agree that you should check into changing the custody agreement- esp. if EH is pressuring you to violate 2 current court oders. Until those orders are overturned he is trying to violate them IMHO. Even a tempoary custody change might make enough of a wave to get him to BACK OFF. What a UAV.
I can't find anything. I've searched and searched. Everything is about abuse between siblings sharing the same home.

I have an appointment next week with my attorney but I can promise you I will not be able to get the CA changed. He hasn't violated them yet. Our court system here is 99% in favor of the father. And it won't make him back off but rather fight harder. He is not for one second scared of court, yet he thrives on it. We have been in and out of court for the last 2 years every chance he gets.
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#39 of 46 Old 06-26-2008, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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GoBecGo have you talked with her about how if she wanted to face him it would NEVER be alone and she could have as many people as she wanted there with her. Even police.

Is there some type of middle ground, mediation or "smaller step" that could be taken that everyone might be comfortable with?? Is there any way that EXDH's family could have this boy write a letter. He could apologize. Something to open the communication that is non-threatening to your DD?
Sorry, I just noticed this.

I can not promise that to my DD because IF they were to be "reunited" I would NOT be there with her at all. She would be in the custody of my EXDH who now believes that I made DD say that she was abused. The nephew is EXDH's brothers child and NONE other them believe it even happened. And IF it did happen, according to them, they are not sure what the big deal is.
They believe IF it did happen that they are BOTH at fault and they he was just "experimenting" even though DD was 5 and he was 13.

I can't go into details here but what he did to my DD is wayyy beyond playing doctor. And even though he admitted to being in the bed naked with her he never would admit everything that happened.... even though HIS best friend gave statements to the police that "the boy" was going around school bragging about what he did to DD....and the "bragging" story was the same exact thing my DD said happened to her.

The issues are a lot bigger than just "reuniting" them. I can not for one second believe that they will protect my DD from him and that if something was to happen again, whether it be sexual, mental or physical abuse that they (the entire family) wouldn't cover it up and hide it to the best of their ability to protect him AGAIN.
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#40 of 46 Old 06-26-2008, 07:14 AM
 
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OP I'm so deeply sorry for everything your dd is going threw. I don't have any words to truly express my disgust.



When I was 10yo all family dinners/holidays suddenly stopped for my family, with the rest of my mothers side. My sister finally had the courage to tell my parents that she was raped at age 17 (she's 12 years older than I am) by my mothers brother.

I was sad, I didn't get it, I wanted to go to grandma's house for Christmas, but nobody wanted to tell me why, so it was just the way it was.

As I got older I would hear little things here and there about what my relatives had said about the event. Many thought that since my sister was 17, that she had seduced my uncle. That it was a consensual event. That my sister should have known better. If she was really raped she would have said something sooner. Nobody turned their back on my uncle, every body turned their back on my sister, then my mom, and then on us all.

I remember once my Mom and her sister having a fight (they didn't know I could over hear) and my Mom said "What would you have done if it was your daughter?". My aunt replied "This would never happen. . .to my daughter". As if this was something my sister asked for.



My point is that when I learned of how my family handled everything, I was proud of my Mom for protecting me. I was glad I missed all those family gatherings with people who didn't wish to protect or believe my sister. I have forgiven my uncle, and so has my sister. We don't want to go to his house for dinner, I will not be at his funeral, but I have forgiven him.

This didn't happen for my sister and myself until the last few years. My sister is now in her mid-forties, and I am 33. I can't fathom how a 8 year old is suppose to process these feelings enough for a reunion. This should be your dd's choice. It's not something to be decided on because of family dynamic, or making things easier for grandparents. Your dd should not be forced into this.



Anything we can do, research, look into. Please ask. Again I'm sorry.

-Janna, independent mother of dd, Ms. Mattie Sky born on my 25th birthday, 06*23*2000. My Mama Feb.21,1938-Sept.10,2006
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#41 of 46 Old 06-26-2008, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Anything we can do, research, look into. Please ask. Again I'm sorry.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing your story. I also have another DD(9) and a DS(5) with my EXDH. I have often wondered how they will feel about this when they are older.

My oldest DD has stated that she understands what happened to her sister and desires no contact with "the boy." She also attended counseling with DD2 for her feelings as to what happened to her sister and to learn ways to cope with it.

My DS however did not because of his age. He is the one that now questions why he can't be around "the boy." He understands that he "hurt" his sister but of course because of his age he doesn't know what happened. He has started to use this against DD when he is mad. He has told her "It's your fault that we can't play with (the boy)." It hurts me so bad when DS does this to DD.
I have explained to DS time and time again that it is NOT DD's fault, that she didn't do anything wrong. But he has grandparents telling him different....so he is torn as what to do/who to believe.

My poor kids are going to need counseling for the rest of their life because of THE BOY.
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#42 of 46 Old 06-26-2008, 12:00 PM
 
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I'm confused as to why your son doesn't know about what happened to his sister due to age since he is the same age as your dd was when it happened. Why can't he go to counseling with your dds.

I'm so sorry for what is happening to you. How can a man take sides against his own daughter in regards to this and still be a man. I would think that the courts would take into account the family including the father denying the abuse and therefore not providing a good environment for reunification.
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#43 of 46 Old 06-26-2008, 01:43 PM
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this is the sickest thing i've heard all week.

of course your daughter felt "ready" to meet him again. she's a little girl who was in a safe space being coached to make herself ready. i'm sure the reality of it didn't strike her until it was imminent. small children just can't realistically project that far into the future and those who can really can't realistically project possible emotional outcomes of complex situations. it really sounds like the officials in this case wouldn't understand the phrase "developmentally appropriate communication" if it bit them in the ass.
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#44 of 46 Old 06-26-2008, 01:46 PM
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i can't ever remember hearing about children that young molesting other children unless they had been harmed first. since most abusers re family members and the family is in such firm denial about it it does sound to me like he might not be the only one in the bunch. i'm so so sorry this is happening.

i would be cautious about allowing any pattern that sets up the boy as someone your son desperately wants contact with or makes time with him a "hidden prize"
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#45 of 46 Old 06-26-2008, 05:03 PM
 
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Pentaxlady thanks for your response. I understand a little better now.

I would say in your situation, given your daughter cannot choose who she has there to be protected, it is a poor idea to reunite them when she doesn't want it. Perhaps when she is older and you are all less at the mercy of the access visitation orders etc. she will be in a better position to go through this.

I would suggest that there is a paedophile among the nay-sayers in EXDH's family who is keen to call your DD a liar to save their own sorry skin. I hope the cousin isn't still being abused Did he have therapy? I don't know what he did but i can remember the moment in the playground when i realised anal and oral sex are not "doctors and nurses" and my childhood, and indeed world, sort of slowly collapsed round my ears and i feel for you and your DD, i really do. I know what you mean about the difference between innocent "experimenting" and knowledgeable abuse. And yet i didn't realise until i was told by my abuser that the same had been happening to him - it's dot to dot but who has time in the mess to join up ALL the dots?

Anyway, we are all meant to save the world, but it's reasonable to begin with your OWN kids, so leaving the cousin aside for a moment - what happens when you outright refuse to let this happen? GIven what you said about EXDH's support before and after the divorce, do you feel it might be worthwhile writing to him and saying something like "when all this is over, in 30 years, our arguments and worries and family troubles will be gone and forgotten, but our daughter will ALWAYS remember that her Daddy failed to protect her. I don't care what excuse you make, i don't care if you blame me, i don't care if you say i got a legal ruling, just please, PLEASE don't let her Daddy, the one man she needs to be able to really rely on her whole life, also be the one who put her in fear or danger to please grown adults who could just get over it."? If he believed her at first it's likely he's toeing his family's line because he needs them more than he needs you. It's pretty sickening that he could flip-flop on such an issue (my XP, for all his faults, would have to have been prevented from murder i fear) but it's still possible the truth is inside him.

I really hope you find resolution on this and that your kids come through. The only thing i would say is NEVER tell them they can't get over it. I have gotten over it. I can speak to my abuser, we have carved out a looks-almost-like-normal family relationship. I would NEVER leave him alone with my children (because when we told my mother about HIS abuser she said "i wondered about him" and i will NEVER make my children hear those words from me), but i don't fear him or have flashbacks anymore, my sexual dysfunctions are gone and i have no depression or anxiety. You can heal from this. I think of those trees, tortured into crazy shapes by relentless strong winds when they are saplings. People like me and your DD might grow into less regular shapes as people, but we are strong and we can be every but as beautiful in our strangeness as others can be in their normality.

With love (really)

Bec
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#46 of 46 Old 06-28-2008, 05:04 PM
 
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GoBecGo

I agree with this. I am also a victim. It's really not until you stop "fearing" that person that you can move on. No, I don't think you can say "get over it" ~ but you can live life every day without some phrase, some smell, some touch sending you into a tailspin.

OP ~ I agree that it is VERY likely that your DD's offender (especially since he was so young himself) was a victim as well. That doesn't excuse or justify his behaviour ~ but it may help your DD "understand" what happened. Ultimately, I don't really care what makes the "family" feel better. However, both your DD & the offender need to heal. It may help both of them to "break the cycle".

There's also the fact that your DD may not "frame" what happened properly without understanding it. I know girls who think all 13-yo are offenders, or boys w/brown hair, or glasses, or thin, or some other "characteristic". Do you know whether or not she walks around each day scared of every boy/man she sees who holds some similarity to the offender?

Again, I'm not advocating that she be pushed into something she's not ready for. However, as a survivor ~ I understand what the goal of the therapists is. I'm curious, when she says she's scared to meet him b/c he said he would beat her up (and that's a whole new level of scary!) ~ have you talked with her about how if she wanted to face him it would NEVER be alone and she could have as many people as she wanted there with her. Even police.

Is there some type of middle ground, mediation or "smaller step" that could be taken that everyone might be comfortable with?? Is there any way that EXDH's family could have this boy write a letter. He could apologize. Something to open the communication that is non-threatening to your DD?

I commend you for wanting to protect your DD. I understand the desire to grab her & run. However, sometimes an "outsider" recognizes that we've run so far in the other direction that we've actually passed up places we would otherwise be comfortable standing in.
Your points all mostly very good, but there is an enormous difference between a reunion in a therapeutic setting for the well-being of the victim and what is happening here.

OP, I have no words to express how f-ed up this is. I really wish I could tell you that no judge would ever allow that but I was in foster care as a teenager and have seen 12 year old victims dragged back to live with their molesters and children not taken seriously because the molesters was also a child. Hire a good lawyer for your DD. Perhaps you could also file for full custody over something like that.

Single mom to E (2004) and D (2010)
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