Austin is coming home (picture added) - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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Pets > Austin is coming home (picture added)
mamallama's Avatar mamallama 01:46 AM 12-24-2008
I call shenanigans.

Why does she want him so badly?

mom0810's Avatar mom0810 01:59 PM 12-24-2008
Mamallama,
This happens all the time. As breeders, when we evaluate puppies at 8 weeks or 10 weeks or 12 weeks, we don't always pick the best one. I've sold puppies as pets that I see two or three years later and realize I sold what could have been a National Specialty winner or a BIS dog. It hurts. It's so hard. It rips your guts out to see a dog you could have campaigned to a Top 10 title running around in someone's back yard... sometimes not groomed properly, sometimes overweight or out of condition. Then it just tears you apart because you see what it could have been if it stayed at your house. And perhaps you kept a sibling that is a lesser dog now but you thought was a good one at the time you made picks. But that's part of the game.

I'm guessing Austin's breeder didn't know what she was selling when she sold him. Then, she saw him as a grown up and wanted him for her own. Plus, Mesa moved away. Far away. So now Austin's breeder REALLY wants him with her because she won't have easy access to him to breed.

I just think, no... I KNOW... that the whole thing is bull. First it's his sperm count is low... then now his heart... I think it's b.s. Having worked with big time breeders and big time handlers... I know how they think and operate. Next she'll want to share custody of him, six months here, six months there...

They aren't always bad people... I think that ego and pride get in the way of logic sometimes. A lot of times. When you breed something that you recognize as really really good... of course you want it for yourself. But she needs to search her heart because this dog was sold as a companion to mesa... and he should live with her. His sperm can travel... safe sex by Fed Ex is very effective. But right now the breeder only sees a future of prestigious show wins and that is what matters to her.
Miasmamma's Avatar Miasmamma 12:35 PM 12-26-2008
It does happen and often. My breeder's pick boy from her last litter went from Ohio to Alaska! She does see him and show him at specialities, but I know that it just killed her to let him go so far. It is very hard to evaulate puppies at such a young age. I'm always glad that I'm just the puppy recipent, not the breeder!
mom0810's Avatar mom0810 01:03 PM 12-26-2008
It's part of what makes being a breeder so heartbreaking... and so gratifying, all at the same time.

What's hard is being the newbie co-owner on a dog from a breeder... I can remember back to those days and it just hurts every time I think of it. You get pretty jaded pretty quick in this sport, and when you think of it, the breeders went through all of it at one point, too, and that is why they are the way they are sometimes. You get hurt enough and you become pretty savvy and sometimes, unfortunately, pretty mean. But all you can see as a breeder sometimes is the glory and that gets in the way of your empathy for a co-owner like Mesa. It's really hard and so sad. I just really hope that Austin DOES come back to her one day.
Miasmamma's Avatar Miasmamma 05:40 PM 12-26-2008
I will agree with that. I co-own my female weim with her breeder. She was the first dog that I ever agreed to a co-ownership for and I really didn't understand what all was involved. Her breeder showed her the first few times, but then Julie got sick with an auto-immune disorder. I haven't heard from her breeder in almost 8 years now. Luckily for Julie, spaying her took care of her flare-ups. We had noticed that it was tied very closely to her heat cycles, so once she was fixed, no more flare-ups. But that also meant no more shows and no chance of breeding her. It hurt me b/c she's a great looking weim and was tearing up the ring before she was spayed. Now, she's a great hunting dog and a couch potato!

I too hope that Austin comes home soon. Mesa, have you spoken more to your mom about going to get him?
mom0810's Avatar mom0810 06:44 PM 12-26-2008
Oh yes. If you have a sick dog from a well known or powerful breeder, you might as well fall off the planet because they will suddenly have no use for you. And, they will feel threatened enough by you to sometimes blackball you in the breed so you can never buy another one. This does not ALWAYS happen, but it very often does. Co-owning is a very bad thing, more often than not. And, as Mesa is finding out, you really have no recourse most of the time. I don't know anyone in dogs who has co-owned without a terrible, sometimes life altering experience. I will never ever ever do it again. But it's so hard if you want to start out in dogs, and I feel so sorry for anyone who really does, because some times, co-owning is the only way you can get even a close to decent dog. No breeder will knowingly sell a REALLY good one to a novice, and certainly, even a decent one won't go without a co-ownership. So it's kind of one of those things you have to go through in order to pay your dues. Anyone who's anyone in dogs has their horror stories to tell, and they all start to sound alike after a while.

If you believe the top breeders are in dogs for the love of their breed, you are still a novice. Oh yes, that's why they started, but once you really start to make a name for yourself, you become more concerned with your name than the dogs. And by that time you are so far "in" the game that you can't get out. Mesa's breeder has, I am guessing, forgotten what it's like when you first start out in dogs and you just LOVE your pets. It changes for you after you've been doing it awhile. I sympathize with both sides... but I really hope mesa's Austin comes home.
phatchristy's Avatar phatchristy 07:09 PM 12-26-2008
Mesa--Just wanted to send you some . Honestly, everything you're thinking...she switched the dog for the vet, or any of that...it's likely correct. I've known all sorts of stuff like that, seen it happen to people I've worked with before. I've actually known someone who I used to work with who had a DIFFERENT animal shipped to them (same color, obviously different animal, she had pictures as she had met the cat at a show previously). It's one of the reasons why new people who have moral integrity have difficulty with sustainability in the fancy. When you do encounter these situations it's so disappointing and disheartening on multiple levels.

If it were me, I would definitely go get him in person. But then again, I also wouldn't be surprised if they would find a way to get out of that as well.

A breeder of integrity is going to assume that as part of breeding there will be times when they will sell an animal that turns out to be better than ones they chose to keep. That is just part of breeding. They accept it, grieve their 'mistake', follow through with their contract/obligations and then move on.

I've even had a breeder backtrack on me as well, on a cat that I had a contract to purchase. It was a tortie girl, well interestingly enough shortly before I was to drive accross a couple states and pick her up she "died"...mysteriously. Then, of course later that year the breeder had a tortie out that had been born only a couple weeks from the one I was purchasing that she was campaigning. Of course, that girl had IDENTICAL markings to the tortie that I had bought. :
RufusBeans's Avatar RufusBeans 02:12 PM 12-27-2008
Posting in support
daekini's Avatar daekini 11:48 PM 01-04-2009
Just wondering how things are going...
mesa's Avatar mesa 01:09 PM 01-05-2009
thanks for asking! He has a cardiologist appointment this week, and then I will know something definitely. I'm going to call her today to find out when exactly his appointment is.
Miasmamma's Avatar Miasmamma 01:46 PM 01-06-2009
Can you call the office and request that the findings are also made available to you whether by phone call or fax? You are also on record as an owner so there shouldn't be a problem. I would trust them more than her at this point.
mom0810's Avatar mom0810 02:03 PM 01-06-2009
Does he have a microchip? I would request that he be scanned prior to the testing so that you know it's actually your dog.
phatchristy's Avatar phatchristy 02:05 AM 01-08-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom0810 View Post
Does he have a microchip? I would request that he be scanned prior to the testing so that you know it's actually your dog.
:, at this point I would be terribly suspect. If indeed he has heart issues then a reputable breeder would not be considering breeding him anyhow...correct?
mesa's Avatar mesa 02:30 AM 01-08-2009
no, she wouldn't, and she really hasn't mentioned that lately. If his heart is damaged congenitally, she definitely won't breed him. She's absolutely hardcore about health testing all her dogs, so I have no doubt that if his heart is really damaged, he won't be bred. She's not hurting for quality studs, she already has a top winning son out of her foundation sire (Austin is also his son), and they're actually very similar...Austin is more dog than Chris, taller, more ear and bone...but they are really similar. If you didn't know them, you might even get them mixed up...

So, we decided to send him home without seeing the cardiologist. She's going to a different vet tomorrow for a health cert, and he should (SHOULD) be home this weekend. I know she could find someone to take him in a heartbeat if I decided to leave him there, but as it stands right now, she's really not in a position to keep him herself...3 males (including him) who MUST be kept separated at all times, a newly whelped mama and 11 pups, two other bitches in heat, 4 other females, AND one Pointer. Not to mention her adult daughter (and her dork boyfriend) were just evicted from their home and moved in with her(Austin's amazing sponsor, imagine that) 2 days after giving birth to a baby she denied being pregnant with for 8 months.

drama drama. I don't care, really. I just want my damn dog back...and it looks like she's finally coming to her senses. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, though.

But wouldn't it be nice if he were home by Saturday? That's his 3rd birthday and my son's 6th birthday. <sniff>
daekini's Avatar daekini 09:58 AM 01-08-2009

phatchristy's Avatar phatchristy 03:16 PM 01-08-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesa View Post
drama drama. I don't care, really. I just want my damn dog back...and it looks like she's finally coming to her senses. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, though.

But wouldn't it be nice if he were home by Saturday? That's his 3rd birthday and my son's 6th birthday. <sniff>
You know, she *deserves* the drama for all of the %$#^ she put you through. Honestly, inexusable.

I'm just hoping that everything else about him coming home is completely uneventful....and that you have a happy reunion!!!

I know you'll keep us all updated! Sending you some .
mesa's Avatar mesa 06:39 PM 01-08-2009
okay, I've booked him on a flight...he should be getting here at 2:04 pm Saturday afternoon. His health cert appt is tomorrow at 9 am. Cross everythign crossable that this works out. He's really tall, like nearly 29 inches, his 500 size crate is 30 inches...airline regs state that he needs to be able to "stand, turn, and lie down comfortably"...I hope they don't try to say that his crate is too small. Next size up is a 700 crate, which requires a widebody jet that DOESN'T fly into Minneapolis...not to mention it costs $750 dollars.
daekini's Avatar daekini 07:31 PM 01-08-2009
:good luck austin!
mesa's Avatar mesa 11:41 PM 01-09-2009
oy vey. I swear I've lost about 10 years and gained 50 new gray hairs during this ordeal. The wire transfer for his ticket has been sent...but it's not GONE yet. The lady at the bank said it can be instantaneous or take up to 72 FRIGGING HOURS. :

Aren't we in the digital age? I could have MAILED her the money (or even sent it FedEx overnight) for less than what this wire transfer cost me, and gotten it there sooner!!

Here's hoping that the money gets in her account by 5 am CST...because that's what time she's leaving for the airport. If not, well, I guess we wait some more. Probably until Sunday or Monday.

Good news, though...he did get his health cert today.
mesa's Avatar mesa 11:49 PM 01-09-2009
and now, for your viewing pleasure.....a puppy pic. Le sigh...
daekini's Avatar daekini 12:26 AM 01-10-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesa View Post

Good news, though...he did get his health cert today.
Yay! And crossing fingers. And drooling over puppy pix!
mesa's Avatar mesa 11:47 AM 01-10-2009
negative. too tall for the $%#@^%%$*^%$ crate.
mom0810's Avatar mom0810 01:02 PM 01-10-2009
Are your sure? Did you talk to someone at the airline or is this just what she is telling you? I would FIND SOMEONE TO GO AND GET HIM BY CAR. ASAP. Then, see what her excuse is.

If you can't get someone to go get him, I would start facing the fact that she is planning on keeping him. If I were you, I would tell her I was getting in my car and coming to get him. Period. Then see what she says. I am guessing she will panic.
mesa's Avatar mesa 01:20 PM 01-10-2009
when I booked his reservation, they told me there was a very good chance that he would be refused on drop off...there's only an inch clearance between his shoulder and the top of the crate, and they were very specific that his head must be held in a natural position when standing, and he must have an inch clearance between his ears and the top of the crate.

Now, I've signed him up for Operation Roger...truckers pet transport. It's a volunteer network of long haul truckers who take pets all over the country to adoptive homes...I've paid the fee, and now I just wait for them to tell me when he gets picked up. I've emailed her all of this...so I guess a defining moment is coming up soon. If she balks at giving him to the driver, I'll simply have my uncle who lives in Phoenix go get him from her and hand him over to the driver.

I just want it all to be %&**&%# OVER ALREADY.
mom0810's Avatar mom0810 04:36 PM 01-10-2009
Yes, I know and I am sure you do. I would just plan for your uncle to get him now and then have the driver come and get him from your uncles. This is just way too fishy and God Bless you, but you are way too trusting. This kind of thing happens all the time in dogs, and I promise you, this woman is trying to steal your dog.

Be equally as assertive and just tell her WHEN your uncle will be there. Period. I am guessing she will not even hand him over to your uncle, but you can try. She will make up something like since he is not the co-owner, she can't give Austin to him... I guarantee. But try it at least. You have got to be aggressive, or the dog will not get to you. Why wasn't the size thing brought up weeks ago? Do you see where I am going? There is NO CRATE that costs $700.00. Well, there are, but not that you need for shipping. Newfs and Great Danes are shipped for showing all the time.

The other thing you could do is, you could fly there and buy Austing a ticket to sit next to you on the plane. Right now you have to decide if you really want YOUR dog back or you just want any dog. Get a puppy if you want. It's time to make that choice. This will go on forever. She was offering you a puppy weeks ago, so you KNOW she wants to keep Austin. Either go and get him or forget him. I'm sorry, I know you are so sad.
mesa's Avatar mesa 11:52 PM 01-10-2009
not that it matters much, but the bigger kennel itself was the 700 size, and the plane ticket was $750. The bigger crate cost $150 or thereabouts...I knew the size thing might be an issue...I was just hoping that the airline employee would over look it, you know?

Anyway, good news is, he was APPROVED for the Operation Roger transport...now they just need to find a driver who will take him. His breeder has agreed to send him that way too...she offered to drive and meet me halfway, but I can't do it...time, vehicle constraints, etc etc won't allow me to take off for a couple of days, you know?
mom0810's Avatar mom0810 11:52 AM 01-11-2009
Oh, good. Good. I hope he is home really soon.
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