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#31 of 44 Old 04-13-2011, 03:27 PM
 
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a keeshound would be the right size and temperament, but have LOTS of hair.  Plus they are the CUTEST puppies!!! 

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#32 of 44 Old 04-13-2011, 08:18 PM
 
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We have a poodle mix and in many ways she is great.  BUT!  She was the most destructive puppy in the universe.  We walk her for about an hour a day and have a big fenced yard.  She was hell.   Now, she is great (3 yo) for the most part.  Poodles are really nice dogs, but they are so smart that you have to tire them mentally, as well as physically.

 

Are you planning on having a crate for the dog in the apt?  That would make a difference for me.  In order to leave our dog as a puppy, she needed to be crated otherwise she would destroy absolutely everything in reach. 

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#33 of 44 Old 04-14-2011, 12:51 PM
 
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I recommend a Golden Retriever like a PP. A female will be between 55 and 65 pounds and if she is spayed and on a quality food she will not shed much. Coat care and bathing is easy and will not require professional grooming like a poodle or poodle mix would. Germany has some very good breeders and if you go through a reputable breeder they will likely do temperament testing, (and you will definitely want to go though a breeder that does this). The testing will show which puppies are high or low energy and which will be easily trainable. Since you mentioned that you are novice trainers, I think that the trainability of the dog is key for you. Goldens do ok in an apartment with regular exercise since they really love their people and want to be near them. I have a hard time getting my Goldens to go outside and exercise without me, they just come back to the front door and whine to get back in! Some of the working dogs may match your criteria, (Belgian Malinois and similar types), they may be too dominant for people new to training. If you are considering a Golden, now would be a great time to contact the breed club in Berlin and get on an email list that focuses on breed discussion. That way you are well versed in the breed characteristics and health problems before you even start looking for a breeder. Actually, I would recommend that you do that with any breed that you are considering.


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#34 of 44 Old 04-14-2011, 01:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post

The biggest obstacle see is you say you want a calm dog. Regardless of how calm the breed is known to be as as adult, puppies are not known to be calm and the medium+ size breeds take longer to mature than small breeds so you could easily be looking at years before the dog matures into calm. If calmness is a high priority for you then I'd seriously consider getting an adult dog so that you avoid the hyper puppy stage and also know that the dog has a calm disposition, because even within a breed known for it there are dogs that just aren't and you won't know you have one until it's grown.



 I wish to 3rd this - puppies are not calm, so you are setting yourself up for a year + of high energy.  bolding an important point above.  goldens and labs are both high energy breeds, even though most can be wonderful family dogs.

 

also, a french bulldog is not the same as what you're probably thinking of as a bulldog or bully breed.


mom to Andrew   born Feb 6th, already a mom to child with fur; and still missing and still wondering about the lost possibilities Mar 17, 2009
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#35 of 44 Old 04-14-2011, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bremen View Post

I do not expect a puppy to be calm. I don't even want it.

I love the puppy stage. They are like 2 year olds. Wild, fun, learning, making messes.

I know what puppies are like.

 

A rescue is not right for us right now. We have specific needs for size and temperament. Neither of us are fabulous dog trainers, or highly experienced. We have had dogs as kids, and been to training classes. We want to start with a puppy where we have an idea what to expect. Every animal comes with surprises, but getting a puppy from known parentage, health and temperament tested, is a better starting place for us.

 

If someone posted about TTC, you wouldn't tell them about how they should adopt an older child. They have made their choice to have a baby, and while there are many 10 year olds who need loving homes, adopting a 10 year old isn't right for every family.

 

We want a mid to large sized dog. I want something that comes up to my knees. We will be living in Berlin. There will be people everywhere. I want something big enough to see, and big enough to have energy to go for long walks. I feel more comfortable walking a dog that I can see without looking down. For me, that is about knee-height. I NEVER want to have a dog in a stroller or a handbag.

 

We want a doggy dog. Play frisbee in the park. Go on walks. Play fetch. I don't want a toy.

 

Apartment life is not a bad life for a dog. Going on several walks per day, living with a big family, that is not too bad. Living there, we walk everywhere. It is normal to walk to some shop every day. It is a cultural norm to leave your dog tied up outside a store when you go inside for a few minutes. In germany, if your dog is on a leash, outside a store, and bites someone, the dog owner is not responsible. It is a different country, with different norms.

 

Judging by the dogs I have seen on the streets, where nearly half are this size or larger, I am not the only one who wants a big dog in the city.

 

I am not doing anything wrong here. I am planning ahead of time. I have heard a lot of great animal advice here, and was looking for breed suggestions, not suggestions to do something else entirely.

To the bolded, I think you are getting to caught up on breeders being the one and only way to know a dog's temperment etc. There are SO MANY purebred dog rescues out there that can find you a puppy. It isn't asking you to "look at the 10 year olds" or comparing it TTC...People are making valid points. You CAN get a purebred dog from a rescue that specializes in that breed and you can get a puppy too!.... It is just a matter of looking. Also knowing the breeder and the parents is still not a guarantee of anything with a dog. Yes bad breeding can result in some issues but even good breeding can present dogs with challenges...Also you are ignoring the fact that purebred dogs in generally are notorious for various health issues that come up throughout life.

 

Finally, you mention that you think taking a dog for several walks a day is sufficient exercise and I will STRONGLY disagree with this. Except for a few breeds (I'm thinking mastiff's and the like here) several on leash walks a day is NOT enough exercise for the average dog. They need at least a 1/2 hour, but better would be at least an hour, off leash daily to be happy and avoid destructive habits, such as chewing stuff and just general restlessness due to lack of exercise. I know you said you have owned dogs all your lives but seriously a few walks a day is NOT enough for the average breed of dog, it bothers me that you think it would be. Apartment living is fine for some breeds of dog but that is coupled with a lot of exercise and on leash just doesn't hack it all the time.

 

You have been given a lot of great advice here. It's too bad you don't like some of it, everything seems well intentioned. At this point I am just pretty bothered by your assertion that a puppy (let alone full grown dog) can be satisfied living in an apartment with several walks a day. You are setting yourself up for disaster if that is what you think. You have gotten several great breed suggestions but I think you are just unrealistic about what dealing with a puppy is going to be like.

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#36 of 44 Old 04-14-2011, 04:58 PM
 
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I disagree with your disagreement. lol.gif  Before kids, I was a professional dogwalker & petsitter.  I walked all kinds of dogs, from mutts to Bassets, Labs, Goldens, a Great Dane, a Shar Pei, a Springer Spaniel, Pit Bulls, Pomeranians, German Shepherds, Vizslas and Jack Russells.   They were my regular clients and I was very involved with their care.  For my dogwalking clients, I went to their house or apartment 3-5x a week while the people were at work, and walked the dog for 30 min or so.  I know that for many of the dogs, this was the only actual exercise they got that day. They were of course taken out to pee when their families got home, but then it was dinner and homework and bedtime and no time for walks- that is what they hired me for!

 

My point is that these dogs were fine. They were fit, happy, not destructive or mentally unhinged because they didn't get an hour of off leash time every day, or even ever. They were very well-adjusted family dogs.  It's wrong to suggest that people who don't walk their dogs for long periods several times a day cannot be good dog owners, because they certainly can. To me it sounds like the OP plans to give the dog plenty of exercise. 


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#37 of 44 Old 04-14-2011, 07:01 PM
 
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If I walked my dog 30 minutes, 3-5x per week, she would DESTROY the whole world.  It depends on the individual dog, as well as the breed. 

 

That being said, if she walked 2x per day for 30-45 minutes, plus off leash dog park visits, she will likely be just fine. 

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#38 of 44 Old 04-14-2011, 08:07 PM
 
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Golden Retriever. I loved mine so much, he was wonderfully sweet and seemed like he understood everything. Awesome with kids, they crawled all over him, laid on him and he just loved it.
Longer hair but easily controlled most of the year, just spring was extra shedding.

oh yeah, ETA we got him as a puppy when we lived in a second floor apt. I remember training him and running down the stairs to get him outside to pee on the tree out front, lol.
He loved living in apts, we moved a couple times and then loved it when we bought our house. He was a city dog all the way and loved walks in the city. We took him to a nature conservancy park and he swam in the river there and hiked with us

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#39 of 44 Old 04-15-2011, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lula's Mom View Post

I disagree with your disagreement. lol.gif  Before kids, I was a professional dogwalker & petsitter.  I walked all kinds of dogs, from mutts to Bassets, Labs, Goldens, a Great Dane, a Shar Pei, a Springer Spaniel, Pit Bulls, Pomeranians, German Shepherds, Vizslas and Jack Russells.   They were my regular clients and I was very involved with their care.  For my dogwalking clients, I went to their house or apartment 3-5x a week while the people were at work, and walked the dog for 30 min or so.  I know that for many of the dogs, this was the only actual exercise they got that day. They were of course taken out to pee when their families got home, but then it was dinner and homework and bedtime and no time for walks- that is what they hired me for!

 

My point is that these dogs were fine. They were fit, happy, not destructive or mentally unhinged because they didn't get an hour of off leash time every day, or even ever. They were very well-adjusted family dogs.  It's wrong to suggest that people who don't walk their dogs for long periods several times a day cannot be good dog owners, because they certainly can. To me it sounds like the OP plans to give the dog plenty of exercise. 

I'm not saying they aren't good dog owners, I am saying no dog is fulfilled (no matter what you want to tell me with dog walking experience, been there done that, family bred dogs been there done that, worked with trainers etc, read behavioral books) with not getting regular off leash time. Period. This is pretty much a fact amongst dog professionals of the world. Yes the dog can be happy and yes you can avoid issues if they are still super exercised but never getting off leash time sucks for a dog. Period.


 

 

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#40 of 44 Old 04-15-2011, 09:45 AM
 
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Um, OK? I'm sorry, that just makes me laugh.   I believe I would be more fulfilled if I lived in Spain and painted beautiful paintings every day, but that ain't my life and I am still happy with what I have!lol.gif  I guess a whole lot of dogs in this world are not "fulfilled". They'll never reach self-actualization.  And it doesn't matter- they are also still happy and have beautiful lives.  Sure. They would love to run off leash all the time, of course they would, but it is not feasible for many people to let their dogs do that.  I'm not sure what you want people who live in a place with strict leash laws to do? Or if there are no dog parks? Or people with severely dog-aggressive dogs who can never even be walked on the street, much less set loose in a dog park or to run through the woods (I had one!)?  In any case, the OP said she plans to allow her dog off-leash time at a dog park, so your point is moot. 



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post

Finally, you mention that you think taking a dog for several walks a day is sufficient exercise and I will STRONGLY disagree with this. Except for a few breeds (I'm thinking mastiff's and the like here) several on leash walks a day is NOT enough exercise for the average dog. They need at least a 1/2 hour, but better would be at least an hour, off leash daily to be happy and avoid destructive habits, such as chewing stuff and just general restlessness due to lack of exercise.

And I pointed out that I have cared for hundreds of dogs (you seem to want to dismiss that experience, does it matter that I also spent years as a registered vet tech? no?), so I do pretty well know what "the average dog" is like.  As a pp said, certain dogs don't do well unless they have a whole lot of exercise. They will chew things, yes.  But saying that the average dog needs 1/2-1 hour of off leash exercise daily in order to just maintain sanity and not destroy the house, is not a realistic viewpoint and doesn't match up with my considerable experience in observing these matters. The OP's dog, when she gets it, will be fine. And if it's not, I expect she will recognize that and take it to the dog park more often, since she mentioned they will always be there and spending tons of time with it.


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#41 of 44 Old 04-15-2011, 04:00 PM
 
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OP, I'm going to second what Green Magick said and recommend a standard poodle.  

Ours is almost 2 years old now, back before we got her, I think I could have written your post!

We too, live in the city. in a small house with a standard city sized garden.

 

I can't say I loved the puppy stage but it was no worse than normal and she is turning into a fabulous dog:)

She is very smart and very active but we keep her busy with lots of walks, hikes, trips to the park (either chasing a ball or playing with other dogs), puzzle bowls and balls for feeding, appropriate chew toys yada yada yada!  

She is definitely not groomed in the typical frou frou poodle style.  Her coat is medium length, the same all over.  No pom poms!!!  

My 3 kids love her, and I have absolutely no worries about her responses to them.

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#42 of 44 Old 04-15-2011, 07:08 PM
 
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I think you'd like a Boston Terrier. They're a little smaller than you want, but they're hearty, very well-behaved, great in apartments and cities, have an excellent tempermant, and they are the most loving little dogs I've ever seen. I didn't ever want one, but when I met my husband he had one and this dog is amazing. I adore him and his cute little face. We snuggle all the time.

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#43 of 44 Old 04-25-2011, 08:35 AM
 
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Okay just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here as I'm a bit of a dog freak and love dog breeds! I don't think anyone's suggested this breed yet- what about a Basset Hound? They're not quite as big as you'd like but gosh are they couch potatoes!

 

Saint Bernards are also fairly low energy dogs but will enjoy a good run in the park! I think someone mentioned Bernese Mountain Dogs, which are also great low-ish energy dogs. The thing to keep in mind with these dogs though is that you're lucky to have one live to be 8 years old. They are very, very prone to getting cancer, unfortunately. This is a breed we were looking into as well, but we decided against it because I couldn't deal with the unpredictability of their lifespan and cancer is a nasty thing to go through with anything, including a dog.

 

I see lots of people mentioning terriers, labs, and goldens, but I would stay away from these dogs if you want a low energy one. They are not low energy! Unless you get a much, much older lab or golden you are going to be stuck with a crazy, hyperactive nut for a good 3 years. They need lots of exercise and have a really hard time calming down.

 

We're getting a Great Pyrenees next year- so excited! They're very calm dogs and wonderful with children, however I don't think they would be very well suited for apartment life as they like space to roam. It really depends on how big your apartment is.

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#44 of 44 Old 04-28-2011, 01:26 PM
 
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We have a Boxer and he's great. Super friendly, loves kids, very agile and fun to play with, and as long as he gets some excercise, he's pretty calm. Smart too. Short hair. Goofy grin. Love him!

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