My Mom's dog nips at DD - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 04-27-2011, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I hate to say it as it was worded rather tersely, but the above is very good information.  Teaching a child how to properly interact with the family dog (who may be way more tolerant that most others) is extremely important.  My dane is so tolerant of the kids, doesnt mind them bouncing all over her, taking things from her, etc.  However, I do not allow this.  Most dogs do NOT like this and I dont want my children being used to doing rude things to dogs.  I can explain that other dogs arent like this, or not to do this to other dogs, etc but if it becomes their default way of treating dogs, its going to be hard for them to get and there is a good possibility of them slipping up and getting hurt.  I would rather teach the correct way to interact with dogs at home so the few slip ups they have are with a safe dog than have them used to treating dogs like that and getting bit.

 

In dog language, taking something from another is very rude...and a bite is not an inappropriate response to that, in dog language.  There are definitely TONS of games your daughter can and should play with your dog....just not take aways and chase.  

the dog bringing a ball to my daughter, dropping it in her lap then standing there wagging her tail waiting would mean what exactly?? This is a game they play regularly and it is fine.

We have been very strict with DD from day 1, she is not so much as to even walk up to another dog without express permission from the owner or mommy and daddy. 

This is why I get frustrated when talking about pets, I DO teach my daughter how to interact appropriately with dogs, I allow that she is ok to do things with her own dog that she is NOT allowed to do with other dogs. I haven't run into her being confused yet, but maybe she is smarter than the average toddler about animals, I don't know. 

 

One of my biggest pet peeves is parents who do don't teach their children how to behave with dogs out and about in the world. I cannot stand it when kids aren't taught these very important manners and safety. DD knows and understands that strange dogs are NOT her Billie and do not get treated the way Billie gets treated. I also NEVER leave DD alone with a dog that isn't ours. 

 

I do teach the CORRECT way for her to interact with dogs, the presumption is pretty freaking annoying here and the holier than thou attitudes about dogs can go somewhere else, I'm not interested in hearing people talk as if they know how or what I teach my daughter about animals thanks.

 

Take away and chase is initiated by the DOG and I supervise it, if you people have a problem with it don't do it with your own dogs but mind your own business thanks. Like I said, DD is smart enough to understand she cannot behave the same with other dogs as she does her own.
 

 

ETA:

This is a thread about my mother's dog and issues with that, if you don't have advice regarding that topic why are you posting anyway? Just because you feel you know better than others? I'm not interested in that kind of attitude, I don't tell other mamas what to do with their own dogs and I expect that much respect from others, frustratingly enough on MDC it just isn't happening with this particular topic. You don't know my life, my DD's life or our dog's.

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Old 04-27-2011, 08:54 AM
 
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Personally, I think you should be honest with her about it and how you didn't want to hurt her feelings or upset her, but you can't risk the safety of your dd. I know its going too be hard and I'm sorry you're in this position. And how often does she expect you to visit? I know I can't afford to drive that far, nor would my sanity allow it every month winky.gif You are a better person than me! I wouldn't be so nice.


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Old 04-27-2011, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Personally, I think you should be honest with her about it and how you didn't want to hurt her feelings or upset her, but you can't risk the safety of your dd. I know its going too be hard and I'm sorry you're in this position. And how often does she expect you to visit? I know I can't afford to drive that far, nor would my sanity allow it every month winky.gif You are a better person than me! I wouldn't be so nice.



Ha once every month! I wish, during the winter I was driving up there EVERY OTHER WEEKEND...It was awful. I hate driving that distance and DD isn't a huge fan..

 

I haven't talked to my mom yet but I am going next weekend, I keep putting it off because I am dreading the conversation and haven't gotten the courage up to talk to her yet...

 

I was thinking of writing an email explaining that way I could lay it out without feeling like I have explain myself but then I figured why bother with an email, she will just call right away to talk about it and make me repeat myself word for word basically..Sigh, time to grow up and just do it..

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Old 04-27-2011, 09:36 AM
 
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If thats the case, fine.  But you mentioned that you werent sure about feeding raw bones because your daughter takes the toys and gets the dog to chase her. Your quote was "She is always grabbing toys from the dog"

 

That is a totally different picture than the dog bringing your daughter the ball, is it not?  No one is telling you what you HAVE to do....just responding to what you said with concern.  Not quite sure why you are so defensive.

 

And I did not say that children cant be taught treat their dog one way and all others a different way...I jsut think it CAN be confusing and if the child is very used to treating their dog a certain way there is a much higher chance of them forgetting as that is what they are used to.  And again, I never let my kids TAKE toys from any dog just because it is a rude behavior regardless of whether or not the dog allows it.  THe dog playing with the child and bringing the toys to them is a totally different situation.


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Old 04-27-2011, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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If thats the case, fine.  But you mentioned that you werent sure about feeding raw bones because your daughter takes the toys and gets the dog to chase her. Your quote was "She is always grabbing toys from the dog"

 

That is a totally different picture than the dog bringing your daughter the ball, is it not?  No one is telling you what you HAVE to do....just responding to what you said with concern.  Not quite sure why you are so defensive.

 

And I did not say that children cant be taught treat their dog one way and all others a different way...I jsut think it CAN be confusing and if the child is very used to treating their dog a certain way there is a much higher chance of them forgetting as that is what they are used to.  And again, I never let my kids TAKE toys from any dog just because it is a rude behavior regardless of whether or not the dog allows it.  THe dog playing with the child and bringing the toys to them is a totally different situation.

Yes DD does grab toys and yes the dog brings her toys. 

I grab toys as well from my dog. I don't think it is rude. I expect my dog to have no reaction, and she doesn't react. Sometimes things NEED to be taken away from a dog and regardless of whether it is play or a more serious reason a dog in my house is NOT going to react to having that thing taken away, period. That is a part of training, or in our dog's case just the way she is. 

She is non reactive to the point of allowing our female cat to sit at the bowl at mealtime, and eat first and then while the dog is eating stick her paws in and shovel food out for herself. 

 

I am defensive because frankly I am sick of being told I am doing the wrong things with my dog. It is pretty damn presumptuous for people to make the assertions that what I am doing is "dangerous" or "wrong"...Unless you are with me, DD and the dog you quite frankly are talking out your arse. Perhaps you can't be comfortable with your own dog in that way, that is your business I don't proceed to tell you what I THINK you are doing wrong. Yet it is perfectly acceptable for people to make these statements the other way around. 

 

I am very experienced with many breeds of dogs, many dogs of many different tempers. Obviously I am VERY aware of safety considering this whole thread is devoted to safety issues with my mother's dog. I know what I am doing and if I felt the risk of DD behaving in the manner she does with our own dog was high enough to warrant a change in the situation I wouldn't hesitate to make that change. 

Despite trusting my dog with DD I am ever vigilant for the first sign that she is tiring of DD. DH and I were just talking about this yesterday, we both watch the dog closely with DD because at times it is just unbelievable how good she really is. We got her from a shelter at 9 months. The deciding factor in getting her was her lack of response when DD started screaming hysterically because she was tired. I knew she was a special girl I just had no idea she would turn out to be as fabulous as she is. I truly haven't ever had a dog like her, and this is with a lifetime of owning multiple (up to 4 large breed) dogs at a time.

 

I appreciate people are concerned but when I point out the above over and over again and still have to deal with the comments about safety etc...Yeah I get a little pissed.
 

 

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Old 04-27-2011, 09:54 AM
 
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Again, do what you want...its your dog and child.  If it is working for you, so be it.

 

I try and respond generally as many people read public forums.  In dog world, there is a law of possession.  If the dog currently has it, it is theirs.  Grabbing is most definitely considered rude.  It is not a behavior another polite dog would engage in unless in play and all the proper signals given first.  

 

Of course living with humans dogs need to learn drop it or leave it...and that is a cue that is extremely important.  So, yes, I CAN grab anything out of my dogs mouths...but I dont.  I request that they drop and they do.  If it was poison or something, sure, I would probably just grab, but that would be a very rare, and hopefully never, occurence. 


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Old 04-27-2011, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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edited for politeness.thumb.gif

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Old 04-27-2011, 10:36 AM
 
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I apologize for coming across that way....that was not at all my intention.  

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The overall superiority of your  posts is just so grating.."so be it"...Yes it is how things are in our house. You clearly are an "expert" if you have anything valid to offer about the original post by all means please share otherwise I don't see why (except to feel superior) you keep pointing out what I am doing wrong with my dog. Do something more productive with your time, we are all set over here at my house with the tips from the person who fancies themselves an online dog behaviorist. 

 



 


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Old 04-27-2011, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I apologize for coming across that way....that was not at all my intention.  



 



I'm sorry for getting annoyed...Sigh I am getting annoyed a lot online...a sign I need to be spending more time off the computer.

This is a sensitive issue for me as you may have noticed! 

I appreciate that as someone just reading something online you can go, "oh that might not be the best idea.." I get that.

I feel like I having been having this debate a lot lately and it is getting to me. As a responsible owner I know and understand that dogs are far from humans (as much as people dress them up) and even the best dog can "snap", or even just have a bad grumpy day or be less friendly when older. My point is that I AM aware of all these things, hence I take a very proactive stance in monitoring my dog's behavior with DD, always looking for some sign that things have crossed over from mutual enjoyment to annoyance on the dog's part. 

 

Maybe this is just my love for my puppy but our dog is unique out of all those that I have owned in that she has a nature unlike my other dog's or even friend's dog's. She is a big strong alpha amongst other dogs, however even to my DD she is completely submissive. Without training, this is just how she is. She is not food aggressive at all. I mean ZERO. She will let everyone in the house eat out of her dish while she watches even if she is super hungry. She is NOT possessive over toys at all. She loves DD, she runs to her the minute she hears a cry, she gets there before I do half the time. She is protective of DD and does not like strangers approaching DD when she is around. 

 

She is unique to me in that she adjusts her behavior for DD. What I mean is that she can and does play rough with my DH (it drives me crazy). She runs around a lot and knocks stuff over. She jumps (terrible habit we are working) on most adults she comes across including DH and I...She does none of this with DD. She moves carefully, she rarely knocks her over unless she straight up doesn't see DD behind. She has NEVER come close to jumping on DD (although DD is short enough to not warrant much jumping). She is gentle with DD, with toys she grabs them slowly and gently, with DH and I she tends to be more rough with her mouth.

 

All of these behaviors were not trained into her by us. She just "is" this way. I feel very fortunate that we found such a wonderful member of our family.

I can appreciate that someone might say, "oh no! Don't let your DD do that or be alone with the dog etc..." It is just concern on that person's part. I am aware of all the risks and at this point (things can always change, I know and appreciate that very important fact) I am comfortable with how DD interacts with the dog and even with letting them be alone together...

 

Phew, ok sorry for the novel.

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Old 04-28-2011, 04:50 AM
 
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I am sorry....I didn't elaborate....I was on my way to work....as a vet tech

 

This can be a serious issue.  Honestly.  I have seen it.  A child should be taught to never take a dog's toys/food etc.  It is asking for trouble.  Even a beloved, trusted family dog can get annoyed with this.  I have seent it happen...i have seen pets put down because for "some reason" they turned on the child in the family...and with probing we discover that oh the child "always" plays keep away and chase, and loves to take his toy and never before has the dog cared...there comes a point where the dog may care and get annoyed.  I know I get get annoyed when someone keeps taking my stuff...I may not say something at first but if it happens enough time I may snap. 

I am familiar with this topic....I think 16 years in the field has given me some insight to dogs in general....sure not your dog in specific....but dogs in general. thumb.gif
 

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I don't need that kind of advice thanks, if you have something useful to add thank you, otherwise I will continue to monitor the way my daughter interacts with MY dog and decide my comfort level for each situation. 
I appreciate the advice about a topic you aren't really familiar with, my dog and my daughter. 

I have experience with dogs to know what I am and am not comfortable with.

 



 


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Old 04-28-2011, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I am sorry....I didn't elaborate....I was on my way to work....as a vet tech

 

This can be a serious issue.  Honestly.  I have seen it.  A child should be taught to never take a dog's toys/food etc.  It is asking for trouble.  Even a beloved, trusted family dog can get annoyed with this.  I have seent it happen...i have seen pets put down because for "some reason" they turned on the child in the family...and with probing we discover that oh the child "always" plays keep away and chase, and loves to take his toy and never before has the dog cared...there comes a point where the dog may care and get annoyed.  I know I get get annoyed when someone keeps taking my stuff...I may not say something at first but if it happens enough time I may snap. 

I am familiar with this topic....I think 16 years in the field has given me some insight to dogs in general....sure not your dog in specific....but dogs in general. thumb.gif
 



 

You basically proved my point, those people think that the dog snapped at the kid "for some reason" which essentially proves that they don't know what they were doing with the dog, weren't paying close attention and have little knowledge of dog behavior. I am not one of those people

 

I appreciate your experience as a vet tech. I have literally been involved with dogs my entire life. My father was a breeder (not a great one) my aunt who I used to work for in her kennels is a highly respected breeder still, it blows my mind she can command over 2 grand for one of her lab puppies at this point, they have super soft mouths and the hunters love that. I have volunteered at animal shelters since I was 16 (thanks to a family member working in one I was allowed to be there younger than they usually allowwinky.gif)...I consider myself equally as experienced and I appreciate that you know what you are talking about.

 

The way my daughter interacts with my dog is something I watch closely and monitor I am comfortable with what I see. My dog lives in a house where she needs to be ok with having things taken from her without asking her permission first. This may be rude but it is a fact of life. If another toddler came over and grabbed something from her I expect her to behave the same way. She doesn't have the luxury of assuming all humans she interacts with will play out the proper social cues in order to retrieve a toy from her. That is the bottom line in my house. I expect certain behavior from my dog and she exhibits. I will never EVER fault my dog for getting annoyed, it is my job to read/see the cues of that annoyance before something bad happens. I do my job, I am ever vigilant. I trust my dog immensely but I have ZERO illusions about the fact that she is a dog that can loose her patience. 

 

I appreciate your continued concern but if you keep insisting I am doing imminent danger to my dog and my daughter I'd just prefer you to stop posting although of course I can't control your actions. My only hope is that you really read what I have written and appreciate that I TOO know what I am talking about.
 

 

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:08 PM
 
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And your dd knows 100% that she can't play with other dogs the same way. And you are prepared to supervise their interactions to watch for your dog getting annoyed until your dd is old enough that you'd be okay with her getting bitten if she misses the dog's cues. Sounds like it'd work.

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Old 04-28-2011, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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And your dd knows 100% that she can't play with other dogs the same way. And you are prepared to supervise their interactions to watch for your dog getting annoyed until your dd is old enough that you'd be okay with her getting bitten if she misses the dog's cues. Sounds like it'd work.



she knows alright. She isn't allowed to so much as TOUCH another dog without our express permission which we of course wait to have from the owner. 

This was actually seriously tested when we took doggie to a rabies clinic (10 bucks a pop is a million times better than the cost of a vet visit for us!) and DD was amazing. We had to wait in a line surrounded by other dogs for over a half an hour and DD wanted to stand a lot even though I tried to hold her. I told her to not touch any other dog at all and she only needed a couple reminders. She never even reached her hand out to touch one. She wanted to, bad a couple of times but she listened to me and that was impressive to me for her age, she is almost 2...

 

As far as supervising their interactions yup to that too. As I said before I am very aware of any animals ability to shift from happiness to annoyance. DH thinks I watch them almost too closely. It might look like I am watching closely if they are playing on the floor together but I always have a close eye on them. It is just second nature. I appreciate the possible danger in any interaction with any dog and I would never forgive myself if our dog got annoyed to the point where she bit DD and I failed to see the signs of annoyance before it reached that point...

Phew, sorry for the mouthful!... I will add that it is a major pet peeve of mine when other children come up to my dog, even though she is very friendly with children, and just reach out a hand. That says a lot about the what the parents of those kids are not teaching them about dogs. I hate it and DH is on the same page with me that we absolutely expect DD to NEVER touch another dog without our permission...obviously when she is older she can ask to pet a dog herself but she MUST always ask, it's not even a question, I hope it is drilled into her head like a reflex as she gets older.

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Old 04-28-2011, 02:03 PM
 
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I am with the posters who say to keep the dog and your child apart.  It is easy to give advice that you don't have to take, but this is advice I had to follow.  MIL's dog was known to be extremely aggressive to other dogs and even people, including MIL (she was injured repeatedly, but tried to hide it so we wouldn't be scared off--she even lied about the fact that the dog bit another one of her grandchildren).  Even so, she was very offended by my request to crate the dog when we visited.  We insisted.  She eventually had to have the dog put down.  Offer to meet your mom in a neutral location or insisted that she be crated every time, all the time, period.  The risk to your child is real and present already.  Don't let it go further.


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Old 04-29-2011, 10:29 AM
 
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 I lock my dogs up in an area via baby gates. In your case I would want a door between the dog and child. If my mom would not lock up the dog then SHE would have to visit me without the dog. If she had a fit well to bad.

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Old 04-29-2011, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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 I lock my dogs up in an area via baby gates. In your case I would want a door between the dog and child. If my mom would not lock up the dog then SHE would have to visit me without the dog. If she had a fit well to bad.



yeah the one time this dog was separated by a baby gate she did a vertical jump over it about 5-6 feet into the air. It was amazing and infuriating. 

Then we tried putting the gate up a little higher and she literally just busted through it. A baby gate will never stop a big determined dog...

 

Oh that incident had nothing to do with DD, it was so a guest in the house wouldn't be uncomfortable because the damn dog was barking at her the whole time and the girl was afraid of dogs...I don't blame her in that instance.

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Old 05-17-2011, 10:04 PM
 
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OP, I'm a little late in the game and only have a minute before heading off to bead but something came to mind while reading about your situation.

Would you mom visit their vet with you and allow you all to discuss the concerns you have? I'd imagine they wouldn't mind too much especially if you were willing to pay for the visit?

I hope things go well.

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Old 05-18-2011, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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OP, I'm a little late in the game and only have a minute before heading off to bead but something came to mind while reading about your situation.

Would you mom visit their vet with you and allow you all to discuss the concerns you have? I'd imagine they wouldn't mind too much especially if you were willing to pay for the visit?

I hope things go well.



Hmm this is a very good idea. I am interested to speak to a professional in dog health at least and see what they have to say about my concerns. I also think it might be easier for my mom to accept what I am saying if her vet echoed some of the same concerns...Unless of course the vet didn't agree with me but seriously what vet wouldn't pick up on the red flags I have mentioned here if I was talking about them?? Ugh, personally I think so much of it goes back to her getting this dog at 5 weeks...Absolutely unacceptable and then on top of that not socializing it really really well has only led to problems..

 

It's funny when I brought my dog with me on a visit once my mom INSISTED I bring a muzzle for my dog who had scared their dog the last time...Turns out my dog behaved perfectly well and her dog was the one causing problems all weekend. It was very stressful on everyone because their dog would snap at our dog the whole time...They would play alright but then my dog would walk past the toy bin or sit on the dog bed and their dog would get super possessive, I won't fault a dog for getting possessive around another dog but all weekend I had to hear about my "bad" dog stressing out their Miss Precious Perfect...

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Old 05-20-2011, 08:07 AM
 
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I have a suggestion for you, based on my own mother and her relationship with her dog.  If it isn't too late, when you talk to your mom, I would leave any judgments about the dog out of the conversation.  I wouldn't suggest a diagnosis, I wouldn't go to the vet, I definitely wouldn't mention that she isn't socialized and left her mother too soon.  That approach will immediately put her on the defensive.  She'll feel like you're attacking her dog, and her.   I'd just  say very simply that you are concerned about dd's safety, and though you want very much to visit her and spend time with her, you can't be around the dog.  

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Old 05-20-2011, 11:13 AM
 
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I had this issue with my parents when DD was little. I simply held firm to my statements that they needed to be kept crated/away from DD at all times.  If that didn't happen, I picked her up and went to another room.  If that wasn't respected we didn't visit.  It was pretty straightforward.  It took about a year before they figured out that I wasn't going to just go along with them, but they did get it eventually.  

 

They even reached a point where they verbalized that I had been right and they apologized.  Those dogs died of old age over the past few years and they have two new dogs who are fabulous, they've been socialized with the kids and are really good.  My parents are also better at reading the dog's signs (one of them will eventually be overwhelmed by two toddlers) and sending him off to the bedroom to be alone. 

 

I think you have every right to say you aren't able to visit if they are unwilling to keep the dog away from your daughter.  Of course, I would also say I was unwilling to visit at that distance more than a couple times a year- that's just insane when they can travel without having to make your daughter ride in the car for so long. 

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Dog Adoption Your New Best Friend , All Dogs Have Adhd , Successfully Adopting A Dog
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