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#1 of 33 Old 09-16-2011, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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  So what are your opinions of dog vaccines? (thoughts on other dog meds also) I asked this in a couple of other online groups but they are really mainstream 'do whatever the vet tells you & don't question it' types so I didn't get any info or real opinions.

 

 Good, bad, or neutral opinions welcome! Any research or info to back up your opinion? If you only do some why those specific ones?

 

 Also is there a good site to find info on what the actual diseases / illnesses are & how serious they are?

 

 I know several people that have seen dramatic personality / temperament changes with vaccinating thier dogs. Also people whose dogs have gotten the illness from the vaccines, much like people vaxes can cause. Personally my son's previous companion dog got parvo EVERY time she had the any parvo vaccine or booster. Seriously aggravating!

 

 I did extensive research into human vaccines before making an educated decision for our family. Up until now we have adopted from the shelter so dogs came pre-vaxed & 'fixed'. With the new pup we adopted from a local family and he has had nothing so far. We are researching heart worm medication options & plan on neutering when he is old enough.

 

  The pup is a 'Pomchi'. He is about 12 weeks now and 2.3 pounds. He belongs to my 8 year old son and is being trained as an anxiety therapy companion for him. This means that the dog will be accompanying us on camping trips, car rides daily, and going into stores or locations such as our church that are accepting of therapy animals. We don't normally go to dog parks or take our animals into the pet store. We live in Alaska so certain considerations are not big issues in this area.

 

 

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#2 of 33 Old 09-16-2011, 05:22 PM
 
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OK....coming from the veterinary field....I have seen waaaay too many pups fall ill/die from parvovirus...totally preventable with vaccines. We do a combo vaccs of DHPP (distemper/hepatits/parinfluenza/parvovirus) optional bordetalla (for those who board/use dog parks), 3 year Rabies (after 2 consecutive years), optional Lepto (depending on exposure risks). As pups we do booster of dhpp at 8/12/16weeks (before 8wks it is not needed because of maternal antibodies) at 16wks we also do rabies.

In 15 + years I have seen 1 maybe 2 serious reactions and handful a year of mild reactions.  For those we know that have had a reaction in past we give benadryl to before the vaccine.

By law rabies is required here and many places.

http://indoorpet.osu.edu/  We use this site frequently for client information...feel free to check out our hospital too www.cabbagetownpetclinic.com we have lots of useful information there too!


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#3 of 33 Old 09-16-2011, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the answer!  I will check out the sites after my kids are in bed.
 

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OK....coming from the veterinary field....I have seen waaaay too many pups fall ill/die from parvovirus...totally preventable with vaccines. We do a combo vaccs of DHPP (distemper/hepatits/parinfluenza/parvovirus) optional bordetalla (for those who board/use dog parks), 3 year Rabies (after 2 consecutive years), optional Lepto (depending on exposure risks). As pups we do booster of dhpp at 8/12/16weeks (before 8wks it is not needed because of maternal antibodies) at 16wks we also do rabies.

In 15 + years I have seen 1 maybe 2 serious reactions and handful a year of mild reactions.  For those we know that have had a reaction in past we give benadryl to before the vaccine.

By law rabies is required here and many places.

http://indoorpet.osu.edu/  We use this site frequently for client information...feel free to check out our hospital too www.cabbagetownpetclinic.com we have lots of useful information there too!



 

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#4 of 33 Old 09-16-2011, 10:56 PM
 
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agree with lonegirl, vaccines are very important, I follow dr. dodds vaccine protocol as studies have shown that they do not need yearly vaccines after one year, assuming they had all of their boosters. Usually every three years.


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#5 of 33 Old 09-16-2011, 11:20 PM
 
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I always went with the recommended vaccines for our area. Our last dog had autoimmune issues, and the vet recommended spacing out vaccines as far as possible. We always did parvo, and did a 3 year rabies instead of 1 year. Other vaccines were skipped per the vet's recommendation to prevent a reaction. However, if I were showing the dog, frequenting parks, etc. I wouldn't have skipped those vaccines.

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#6 of 33 Old 09-16-2011, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We would not be frequenting any places with large amounts of dogs. We don't go to dog parks or take the animals into pet supply stores. Basically the child will carry the tiny dog around for comfort and companionship, into people places when allowed.
 

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I always went with the recommended vaccines for our area. Our last dog had autoimmune issues, and the vet recommended spacing out vaccines as far as possible. We always did parvo, and did a 3 year rabies instead of 1 year. Other vaccines were skipped per the vet's recommendation to prevent a reaction. However, if I were showing the dog, frequenting parks, etc. I wouldn't have skipped those vaccines.


 

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#7 of 33 Old 09-17-2011, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I looked up Dr Dodd's protocol & we may use that as a guide.

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agree with lonegirl, vaccines are very important, I follow dr. dodds vaccine protocol as studies have shown that they do not need yearly vaccines after one year, assuming they had all of their boosters. Usually every three years.



 

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#8 of 33 Old 09-17-2011, 01:27 PM
 
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keep in mind that some illnesses (like parvo) can be brought in on your shoes, and even if you place the dog in grass that isnt in your yard, completely fenced in and lacking any animals coming and going (squirrels, mice, raccoons etc) that it can still be caught.

 

What kind are you getting?


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#9 of 33 Old 09-17-2011, 03:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by starrlamia View Post

keep in mind that some illnesses (like parvo) can be brought in on your shoes, and even if you place the dog in grass that isnt in your yard, completely fenced in and lacking any animals coming and going (squirrels, mice, raccoons etc) that it can still be caught.

 

What kind are you getting?


That is definitely true. Doesn't Parvo hang around longer than most viruses would? I believe it survives much longer without a host than others. Unless you are breeding, most animal owners don't practice strict bio-security. Heck, I know that I don't. We do change our clothes immediately when we get home if we've been around chickens/rabbits if we don't know their vaccination/health status, though. Not wearing your shoes in the house can help, too. Your vet or local ag extension can tell you which diseases are prevalent in your area. Another thing to consider is heart worm. In our area it is regularly 55* during the day in the colder months, so we never get a break from the fleas or heart worm.

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#10 of 33 Old 09-17-2011, 05:08 PM
 
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yah, you need to super clean your house and yard after a parvo incident, there is special cleaning fluid to use. I dont practice strict bio-security either, but both my dogs are adults, when we had a small pup we were extremely careful with him.
 

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That is definitely true. Doesn't Parvo hang around longer than most viruses would? I believe it survives much longer without a host than others. Unless you are breeding, most animal owners don't practice strict bio-security. Heck, I know that I don't. We do change our clothes immediately when we get home if we've been around chickens/rabbits if we don't know their vaccination/health status, though. Not wearing your shoes in the house can help, too. Your vet or local ag extension can tell you which diseases are prevalent in your area. Another thing to consider is heart worm. In our area it is regularly 55* during the day in the colder months, so we never get a break from the fleas or heart worm.

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#11 of 33 Old 09-17-2011, 11:38 PM
 
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I totally agree that parvo is VERY scary and definitely something to vaccinate for.  I do dhpp at 8/12/16 weeks and rabies at 22 weeks (not required by law here until 6 months so I push it as close as possible since it can be a highly reactive vaccine).  After that I titer test for parvo/distemper every 3 years and re-booster if necessary, and then vaccinate for rabies as required by law (one year after initial vaccine then every three years).  

 

Parvo can survive in a house for up to 30 days and in the ground for up to a year despite freezing or extremely hot weather.  To kill parvo you just need bleach, but at a higher than normal concentration from what is normally recommended for cleaning.

 

I do not bother with bordetella, my experience is that it is a mostly useless vaccine and while not common it is possible to for it to cause whooping cough in a human.  I'm due any day now and having a live vaccine that is a form of whooping cough given to my animals is not something I'm comfortable doing.  I've also rarely seen it work.  The vet I work for is the vet of choice for a local boarding facility.  The boarding facility requires all dogs to have had bordetella vaccine within 6 months, so every dog there is recently vaccinated, though they must have been vaccinated at least a week prior to boarding.  They have had multiple outbreaks anyway and the vaccine seems to do little to stop the illness since it has spread like wildfire through the kennel each time it has shown up (and we do test for it during each outbreak).    It is also only considered a mild disease except in very young and very old or health compromised dogs.  If for some reason I had to board my old girl I might consider it, but that would be the only time I'd even think about it.

 

Leptospirosis I haven't done though am considering it.  It is an extremely reactive vaccine and must be given at least yearly to be effective (some studies recommend every 6 months) but there have been a few lepto cases within an hour of this area.  So far I'm still leaning towards no, but that could change.

 

Lyme I won't do, again it's reactive and must be done yearly.  There is also a lot of conflicting studies on lyme disease in dogs.  It can absolutely cause serious illness, but there is also evidence that shows that many dogs are probably able to fight it off on their own.  I prefer checking often for ticks (takes a minimum of 48 hours and more likely 72 hours of a tick being attached for it to transmit lyme) and treating if symptoms present.

 

 


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#12 of 33 Old 09-18-2011, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all for your info!  It has given me a lot to research & consider.

 

One more question -- our Pup is already about 12 weeks -- for the DHPP should we just start the set of 3 now? Do it at 13, 17, 21 weeks since he is already this old?

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#13 of 33 Old 09-18-2011, 12:13 PM
 
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What we do at our hospital if a booster is missed is do DHPP at 12/13 weeks then in 3-4 weeks we boost DHHP and do rabies (and if doing bordetella) at that time.
 

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Thank you all for your info!  It has given me a lot to research & consider.

 

One more question -- our Pup is already about 12 weeks -- for the DHPP should we just start the set of 3 now? Do it at 13, 17, 21 weeks since he is already this old?



 


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#14 of 33 Old 09-19-2011, 03:44 PM
 
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I give all vaccinations up until they are 2.  Then I stop unless there is something in our area that we need to vaccinate against.  I have nothing against Vets, I think they're great I was just unlucky enough to go to the wrong one for the first few years.  When I found my newest Vet he pretty much told me that we really should only worry about what's in our immediate area.  Especially since we don't travel with them.  However if we do go somewhere we'll definitely vaccinate for what we might come up against. 

 

Our neighbors dog had Parvo, I felt bad for the dog but not for them.  They just didn't take her in to get any shots.  They also didn't keep the yard clean, or remove standing water and feces.  Obviously they brought it into their enviroment.  On top of that the dog had worms from ingesting fleas.  For things like that I don't even consider doing anything other than taking them into a Vet. 

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I am going to give the opposing view. Just as would never vaccinate my children, I would never vaccinate my dog. I also do not do use chemical wormers, or flea/tick meds. I have a beautiful 14 month old mastiff who is in perfect health. If you are interested in learning more about how to raise a puppy without vaxes or chemicals and on a species appropriate raw food diet, I would be more than happy to provide you with information and resources, but I won't foister them on you, its your dog, your choice and it sounds like you are planning on vaxing anyway.

 

As for parvo I have a very interesting article on the virus with information that I doubt you would would get from a vet and would be happy to PM you a copy. Parvo is a man made virus that emerged around 1978 and was likely the result of the distemper vax. The parvo vaccine is now likely the cause of the spread and mutation of the virus. Keeping your puppy away from the vet and vaccinations will go a long way to preventing parvo.

 

If you are going to vaccinate, please don't give the 5 in 1 puppy shot, give the individual vaxes spaced out.


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#16 of 33 Old 09-19-2011, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I would LOVE the info please!!!   The only vax I would normally do is the Rabies as there are no legal exemptions available & it is required here. But we hope to get this pup certified as an assistance animal eventually, which required all the recommended vaxes.  :-/
 

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I am going to give the opposing view. Just as would never vaccinate my children, I would never vaccinate my dog. I also do not do use chemical wormers, or flea/tick meds. I have a beautiful 14 month old mastiff who is in perfect health. If you are interested in learning more about how to raise a puppy without vaxes or chemicals and on a species appropriate raw food diet, I would be more than happy to provide you with information and resources, but I won't foister them on you, its your dog, your choice and it sounds like you are planning on vaxing anyway.

 

As for parvo I have a very interesting article on the virus with information that I doubt you would would get from a vet and would be happy to PM you a copy. Parvo is a man made virus that emerged around 1978 and was likely the result of the distemper vax. The parvo vaccine is now likely the cause of the spread and mutation of the virus. Keeping your puppy away from the vet and vaccinations will go a long way to preventing parvo.

 

If you are going to vaccinate, please don't give the 5 in 1 puppy shot, give the individual vaxes spaced out.



 

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#17 of 33 Old 09-19-2011, 07:55 PM
 
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actually parvo is a mutation of a similar viruse, as far as I know they are not 100% sure of which, but it could be from wild dogs, raccoons or even cats (they all have their own version of parvo), there is no solid science to show that it was a result of the distemper vax or has any relation to it.

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I thought parvo came from cats?  Theres a human form which is Fifths disease.  Almost any animal can get a strain of parvo.  The problem with vaccinations for animals is that they don't keep up with them like they do humans.  Parvo is constantly adapting. 

 

The best way to help your dog stay parvo free is by keeping them away from other dogs when they're puppies, introducing them to a clean enviroment and keeping all feces cleaned up.  I do vaccinate my puppies.  I don't like to but I don't want to be sorry.  I love my animals!  As they get older I stay away from vaccines, I've had my Beagle off all his meds and vaccines for quite a few years now.  He was supposed to die according to our old vet.  Once I changed his diet and took him off his meds, his lethargy went away.  And he's still alive.  This was also after two positive heartworm tests... and 4 negative.  The vet couldn't explain to me why a dog taking his heart worm regularly, kept from other dogs, (cause this beagle is a jerk) spends his afternoons sunbathing on the back porch in a clean backyard, with no standing water could get heartworm.  Well he didn't have it.  I had them test him regularly after that and they called me all sorts of things for not doing their heartworm treatments.  And they didn't apologise for their treatment after the 4 negative tests either.  AGAIN, he's still alive and he's doing pretty darn well!  I wish that I didn't have this experience with this vet since now I'm forever distrustful.

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Quote:
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actually parvo is a mutation of a similar viruse, as far as I know they are not 100% sure of which, but it could be from wild dogs, raccoons or even cats (they all have their own version of parvo), there is no solid science to show that it was a result of the distemper vax or has any relation to it.


Actually, canine parvovirus is very similar to the long known feline panleukopenia virus (FPV). Soon after its appearance, parvo was classified as a mutation of FPV – in fact, the first vaccines used against parvo were FPV vaccines. Prior to the parvovirus outbreak, the only widely-used vaccine for dogs was distemper. At some point, cats’ kidneys were used to develop the distemper vaccine and this was shipped around the world and injected into dogs. Another possibility is that cats that were vaccinated for FPV shed that vaccine through their feces – a very real risk with modified live vaccines. The feline parvovirus could have easily mutated into canine parvovirus. Regardless of how canine parvovirus originated, it is well accepted that it is a man-made disease and it is the result of vaccination, either for canine distemper or FPV. This much is obvious because the outbreaks were sudden and massive and they first surfaced in countries that regularly vaccinated dogs and cats, this is why it is unlikely it came from wild dogs or racoons.

 
 

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Originally Posted by Rik-E View Post

I would LOVE the info please!!!   The only vax I would normally do is the Rabies as there are no legal exemptions available & it is required here. But we hope to get this pup certified as an assistance animal eventually, which required all the recommended vaxes.  :-/
 



 


I will be happy to. I am in a rush this morning but I will get back to it later.

 


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from what i have read they are not 100% sure on where it originated, that is one theory but has not been substantiated (in fact i have seen studies stating it was not a feline mutation). They also have not concluded 100% whether it was "man made" that is a theory. In any case whether it was man made or not it kills thousands of dogs every year, and is a very serious condition that can cost thousands of dollars to treat.
 

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Actually, canine parvovirus is very similar to the long known feline panleukopenia virus (FPV). Soon after its appearance, parvo was classified as a mutation of FPV – in fact, the first vaccines used against parvo were FPV vaccines. Prior to the parvovirus outbreak, the only widely-used vaccine for dogs was distemper. At some point, cats’ kidneys were used to develop the distemper vaccine and this was shipped around the world and injected into dogs. Another possibility is that cats that were vaccinated for FPV shed that vaccine through their feces – a very real risk with modified live vaccines. The feline parvovirus could have easily mutated into canine parvovirus. Regardless of how canine parvovirus originated, it is well accepted that it is a man-made disease and it is the result of vaccination, either for canine distemper or FPV. This much is obvious because the outbreaks were sudden and massive and they first surfaced in countries that regularly vaccinated dogs and cats, this is why it is unlikely it came from wild dogs or racoons.

 
 


 

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from what i have read they are not 100% sure on where it originated, that is one theory but has not been substantiated (in fact i have seen studies stating it was not a feline mutation). They also have not concluded 100% whether it was "man made" that is a theory. In any case whether it was man made or not it kills thousands of dogs every year, and is a very serious condition that can cost thousands of dollars to treat.
 



 



Well, no pharmaceutical company is going to admit to creating canine parvovirus are they? Yes, it has killed thousands, probably more like hundreds of thousands of dogs. I guess the vaccine isn't so great, because the vaccine obviously doesn't work in many cases as vaccinated dogs do get parvo and they generally fair less well than unvaccinated dogs who get it. As most dogs get it after a visit to the vet, the vaccine likely sheds which is causing the great numbers of puppies getting sick. 

 

The Parvo Self Help Guide by Ambertechnology makers of Parvaid is worth downloading (free) for a less expensive and more efficacious treatment of parvo.


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#24 of 33 Old 09-20-2011, 02:29 PM
 
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http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23301.htm

 

In nearly 16 years in the field I have seen many cases of parvo virus.  Not one was a previously vaccinated dog.  All were unvaccinated and unprotected.  Parvo sucks!  The mortality rate is incredibly high.  The time that most pups go to the vet is also the time that they start socializing in the park....do not blame it on going to the vet. duh.gif

 

BTW pfizer has a guarantee that will cover $5000 worth of treatment if a pet vaccinated with one of their vaccines contract the disease immunized against.  I know that merial always will cover costs if a reaction occurs.
 

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Well, no pharmaceutical company is going to admit to creating canine parvovirus are they? Yes, it has killed thousands, probably more like hundreds of thousands of dogs. I guess the vaccine isn't so great, because the vaccine obviously doesn't work in many cases as vaccinated dogs do get parvo and they generally fair less well than unvaccinated dogs who get it. As most dogs get it after a visit to the vet, the vaccine likely sheds which is causing the great numbers of puppies getting sick. 

 

The Parvo Self Help Guide by Ambertechnology makers of Parvaid is worth downloading (free) for a less expensive and more efficacious treatment of parvo.



 


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#25 of 33 Old 09-20-2011, 03:28 PM
 
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http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23301.htm

 

In nearly 16 years in the field I have seen many cases of parvo virus.  Not one was a previously vaccinated dog.  All were unvaccinated and unprotected.  Parvo sucks!  The mortality rate is incredibly high.  The time that most pups go to the vet is also the time that they start socializing in the park....do not blame it on going to the vet. duh.gif

 

BTW pfizer has a guarantee that will cover $5000 worth of treatment if a pet vaccinated with one of their vaccines contract the disease immunized against.  I know that merial always will cover costs if a reaction occurs.
 



 


Who takes 8 week old puppies to the dog park? wild.gif  How many naturally reared dogs, that is, completely unvaccinated, never chemically wormed or given chemical flea and tick meds and fed a species appropriate raw food diet, do you get in your vet practice? Precious few, if any, I would think, you probably wouldn't accept them as patients.

 

I know of someone who is currently dealing with parvo, she had four pups ready to go to their homes, one went to the vet to get vaxed and they come down with parvo. Where do you think they got the parvo from? I would say it was from the puppy that went to the vet and was vaxed and shed the vaccine. No vet, no vaccine, no parvo. Parvo is an evil curse that should never had been wrought on the canine population.

 

How magnanimous of Merial. Do they make the distemper vax? I know someone who lost a recently vaxed puppy to distemper.

 

 

 


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"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

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#26 of 33 Old 09-20-2011, 08:44 PM
 
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the parvo could have come from anywhere, the person could have tracked it into their house on their shoes. Vets have quarintine units and strict policies on treating dogs with parvo, if a dog was likely to get it at the vets office it would be an accident and i highly doubt it would occur that often. It is very unlikely for your dog to get parvo if it has been fully vaccinated and has developed antibodies (im not talking about puppies). IMO if you live in an area with a high prevelance of parvo, and you are taking your dogs out and about it is probably safer to get your dog vaccinated, but to do titres afterward to avoid over vaccinations.

 

I would think most natural rearers are smart enough not to take their dog to a dog park but unfortunately the vast majority of dog owners are not as well versed in these kinds of things and have absolutely no idea how terrible dog parks are or even that they should be careful with a young pup to avoid parvo.

 

While I totally respect your view (and even agree with some of it), I really get tired of the conspiracy theories that float around when a lot of people dont actually know 100% what they are talking about, not that I am saying you dont, but it is a little far out there with little evidence to back it up (and people tend to make a lot of assumptions).

 

ETA i misread dont mind me i have pneumonia lol

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#27 of 33 Old 09-21-2011, 03:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post




Who takes 8 week old puppies to the dog park? wild.gif  How many naturally reared dogs, that is, completely unvaccinated, never chemically wormed or given chemical flea and tick meds and fed a species appropriate raw food diet, do you get in your vet practice? Precious few, if any, I would think, you probably wouldn't accept them as patients.

 

I know of someone who is currently dealing with parvo, she had four pups ready to go to their homes, one went to the vet to get vaxed and they come down with parvo. Where do you think they got the parvo from? I would say it was from the puppy that went to the vet and was vaxed and shed the vaccine. No vet, no vaccine, no parvo. Parvo is an evil curse that should never had been wrought on the canine population.

 

How magnanimous of Merial. Do they make the distemper vax? I know someone who lost a recently vaxed puppy to distemper.

 

 

 



Did the vet come to this conclusion?  Merial and Pfizer are two of the big vaccine companies.  It would depend on which one was used.  We recently had  a pup who had a vaccine reaction and one of our vets called both companies (as vaccs from each company were used and it was unknown exactly which caused the problem).  Both offered to cover up to $1000 in that case (it was a strong but non-life threatening reaction).

 

I also agree with Starlamia...parvo can be picked up from virtually anywhere and carried in as it is shed in feces and can be picked up from contaminated dishes, collars, bedding, etc.  Like someone with a cold...initially there are no/few symptoms but the dog is shedding the virus and unless the person walking the affected dog is out there soaking down the sidewalk with bleach the chances are high that it be spread.  Oh and 8-16weeks is when people start introducing puppy classes, taking them for walks (Even if only on the sidewalk-not everyone has a back yard)...so yes they do get interaction with other pups/dogs.

 

 


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#28 of 33 Old 09-21-2011, 08:07 AM
 
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I've heard of puppies getting parvo and being vaccinated. I imagine it's rare, but we went to a memorial for DD1's friends puppy. He's was 1, contacted parvo and passed away. It can happen.

Pharm companies are trying to corner the veterinarian market, right now it only makes up less than 10% of their profits. Not to say that anything and everything they do is for profit but start looking for new vaccines and ailments that they can cure with whatever they come up with.

Also never just take the word of someone because of their "status".
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#29 of 33 Old 09-21-2011, 11:57 AM
 
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Eh, I'm with Mirzam. I don't vax my kids or myself and I don't vax my pets anymore. My dogs are fed a prey model raw diet and haven't been vaxed by me. Their breeders did vax them as puppies, two of them only got the first puppy shot. They are 9 and 8 years and I also have a German Shepherd puppy that is coming up on a year old. I can't even remember the last time I had a dog licensed. I do use heartworm meds and will use flea meds though and wormers. My cats were rescues and had tapeworm I had no problem using wormers to get rid of them.

 

But then I also think that AKC championships for many breeds are highly over rated, especially for the breeds I favor. I don't care where working and hunting dogs place in the show ring when choosing a puppy. I also can't stand AKC show lines German Shepherds. 

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#30 of 33 Old 09-21-2011, 02:52 PM
 
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i dont care for conformation either, but titling a dog does help prove it is worth breeding and furthering the lines, hunting and working dogs prove themselves otherwise and is much better judgement of a dog then conformtion, I agree about show line GSDs I hate watching them try and run with their messed up rear ends :(
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post

Eh, I'm with Mirzam. I don't vax my kids or myself and I don't vax my pets anymore. My dogs are fed a prey model raw diet and haven't been vaxed by me. Their breeders did vax them as puppies, two of them only got the first puppy shot. They are 9 and 8 years and I also have a German Shepherd puppy that is coming up on a year old. I can't even remember the last time I had a dog licensed. I do use heartworm meds and will use flea meds though and wormers. My cats were rescues and had tapeworm I had no problem using wormers to get rid of them.

 

But then I also think that AKC championships for many breeds are highly over rated, especially for the breeds I favor. I don't care where working and hunting dogs place in the show ring when choosing a puppy. I also can't stand AKC show lines German Shepherds. 



 


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