Can we try a little understanding??? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 17 Old 11-30-2005, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Come on guys, threads are getting closed because of the backbiting. Who is helped by this--the pet? NO. The owner? NO. The cause? NO

Believe me, I understand the frustration involved in rescue work and in working with dogs and harder still, working with humans who choose to bring them into their family.

When did venting become such a bad thing?? Would a poster also be chastised if they posted that they had no idea how hard it was going to be to parent a 2 yr old??

Here's the facts:
Nobody knows until they are doing it how hard it will be (hell, I thought it would be SIMPLE running my home business with a child--I had no idea I'd NEVER be able to take my eyes off her!)
When you are post partum, different things bother you--things you never thought would--Dog hair on the floor drove me NUTS!! I mean so much so that I seriously considered taking a bic razor to both dogs and the cat. Sure, they also lost hair before the baby--it just didn't bother me then--and I had more time to clean it up!
Pets with a young baby are hard work--and you know what--nobody tells you that before hand--afterall, every perfect family has 2 kids and a golden retreiver! Ain't nothing perfect about Golden fur with a baby!!

Last but not least.....we're all allowed to have tough days!!! My God, if everyone was so perfect and never had a bad dog or bad kid day--how boring would life be??? (that and I'd be out of work!)

I guess, what I'm trying to express here is that we need to start treating our fellow pet owners with some compassion, some understanding--you know--treat them like your dog treats you. Especially from those of us who are professionals in the field, lets try to guide with a gentle approach--you'll train both dogs and humans quicker with some gentle praise and understanding than you will with a kick or a smack. Recently there have been 3 separate mama's who came to vent, or let off steam or express that it's harder than they thought or mention a problem that they didn't think was fixable, all three of them had their asses handed to them and their hands slapped for being bad pet owners--this is not going to encourage or help them do the right thing!! All three of the ones I'm speaking of, I chatted with privately and you know what--they're doing better, they needed some help and some understanding, but by being bashed, all they got was defensive.

So yeah, I understand how frustrating it is. I understand that knee jerk reaction to get mad, but before getting mad, why don't we try giving the benefit of the doubt--if after some questions and the offering of possible SOLUTIONS they're still saying things like--nope he's got to go, I saw some hair on the floor again this morning and I'm just not willing to live this way!! Then, get mad, after some gentle understanding has proven not to work. I have a feeling though that at least 8 out of 10 times, a little guidance will do far more to better the cause--which is happy homes for all pets.

So, can we try? Can we assume the best of people until they show us their worst? Can we all work together? Can we try a little tenderness? (I feel a song coming on...)
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#2 of 17 Old 11-30-2005, 04:44 PM
 
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Thanks for bringing awareness to this. Many people are hesitant to express concerns about their pet ownership issues because there are so many people who will accuse them of bad conscience. I think it is great they at leasts ask for support, so they can get some answers.
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#3 of 17 Old 11-30-2005, 06:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218
Come on guys, threads are getting closed because of the backbiting. Who is helped by this--the pet? NO. The owner? NO. The cause? NO

Believe me, I understand the frustration involved in rescue work and in working with dogs and harder still, working with humans who choose to bring them into their family.

When did venting become such a bad thing?? Would a poster also be chastised if they posted that they had no idea how hard it was going to be to parent a 2 yr old??

Here's the facts:
Nobody knows until they are doing it how hard it will be (hell, I thought it would be SIMPLE running my home business with a child--I had no idea I'd NEVER be able to take my eyes off her!)
When you are post partum, different things bother you--things you never thought would--Dog hair on the floor drove me NUTS!! I mean so much so that I seriously considered taking a bic razor to both dogs and the cat. Sure, they also lost hair before the baby--it just didn't bother me then--and I had more time to clean it up!
Pets with a young baby are hard work--and you know what--nobody tells you that before hand--afterall, every perfect family has 2 kids and a golden retreiver! Ain't nothing perfect about Golden fur with a baby!!

Last but not least.....we're all allowed to have tough days!!! My God, if everyone was so perfect and never had a bad dog or bad kid day--how boring would life be??? (that and I'd be out of work!)

I guess, what I'm trying to express here is that we need to start treating our fellow pet owners with some compassion, some understanding--you know--treat them like your dog treats you. Especially from those of us who are professionals in the field, lets try to guide with a gentle approach--you'll train both dogs and humans quicker with some gentle praise and understanding than you will with a kick or a smack. Recently there have been 3 separate mama's who came to vent, or let off steam or express that it's harder than they thought or mention a problem that they didn't think was fixable, all three of them had their asses handed to them and their hands slapped for being bad pet owners--this is not going to encourage or help them do the right thing!! All three of the ones I'm speaking of, I chatted with privately and you know what--they're doing better, they needed some help and some understanding, but by being bashed, all they got was defensive.

So yeah, I understand how frustrating it is. I understand that knee jerk reaction to get mad, but before getting mad, why don't we try giving the benefit of the doubt--if after some questions and the offering of possible SOLUTIONS they're still saying things like--nope he's got to go, I saw some hair on the floor again this morning and I'm just not willing to live this way!! Then, get mad, after some gentle understanding has proven not to work. I have a feeling though that at least 8 out of 10 times, a little guidance will do far more to better the cause--which is happy homes for all pets.

So, can we try? Can we assume the best of people until they show us their worst? Can we all work together? Can we try a little tenderness? (I feel a song coming on...)
:

Doula, Wife and mom to A (11/23/01) and O (5/7/09)
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#4 of 17 Old 11-30-2005, 11:16 PM
 
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Very nicely put, Shannon!
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#5 of 17 Old 12-01-2005, 01:06 AM
 
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Thank you so much for this. I know for me, I never wanted to get rid of my dogs, and actually said that. I was just frustrated. I had a stressful day with them (my Pry had diarhea 4 x that day....) and was really just thinking what did I get myself into. But it passed. After dc napped I felt so much better. I really appreciate those here who help and make things easier and offer solutions, or just a hug when stressed.

This thread really made me feel better, I was feeling so sensitive and upset lately when coming here. Thanks so much
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#6 of 17 Old 12-01-2005, 03:28 AM
 
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Shannon thank you for summing up what I have come here to say.

While there is no excuse for being rude or aggressive or adversarial in posting....there is another side I would like to talk about.

Those who do rescue work are often passionate driven people. Driven to right wrongs, to show compassion to helpless animals who have not seen it, driven to inspire a bit of trust in a scared hurt animal. It is amazingly satisfying to see a tail wag, an ear tilt, some eye contact from an animal that has been abused and neglected and has no reason to trust anyone. The love of that accomplishment is powerful.

I have also seen this passion overcome a person in an unbalanced way. I've seen people who are so frustrated and overwhelmed and burnt out that they snap at anyone who even speaks negatively about an animal. Rescue work is hard. A Google search on "animal shelter burnout" yields many search results: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...helter+burnout
I watched it happen to a friend of mine. Many many years of shelter and rescue work wore her down. She was unpleasant at best when the subject of pet ownership came up. She has had a career change to veterinary technology and is on the end of saving animals. It has brought her around to the loving tolerant person I used to know!

While the difficulty of the work may explain why we get some less than understanding posts from our animal rescuer members, it does not excuse it.

We are all here to learn and to grow and to share. Being polite about it is important. My job as a moderator is to assist members in abiding by the user agreement, which in a nutshell says "be polite". For the real wording: http://www.mothering.com/mdc/mdc_useragreement.html

If you cannot reply to a post in a polite manner, pass it by. If you still have a burning desire to post, maybe give yourself some time to think about your response and temper your words.

My closing comment: Dog is God spelled backwards. They are here to teach us unconditional love.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#7 of 17 Old 12-01-2005, 11:54 AM
 
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sorry, I can not condone the "tone" of talk that keeps being brought up towards animals that if someone mentioned that very language & phrases toward a child... they would be banned. I think it's very odd when people on an AP board come here & threaten(not vent) such things.

Also coming here looking for "hugs" to dump for a pet that is "just is shedding too much" all of a sudden is so NOT AP!
How is that OK?
I have not read a "help me with shedding post" but "I need to rehome" or "I hate this animal"... type of post. where's the "help" word?

It seems GD is OK when it's towards kids but "Parents as Partners" got closed for a while b/c of the same mean talk.
People said really mean things under the "guise" of "just venting" & it was wrong.

Venting & asking for help is one thing but when "hate & pets" are in the same sentence.... that's not good.
It like when some says something really mean & then they backpeddle by saying "Just Kidding" :

This blurs many lines around here.

I have NEVER talked in a manner about my pets.
& yes, they are much to handle at times but then again, I really rarely use such negativity towards my family on a web board.

Quote:
I guess, what I'm trying to express here is that we need to start treating our fellow pet owners with some compassion, some understanding--you know--treat them like your dog treats you.
then should not those pet owners treat their own animals with the same?

Puppyfluffer, if your comments are directed towards me, I wish it would have been private. I do not have burnout at if you all seem to want to talk around me but not to me - :

Quote:
I have also seen this passion overcome a person in an unbalanced way. I've seen people who are so frustrated and overwhelmed and burnt out that they snap at anyone who even speaks negatively about an animal.
:

um,,,,, who are you directing this towards?

I will not to be talked about without defending myself.

for me, I'm on a big break from Rescue so if some think that"s a problem.. think again. I have no burnout & been 2 yr break compared to what I used to do.

I think many do not really know what true Rescue is & the misconception here. When you see what REALLY goes on....... you'd be ill :

It's not the sterile little world you see @ your local no-kill shelter.

I, ALSO , have members PM'ing me thanking me & asking me for help so.... so it goes both ways.

treat your furfriends kindly for they love YOU unconditionally2

Me & DH hug2.gif , adult DD lips.gif & 7 yo DS guitar.gif . 2 GSDs, 6 rescue kitties, 4 birds & a gerbil.
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#8 of 17 Old 12-01-2005, 06:19 PM
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Polka, you and I had our own disagreement over your tone. So I understand how someone could be very upset by some of your posts.
But, I agree wholeheartedly with your intentions and your pov about animal ownership being for the lifetime of the animal. So I am happy to see your participation in this forum, even while I wince at your choice of words sometimes, kwim?
And you aren't the only person who could be accused of being rude, so I don't think you are being singled out, here.

Maybe it is all about the choice of words, rather than keeping quiet altogether? I would hope nobody here would be expected to keep quiet when somebody talks about "having to re-home" (which sometimes is a pc way of saying "get rid of") a pet for reasons that boil down to lack of commitment (not always the case, but has been seen here). Especially since this is an ap board (ita w/ Polka's points about that).
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#9 of 17 Old 12-01-2005, 08:25 PM
 
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I never address a specific member about their posting style on the forum. When I am intending my words to reflect on a specific member, I address them personally via Private Message. Nothing I said in my previous post was directed at any specific members here. It was meant as general information to everyone.

Polka, you asked who I was addressing with this:
Quote:
I have also seen this passion overcome a person in an unbalanced way. I've seen people who are so frustrated and overwhelmed and burnt out that they snap at anyone who even speaks negatively about an animal. Rescue work is hard. A Google search on "animal shelter burnout" yields many search results: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...shelter+burnout
I watched it happen to a friend of mine. Many many years of shelter and rescue work wore her down. She was unpleasant at best when the subject of pet ownership came up. She has had a career change to veterinary technology and is on the end of saving animals. It has brought her around to the loving tolerant person I used to know!
My description says that I have seen this happen with people which means that I personally have seen this happen with my own eyes with people I know. I went on to vaguely describe a situation that I was involved with with a personal friend.

I think it is appropriate for members to come here and vent when they need to. I have seen plenty of vent threads in Gentle Discipline about 3 year olds. I probably notice them greatly since I share my house with a 3 year old! I even remember a thread where members were invited to come yell at the thread instead of their kids. Sometimes there is humor in the vent, sometimes anger...but expressing your feellings of frustration else where is appropriate. Going over and kicking the dog because it chewed something up is not.

If a member were to come here to say that they "punished" their dog by hurting or neglecting it, or that they took it for a drive along a quiet country road and kicked it out.....not that is a totally different matter all together!!!

The bottom line is that members need to be respected and the words and tone used to communicate here need to abide by the user agreement.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#10 of 17 Old 12-01-2005, 11:03 PM
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Speaking of Gentle Discipline... that forum has some specific forum guidelines at the top with a sticky. Could we do that here? I have no problem with venting, I sure need to do that some days... but I would hope this forum would have an underlying philosophy that pets are worthy of respect and that owners have certain responsibilities to those pets, including responsibilities to prevent or treat their suffering and to consider pet ownership to be a serious commitment.

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#11 of 17 Old 12-01-2005, 11:06 PM
 
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Dar, that is a good idea. Would you members here like to contribute to crafting the wording? Tell me what is valuable about pet ownershhip, what ideals you'd like to see upheld in a "guideline" sticky!

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#12 of 17 Old 12-01-2005, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Excellent idea Dar!
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#13 of 17 Old 12-02-2005, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer
Dar, that is a good idea. Would you members here like to contribute to crafting the wording? Tell me what is valuable about pet ownershhip, what ideals you'd like to see upheld in a "guideline" sticky!
I would definitely hope this would be a community effort, with input from all of us... my ideas were basically the ones in my post, that pet owners should prevent and/or relieve any undue suffering, and that they should consider getting a pet to be a serious, potentially long-term commitment, one that may require a significant investment of time and money. Clearly a commitment to a goldfish will be different that a commitment to a dog, but I would hope that we would all agree that both require proper care to stay healthy and happy...

Dar, off to bed with my puppies

 
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#14 of 17 Old 12-02-2005, 02:18 AM
 
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This is a great thread. We used to be very active with animal rescue, and it was incredibly hard on our marriage in more ways than I can describe. We are still feeling the effects of it, because we still have four dogs and six cats left over from those days when the story of a pitiful dog was all it would take for me to max out my credit card and offer that dog a home.

But now, there are days that I hate having dogs and cats. I see their irritating side, even as I see the eyes full of love. I would like to be able to say that and know that people won't be upset with me for saying it. I feel like after these dogs are gone, I will go dog free for a few years, just to try to regain some balance. Huh, maybe I have rescuer burn out... I'll have to check those google hits.

Animal people need to be kind to each other.
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#15 of 17 Old 12-02-2005, 02:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I suffered burn out as a tech and it's the reason I stopped practicing. I went right from school to a referral practice, from there to a small animal ICU, all the while putting in nights here and there at a veterinary emergency clinic. I loved it. I still love it. But I couldn't keep doing it. For me it manifested that one night my own dogs were bugging at me, I remember thinking "Get away from me, you're not dying!" I took 3 days off and went in and resigned. It took a while for me to come back to where I felt I had a normal perspective on things again. I got involved with rescue but saw myself slipping down the same slope again. I found myself being aggresive (verbally) with people who were surrendering animals--but I was also being that way with prospective adopters too--I was attempting to tear their lives apart to ensure the animal had a good home--and if they weren't a home just like me--as in, dog goes with you everywhere, buy your vehicles with the dog in mind, $100 dog bed in the corner that fido doesn't sleep on cause he's in bed with you--they weren't good enough in my eyes.
I turned a lot of people off. It was a friend of mine who talked to me and said "I understand what you feel--but tearing a strip off someone isn't A) going to make them treat their animal any better and B) not all homes are perfect--but that's the beauty of pets, they see perfection in things that aren't perfect, so while *I* think you're not a good owner unless you take your dog everywhere, the dog is perfectly happy just with the owner coming home. Unless a home is abusive, it's still a home, which is a long shot better than sitting in a kennel until you're old enough to be deemed unadoptable. I learned the hard way. In the process I lost some friends, I probably cost some good dogs some decent homes, I probably made more than a few people think "those pet people are nuts" and then there's the thing that really hit me. None of *that* helped one damn pet. So, I let go of what I couldn't control and decided to take a stronger hold of what I could.
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#16 of 17 Old 12-02-2005, 11:15 AM
 
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I did see something also called "compassion fatigue." Shannon, I relate to your post.
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#17 of 17 Old 12-04-2005, 02:25 AM
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I think people really need to put a good warning in the title if the thread is about an animal's death or abuse or otherwise terrible situation, and it will be disturbing. I mean, seriously.... there are things sensitive souls like me should not have to read before trying to go to bed.
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